--:-- [Theme music fades out]
--:-- Leila Fadel: A quick word before the show. The 2024 election is over, and as a new administration prepares to assume power with promises of major changes to the federal government, it's our job across the entire NPR network to report on what they do with that power.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And that's why we're here, because information is power. Your support makes it possible for us to break down big stories, to fact-check, and to make sure you understand what's going on.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So when you donate today, you make a difference in our ability to do this work tomorrow. If you're already a supporter, we just want to take a moment to say thank you. And if you're not and you value this work, go to donate.npr.org to give. Donate.npr.org. Thank you for your support.
--:-- [Theme music fades in]
--:-- Leila Fadel: Now here's our show. With the election now over, a two-month sprint begins to shape the next administration, and Donald Trump's transition is lagging behind. Can he catch up and avoid the chaos of his last presidential transition?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: I'm Leila Fadel, that's A. Martinez, and this is Up First from NPR News.
--:-- A. Martinez: Trump's campaign promises include expanding oil drilling, replacing the civil service with partisan loyalists, and deporting millions of immigrants he demonizes as criminals. On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program of criminals in the history of America.
--:-- Leila Fadel: What might his first 100 days look like? And nearly four years ago, the House of Representatives impeached Trump for incitement of insurrection after a mob attacked the Capitol. Will he make good on his promise to pardon the January 6th rioters? Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day.
--:-- A. Martinez: This message comes from NPR sponsor Adobe. Introducing the all-new Adobe Acrobat Studio, now with AI-powered PDF spaces. Need to turn 100 pages of market research into five insights with a click? Templates for a sales proposal that'll close that deal? Or an AI specialist to tailor the tone of your market report? You can do all that with the all-new Adobe Acrobat Studio. Learn more at adobe.com slash do that with Acrobat.
--:-- Leila Fadel: This message comes from NPR sponsor AARP. Where do you see your career in 12 years? What are you doing now to help you get there? The sooner you start enhancing your skills, the sooner you'll be ready. That's why AARP has management, finance, and small business reskilling courses, all to help your income live as long as you do. Because the steps you choose to take today will help you love what you do in the future. Learn more at aarp.org slash skills.
--:-- A. Martinez: President-elect Donald Trump has made his first big announcement. He's chosen his campaign manager, Susie Wiles, to be his White House chief of staff. In his victory speech, Trump singled out Wiles for praise and said she's known for working behind the scenes.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Susie likes to stay sort of in the back, let me tell you. The Iceman, we call her the Iceman. And Wiles will be the first woman ever to hold the job. That's one job filled. But there are about 4,000 political positions to fill in any new administration. And there are already questions about whether Trump's transition is on track.
--:-- A. Martinez: NPR senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith is here. So, Tam, it's only been, what, a few days, three days since Trump won. How can the transition possibly be behind?
--:-- Tamara Keith: These plans are supposed to start over the summer well before it's clear which candidate will win. By law, each team is invited to sign formal legal agreements with the GSA, the General Services Administration, to get things rolling. And that gives them access to everything from office space and government email addresses to detailed information about agency operations.
--:-- Leila Fadel: They haven't done it yet. The White House says they're keeping the lines of communication open. And President Biden said yesterday that he has told his team to do what they can to ensure a peaceful and orderly transition. He said, quote, that's what the American people deserve.
--:-- Tamara Keith: A spokesperson for the Trump team says they're still having conversations with the GSA about these agreements. And they said, quote, we will update you once a decision is made.
--:-- Leila Fadel: OK, but how big of a deal is this that the agreements aren't signed yet?
--:-- Tamara Keith: Well, in 2016, the Trump team did sign them. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie spent months building the transition plan for Trump in close coordination with the outgoing Obama administration. And then two days after the election, Christie was fired and all those plans were thrown out.
--:-- A. Martinez: You know, Tam, I remember there were cameras, TV cameras trained on the elevator doors in Trump Tower. They were watching people go in for interviews with Trump. I mean, it was like a TV show, like one of his shows.
--:-- Tamara Keith: Yeah, it was quite the reality show. And there was a long list of people picked for jobs during that period who didn't last very long because it turns out they didn't agree with Trump's vision for the country. Rex Tillerson, a secretary of state, former General James Mattis as defense secretary. But at a lower level, hundreds of political appointments were not made. So there were a lot of Obama holdovers and high-ranking acting positions when Trump took office.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Chris Christie told the Transition Lab podcast that the Trump administration never fully recovered from that rough start. So you had people there who were hostile to the president personally and hostile to his agenda that he had just been elected on. And then he would wonder why he couldn't get things done.
--:-- Tamara Keith: So is history repeating itself here? I spoke with Max Steyer. He heads the Partnership for Public Service, which has assisted past transitions. And he says that this delay sends a very bad signal. The Trump team did not understand the process or the importance of understanding that process and did not respect that process and paid a real price. And I fear that we might see something similar again.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So, Tam, what's the Trump team saying about this?
--:-- Tamara Keith: Well, a week before Trump won, the co-chair of his transition, Howard Lutnick, said they were ready, they have lots of candidates, and it would be completely different than 2016. A campaign advisor tells NPR that the jockeying for jobs in the administration is already intense. Loyalty to Trump and a desire to disrupt Washington are top qualifications this time.
--:-- Leila Fadel: NPR's Tamara Keith.
--:-- A. Martinez: President-elect Donald Trump and his transition team are working vigorously to pick political appointees who will carry out his agenda. He has promised on his first day in office, within the first few hours, in fact, to close the border and more. On day one, I will launch the largest deportation program of criminals in the history of America.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Trump has also promised to take a hatchet to President Biden's climate agenda and supercharge energy exploration. So let's see how feasible this is with NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. So, okay, so Franco, Trump gets sworn in January 20th. What can we expect to see 100 days from then?
--:-- Franco Ordonez: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the border and drilling. You know, he also plans to gut climate subsidies and offer tax breaks to oil and gas producers. He's promising to change the Affordable Care Act and impose big new tariffs on U imports. There's also been a focus on the culture war issues, with Trump planning to ban transgender women in sports and critical race theory in schools.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But basically, Trump wants to return and resume where he left off after his first term in office. Clearly, the top priority is immigration. So as we heard, he's calling for deporting record numbers of immigrants. What might that look like?
--:-- Franco Ordonez: Yeah, I mean, it's really complicated. I mean, there are so many operational and legal challenges here. It would take a huge investment in resources, manpower to deport millions of people. I will note Trump tweaked his language a bit in the last few weeks. As you heard in the clip, he added, quote, criminals. It's the mass deportation of criminals. That is a key distinction that does give him some flexibility.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But he's also planning to invoke a wartime authority. It's called the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to deport foreign nationals without a hearing.
--:-- Franco Ordonez: I spoke with Leon Fresco about this. He was appointed to serve on Trump's Homeland Security Advisory Council in his first administration. You have to show that a specific country invaded or attempted to invade you to cause instability. And so President Trump is going to say that certain countries like Venezuela and others are intentionally authorizing criminal elements to come into the country.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Fresco is a Democrat, and he says Trump is trying to create a, quote, shock and awe type of environment so that people will take matters into their own hands and basically self-deport.
--:-- Franco Ordonez: Now, I keep hearing that Trump won't have the same guardrails this time around. How true is that? I mean, it won't be the same guardrails, but that doesn't mean there won't be any. I mean, he will need congressional approval for some things, such as for tax breaks and make changes to the Affordable Care Act. Republicans did win the Senate, so a lot will depend on who wins the House.
--:-- Leila Fadel: There's also dealing with the government bureaucracy, but his team has experience with that. Loyalty is a big deal to Trump. He hired Susie Wiles as chief of staff, who was his campaign manager. So he's obviously looking for people he trusts.
--:-- Franco Ordonez: And one thing we'll be watching very closely is Trump wants to reclassify tens of thousands of federal workers and turn them into political positions for people who will need, who will be more invested in carrying out his policies.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Yeah, that's who Trump has called the deep state, that stopped or slowed him from carrying out some of his more extreme ideas.
--:-- Franco Ordonez: Yeah, more guardrails. Trump actually did this at the end of his last administration. Biden rescinded it and imposed a rule to make it harder for him to do it again. The reality is any rule that can be made can be rescinded. The question is, how long will it take?
--:-- Leila Fadel: NPR's Franco Ordonez.
--:-- Leila Fadel: It was almost four years ago that a mob of Donald Trump's supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol. Federal authorities have charged more than a thousand people in connection with the January 6th attack. And now Trump is headed back to the White House after promising to pardon the people charged in connection with that attack.
--:-- A. Martinez: NPR justice correspondent Ryan Lucas has covered the January 6th investigation. So, Ryan, let's start with Trump and potential pardons. What has he said about clemency for Capitol rioters?
--:-- Ryan Lucas: Well, first off, for years, Trump has tried to rewrite the history of January 6th. He talks about it as a peaceful day instead of what it actually was, which is a violent attack on the U Capitol by his supporters, an attack that injured more than 140 police officers who were defending the building that day. It was an attack that the FBI director, a Trump appointee, has called domestic terrorism.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Trump, though, has called the people who are facing federal charges for January 6th. He's called them hostages. He's called them political prisoners. And over the past few years, including very much so during the 2024 campaign, Trump has promised pardons for January 6th rioters if he were to win back the presidency. He said that he would absolutely pardon them. And now he's headed back to the White House.
--:-- Ryan Lucas: That federal investigation into the January 6th riots, where does that stand?
--:-- Leila Fadel: Well, look, this is a massive investigation, one of the largest in the history of the Justice Department. It started on the day of the riot, and it is still going on as of today. So far, more than 1,500 people have been charged. Almost 1,000 have pleaded guilty. Many of those are for misdemeanors, but a lot of them are also for violent offenses, things like assaulting police with a deadly weapon.
--:-- Ryan Lucas: Around 200 people have been convicted at trial. That includes members of two far-right extremist groups, the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys. Ten members of those two groups have been convicted at trial of seditious conspiracy, in other words, of opposing the authority of the U.S. government by force.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I know the Justice Department is looking to wind down the special counsel's cases against Donald Trump now that he's now going to be president. Does that affect the DOJ's work against the Capitol rioters?
--:-- Ryan Lucas: So the decision to unwind special counsel Jack Smith's cases against Trump, that stems from a Justice Department policy that says that a sitting president can't face indictment or trial. That policy does not apply to anyone else, full stop.
--:-- Leila Fadel: That said, I did ask the Justice Department whether the potential for mass pardons of January 6th defendants has changed its approach to these cases. The department declined to comment on that. But I will say that prosecutors have been bringing new January 6th cases this week. So it does appear to be business as usual.
--:-- Ryan Lucas: So the defendants then, are they angling for pardons? I got to imagine that probably that's true. They definitely are. They're certainly aware of Trump's promises for pardons and they are angling for them. That goes for nonviolent offenders. It also goes, though, for folks convicted of attacking police and other serious charges.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Stuart Rhodes is an example of this. He is the founder of the Oath Keepers group that I mentioned earlier. Rhodes was convicted by a jury in D.C. of seditious conspiracy and other crimes in connection with January 6th. The judge sentenced him to 18 years in prison, called him an ongoing threat to the country and its democracy.
--:-- Ryan Lucas: Rhodes' trial is one that Trump kept a close eye on, I'm told. Now, Rhodes' attorney, Lee Bright, tells our colleague Kerry Johnson that he's going to personally urge Trump to do the right and honorable thing and pardon Rhodes.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I have asked the Trump campaign whether Trump would pardon rioters convicted of violent crimes or just nonviolent ones. The campaign did not respond.
--:-- Ryan Lucas: NPR's Ryan Lucas.
--:-- [Theme music fades in]
--:-- Leila Fadel: And that's Up First for Friday, November 8th. I'm E. Martinez. And I'm Leila Fadel. And don't forget, Up First airs on the weekends, too. Ayesha Rascoe and Scott Simon have the news. It'll be here in this feed. For your next listen, Consider This from NPR. We here at Up First give you the three big stories of the day. Our Consider This colleagues take a different approach. They dive into a single news story and what it means to you in just 15 minutes. Listen now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
--:-- A. Martinez: Today's episode of Up First was edited by Roberta Rampton, Megan Pratz, Anna Yukhananov, Olivia Hampton, and Jan Johnson. It was produced by Ziad Buchh, Nia Dumas, and Lindsay Totty. We get engineering support from Carleigh Strange. And our technical director is Zac Coleman.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Join us again on Monday.
