RHS 057- John Mason on Why You Must Stop Thinking Like an Insurance Agent

Ryan Hanley: Hello everyone and welcome back to the show. Today we have a really interesting interview with John Mason, who is the founder, president, CEO of Shenango Brokers, a wholesaler here in New York that operates in 24 different states. I've known of Shenango Brokers for as long as I've been writing and doing business in New York as an insurance agent, so 10, 15 years. But just recently, I started working with them because they have a pretty wide set of commercial auto carriers. Commercial auto, as everyone knows, is difficult right now. And in New York, it's particularly difficult as different carriers have started non-renewing all their commercial auto business and getting out of the state. I needed someone to help me because commercial auto is tough.

[Host pauses for a moment]

Ryan Hanley: As we talk about commercial auto, part of it is that commercial auto has a ton of losses and can really destroy your loss ratio. Even though there's good premium, having all that premium on the books with a carrier where you're maybe trying to build up a strong loss ratio and contingency book can be an issue. I needed access and markets that would write the business. It's a very thoughtful conversation. It's something to think about as you're crafting your book and trying to become the most profitable organization you can and finding solid partners to help you write more business. John is just a very dynamic guy. I love the way he thinks about the business. He's been around for a long time. He's done a lot of really interesting things. And I just think you're going to enjoy this. I know I enjoyed it. And I think you're going to love it. But before we get to John, I want to give a big shout out to one of our sponsors, Advisor Evolved.

[Host emphasizes the sponsor's name]

Ryan Hanley: Advisor Evolved is the only choice for insurance websites. If you're using someone else's insurance website, just know that you have made a tactical decision. You've made a conscious decision to use a lesser product. Just know that. And that's okay. It doesn't mean that you're a bad person or that you don't care about your business. And there's a way that you can fix it. Go to AdvisorEvolved.com. Connect with Chris and his team, get yourself an Advisor Evolved website, get quote vids, get all the other gangster products that come with an Advisor Evolved website today.

[Host transitions back to the interview]

Ryan Hanley: Alright, let's get on to John. So, where I want to start is actually towards the end, but I just find it too good. I just love this sentence. So, I was looking over the breakdown of your book, Follow the Money, which is for those listening at home. I had obviously heard your name and we both operate in New York, and I knew about Shenango, but we've never spoken until recently. And then I've been talking to Shenango a little bit for your specialty, commercial auto, because I've been struggling with how rapidly it changes and having the right companies and all that. And long story short, someone sent me a copy of your book. I read it. I loved it. Follow the Money is the name of the book. You can get it on Amazon for everyone who's listening. We'll have it linked up in the show notes. But in the description, you say, over the last 30 years, this street-smart entrepreneur has used unique marketing and management ideas to march into New York City and buy five brokerages, expand his own brokerage network into 20 states while relaxing from his home in the Caribbean. And I just was like, if that is not the rainbow picture of the American dream, I just thought that was like this perfectly written sentence. It was like, okay, so you got to that spot. How the hell did that happen?

John Mason: It was a lot of work. A lot of work. You got to work smart. You got to work hard. I think the key to it is, Ryan, I learned long ago that I'm not an insurance agent. I'm an entrepreneur and a marketer who happens to be in the greatest business in the world. That would be the insurance agent and brokerage business. And I started with this tiny little agency in this little town of about 1,200 people here in the middle of upstate New York. You know, since COVID, I am very grateful to be living here in the middle of nowhere. It's been fantastic. But I go back and forth to my place in St. Croix where I work every day. And I've been working virtually for many years. This was nothing new to us, but it can be done. And agents need to remember that, you know, when they get a license in a state, I don't care if it's New York or Kansas, they're licensed to do business anywhere that that license says they can do business in that state. They're not just bounded by their own hometowns, and you have to remember that. To me, that's one of the ideas that I am so glad is being hopefully completely driven out of the industry with COVID because not that operating in your hometown and being a force in your hometown is a bad thing. But I do think that a lot of agents, and I even find myself sometimes being caught in this, like we become very tunnel vision, you know, with a 50-mile radius around wherever the pin drops on the map, versus thinking bigger about what's possible in our state. And then, I mean, with some of the stuff that the National Producer Network has now, or whatever it is you can get licensed in other states for 150 bucks. Now you're not licensed; it takes 10 minutes. I'm licensed in 24 states, and we're sitting here in this little town, you know, in the middle of nowhere, and we're writing small and medium-sized commercial auto in 24 states, coast to coast.

Ryan Hanley: Yeah. You know, so. Along with many other products, personal and commercial, but, you know, we're doing it from here. Yeah. And I think that's the idea. You know, I love that people want to have roots in their hometown. I think that's a good thing. And I think insurance agencies for a long time have been staples of the local community. But I think unfortunately, because of how easy it is for directs, captives, insuretechs, other independent agents who are more digitally or just marketing-focused to move into that town and create a presence, it's too small. You can't protect the longevity of your business by staying so narrowly focused on such a small geographic region.

John Mason: Absolutely. And you know, I was known for many years as a personal lines guy, and I wrote before I became a wholesaler. I wrote personal lines; I didn't just write a house and car here and there. I was writing home and auto everywhere in New York and Pennsylvania. My office is actually right down the New York, Pennsylvania line. And back in those days, I would use those penny saver newspapers. Today we have social media. It makes it even easier. And you can literally do business with people for personal lines. You want to pick a niche in small commercial lines and then partner with a wholesaler such as myself who's got some interesting products. But you can literally do this in any state that you've got to license it. It's very easy to do. And you can perpetuate yourself and your income quite well if you use some of the other strategies that I've talked about to nurture and retain that book of business.

Ryan Hanley: Yeah, so tell me just a little bit for people who may be unfamiliar. You have kind of a unique story, just in terms of you know, you didn't grow up with a silver spoon in your mouth. Like, you know, you say right in your bio, like you didn't grow up with a silver spoon in your mouth. That means a lot of things to a lot of different people, but like you know, just talk to me a little bit about how, if you're not an insurance agent, which I would agree, I feel oftentimes I feel very similar that it's a, I have to fight myself to get into insurance agent mode, but I feel very comfortable in agency owner mode, if that makes sense. And so, so, so it feels, I think that's one of the things that we initially connected on is that mindset, but I'd love for you to talk through how you realized that.

John Mason: It definitely is a mindset change, Ryan. In fact, that's what's key to it. You have to make a decision one day. And I did. I had gone to a seminar, a weekend-long seminar 20 years ago, and came home and decided I'm going to lock myself away for about a week and start designing the systems and procedures in order for myself to be delegated away. So one of the first things that I did is I just started delegating, and I'd write down anything that I did that somebody else could do. And it's amazing the things that you can get off of your plate. And I got it to the point where, and I realize people listening to this come from various size agencies. So if you're in a one or two-man show, it's going to be different. You know, maybe you can get yourself somebody part-time a couple hours a day or a week or whatever to assist you. But we were a larger agency at that time because we were both retail and we had the wholesale. Now we're strictly wholesale, but I was able to hire a personal assistant and delegated things. We used team leaders within the agency and an operations manager and an accounting manager. The key to it is I think the agency principal has got to gear himself then so that he is the marketer. There's a huge difference between marketing and selling. You know, the marketing is putting the bait on the hook, and the selling is reeling it in. And I'm a marketer. And, you know, you're marketing every day. And I don't care if it's whether you're marketing in a case of an agent to attract new clients. It's also to attract and retain employees, recognition in the community, retain your business. Everything you're doing is always marketing.

Ryan Hanley: I was talking to Nicholas Ayers, and he's an agency owner, and he's a partner in the CRM system that I use in my agency. And we were talking, and he asked me something about the agency, and I just looked at him and I said, you know what, man? I said, at my core, all I really am is a hype man. That's really what I'm the best at, is like getting people hyped up about stuff. Like that's really where I can add the most value to an organization. And you said, write this down. What do I do that someone else could do? What are all those things? And basically, I'd say everything that I do, my skills are duplicatable outside of hype man and, and take that word for whatever you want it to be. But the idea, I think I, I so believe in what you're saying, like this makes so much sense to me. And I feel like it's why so many agents struggle with this sense of, um, almost like disconnect with their agency because they want, you hit it. Yeah. But you just hit it. You say hype man or pitch man. That's kind of what it is. You know, and I don't want to get political, but there are certainly things that could be said in the current environment about knowing how to connect with your audience.

John Mason: So if you're familiar with some of the marketing that I do, probably the highest-paid thing that I do in the course of a day is when I'm writing copy. I understand the things that I can put into a sentence to appeal to my reader. The reason for the first sentence is to get the reader to read the sentence, the second sentence, and so on. So, you know, the agent's job is to bring customers into that agency, just like the restaurant owner's job is to bring people, patrons, into his restaurant, or these times the sidewalk. But your job is to put gas in that engine and then have the systems and procedures in place to service and retain it. So why do you think that acquire, service, and retain it? Because you're not going to make any money if you're sitting there with a pad of applications or your iPad, you know, writing renter's apps yourself.

Ryan Hanley: And so why do you think, where do you think the disconnect is? I mean, I'm in position it's a different way. It doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way. It doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way. They say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it doesn't feel like most agencies make this leap or make it all the way they say this is a huge um bottleneck I think for a lot of agencies is this what we're talking about right here, so why do you think it doesn't feel like I mean I'm in position it's a different way it