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--:-- Leila Fadel: Donald Trump has vowed to prosecute or jail his political rivals if he's elected. He will absolutely make sure his enemies pay for what he perceives to be their crimes. An NPR investigation takes a closer look at these threats.
--:-- A Martinez: I'm Amy Martinez, that's Leila Fadel, and this is Up First from NPR News.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Does the Louisiana law requiring public schools to display the Ten Commandments violate the First Amendment and Supreme Court precedent? Religion is something that is private, and it succeeds best when the government just stays out of that conversation.
--:-- A Martinez: It's a question before a federal court this week. And Russian President Vladimir Putin is hosting a summit of world leaders in the city of Kazan. That's despite the West trying to isolate him over the war in Ukraine.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day.
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--:-- Leila Fadel: To get matched with a therapist, visit BetterHelp.com slash NPR for 10% off your first month.
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--:-- Leila Fadel: With just two weeks until Election Day, former President Donald Trump has been escalating his attacks on his political rivals and what he calls, quote, the enemy within, unquote.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Now, an NPR investigation has found that Trump has made more than 100 threats to investigate, prosecute, jail or otherwise punish his perceived opponents, including private citizens.
--:-- Leila Fadel: NPR's investigative correspondent Tom Dreisbach has been looking into this. Good morning.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Good morning.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So we know former President Trump has talked about, quote, locking people up for a long time. What's new about what you found here?
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Right. And, you know, Trump's allies say, come on, this is just campaign rhetoric. The media is overhyping this.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So we wanted to find out just how often does Trump do this? And we looked at rally speeches, interviews, social media posts just since 2022 when he was preparing for this campaign.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: And that's how we found more than 100 examples. More than 100 examples.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Who exactly is he targeting?
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Well, at the top of the list are his political opponents. He says if he wins on day one, he will appoint a special prosecutor to investigate President Joe Biden and Biden's family.
--:-- Leila Fadel: He says Vice President Kamala Harris should be prosecuted.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: He's reposted calls for former President Barack Obama, former Congresswoman Liz Cheney to face military tribunals.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And then he's also pushed for prosecutions and arrests of people involved in the criminal and civil cases against them, prosecutors, judges, even a courthouse staffer.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: And in one case, he floated the idea of prosecuting a member of the Georgia grand jury that indicted him for election interference.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So this goes well beyond just politicians including private citizens like this juror you just described but also journalists.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: What has Trump said about them?
--:-- Leila Fadel: Well, he said journalists who refuse to give up their sources should go to jail.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: He says CBS and NBC should be investigated and lose their broadcast licenses because he didn't like their news coverage.
--:-- Leila Fadel: He's also attacked people who criticize or protest the Supreme Court.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: This is from a rally this September. These people should be put in jail the way they talk about our judges and our justices trying to get them to sway their vote.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I mean, what you're describing, Tom, is pretty frightening.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: And all of this obviously raises the question, could former President Trump actually do this?
--:-- Leila Fadel: Well, there's been a norm that's generally accepted for decades that the White House does not direct investigations by the Justice Department.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: But it is not the law. And at the end of the day, the president does control the Justice Department.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Of course, there are guardrails. Judges can refuse to sign warrants. They can dismiss charges.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: But investigations alone, legal experts told me, can be terrifying, cost a ton of money in legal bills.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And there's this concern that just the threat of a prosecution can make someone say, if opposing the president gets to be investigated, is it really worth the risk?
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: So a chilling effect there.
--:-- Leila Fadel: What does your reporting tell you about whether Trump would actually take action on these threats?
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Yeah, an analysis from an NYU law professor found a dozen cases from Trump's first term where he pressured the Justice Department to investigate and they did follow through.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And I also talked to multiple people who said they're preparing for the worst case in case Trump wins.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Stephanie Grisham was a press secretary in Trump's White House, but she now says he's unfit for office.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I just know that once he's in office with no reason to worry about reelection and only the most fervent, loyal people surrounding him, that he will absolutely make sure his enemies pay for what he perceives to be their crimes.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: And Grisham told me she's already saving money getting ducks in a row in case he's subjected to, say, an investigation or IRS audit.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Meanwhile, a spokesperson for the Republican Party responded to our reporting by saying that Harris is the threat to democracy.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: That's NPR's Tom Dreisbach. Thanks so much for your reporting, Tom.
--:-- Tom Dreisbach: Thank you.
--:-- Leila Fadel: You can hear a lot more on this story on today's episode of Consider This from NPR.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Find it this afternoon on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
--:-- A Martinez: Louisiana passed a law earlier this year that requires public schools to display the Ten Commandments in every classroom.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The ACLU and several other groups have sued the state to stop the law from taking effect in January because they argue it violates a Supreme Court precedent and the First Amendment.
--:-- A Martinez: Parties met for the first time yesterday in a federal court in Baton Rouge.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Aubrey Juhasz with member station WWNO has been following this case and joins me now. Good morning.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Good morning.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So who are the plaintiffs in this case and what are their attorneys arguing?
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Yeah, the plaintiffs consist of nine Louisiana families. Some are religious. Others aren't.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And their lawyers argue that the children of these families and other children in the state will be harmed if the Ten Commandments are posted in classrooms.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: So the attorneys have asked that the law be blocked while the case makes its way through the courts.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And the state?
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Yeah, the state obviously has larger, larger constitutional arguments.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But yesterday the focus was on whether this case can even move forward.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Attorneys for the state argue plaintiffs don't have a case until the posters go up in January.
--:-- Leila Fadel: They say there's no grounds for allegations of harm until then.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: So they've asked the judge to throw out the suit for that reason.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Okay, so let's take a step back. Let's talk about what the state law that's being contested actually says.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: What does it say about the Ten Commandments and how they're meant to be displayed in public schools?
--:-- Leila Fadel: It's pretty specific. It says the Ten Commandments need to be displayed in large, easily readable font.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: It requires a specific version of the commandments from the King James Bible version, which is a Protestant text.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The law also says posters displaying the commandments have to be at least 11 by 14 inches, though they can be bigger.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: And they have to include a context statement the exact wording of which was included in the law passed by Louisiana Republican legislature.
--:-- Leila Fadel: It several paragraphs but in short says the Ten Commandments quote were a prominent part of American public education for almost three centuries.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Though I should say some historians argue that isn't true.
--:-- Leila Fadel: This is such a closely watched case. A lot of concern around whether it violates this notion of separation of church and state.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Why has it captured the nation's attention in this way?
--:-- Leila Fadel: It's because people are concerned that the Supreme Court could overturn that precedent if a case relating to this law makes its way to them, and that in overturning that precedent, they could take down the wall between church and state in part.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Critics argue the law clearly violates the First Amendment, which protects freedom of religion.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Here's Andrew Perry, an attorney for the plaintiffs with the ACLU of Louisiana.
--:-- Andrew Perry: The premise of the Constitution is that religion is something that is private, and it succeeds best when the government just stays out of that conversation.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The U.S. Supreme Court struck down a similar law to Louisiana's in 1980.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: In that ruling, the court said requiring schools in Kentucky to post the Ten Commandments, quote, had no secular legislative purpose, was plainly religious and therefore unconstitutional.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Now, Louisiana's attorney general argues the state's law is different and constitutional.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: She says it passes a history and tradition test and that it's about teaching morals.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Opponents aren't buying that, though.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: And they say this case is about getting something that's already been decided back to the Supreme Court, which now has a conservative supermajority.
--:-- Leila Fadel: When is the court, the federal court here, expected to make a decision?
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: Yeah, the judge says he'll make a decision by November 15th.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And that'll include, you know, whether he's going to stop the law from taking effect in January.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: If he throws out the suit, plaintiffs can try again once the posters are up.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And attorneys say their case isn't the only legal challenge to this law.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: So even if this case doesn't move forward, it's possible another one will and could eventually make its way to the U.S. Supreme Court.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Aubrey Juhasz is with member station WWNO in New Orleans. Thank you for your reporting, Aubrey.
--:-- Aubrey Juhasz: You're welcome.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The U.S. and its allies often say Russia's unprovoked full-scale invasion of neighboring Ukraine in 2022 led to its international isolation.
--:-- A Martinez: But Russia tells a different story, one that will be on display as President Vladimir Putin hosts leaders from many of the world's fastest developing economies in Russia this week.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Joining us to talk about it is NPR's Charles Maines in Moscow. Welcome.
--:-- Charles Maines: Hi there.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So what is this summit and who's on the guest list?
--:-- Charles Maines: Well, this is the latest incarnation of what was initially known as the BRICS Group of Developing Nations.
--:-- A Martinez: That's an acronym for Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa.
--:-- Leila Fadel: They've since added a plus to the list to show their growing roster, which includes new members such as Iran, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, as of this year.
--:-- Charles Maines: And the group looks to grow even further, with Turkey, Azerbaijan, Malaysia waiting for admission.
--:-- Leila Fadel: All told, the Kremlin says 22 world leaders will be attending, including China's Xi Jinping and India's Narendra Modi.
--:-- Charles Maines: The Kremlin is billing this as the biggest foreign policy summit in Russian history, and they're all coming to Kazan.
--:-- A Martinez: That's the capital of Russia's Republic of Katerstan, where I should add locals have been told basically to stay home, both out of concerns for security and to control the optics of the event.
--:-- Leila Fadel: I mean, 22 world leaders doesn't sound like isolation. So Russian President Vladimir Putin must be feeling pretty good about that.
--:-- Charles Maines: You know, that's a safe bet. The fact that these world leaders are all coming at this moment is a PR coup for Russia.
--:-- Leila Fadel: The Kremlin would argue it's the latest proof, if it needed any more, that Russia is not at all isolated over its invasion of Ukraine, as the West would claim.
--:-- Charles Maines: Even the Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, is in town for this event over the objections of Kiev, I might add.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Meanwhile BRICS nations represent nearly half the world population and increasingly a new world order as Vladimir Putin argued during a speech at a related event last week in Moscow Let listen
--:-- Charles Maines: So here Putin says companies from BRICS countries already dominate key economic industries like energy and agriculture.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And in the not-too-distant future, BRICS nations, he says, will be the drivers of the global economy.
--:-- Charles Maines: Okay, so aside from growing economic might, what else unites these countries?
--:-- Leila Fadel: Well, you know, in the lead up to the summit, Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, was asked something similar.
--:-- Charles Maines: He contrasted BRICS to the G7, the West group of seven leading industrialized economies, but saying that the G7 was a club no one else could ever get an invitation to, whereas BRICS, in Peskov's telling, was a far more democratic institution.
--:-- Leila Fadel: But you're right. I mean, essentially, many of these countries share resentments about the way global wealth and economic power is currently distributed.
--:-- Charles Maines: But the thing is, they approach the solution differently.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Whereas Russia, China, and Iran perhaps see BRICS through this geopolitical lens, a way to take on the West.
--:-- Charles Maines: Others like India and Brazil aren't interested in that same level of antagonism.
--:-- Leila Fadel: They strike a more neutral stance, for example, when it comes to Putin's actions in Ukraine.
--:-- Charles Maines: They basically want to see what BRICS can do for them and to make the world economy more fair and just.
--:-- Leila Fadel: So beyond the symbolism of it all, is there anything concrete expected to come out of the next few days?
--:-- Charles Maines: Well, there are going to be a lot of bilateral meetings between leaders, so I'm sure you'll see a bunch of deals.
--:-- Leila Fadel: Russia and Iran are expected to also sign a strategic partnership agreement that will be closely watched by the West.
--:-- Charles Maines: But if Putin has his way, this conference will make significant progress in one area in particular, ending the dominance of the U.S. dollar.
--:-- Leila Fadel: He wants to see BRICS nations come up with new financial mechanisms that could ultimately sanction proof economies like Russia's from the West.
--:-- Charles Maines: That's NPR's Charles Maines in Moscow. Thank you, Charles.
--:-- Charles Maines: Thank you.
--:-- Leila Fadel: And that's Up First for Tuesday, October 22nd. I'm Leila Fadel. And I'm A Martinez.
--:-- A Martinez: Our co-hosts, Michelle Martin and Steve Inskeep, are in Pennsylvania this week listening to voters.
--:-- Leila Fadel: You can find more of our Morning Edition coverage of The Swing State in the NPR app.
--:-- A Martinez: Just look in the podcast section or on your local NPR station.
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--:-- Leila Fadel: Today's episode of Up First was edited by Barry Hardiman, Susanna Capilouto, Rylan Barton, Lisa Thompson, and Alice Wolfley.
--:-- A Martinez: It was produced by Paige Waterhouse, Nia Dumas, and Katie Klein.
--:-- Leila Fadel: We get engineering support from Andy Huther, and our technical director is Stacey Abbott.
--:-- A Martinez: Join us again tomorrow.
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