Why does everyone hate George Soros?

Sean Rameswaram: The first thing you need to know about George Soros is you're saying it wrong. You say like Soros. Soros, yeah. Is that how you really say it? Yeah. That's important. Is the whole world saying his name wrong? I'm afraid so. Really? Yeah. Well, let's start there.

[Discussion continues with no clear speaker identified]

Sean Rameswaram: The second thing you need to know is he's an investor who's got about as much money as God. He can move world financial markets simply by voicing an opinion or destabilize a government by buying and selling its currency. And the third thing is he might be one of the most hated people in the world. I think that I've been blamed for everything. I am basically there to make money.

Emily Tamkin: Remember on Tuesday when Roseanne got into all that trouble on Twitter? Some of her tweets were about George Soros. She called him a Nazi, even though he's a Holocaust survivor. And a Jewish one to boot. And Roseanne's just the tip of the iceberg. George Soros has haters in different area codes, from Washington to Warsaw. In Hungary, they're trying to pass a bill to basically ban George Soros.

Sean Rameswaram: So what did he do? So we're almost talking about two George Soros, right? We're talking about the man who comes from Hungary and made a lot of money and then gave it away. Emily Tampkin writes for foreign policy. And then we're also talking about this myth who is vilified by governments around the world. So let's start with the man.

Emily Tamkin: George Soros is this very famous Hungarian Jew. But before that, he was just a Hungarian Jew. So his family is in Hungary. They are able to sort of hide out as Christians during the war. They survive. He eventually makes it to the United Kingdom. He gets his education at LSE, the London School of Economics. At first, he has difficulty finding a job. And he says this is one of the worst periods of his life. And eventually this Hungarian managing director sees him and hires him and he starts working in the financial world. And is he already making enemies at this point? No, no, he's not. I mean, maybe he has like financial rivals. Yeah. But the enemies don't come until much later.

Sean Rameswaram: So he makes this money. He uses it already in the 70s and 80s to start doing philanthropic work in South Africa fighting apartheid. He set up his first open society in Europe in Hungary in 1984. What does that mean? The Open Society Foundation is his philanthropic group to give money to individuals and to organizations that he felt would create a more liberal, democratic, open and welcoming society.

Emily Tamkin: Obviously, after the dissolution of the Eastern Bloc, this really picks up, right? There's now much more that they can do. I had somebody say to me, I reported on this in Slovakia and Romania. and this woman in Romania goes to me, Soros is an iconic name. She was like in the 90s, in the same way that American might be like, well, I was on my full rate. They would be like when I was on my Soros grant. This is in all through Eastern Europe, right? So this is a Romanian woman who told me this. And she said, you know, I had more money that sent me to Scotland than I had ever had in my life before for like a little travel grant, you know? And she was like, and I met these people and I was exposed to ideas that I'd never been exposed to before.

Sean Rameswaram: The idea was to literally open up society and to not make it so that like, oh, you lost the Cold War, slip back into obscurity. That was not the idea, right? It was how can we create a liberal, welcoming, literally open society? And actually in the 90s, for the most part in Eastern Europe, which is the part of the world that he's still like associated with at this point in terms of his giving, with some exceptions, he was quite well liked. His reputation was not what it is today. Yeah. But I think in order to understand how it gets to be what it is today, you have to understand this man was everywhere. He gave people more money than he had before. He supported arts. He supported debating groups. He poured a lot of money into this part of the world at a time when arguably it really needed it, at a time when people's thoughts on democracy were shaping.

Emily Tamkin: But everybody knew who he was. And that's important to understand how we get to where we get to today. So George Soros has a ton of money. I guess that's the one thing everyone knows about him. I also know he's in like banking, investing, but how do you get to be so rich? I mean, the one thing I always hear is that he like broke the Bank of England. He doesn't become known as the man who broke the Bank of England until the early 90s. Is that a thing So Black Wednesday in England is the day that Soros broke the pound No it the day that he didn break the pound He and other investors made Britain pull out of Europe exchange rate mechanism OK. The most dramatic U-turn in government economic strategy for 25 years was forced on the prime minister and chancellor by the overwhelming pressure of billions upon billions of pounds being sold in the foreign exchange markets. The pound will now be left to find its own level in the markets, inevitably below the ERM floor, which the government was pledged to defend. Soros and other British investors sort of looked and said, oh, this is like we know which way the wind is going. And so they basically bet against the pound. The Bank of England lost billions and Soros gained about a billion. Wow. Right. Just himself. Yes.

Sean Rameswaram: So he's doing all this philanthropic work. He's promoting democracy. He's promoting student travel. How does someone who seems to be doing sort of benign, likable, philanthropic work first start to get controversial? When exactly does that happen? When do people start to hate George Soros?

Emily Tamkin: Okay, so he opened society. These countries join the EU in the aughts, early mid-2000s. And then open society says, okay, this is now the job of the European Union. We're going to start to pull back out of this region a little bit. Okay. It's actually only after he pulls out of the region a bit that this idea of Soros as the monster comes up. And the reason is that these countries are now in the EU. The EU is not delivering the sort of magic turnaround that had been promised to the people. And you have these populist leaders come to power or come back to power. So you have Orban in Hungary, you have Fica in Slovakia, you have Dragnea in Romania, you have law and justice in Poland, all of whom are sort of similarly moderately far right or moderately far left, and all of whom are far and away the most powerful actors in their country, right? So none of whom really want to build up a political rival at home, all of them can turn to Soros. He is Hungarian, which means that he's not liked in Romania or Slovakia. And in his native Hungary, where he could be painted as a traitor, even though back when he was even more involved there financially, he was quite popular. He is Jewish, which is just not a popular thing to be in that region. He's in finance, which plays to the Jewish stereotype. And also, if you were like a common person in, I don't know, like a village in Romania, right, is sort of a very easy thing to suspect. If you look at the protests against Central European University, right, which was the university that he founded, Soros founded, that is, in Budapest in the early 90s, they say that they're under attack from legislation from the Orban government. when people come out to protest, it's very easy for the Orban government to say, look, this is the liberal cosmopolitan elite and we are protecting you from that and their globalist influence. And it's an argument that works and that you can sort of apply to whichever country in the region. It's like choose your own anti-Soros adventure. Yeah, sure.

Sean Rameswaram: So at first you have, you know, we're dissatisfied. We start talking about Soros. But then especially in 2015, the migrant crisis begins. Soros funds NGOs that help migrants and asylum seekers. So it's sort of two birds, one stone, right? You can have your anti-migrant campaign, even though you're not letting any in. And also attack Soros and have this outside enemy and solidify your own political power.

Emily Tamkin: Just thinking about how Roseanne is tweeting about this guy, and he's also so important in Eastern European politics and such a controversial figure there. It feels like he can just be whatever boogeyman you want him to be. Yeah. So I think of him like in those Harry Potter books where the young witches and wizards like looked into that mirror. I see that you, like so many before you, have discovered the delights of the Mirror of Erised. I think it's called the Mirror of Erised. I trust by now you realize what it does. They see whatever it is that they most want or need. So then it shows us what we want, whatever we want. Yes. Soros is like that, but with, like, hate, you know? So, like, if you're in Romania, you don't like him because he's Hungarian. If you're in Hungary, you don't like him because he's Hungarian and he left Hungary and made his money elsewhere and he was coming back and influencing your country. If you in Israel you don't like him because he overly supportive of Palestinians If you are in the United States well he funding these democratic politicians Now, he's not actually a politician in any of these countries. He's not the one that you necessarily need to be going after to change policy. But he's very effective if you want to change politics.

Sean Rameswaram: George Soros has a ton of money. I guess that's the one thing everyone knows about him. I also know he's in like banking, investing, but how do you get to be so rich? I mean, the one thing I always hear is that he like broke the Bank of England. He doesn't become known as the man who broke the Bank of England until the early 90s. Is that a thing So Black Wednesday in England is the day that Soros broke the pound No it the day that he didn break the pound He and other investors made Britain pull out of Europe exchange rate mechanism OK. The most dramatic U-turn in government economic strategy for 25 years was forced on the prime minister and chancellor by the overwhelming pressure of billions upon billions of pounds being sold in the foreign exchange markets. The pound will now be left to find its own level in the markets, inevitably below the ERM floor, which the government was pledged to defend. Soros and other British investors sort of looked and said, oh, this is like we know which way the wind is going. And so they basically bet against the pound. The Bank of England lost billions and Soros gained about a billion. Wow. Right. Just himself. Yes.

Emily Tamkin: So he's doing all this philanthropic work. He's promoting democracy. He's promoting student travel. How does someone who seems to be doing sort of benign, likable, philanthropic work first start to get controversial? When exactly does that happen? When do people start to hate George Soros?

Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so he opened society. These countries join the EU in the aughts, early mid-2000s. And then open society says, okay, this is now the job of the European Union. We're going to start to pull back out of this region a little bit. Okay. It's actually only after he pulls out of the region a bit that this idea of Soros as the monster comes up. And the reason is that these countries are now in the EU. The EU is not delivering the sort of magic turnaround that had been promised to the people. And you have these populist leaders come to power or come back to power. So you have Orban in Hungary, you have Fica in Slovakia, you have Dragnea in Romania, you have law and justice in Poland, all of whom are sort of similarly moderately far right or moderately far left, and all of whom are far and away the most powerful actors in their country, right? So none of whom really want to build up a political rival at home, all of them can turn to Soros. He is Hungarian, which means that he's not liked in Romania or Slovakia. And in his native Hungary, where he could be painted as a traitor, even though back when he was even more involved there financially, he was quite popular. He is Jewish, which is just not a popular thing to be in that region. He's in finance, which plays to the Jewish stereotype. And also, if you were like a common person in, I don't know, like a village in Romania, right, is sort of a very easy thing to suspect. If you look at the protests against Central European University, right, which was the university that he founded, Soros founded, that is, in Budapest in the early 90s, they say that they're under attack from legislation from the Orban government. when people come out to protest, it's very easy for the Orban government to say, look, this is the liberal cosmopolitan elite and we are protecting you from that and their globalist influence. And it's an argument that works and that you can sort of apply to whichever country in the region. It's like choose your own anti-Soros adventure. Yeah, sure.

Sean Rameswaram: So at first you have, you know, we're dissatisfied. We start talking about Soros. But then especially in 2015, the migrant crisis begins. Soros funds NGOs that help migrants and asylum seekers. So it's sort of two birds, one stone, right? You can have your anti-migrant campaign, even though you're not letting any in. And also attack Soros and have this outside enemy and solidify your own political power.

Emily Tamkin: Just thinking about how Roseanne is tweeting about this guy, and he's also so important in Eastern European politics and such a controversial figure there. It feels like he can just be whatever boogeyman you want him to be. Yeah. So I think of him like in those Harry Potter books where the young witches and wizards like looked into that mirror. I see that you, like so many before you, have discovered the delights of the Mirror of Erised. I think it's called the Mirror of Erised. I trust by now you realize what it does. They see whatever it is that they most want or need. So then it shows us what we want, whatever we want. Yes. Soros is like that, but with, like, hate, you know? So, like, if you're in Romania, you don't like him because he's Hungarian. If you're in Hungary, you don't like him because he's Hungarian and he left Hungary and made his money elsewhere and he was coming back and influencing your country. If you in Israel you don't like him because he overly supportive of Palestinians If you are in the United States well he funding these democratic politicians Now, he's not actually a politician in any of these countries. He's not the one that you necessarily need to be going after to change policy. But he's very effective if you want to change politics.

Sean Rameswaram: George Soros has a ton of money. I guess that's the one thing everyone knows about him. I also know he's in like banking, investing, but how do you get to be so rich? I mean, the one thing I always hear is that he like broke the Bank of England. He doesn't become known as the man who broke the Bank of England until the early 90s. Is that a thing So Black Wednesday in England is the day that Soros broke the pound No it the day that he didn break the pound He and other investors made Britain pull out of Europe exchange rate mechanism OK. The most dramatic U-turn in government economic strategy for 25 years was forced on the prime minister and chancellor by the overwhelming pressure of billions upon billions of pounds being sold in the foreign exchange markets. The pound will now be left to find its own level in the markets, inevitably below the ERM floor, which the government was pledged to defend. Soros and other British investors sort of looked and said, oh, this is like we know which way the wind is going. And so they basically bet against the pound. The Bank of England lost billions and Soros gained about a billion. Wow. Right. Just himself. Yes.

Emily Tamkin: So he's doing all this philanthropic work. He's promoting democracy. He's promoting student travel. How does someone who seems to be doing sort of benign, likable, philanthropic work first start to get controversial? When exactly does that happen? When do people start to hate George Soros?

Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so he opened society. These countries join the EU in the aughts, early mid-2000s. And then open society says, okay, this is now the job of the European Union. We're going to start to pull back out of this region a little bit. Okay. It's actually only after he pulls out of the region a bit that this idea of Soros as the monster comes up. And the reason is that these countries are now in the EU. The EU is not delivering the sort of magic turnaround that had been promised to the people. And you have these populist leaders come to power or come back to power. So you have Orban in Hungary, you have Fica in Slovakia, you have Dragnea in Romania, you have law and justice in Poland, all of whom are sort of similarly moderately far right or moderately far left, and all of whom are far and away the most powerful actors in their country, right? So none of whom really want to build up a political rival at home, all of them can turn to Soros. He is Hungarian, which means that he's not liked in Romania or Slovakia. And in his native Hungary, where he could be painted as a traitor, even though back when he was even more involved there financially, he was quite popular. He is Jewish, which is just not a popular thing to be in that region. He's in finance, which plays to the Jewish stereotype. And also, if you were like a common person in, I don't know, like a village in Romania, right, is sort of a very easy thing to suspect. If you look at the protests against Central European University, right, which was the university that he founded, Soros founded, that is, in Budapest in the early 90s, they say that they're under attack from legislation from the Orban government. when people come out to protest, it's very easy for the Orban government to say, look, this is the liberal cosmopolitan elite and we are protecting you from that and their globalist influence. And it's an argument that works and that you can sort of apply to whichever country in the region. It's like choose your own anti-Soros adventure. Yeah, sure.

Sean Rameswaram: So at first you have, you know, we're dissatisfied. We start talking about Soros. But then especially in 2015, the migrant crisis begins. Soros funds NGOs that help migrants and asylum seekers. So it's sort of two birds, one stone, right? You can have your anti-migrant campaign, even though you're not letting any in. And also attack Soros and have this outside enemy and solidify your own political power.

Emily Tamkin: Just thinking about how Roseanne is tweeting about this guy, and he's also so important in Eastern European politics and such a controversial figure there. It feels like he can just be whatever boogeyman you want him to be. Yeah. So I think of him like in those Harry Potter books where the young witches and wizards like looked into that mirror. I see that you, like so many before you, have discovered the delights of the Mirror of Erised. I think it's called the Mirror of Erised. I trust by now you realize what it does. They see whatever it is that they most want or need. So then it shows us what we want, whatever we want. Yes. Soros is like that, but with, like, hate, you know? So, like, if you're in Romania, you don't like him because he's Hungarian. If you're in Hungary, you don't like him because he's Hungarian and he left Hungary and made his money elsewhere and he was coming back and influencing your country. If you in Israel you don't like him because he overly supportive of Palestinians If you are in the United States well he funding these democratic politicians Now, he's not actually a politician in any of these countries. He's not the one that you necessarily need to be going after to change policy. But he's very effective if you want to change politics.

Sean Rameswaram: George Soros has a ton of money. I guess that's the one thing everyone knows about him. I also know he's in like banking, investing, but how do you get to be so rich? I mean, the one thing I always hear is that he like broke the Bank of England. He doesn't become known as the man who broke the Bank of England until the early 90s. Is that a thing So Black Wednesday in England is the day that Soros broke the pound No it the day that he didn break the pound He and other investors made Britain pull out of Europe exchange rate mechanism OK. The most dramatic U-turn in government economic strategy for 25 years was forced on the prime minister and chancellor by the overwhelming pressure of billions upon billions of pounds being sold in the foreign exchange markets. The pound will now be left to find its own level in the markets, inevitably below the ERM floor, which the government was pledged to defend. Soros and other British investors sort of looked and said, oh, this is like we know which way the wind is going. And so they basically bet against the pound. The Bank of England lost billions and Soros gained about a billion. Wow. Right. Just himself. Yes.

Emily Tamkin: So he's doing all this philanthropic work. He's promoting democracy. He's promoting student travel. How does someone who seems to be doing sort of benign, likable, philanthropic work first start to get controversial? When exactly does that happen? When do people start to hate George Soros?

Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so he opened society. These countries join the EU in the aughts, early mid-2000s. And then open society says, okay, this is now the job of the European Union. We're going to start to pull back out of this region a little bit. Okay. It's actually only after he pulls out of the region a bit that this idea of Soros as the monster comes up. And the reason is that these countries are now in the EU. The EU is not delivering the sort of magic turnaround that had been promised to the people. And you have these populist leaders come to power or come back to power. So you have Orban in Hungary, you have Fica in Slovakia, you have Dragnea in Romania, you have law and justice in Poland, all of whom are sort of similarly moderately far right or moderately far left, and all of whom are far and away the most powerful actors in their country, right? So none of whom really want to build up a political rival at home, all of them can turn to Soros. He is Hungarian, which means that he's not liked in Romania or Slovakia. And in his native Hungary, where he could be painted as a traitor, even though back when he was even more involved there financially, he was quite popular. He is Jewish, which is just not a popular thing to be in that region. He's in finance, which plays to the Jewish stereotype. And also, if you were like a common person in, I don't know, like a village in Romania, right, is sort of a very easy thing to suspect. If you look at the protests against Central European University, right, which was the university that he founded, Soros founded, that is, in Budapest in the early 90s, they say that they're under attack from legislation from the Orban government. when people come out to protest, it's very easy for the Orban government to say, look, this is the liberal cosmopolitan elite and we are protecting you from that and their globalist influence. And it's an argument that works and that you can sort of apply to whichever country in the region. It's like choose your own anti-Soros adventure. Yeah, sure.

Sean Rameswaram: So at first you have, you know, we're dissatisfied. We start talking about Soros. But then especially in 2015, the migrant crisis begins. Soros funds NGOs that help migrants and asylum seekers. So it's sort of two birds, one stone, right? You can have your anti-migrant campaign, even though you're not letting any in. And also attack Soros and have this outside enemy and solidify your own political power.

Emily Tamkin: Just thinking about how Roseanne is tweeting about this guy, and he's also so important in Eastern European politics and such a controversial figure there. It feels like he can just be whatever boogeyman you want him to be. Yeah. So I think of him like in those Harry Potter books where the young witches and wizards like looked into that mirror. I see that you, like so many before you, have discovered the delights of the Mirror of Erised. I think it's called the Mirror of Erised. I trust by now you realize what it does. They see whatever it is that they most want or need. So then it shows us what we want, whatever we want. Yes. Soros is like that, but with, like, hate, you know? So, like, if you're in Romania, you don't like him because he's Hungarian. If you're in Hungary, you don't like him because he's Hungarian and he left Hungary and made his money elsewhere and he was coming back and influencing your country. If you in Israel you don't like him because he overly supportive of Palestinians If you are in the United States well he funding these democratic politicians Now, he's not actually a politician in any of these countries. He's not the one that you necessarily need to be going after to change policy. But he's very effective if you want to change politics.

Sean Rameswaram: George Soros has a ton of money. I guess that's the one thing everyone knows about him. I also know he's in like banking, investing, but how do you get to be so rich? I mean, the one thing I always hear is that he like broke the Bank of England. He doesn't become known as the man who broke the Bank of England until the early 90s. Is that a thing So Black Wednesday in England is the day that Soros broke the pound No it the day that he didn break the pound He and other investors made Britain pull out of Europe exchange rate mechanism OK. The most dramatic U-turn in government economic strategy for 25 years was forced on the prime minister and chancellor by the overwhelming pressure of billions upon billions of pounds being sold in the foreign exchange markets. The pound will now be left to find its own level in the markets, inevitably below the ERM floor, which the government was pledged to defend. Soros and other British investors sort of looked and said, oh, this is like we know which way the wind is going. And so they basically bet against the pound. The Bank of England lost billions and Soros gained about a billion. Wow. Right. Just himself. Yes.

Emily Tamkin: So he's doing all this philanthropic work. He's promoting democracy. He's promoting student travel. How does someone who seems to be doing sort of benign, likable, philanthropic work first start to get controversial? When exactly does that happen? When do people start to hate George Soros?

Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so he opened society. These countries join the EU in the aughts, early mid-2000s. And then open society says, okay, this is now the job of the European Union. We're going to start to pull back out of this region a little bit. Okay. It's actually only after he pulls out of the region a bit that this idea of Soros as the monster comes up. And the reason is that these countries are now in the EU. The EU is not delivering the sort of magic turnaround that had been promised to the people. And you have these populist leaders come to power or come back to power. So you have Orban in Hungary, you have Fica in Slovakia, you have Dragnea in Romania, you have law and justice in Poland, all of whom are sort of similarly moderately far right or moderately far left, and all of whom are far and away the most powerful actors in their country, right? So none of whom really want to build up a political rival at home, all of them can turn to Soros. He is Hungarian, which means that he's not liked in Romania or Slovakia. And in his native Hungary, where he could be painted as a traitor, even though back when he was even more involved there financially, he was quite popular. He is Jewish, which is just not a popular thing to be in that region. He's in finance, which plays to the Jewish stereotype. And also, if you were like a common person in, I don't know, like a village in Romania, right, is sort of a very easy thing to suspect. If you look at the protests against Central European University, right, which was the university that he founded, Soros founded, that is, in Budapest in the early 90s, they say that they're under attack from legislation from the Orban government. when people come out to protest, it's very easy for the Orban government to say, look, this is the liberal cosmopolitan elite and we are protecting you from that and their globalist influence. And it's an argument that works and that you can sort of apply to whichever country in the region. It's like choose your own anti-Soros adventure. Yeah, sure.

Sean Rameswaram: So at first you have, you know, we're dissatisfied. We start talking about Soros. But then especially in 2015, the migrant crisis begins. Soros funds NGOs that help migrants and asylum seekers. So it's sort of two birds, one stone, right? You can have your anti-migrant campaign, even though you're not letting any in. And also attack Soros and have this outside enemy and solidify your own political power.

Emily Tamkin: Just thinking about how Roseanne is tweeting about this guy, and he's also so important in Eastern European politics and such a controversial figure there. It feels like he can just be whatever boogeyman you want him to be. Yeah. So I think of him like in those Harry Potter books where the young witches and wizards like looked into that mirror. I see that you, like so many before you, have discovered the delights of the Mirror of Erised. I think it's called the Mirror of Erised. I trust by now you realize what it does. They see whatever it is that they most want or need. So then it shows us what we want, whatever we want. Yes. Soros is like that, but with, like, hate, you know? So, like, if you're in Romania, you don't like him because he's Hungarian. If you're in Hungary, you don't like him because he's Hungarian and he left Hungary and made his money elsewhere and he was coming back and influencing your country. If you in Israel you don't like him because he overly supportive of Palestinians If you are in the United States well he funding these democratic politicians Now, he's not actually a politician in any of these countries. He's not the one that you necessarily need to be going after to change policy. But he's very effective if you want to change politics.

Sean Rameswaram: George Soros has a ton of money. I guess that's the one thing everyone knows about him. I also know he's in like banking, investing, but how do you get to be so rich? I mean, the one thing I always hear is that he like broke the Bank of England. He doesn't become known as the man who broke the Bank of England until the early 90s. Is that a thing So Black Wednesday in England is the day that Soros broke the pound No it the day that he didn break the pound He and other investors made Britain pull out of Europe exchange rate mechanism OK. The most dramatic U-turn in government economic strategy for 25 years was forced on the prime minister and chancellor by the overwhelming pressure of billions upon billions of pounds being sold in the foreign exchange markets. The pound will now be left to find its own level in the markets, inevitably below the ERM floor, which the government was pledged to defend. Soros and other British investors sort of looked and said, oh, this is like we know which way the wind is going. And so they basically bet against the pound. The Bank of England lost billions and Soros gained about a billion. Wow. Right. Just himself. Yes.

Emily Tamkin: So he's doing all this philanthropic work. He's promoting democracy. He's promoting student travel. How does someone who seems to be doing sort of benign, likable, philanthropic work first start to get controversial? When exactly does that happen? When do people start to hate George Soros?

Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so he opened society. These countries join the EU in the aughts, early mid-2000s. And then open society says, okay, this is now the job of the European Union. We're going to start to pull back out of this region a little bit. Okay. It's actually only after he pulls out of the region a bit that this idea of Soros as the monster comes up. And the reason is that these countries are now in the EU. The EU is not delivering the sort of magic turnaround that had been promised to the people. And you have these populist leaders come to power or come back to power. So you have Orban in Hungary, you have Fica in Slovakia, you have Dragnea in Romania, you have law and justice in Poland, all of whom are sort of similarly moderately far right or moderately far left, and all of whom are far and away the most powerful actors in their country, right? So none of whom really want to build up a political rival at home, all of them can turn to Soros. He is Hungarian, which means that he's not liked in Romania or Slovakia. And in his native Hungary, where he could be painted as a traitor, even though back when he was even more involved there financially, he was quite popular. He is Jewish, which is just not a popular thing to be in that region. He's in finance, which plays to the Jewish stereotype. And also, if you were like a common person in, I don't know, like a village in Romania, right, is sort of a very easy thing to suspect. If you look at the protests against Central European University, right, which was the university that he founded, Soros founded, that is, in Budapest in the early 90s, they say that they're under attack from legislation from the Orban government. when people come out to protest, it's very easy for the Orban government to say, look, this is the liberal cosmopolitan elite and we are protecting you from that and their globalist influence. And it's an argument that works and that you can sort of apply to whichever country in the region. It's like choose your own anti-Soros adventure. Yeah, sure.

Sean Rameswaram: So at first you have, you know, we're dissatisfied. We start talking about Soros. But then especially in 2015, the migrant crisis begins. Soros funds NGOs that help migrants and asylum seekers. So it's sort of two birds, one stone, right? You can have your anti-migrant campaign, even though you're not letting any in. And also attack Soros and have this outside enemy and solidify your own political power.

Emily Tamkin: Just thinking about how Roseanne is tweeting about this guy, and he's also so important in Eastern European politics and such a controversial figure there. It feels like he can just be whatever boogeyman you want him to be. Yeah. So I think of him like in those Harry Potter books where the young witches and wizards like looked into that mirror. I see that you, like so many before you, have discovered the delights of the Mirror of Erised. I think it's called the Mirror of Erised. I trust by now you realize what it does. They see whatever it is that they most want or need. So then it shows us what we want, whatever we want. Yes. Soros is like that, but with, like, hate, you know? So, like, if you're in Romania, you don't like him because he's Hungarian. If you're in Hungary, you don't like him because he's Hungarian and he left Hungary and made his money elsewhere and he was coming back and influencing your country. If you in Israel you don't like him because he overly supportive of Palestinians If you are in the United States well he funding these democratic politicians Now, he's not actually a politician in any of these countries. He's not the one that you necessarily need to be going after to change policy. But he's very effective if you want to change politics.

Sean Rameswaram: George Soros