--:-- Leila Fadel: Good morning. Good morning. How you doing? I'm okay. How are you? I'm okay. You're doing better when I have a little more coffee. Isn't that a good sound? That's a great sound.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: President Trump praised his defense secretary even as an official talked of a search for a replacement.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Pete Hegseth shared details of a forthcoming attack in a second group chat. Also, why did an official in his office quit and why were others fired? I'm Leila Fadel. That's Steve Inskeep and this is Up First from NPR News.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Some people were in tears at St. Peter's Square. They put into words their appreciation for the late Pope Francis. His concern for others and the world and trying to set an example.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Also, some parents seek the right to pick what their kids are exposed to in school. It's just very heartbreaking to me how many parents feel like they have to choose between educating their child and raising their children in their faith.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: A Supreme Court case tests the power to opt out of some lessons. Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day.
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--:-- Leila Fadel: To get matched with a therapist, visit betterhelp.com slash NPR for 10% off your first month.
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--:-- Steve Inskeep: We are waiting to see how, if at all, President Trump addresses the leadership of the Defense Department. One U.S. official tells NPR that the search is underway to replace Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Publicly, the president is standing behind him after a tumultuous week. Hegseth's office fired some of his aides. Then came revelations that the secretary shared details of impending airstrikes in Yemen again.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: NPR confirmed the second chat on the messaging app Signal, which included Hegseth's wife, his brother, and his personal lawyer.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The first chat was with top officials and a journalist who was inadvertently included.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: NPR's Quill Lawrence is here to tell us more. Quill, good morning.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: Hey, good morning. So we'll note that you're reporting this story with our colleague Tom Bowman. What are you guys hearing?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Yeah, a U.S. official told us that the search has begun after this second round of headlines about Hegseth.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: I should add that the White House has said our anonymous source doesn't know what they're talking about.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: But at a Rose Garden event yesterday, the president stood firmly by Hegseth, at least publicly.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: No, he's doing a great job. It's just fake news. It just bring up stories. I guess it sounds like disgruntled employees.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Quill, that phrase, disgruntled employees. I think Hegseth used a similar phrase in his public remarks about this and referred to people who were fired in his office.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: Yeah, there were four senior advisers to Hegseth who left in just the past week.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Former Defense Department spokesman John Elliott resigned last week and then published a quite extraordinary opinion piece calling the past month at the Pentagon a quote full meltdown and saying that this infighting is hurting President Trump.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: He served in Trump's first administration and appears to want to continue to serve.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Three other Pentagon advisors, Colin Carroll, Dan Caldwell, and Darren Selnick, were escorted out of the Pentagon and accused of leaking information to the press.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: They then put out, as a trio, the three of them put out a joint statement on X saying that their dismissal was unconscionable and that they haven't even been told what they stand accused of leaking.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: All three of them served in uniform. They say they understand the importance of information security.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: Caldwell and Selnick, notably, are longtime associates of Hegseth. They've worked with him over a decade back to when he was at Concerned Veterans for America, a policy group.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So I'm trying to figure out what all of this adds up to.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: The White House does appear to be backing Hegseth, but he's been revealed, NPR has confirmed, the original New York Times report, that there was a second chat group on Signal where he was sharing information about an impending attack.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Yeah, I mean, with the first chat group, it was against Pentagon policy to use Signal for that.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: There were a lot of security issues with it discussing details of an attack hours before the bombs hit in Yemen.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: But the people in that chat were the vice president, the secretary of state, people who would need to know this.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: It appears that Hegseth was just cut and pasting this actionable intelligence about U.S. strikes to his wife.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: People who just, I can't think of any conceivable need they would have to know this information.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: And military sources, veterans I talked to, were just outraged about this.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: They say that it really did put U.S. lives at risk and American security at risk.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: And they're concerned that this example being set, you know, the military really drills into troops that they have to take responsibility for their actions, own up.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And so far, Hegseth has not done that yet for either of these Signal chats.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: Yeah, and I guess we should emphasize Hank Seth's side has insisted no classified information was shared, leaning on how they define classified information, but it was information about an impending attack, which is always considered sensitive.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Quill, thanks so much.
--:-- Quill Lawrence: Thank you, Steve.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: That's NPR's Quill Lawrence. And since we mentioned Signal, we will also mention that NPR's CEO chairs the board of the nonprofit Signal Foundation, which we cover like any other entity.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Church bells tolled from Notre Dame in Paris to the Philippines for the death of Pope Francis.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: He died on Monday at 88 years old after leading the Catholic Church's 1.4 billion followers.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Tributes have poured in from around the world remembering Jorge Mario Bergoglio, the first pope from Latin America, as a leader who advocated for the poor and the dispossessed.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: In Rome, the faithful gathered for rosary prayers for Francis and preparations are underway for his funeral.
--:-- Leila Fadel: NPR's Ruth Sherlock is in Rome. Hi there, Ruth.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: Hi, good morning. What are you hearing from people in St. Peter's Square?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: There's real emotion and a sense of loss.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: You know, many were in tears at the rosary prayers last night.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But Steve, people are also talking about Francis's legacy, about what he stood for in his 12 years as Pope.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: This is Ruth Angeletti from Montana. His concern for others and the world, the environment, concern for other people, and trying to set an example.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Part of that example was to his own church. Francis famously derided the wealth and the lace and the frills that come with the papacy.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: He'd wear simpler outfits, he kept his plastic watch, travelled in a small Fiat car, promoting this idea of a less ornate, gold-laden church.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And then he was also an advocate for migrants and the environment and seen as being friendlier to the LGBTQ faithful.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: He been accused though of not making substantial enough changes to the church.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Here Ian Kilroy from Ireland. I think Francis was too radical for the conservatives in the church and not radical enough for the reformers in the church.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: But certainly his impulse was towards reform within Catholicism, and he will be remembered for that.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So even among regular people, you can kind of see the debates taking shape on what his future legacy might be.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: Yeah, It's been fascinating to reflect on how much he changed the tone of the church without changing the underlying rules of the church.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Yeah, exactly.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And now we go on to the funeral and a selection. What are you hearing about the next few days?
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: His body will be moved to St. Peter's Basilica where people could come to see him from Wednesday.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Previous popes were placed in these three nested coffins standing on an elevated bier for the public viewing.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: But Francis has ordered that he'll be put in a single wooden coffin and it's going to be positioned facing the church pews.
--:-- Leila Fadel: His funeral will be Saturday.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Of course, many people will come from all around the world, including President Trump.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: And then what about the conclave that comes after?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Well, it's the largest conclave in history. Pope Francis has appointed 108 of the 135 cardinals who can vote in the conclave.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: Here's Austin Ivory, Pope Francis's biographer. He's appointed so many cardinals who are from far-flung places, often with very small Catholic populations, who are on the frontier of inter-religious dialogue or war or suffering, or anyway, the realities of the world, so that they bring those realities into the room.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So even if Francis chooses cardinals with a similar outlook, experts say many will still differ and view on some of the huge range of issues, and there's really no guarantee that the conclave will choose a more liberal pope like Francis.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: Yeah, it is a fascinating choice to be watching.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: NPR's Ruth Sherlock, thanks so much.
--:-- Ruth Sherlock: Thank you.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Today, the U.S. Supreme Court considers a question about public schools.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Right, that question is whether and when parents should be allowed to pull their kids out of class over religious objections.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Can parents pick and choose different bits of the curriculum taking education a la carte?
--:-- Leila Fadel: NPR Legal Affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg is covering this case. Hi, Nina.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: Hi there, Steve.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So what are the basics of the case before the court?
--:-- Nina Totenberg: At the center of the case is the school system in our own nearby Montgomery County, Maryland, and it's the most religiously diverse county in the United States of America.
--:-- Leila Fadel: It has 160,000 students of almost all faiths.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: And on one side are parents who want to opt their elementary and middle school children out of classes when those classes include storybooks with LGBTQ characters and themes.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And the parents contend that the books expose their children to ideas that contradict their religious values.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: I talked to Grace Morrison, who's one of the parents who's suing the school system.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Her daughter was 10 when the LGBTQ books were introduced in their curriculum.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: So rather than risk exposure to the unwanted ideas, Morrison is homeschooling her daughter.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And here she is.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: It's just very heartbreaking to me how many parents feel like they have to choose between educating their child and raising their children in their faith.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And what she really wants to do is to have her kid in the public school and be able to say that when certain material is discussed at all, the kid will be opted out of class and go to a different classroom.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: Has the school board made any effort to accommodate that point of view?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Well, the board initially did allow opt-outs, but it says it became just unmanageable.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: Unlike a sex ed class, for example, where the school system does allow opt-outs, the board says it became a logistical nightmare to take children out of a classroom when a single storybook that features some same-sex parent or gay and lesbian kids could come up at any time.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And then there's the question of where do you draw the line?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Could parents opt their kids out of a science class where Darwin theory of evolution is being taught or a history class where there a section on how women got out of the kitchen and into the workforce These are things that are against some people's religious views.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: Well, what has the law said up to now before this case?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Well, I talked to Yale Law Professor Justin Driver, who's written extensively about the history of public schools, and he says that generally these curriculum decisions are left to local school boards unless there's some effort to coerce students into accepting a religious belief.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: He defends the way the Montgomery County system has handled this issue.
--:-- Leila Fadel: It seems to me that the process is working as it should, rather than empowering individual parents or students to be able to control it.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: People have raised objections. The school district has heard those objections and modified their practice.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So we've heard the facts of this case. We've heard a little bit of the history. What happens when you take those facts and that history and put it before these particular nine justices?
--:-- Nina Totenberg: Well, answering that question is dangerous, you know.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: My guess is that a majority of the justices will side with the objectors who want an opt-out.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: But that's not a certainty.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I draw that conclusion mainly because a majority of the court has had little exposure to attending a public school themselves.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: I don't know where they sent their kids to school, but only three of the justices went to public schools.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: The other six all attended private Catholic schools.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Nina, thanks so much.
--:-- Nina Totenberg: Thank you, Steve.
--:-- Leila Fadel: That's NPR's Nina Totenberg.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Today, we're also following a lawsuit filed by Harvard University.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The nation's wealthiest school is challenging President Trump's administration, which froze more than $2 billion in grants for research.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: The administration asserts that it wants to crack down on anti-Semitism.
--:-- Leila Fadel: It made wide-ranging demands on Harvard, for example, learning the political views of students and professors and screening international students for those who are, quote, hostile to American values.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Harvard argues there's no rational connection between anti-Semitism concerns that grew out of protests in the last couple of years and the scientific and technological research funds that were frozen.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The university frames the government's demands as a threat to its independence.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And that's a first for this Tuesday, April 22nd.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I'm Steve Inskeep. And I'm Leila Fadel. The NPR app lets you keep public radio right in your pocket.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: You'll find a mix of local, national, and international news, plus the very best podcasts from the NPR network.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Download the NPR app at your corner store.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: It's Safeway.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Today's Up First was edited by Andrew Sussman, Ryland Barton, Krishnadev Calamur, Arezou Rezvani, and Janaya Williams.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas.
--:-- Leila Fadel: We get engineering support from Arthur Laurent, who has been supportive as long as I've ever been on this program.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And our technical director is Carleigh Strange.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Join us tomorrow.
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