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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: At least five people are dead after a gunman rammed his truck into a church in Michigan during services, started shooting and set the building on fire. The suspect is among the dead after a shootout with police. Authorities still don't have a motive. I'm Michelle Martin. That's A. Martinez. And this is Up First from NPR News.
--:-- Host: A. Martinez: A government shutdown could begin tomorrow and President Trump is set to meet congressional leaders for last-minute negotiations. Now, if the president at this meeting is going to rant and just yell at Democrats, we won't get anything done. Is a deal still possible or are both sides still too locked in?
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: And President Trump meets Israel's prime minister at the White House today to discuss a new U.S.-backed ceasefire plan. We're getting pretty close to having a deal on Gaza and maybe even peace. Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Support comes from our 2025 lead sponsor of Up First, Amazon Business. How can you free your team from time-consuming office tasks? Amazon Business empowers leaders to not only streamline purchasing, but better support their teams. Smart business buying tools enable buyers to find and purchase items fast so they can focus on strategy and growth. It's time to free up your teams and focus on your future. Learn more about the technology, insights, and support available at amazonbusiness.com.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices, like full-service wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on Think or Swim. Visit schwab.com to learn more.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: This message comes from LPL Financial. What if you could have more control over your future? LPL Financial removes the things holding you back and provides the services to push you forward. Because when it comes to your finances, your business, your future, LPL Financial believes the only question should be, what if you could? LPL Financial, member FINRA SIPC. No strategy assures success or protects against loss. Investing involves risk, including possible loss of principle.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: A church service in Grand Blanc, Michigan, was violently interrupted Sunday morning after a man drove his truck into a Mormon church, fired at the people inside, and set the building on fire. Authorities say four people from the church died and eight others are hospitalized, and a suspected gunman is also dead after exchanging fire with officers. An unknown number of people are unaccounted for as authorities search what remains of the church for additional victims.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Joined now by Michigan public reporter Steve Carmody. Steve, what do we know about what happened?
--:-- Steve Carmody: Well, authorities say the attack began just before 1030 yesterday morning when the suspect drove his truck through the front doors of the church as the service was underway. Hundreds of people were inside. Grand Blanc Township Police Chief William Rennie praised the bravery of the people as the gunmen opened fire. They were shielding the children who were also present within the church, moving them to safety. Just hundreds of people just practicing their faith.
--:-- Steve Carmody: As people fled, authorities say the suspect deliberately set the church on fire using gasoline. Two law enforcement officers arrived within a minute of the first 911 call and confronted the gunman outside the church, killing him about eight minutes later.
--:-- Steve Carmody: Who is the suspected gunman? He's been identified as 40-year-old Thomas Jacob Sanford. He lived in a small town about 20 minutes from the church. He's an ex-Marine. But we don't know yet about any possible motive for the attack or if he had any relationship with the church or anyone who was attending the Sunday morning church service.
--:-- Steve Carmody: Okay, now where's the investigation right now? The FBI has taken charge of the investigation into the shooting and the suspected gunman.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Okay. Grand Blanca, Michigan is a small town, around 8,000 residents. It's 13 miles south of Flint, Michigan. How are the people there holding up?
--:-- Steve Carmody: Well, last night there were several places where people gathered for small vigils. A steady stream of people stopped by to pay their respects a short distance down the road from the church. Mother and daughter Cheryl and Haley Perkins lived nearby. They were just overwhelmed at what happened just down the street. They just want to go to church. They just want to go to church in peace.
--:-- Steve Carmody: Now, others expressed shock. Scott Bennett is the Grand Blanc Township supervisor. This kind of violence doesn't happen in our community, and we are heartbroken that it came to Grand Blanc Township.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: That's Steve Carmody, a reporter with Michigan Public. Steve, thank you very much.
--:-- Steve Carmody: You're welcome.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: If Congress fails to reach agreement and pass a stopgap funding bill before tomorrow night, there will be a government shutdown. As you probably know, Republicans control both the House and the Senate and the White House, but they need Democrats' help to clear a 60-vote threshold in the Senate. And as the clock keeps on ticking, President Trump is planning to meet this afternoon with the top four leaders in Congress, two Democrats, two Republicans.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Joining us to talk through what that discussion might look like is NPR congressional correspondent Barbara Sprunt. So Barbara, Democrats have been pushing for a meeting with the White House as it gets closer and closer to this shutdown, possibly. So how did this all come about?
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Well, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries were supposed to meet with President Trump last week, but the president canceled that meeting because he thought their demands were unreasonable. And they're now going to the Oval Office alongside their Republican counterparts, Senate Majority Leader John Thune, Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: What's interesting to me is I don't think Democrats' demands have really shifted between that canceled meeting and the one today.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Okay, so then what are they looking for? Well, there's a few things. Number one, they want to undo some cuts to healthcare programs that were put in place as part of the major spending and tax bill that Republicans passed earlier this summer. And another big sticking point is that Democrats want to make some expanded tax cuts from the Affordable Care Act permanent. Those are on track to expire at the end of the year.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Thune has said that there's time to negotiate on that particular point later. He first wants to pass this stopgap bill and avoid a shutdown and then negotiate with Democrats. But Schumer has said that he wants to negotiate this now.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Republicans in the Senate need at least seven Democrats to join them in order to pass a bill to fund the government through late November.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Here's Schumer yesterday on NBC's Meet the Press. We need a serious negotiation. Now, if the president at this meeting is going to rant and just yell at Democrats and talk about all his alleged grievances and say this that and the other thing, we won't get anything done. But my hope is it be a serious negotiation.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: So that's Schumer's hope. But of course, it really comes down to what the president says in the meeting.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Yeah, that's right. I mean, the Trump factor in some ways is unpredictability. You know, we've seen him scrap bipartisan deals and meetings before pretty abruptly. In this case, within the last week, he's blasted the Democratic leaders for what they're demanding and then agree to a meeting.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: So the question I have is, is this going to be a meeting where everyone comes willing to compromise and negotiate, or will they leave and just tell their bases, hey, you know, I tried, but the other side is being unreasonable?
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: So what would happen if there is no deal? Well, critical services would continue. Social security, Medicare, Medicaid payments, although there could be administrative delays in processing new applications for those programs. In a shutdown, anything deemed non-essential is put on hold. So Americans could experience delays in certain services.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Hundreds of thousands of federal workers would go without pay. And in an unprecedented move, the White House's budget arm instructed agencies last week to prepare to lay off federal workers permanently instead of that traditional temporary furlough while a deal is made.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: So if the administration makes good on that threat, it could mean that whenever the federal government does reopen, it would have a smaller workforce.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: All right. That's NPR congressional correspondent Barbara Sprunt. Barbara, thanks.
--:-- Barbara Sprunt: Thank you.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: President Trump also meets Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu today in the White House. Both leaders are expressing optimism about ending the war in Gaza. Trump has a new 21-point peace plan for Gaza. The U.S. is still negotiating the details with Israel and Arab countries. Will Trump and Netanyahu reach a breakthrough? Let's discuss the details with NPR's Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: So Daniel, what's in President Trump's proposal for ending the Gaza war?
--:-- Daniel Estrin: I spoke with a person briefed on the proposal who confirmed to me some of the main points. It calls on Hamas to release all 48 of its remaining hostages, living and dead, up front. And then it calls for a gradual process where a multinational Arab and Muslim peacekeeping force would enter Gaza and Israeli forces would withdraw.
--:-- Daniel Estrin: Now, this is a plan that Trump presented to leaders of Arab countries in New York last week. It is the most serious effort yet since Trump entered office to end the war and to chart a post-war future for Gaza.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Okay, so how much is Israel on board with this U.S. plan?
--:-- Daniel Estrin: Yeah, that's the question. Netanyahu, the prime minister, has been negotiating the details with Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, and also with the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, who's now gotten involved in this matter. And the person briefed on the talks told me that there are still a few difficult points left to resolve between the Israelis and the U.S. side.
--:-- Daniel Estrin: First is the issue of disarming Hamas. What would that look like? Hamas is adamantly opposed to giving up its weapons. And also the question of the role of the Palestinian Authority in a post-war administration of Gaza. Palestinian Authority is the internationally recognized Palestinian leadership. It's based in the West Bank, but Netanyahu does not want them to have any role in Gaza.
--:-- Daniel Estrin: He has long seen a unified Palestinian leadership as a step toward a Palestinian state, which he does not want. And notably, I should add, this is not an Israeli Hamas negotiation. This is an Israeli U.S. negotiation here. Netanyahu as we have reported has been a major obstacle to ending the war throughout the war. He has a far coalition that still wants the war to continue and they will find it very hard to accept a lot of the points that Trump is proposing now.
--:-- Daniel Estrin: You know, we've heard before, Daniel, about deals being close or something in the works doesn't seem to ever happen. Any reason to think that this effort could be any different?
--:-- Daniel Estrin: Yes, I think there is reason. Trump, first of all, brought this plan to Arab leaders, and Arab leaders are on board. And Trump wants it. That is the biggest point. It will be difficult for Netanyahu to tell Trump no to his proposal. Trump is Netanyahu's only major ally left. Israel faces growing international isolation over its conduct in the war. And Hamas, for its part, is also under major pressure from Arab countries and from Palestinians suffering under the war in Gaza under major pressure to agree to a ceasefire.
--:-- Daniel Estrin: So this really is a critical moment. Next week, we will mark two years of war. The Palestinian death toll in Gaza has now reached more than 66,000, according to Gaza health officials. So all eyes now are on Trump and on Netanyahu as they meet today in the White House. We will see if they announce if they've reached an agreement on a roadmap forward. And then the ball will be in Hamas's court.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Daniel, I mentioned that you're in Tel Aviv. What's the sense there in Tel Aviv? Are people weary of all this, or are they just wanting to somehow get some kind of resolution?
--:-- Daniel Estrin: They're extremely weary. I mean, polls, a latest survey of Israelis done just a few days ago showed over half of Israelis want the war to end. They want their hostages back, and that is what is driving people out to the streets every weekend.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Daniel, thank you.
--:-- Daniel Estrin: You're welcome.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: And that's a first for Monday, September 29th. I'm E. Martinez. And I'm Michelle Martin.
--:-- Host: E. Martinez: NPR has a new newsletter that recommends new podcasts for you. It's run from everything NPR makes and the work of our member stations all around the country. It's called Pod Club, and you can get it now. Click on Newsletters at the top of the NPR.org homepage.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: Today's episode of Up First was edited by Russell Lewis, Dana Farrington, Kate Bartlett, Mohamed Elbardisi, and Alice Wolfley.
--:-- Host: E. Martinez: It was produced by Ziad Batch, Nia Dumas, and Lindsay Taddy.
--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: We get engineering support from Nisha Hainas, and our technical director is Stacey Abbott.
--:-- Host: E. Martinez: Join us again tomorrow.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: This message comes from Michelin. More than a tire company, Michelin is an innovation company, now taking on space, developing an airless wheel for space exploration. Motion for life. More at michelinman.com slash y hyphen Michelin slash innovation.
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--:-- Host: Michelle Martin: That's 50% off your first week by using code NPR or going to cookunity.com slash NPR.
