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--:-- Steve Inskeep: Welcome to Up First from NPR News. I'm Steve Inskeep.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And I'm Leila Fadel.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: President Trump warns House Republicans to accept a proposal for tax and spending changes along with a lot of borrowing. He predicts any Republican who resists would be knocked out, so why are some saying no?
--:-- Leila Fadel: That's right. The president met with House Republicans in the Capitol yesterday, urging them to get behind his massive tax and immigration bill or risk a tax increase.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: I mean, what Republican could vote for that to happen? Because there wouldn't be a Republican much longer. They would get they would be knocked out so fast.
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--:-- Deirdre Walsh: President Trump met with House Republicans in the Capitol yesterday, urging them to get behind his massive tax and immigration bill or risk a tax increase.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: NPR's Deirdre Walsh is at the Capitol and she joins me now. Good morning, Deirdre.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: Good morning, Steve.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So did Trump's pep rally with House Republicans build the support he needs for that bill?
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: He did sway some who praised his sales job, but the president failed to convince a significant block of Republican holdouts.
--:-- Leila Fadel: There are moderates who represent districts with high state and local taxes who want a bigger tax break for their constituents. There are conservatives worried about ballooning deficits and say this bill does not go far enough to slash spending and deal with the deficit.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: The Speaker spent the day and overnight hours trying to negotiate with these factions. And remember, he can only lose three votes, and we already know one member, Tom Massey of Kentucky, is a hard no.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Okay, so did leaders agree to any of these demands to move some of these holdouts? Potentially.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: Overnight, a key committee met to set the parameters to start debate on the House floor, and that panel is still meeting.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The Speaker said when they started around 1 a.m., they were close to a deal but we haven't seen any details yet.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: Leaders are expected to increase the amount of that state and local tax deduction to address the concerns of some moderates they need. Conservatives say there's been some progress on more savings.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: But Layla, it's like whack-a-mole. You agree to one change from one group and it could mean losing support from another group.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: So, Steve, talk about the major components in the bill and what their impact would be.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So the tax cuts are really the central plank in the bill. The bill permanently extends the 2017 tax cuts that are going to expire at the end of December.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: It adds new tax breaks like no tax on overtime, no tax on tips, things that Trump campaigned on. Those tax breaks expire in four years after Trump leaves office.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: The bill has roughly $1.5 trillion in spending cuts, and a big chunk of those come from changes to Medicaid.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: That's the health care program for elderly, low-income, and disabled. It adds work requirements for adults without dependents on Medicaid. It changes eligibility rules that can mean people end up getting removed from the rolls.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Trump said during his visit to the Capitol there wouldn't be any cuts, and the measure is focused on cutting waste, fraud, and abuse.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: But the Congressional Budget Office found that at least 8.6 million people could lose health care coverage due to these changes.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And CBO analysis that came out late last night found out that the poorest, the bottom 10 percent of Americans, would see their household resources drop due to the policy and tax changes in this package, while the top 10 percent would get a bump in income.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And we should also note that the bill makes cuts to food assistance programs, and that could impact millions of children who rely on that program for school lunches.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: If this bill gets through the House, what are the prospects in the Senate? I mean, there are going to be changes in the Senate.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: Senate Majority Leader John Thune said Senate Republicans want to see further spending cuts to reduce the deficit. Other Republicans in the Senate are critical of the Medicaid changes in this House package.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But there's big pressure for both chambers to get to a final deal because those tax cuts expire at the end of December.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And the Treasury Department is going to run out of money to pay its bills this summer. So lawmakers included a $4 trillion increase in the debt ceiling to avoid a default.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: But for right now, House Republican leaders are still negotiating to try to get the votes to get it through the House.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: That's NPR's Deirdre Walsh. Thank you, Deirdre.
--:-- Deirdre Walsh: Thanks, Steve.
--:-- Leila Fadel: South African President Cyril Ramaphosa is set to meet President Trump today at the White House for talks amid deteriorating relations between the two countries.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Yeah, this is interesting. Earlier this year, the Trump administration cut aid to South Africa and expelled the South African ambassador.
--:-- Leila Fadel: In recent days, the U.S. took another step. The president, who has been pushing away refugees from other parts of the world, granted refugee status to white South Africans.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Now the government of the black majority country says it wants a reset.
--:-- Leila Fadel: With me now is reporter Kate Bartlett, who's in Johannesburg. Good morning, Kate.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: Good morning.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Okay, so get us up to speed. What brought this meeting about?
--:-- Kate Bartlett: Basically, for months, Trump has been saying terrible things have been happening in South Africa. He's been repeating right-wing conspiracy theories, claiming without evidence that white Afrikaner farmers are being persecuted and their land confiscated.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: The South African government, the data, and most experts say there's no evidence of that.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: And Ramaphosa hasn't hidden his frustration over Trump's actions. He said last week, "We're the only country on the continent where the colonizers came to stay, and we have never driven them out of our country."
--:-- Leila Fadel: The South African government says the people taking up Trump's refugee offer are simply people who still can't accept apartheid is over.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So Ramaphosa faces an uphill battle and Trump will likely berate South Africa for taking Israel to The Hague over claims of a genocide in its war in Gaza.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: Well, Ramaphosa is a skilled negotiator. He worked alongside Nelson Mandela and was instrumental in the talks that ended apartheid.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Now he needs to salvage the U.S. relationship, which is of huge economic importance to South Africa.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: He might try to appeal to Trump's transactional side, South Africa's rich in minerals like platinum.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: And Ramaphosa is expected to appeal to the U.S.'s interests in countering China's influence in Africa as well.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And he could offer a deal to Trump's South African-born advisor, Elon Musk.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: The billionaire businessman objects to affirmative action laws that he claims prevent him from rolling out his satellite service in South Africa.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: And what do ordinary South Africans think about all this?
--:-- Leila Fadel: Well, South Africans are watching anxiously to see if Ramaphosa is humiliated the way Ukrainian President Zelensky was on his visit to the Oval Office earlier this year.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: And many South Africans, both white and black, are really angry with Trump's attacks on their country.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: I spoke to people at a Johannesburg cafe, including 42-year-old barista Sierra Lowe.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: We all know the genocide narrative is false. They should tell him to stay away from our affairs.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But not in those words, you know, in a nicer way.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Ramaphosa might also want to bring up the one South African Trump does seem to admire, Nelson Mandela.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: He's repeatedly compared himself and his legal problems to Mandela's 27 years in jail for the struggle against apartheid.
--:-- Leila Fadel: That comparison drew anger from Mandela's family.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: That's reporter Kate Bartlett in Johannesburg. Thank you, Kate.
--:-- Kate Bartlett: Thank you.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Elon Musk may not be spending quite so much time at the White House. But his creation, the ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency, keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: A new analysis by NPR found at least 40 agencies and groups that DOGE has tried to cut in recent weeks.
--:-- Leila Fadel: NPR's Stephen Fowler is covering all of this and is online. Hi there, Stephen.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Hi there, Steve.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: So who's getting a knock on the door here?
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Well, the knock is often an email from one of a few DOGE staffers based in the General Services Administration.
--:-- Leila Fadel: They're seeking to learn more about operations and to embed a team within the organization.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Now, some of them have already been effectively dismantled by DOGE, like the Millennium Challenge Corporation.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Some of them have been targeted for elimination by the president in his proposal for next year's budget, like AmeriCorps.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The outreach has been to this constellation of commissions, boards, and entities that are all small and independent.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Well, how have some of these dozens of entities responded?
--:-- Leila Fadel: After the email, in many of these places, DOGE has moved quickly.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: At the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, for example, in less than one week, an email led to a video call, led to an in-person meeting, and now a DOGE team is being onboarded.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: On April 17th alone, DOGE staffers scheduled meetings with officials from the Truman Scholarship Foundation, the Denali Commission, the Office of Navajo and Hopi Indian Relocation, and the U.S. Access Board.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And that's according to two sources not authorized to speak about DOGE's operations.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: I guess we should mention different laws apply to different organizations which themselves are organized differently.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Could they just say no thanks to DOGE's requests?
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Some of them already have because these DOGE folks have also tried to reach out to organizations that aren't government agencies at all like the private nonprofit Vera Institute of Justice.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The independent nonprofit Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Government Accountability Office which is part of the legislative branch.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: And they are also outside of DOGE's purview so they rejected that request from DOGE last week.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: How legal is any of this?
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Well, there are more than a dozen lawsuits that have been filed related to DOGE efforts at these small organizations that say it's not legal.
--:-- Leila Fadel: By and large, these are places that have been created by Congress, many of them non-profits, and nearly all of them do have their funding and functions spelled out by law.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: And some of those cases explicitly limiting the president's power to interact with them.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: That means President Trump can't always go in and fire people and make changes on his own.
--:-- Leila Fadel: In the last week, a judge ordered a halt to DOGE-related shutdowns at the Institute of Museum and Library Services, the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, and the Minority Business Development Agency.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: And this week, a different federal judge found DOGE's takeover of the U.S. Institute of Peace was illegal.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Stephen, what does all of this add to your understanding of what DOGE is doing?
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Well, President Trump has a very clear mission of what a government remade in his image looks like. It's smaller, there's less bureaucracy, and those people and institutions who are left answer directly to him and his viewpoints.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But that's not always what the law allows, and the DOGE MO of act first, ask questions later, has led to plenty of conflicts the last few months and setbacks in achieving that goal.
--:-- Stephen Fowler: Also, for all of the hype about Elon Musk and his role in stepping back from DOGE, the small agency outreach we've seen just illustrates where the real DOGE work is being carried out and that it's still ongoing.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And that's Up First for Wednesday, May 21st. I'm Steve Inskeep.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And I'm Leila Fadel.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Thanks for listening to Up First. You can find more coverage of the stories we discussed today on NPR's Morning Edition.
--:-- Leila Fadel: It's a radio show. I co-host that radio show, which is one of the main reasons you'd want to tune in.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: I get to do it with her, along with A. Martinez and Michelle Martin.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And you can find Morning Edition on your NPR station.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And if you're wondering how to do that, go to stations.npr.org.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Today's episode of Up First was edited by Ryland Barton, Kevin Drew, Brett Neely, Tara Neill, Ally Schweitzer, and Alice Woelfle.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas, and Christopher Thomas.
--:-- Leila Fadel: We get engineering support from Neisha Heinis, and our technical director is David Greenburg.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Join us again tomorrow.
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