--:-- [Theme music fades out]
--:-- Scott Simon: Oh, Ayesha, it's you. Yes, yes. Oh my goodness. The question, who's next on the president's retribution list? It's not a list, but I think there'll be others. Others who could find themselves in the same situation as James Comey.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Ayesha Roscoe with Up First from NPR News. The Justice Department indicted the former FBI director days after President Trump called on Attorney General Pam Bondi to do so. We'll talk to our justice correspondent.
--:-- Scott Simon: American investors are taking over TikTok and paying the government to do it. Our tech correspondent asks experts when a fee is just a fee. And then NPR's immigration policy reporter on DACA in the era of mass deportations. So please stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your weekend.
--:-- Scott Simon: Welcome back to Up First. The deal to take over TikTok's U.S. operations comes with a price tag. And not just to its Beijing-based owner, ByteDance. The Coalition of American Investors will also make a payment to the U.S. government. It's the latest example of something that's becoming increasingly common in this White House, extracting cash from private businesses for President Trump's deal-making. And here's Bobby Allen. He's been looking into it and joins us now.
--:-- Bobby Allen: Thanks for being with us, Scott.
--:-- Scott Simon: First, who's buying what I'll call U.S. TikTok?
--:-- Bobby Allen: Yeah, there's a number of mostly U.S. investors, including Michael Dell, the Murdoch family, and Oracle, which is run by Trump ally Larry Ellison. And like you said, they're buying the U.S. side, so the U.S. version of TikTok, to comply with a federal law that says China cannot have control over the app.
--:-- Scott Simon: The White House is valuing the deal at around $14 billion. But, of course, that's not with the additional fee. How much is that fee going to be?
--:-- Bobby Allen: I have a source with direct knowledge of the talks who was not authorized to speak, but they said the investors have agreed to a fee in the low billions, and that would be devoted to the U.S. Treasury.
--:-- Scott Simon: Why would the investors pay that?
--:-- Bobby Allen: My source told me that it's just seen as the price of doing business right now. But to say this kind of fee to the federal government is unusual is quite the understatement.
--:-- Scott Simon: And this is not the first time the administration's gotten involved in a deal like this, right?
--:-- Bobby Allen: Yeah, there are a number of other examples including chip makers NVIDIA and AMD. They're going to be giving the federal government 15 percent of its sales to China. The White House secured a so-called golden share in U.S. Steel. And my colleague David Fulkenflick has reported that when CBS settled a Trump lawsuit for $16 million, it cleared the way for parent company Paramount to merge with Skydance Media.
--:-- Scott Simon: Some experts say these arrangements look like shakedown schemes.
--:-- Bobby Allen: I talked to Luigi Zingales. He's a finance professor at the University of Chicago, and he calls these arrangements rent-seeking. Common language is less sophisticated, it's called sucking up, but it is exactly quite expensive.
--:-- Scott Simon: Bobby, how does the Trump administration respond to this criticism?
--:-- Bobby Allen: The White House didn't return my request for comment, but in the Oval Office on Thursday, Trump was asked about the multibillion-dollar fee and he dodged the question. Instead, he said, quote, "The U.S. comes out great in the TikTok deal."
--:-- Scott Simon: Welcome back to Up First. President Trump has vowed mass deportations of everyone who is in this country without legal status. For a few groups of people, such as DACA recipients, their status is not cut and dry. The Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program is supposed to protect DREAMers from immigration enforcement, but several DACA recipients have been arrested and detained. NPR's immigration policy reporter Jimena Bustillo has been following this and joins us now.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: Hi, Scott.
--:-- Scott Simon: So the DACA program was created in 2012. Where does it stand today?
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: The program was created to protect children who arrived in the country illegally prior to 2007 from deportation. But DACA is not an immediate path to citizenship or even a green card. Participants instead have to renew their protection every two years. They can also be removed from the program and lose protections if they commit crimes.
--:-- Scott Simon: Currently, about half a million people are on DACA, and now many of them are in their 30s and 40s. It provides a work permit and can be adjusted if a person leaves the U.S. and comes back with a visa or marries a U.S. citizen, among other options to adjust status.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: And since it was created, there has been no successful effort to provide a pathway to legal status for those who are on the program. Plus, the president had already tried to repeal DACA in his first term, and he failed to do so.
--:-- Scott Simon: Since President Trump couldn't get DACA repealed then, how is he approaching the program in his second term?
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: So far, no regulatory changes have been made to formally end the program. But parts of Trump's administration have made moves to strip benefits. For example, the Health and Human Services Department said in June, DACA recipients would no longer be eligible to buy insurance through the federal health care marketplace.
--:-- Scott Simon: Then in July, the Education Department launched an investigation into five universities that offer financial help directly to DACA recipients.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: And as the Homeland Security Department has increased the rates of arrests there have been reports of DACA recipients being caught up in worksite raids and even deportations.
--:-- Scott Simon: At one point I asked DHS about this and they told me that DACA did not confer legal status and that those without legal status are encouraged to self-deport.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: Now, that's a very strong message that deviates from the first public statement Trump made after he won the election last year.
--:-- Scott Simon: So what did he say then?
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: At the time, Trump said on NBC's Meet the Press that he would be open to negotiating a deal for DACA with Democrats.
--:-- Scott Simon: Now, both Republicans and Democrats have hung on to that statement made in December as a sign that someday Trump may say he's ready to come to that negotiating table, though there has since been nearly no discussion on the issue.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: And instead, the focus is still on deportations.
--:-- Scott Simon: DACA could be addressed not just by the president, but particularly by Congress. What can Congress do?
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: Right. Ultimately, any permanent solution has to come from Congress. But the coalition that cares about this issue is a little bit fractured right now.
--:-- Scott Simon: I spoke with several GOP senators and representatives that have all previously supported finding a pathway for DACA recipients. And Senate Democrats have been increasingly vocal about the urgency to find a solution because arrests are happening.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: Still, Republicans control both chambers of Congress, and there was the consensus that nothing would happen this year.
--:-- Scott Simon: There are simply other concerns at the top of lawmakers' minds, like keeping the government from shutting down, for example.
--:-- Jimena Bustillo: And they also said that they were waiting for the president himself to say that it's time to broker a deal.
--:-- Scott Simon: There are a few efforts in the House and Senate, individual bills that would provide a pathway to legal status for DACA recipients. But there isn't a sense that they will move anytime soon, even as Trump's deportation efforts only grow.
--:-- [Closing music starts]
--:-- Scott Simon: That's it for Saturday, September 27th, 2025. I'm Scott Simon. And I'm Ayesha Roscoe.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Michael Radcliffe produced today's podcast with help from Elena Twork and Dave Mistich, our editor.
--:-- Scott Simon: That's been Ed McNulty, along with Gabriel Donatoff, Melissa Gray, Krishna Jeff Calamar, Jeff Brumfield, and Megan Prats.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Fernando Naro directed. Our technical director was David Greenberg, with engineering support from Nisha Hines, Zovang Genhoven, and Ted Meebane.
--:-- Scott Simon: Our senior supervising editor is Shannon Rhodes.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Evie Stone is our executive producer, and Jim Kane is our deputy managing editor.
--:-- Scott Simon: Tomorrow on the Sunday Story, feelings about the course of the country from around the country, from wheat farmers in Washington State to merchants in Mississippi. That's here on the podcast. And there is a ton more on the radio.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So please find your local NPR station at stations.npr.org.
--:-- Scott Simon: There's nothing more important you can do for yourself. Well, nothing. I mean, it's like doctor recommended and everything.
--:-- [Closing music continues]
--:-- Scott Simon: This message comes from NPR sponsor 1Password. Protect your digital life with 1Password. If you're tired of family members constantly texting you for the passwords to streaming services, 1Password lets you securely share or remove access to logins.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Access from any device, anytime. 1Password lets you securely switch between iPhone, Android, Mac, and PC with convenient features like autofill for quick sign-ins.
--:-- Scott Simon: Right now, get a free two-week trial for you and your family at 1Password.com slash NPR.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees, and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you with plans starting from $15 a month.
--:-- Scott Simon: Shop plans today at MintMobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for a three-month five-gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first three months only. Then full-price plan options available. Taxes and Fees Extra. See Mint Mobile for details.
--:-- [Closing music ends]
