--:-- Ryan Hanley: In a crude laboratory in the basement of his home. Hello everyone and welcome back to the show. Today we have a tremendous episode. I'd go so far as to say completely gangster. Kelly Donahoe Pirro from Agency Performance Partners is on.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I love talking to Kelly because she has that East Coast disposition that I just love so much. I love all my brothers and sisters from around the United States, but there's something about that straightforward, no-nonsense mentality of hardcore East Coasters that I just appreciate the hell out of. And we talk fast and we get into a lot of amazing topics. I promise you, you are absolutely going to learn something.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: If you are not aware of Kelly, go to agencyperformancepartners.com. That's agencyperformancepartners.com. You can find her on all the socials. You just need to have Kelly in your ecosystem. Even if you never actually hire her company to come work with yours, even though some of the absolute best in the industry that I know do, you're going to want to just watch her. She does these three-minute videos that she puts on YouTube all the time that are awesome. You just want to be in her ecosystem. You're going to learn something. The way that she approaches specifically the service side of the business, or what is traditionally considered the service side, is nothing short of revolutionary. It's always a pleasure to talk to her. You're going to love this episode.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Before we get there, I want to give an enormous shout out to our sponsor, AgencyVA. That's agencyva.com. If you're looking for a virtual assistant, if you're looking for more horsepower in your business, there is no better solution than AgencyVA. I use their kind of pooled VA solutions, which means I have a VA who helps me with data management. He does some service work. He does certificates, does a lot of different tasks, and he's awesome. His name's Tom, and he helps me with a ton of stuff that would just bog down my day. He works four hours a day, so I have him for half the day, which is great.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I also have an individual, and her name is Helen, and she helps me with the accounting side of my business. She's helping me make sure I keep my books and receipts in order and getting everything together. Agency VA then has, I get like almost like a general manager type person and she kind of pulls it all together and makes sure I'm on task and that I'm getting them everything they need so that they can get their jobs done. It's been a wonderful experience and really helped. When people ask me, I say, you know, Agency VA, the VAs, they're not going to solve all your problems. You still need to know what you're doing and have a process in place. But they provide horsepower that I just don't think you get anywhere else. They ramp up your business and allow you to take the process you have and really drive forward hard. They allow me to do more prospecting, more selling, more relationship stuff, which is what I want to do and what I should be doing. So if you're considering a VA, I think Agency VA is the best solution in the marketplace. Go to agencyva.com today.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: All right, let's get on to Kelly. How's life in New York today?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: It's another day trying to get stuff done. Today's been one of those days where you feel like you're working all day, but I don't know what I've actually achieved by one o'clock. I've gotten so many emails today. It's ridiculous. Normally Fridays are quiet and it's not quiet today. I don't know if there's a delayed reaction because no one knows who's president and no one worked up until now. I'm not sure.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Yeah. I have officially spent too much time thinking about the election in general. I said to my wife, I'm just going to wait until someone tells me what the answer is because I'm not.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: You'll know when it happens.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I'm mad at myself for having spent as many brain cycles as I have thinking about it to this point. It's not even worth it. I don't even spend that much time. I have buddies who literally text, my phone is just constantly vibrating as they update every little thing. I'm like, dude, you're going to drive yourself insane. It's like watching a five-day Super Bowl against your biggest rival.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Yeah. What are you going to do? I voted. I'm not going to one of these polling places and auditing anybody. What am I supposed to do?
--:-- Ryan Hanley: You could probably have some disgust for America for a bit if you wanted to.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Yeah.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I did tweet at Elon Musk and ask him to please solve the voting solution. If there's anybody in the country who can create something that will make it so that we can just vote and not have to go through this. How in 2020, of all the things, you still have them using markers in Michigan with one form and in New York it's a different form with pencils. You're just like, how can this possibly be how we vote today?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: How is it that you can get the results of the voice like real time, but we can't just use their system? Can't we all just call in? You can buy and sell stocks. You can buy bitcoin. You can do anything else in your life online except vote. Can't figure that out. I can't open my phone unless my face is in front of it, but I have to vote with a marker and shove it into some random machine that looks like a fax machine that hopefully gets someplace. It's crazy.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: All I know is I'm not in charge of solving that problem. But I feel like if Trump gets four more years, he may try. Just be like, this is dumb, let's do this. Jeff Bezos, we're all on Amazon. Can't we just vote on Amazon?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: What I don't get is why, to register to vote, you got to go get a picture taken of your face. You walk up and you just go swipe, oh it's you. I vote for this guy or woman, whatever, this human peep, and off you go. This feels like a very solvable problem that people just don't want to solve.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Same thing with term limits. There would be no problems if we had term limits. But all money, it's all money.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Anyone that can understand the technology problems in the world is the insurance industry. Let's put them in charge of solving it.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Let's get that going.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: We still have entire groups of educated individuals sitting in rooms talking about download. We'll get them in charge of solving the voting issues. You still have people using Yahoo email addresses as their business address.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Start with the basics, Kelly. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. Best New York insurance agency at aol.com, killing it.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I'm happy that we're able to do this. I think the last time that we spoke on a podcast was Agency Nation Podcast. That was a while ago. What's going on? I know your world has been changed a little bit. We talked about that a couple weeks ago when we talked off air, in terms of being on site. But outside of the physical challenges of COVID and our imperial overlords telling us where we can and can't go... Sorry, that's okay. I'm sorry all my liberal listeners who hate on me on Twitter, but I just can't help myself.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: There's no problem with you. I love you guys too. They all tend to hate on me on Twitter, so that's why.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That's what Twitter's for. Keep it coming. It boosts my ranking, so just keep hating on me. What's going on? What are you seeing in the space? What are some of the things that agents are coming to you with? I know you get a wide range of "I'm having this problem, can you help me solve it" kind of things. What are some of the things that you're getting? What's going on out there?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: It's kind of interesting. I think that everybody's settling into the idea that this next year probably isn't going to be the same, but it's not going to be a crazy amount different either. As far as schools going open and shutting down, I think we're all kind of like, hey, it is what it is. Let's do something.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: The biggest thing that agencies are coming to me with right now is, we work a lot with personal lines and small commercial agencies. They are starting to feel the impact of probably a decade worth of billions of dollars of marketing to their customer. Things are getting hard for them. Customers that have been with them for 15 years are leaving. We're starting to see slips in loyalty. We're starting to see a burned out staff as well. They keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: What we're seeing is agencies are really looking for a plan, Ryan. How do I get retention? How do I get my staff to stop saying "I'm so busy" all the time? How do we convert inbound calls? People call us for insurance. Not to put it lightly, it's the blocking and tackling. It's not anything fancy. But if you have 10 or 15 staff members, those are 10 or 15 brand ambassadors. If you can invest training in them and get them to be 15 or 20% better, your bottom line grows and the team is happier. Good things start to happen.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: We talked a little bit about this when we talked off air. I want to really dig into the slips and loyalty idea. I always assumed that agents did so well in general, or well enough, that they ignored the blocking and tackling because it's boring and tough. Maybe there's some of that. I have been surprised, now that I'm doing it even as a one person show, how much blocking and tackling there is. How many things you have to manage, how many different systems.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I don't know if you've ever read James Clear's book, Atomic Habits. He talks about cognitive hangover. Basically, when you're thinking about something and then you rapidly change your focus to something else, your IQ actually drops for a period of time as your brain recalibrates. So you're going from accounting to trying to write an inbound call. You're just not as sharp. Then you're going to something else, and by the time you get to that seventh thing, your IQ has dropped like 50 points because your brain isn't wired to change that many times. That has been really eye-opening to me, how demanding that business is if you're not set up properly.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: We've actually looked at it with account managers. Some of them have 78 logins. How are you ever going to know 78 logins? One of the things that we really preach a lot is, and this is a takeaway for all your listeners, if you're in personal lines and you have 10 companies, what's the likelihood your staff knows all the discounts for 10 companies and can keep them straight? Somebody calls in pissed off about their rate. The default is the most time labor intensive thing in the world, which is to reshop somebody, versus pulling out and saying, "Hey, have you thought about usage-based driving? You can put an app in your car. You could go paperless. You could do this." Instead of getting the customer to decline discounts, we go shop them. They call every single year and put us on a hamster wheel.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: It's something as simple as sitting down with your marketing reps and saying, "Tell me all the discounts." So Ryan Hanley calls me up mad about his rate. Perfect. Let's start here. Keeping it simple. A lot of agencies just lack some of the processes and procedures. Nothing we bring to the table is new or rocket science. It's actually kind of interesting. We bring back some really old school theories into agencies because we've gotten so busy checking stuff off our management system. "Check, I did it, I did it, I did it." But no one cares about outcomes anymore.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Until agencies can flip that switch of slow down to speed up. If I take care of Ryan, I fix his policies, I make sure he loves us, he's not going to shop for a couple years. But when I just reshop you and it takes a week because I'm backlogged and I was never given a plan on how to communicate to you or a plan of what the turnaround time standard is in our agency, you've gone off and got four other quotes. I'm now back to fighting with you to keep your policy. That's 10 times more work than just slowing down and talking to you about all the discounts up front. We make a lot more work for ourselves sometimes in agencies.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I believe that. I'll probably say this 10 times during this conversation, but so many aspects of this have been eye-opening. I recently put together a commercial coverage checklist. I started sending it with my apps. It had columns: offered, declined, offered, accepted, didn't offer. Then I actually added a fourth column: discussed but didn't offer. So we actually talked about it, but we didn't offer it. We didn't decline. We just decided that it wasn't something that they needed.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I've only been using it for two weeks. I'm not going to say that this has revolutionized my business. But I was so proud of myself that instead of doing another marketing video or wasting time on some nonsensical email inbox stuff, I took today and created a simple PDF that I can now have in the file. I've only used it twice so far with new accounts. But just having that thing to talk to gave me more confidence. It made the customer feel, I can just tell in the way we were communicating, there was a much more... you can tell we're having this conversation on a Friday afternoon, my brain is not firing. You could tell the customer was more confident in the conversation. We were talking about real tangible things, not these promises that maybe someday if my building burns down you're going to come to my aid. It was like, "Oh yeah, that thing. Okay, I'm cool with you declining that thing right there."
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Two things that you just said. One, you didn't have to work as hard to think through all the things on the fly that you need to talk about. The second thing is you have a skill as a producer that I think a lot of account managers need development in, which is having a conversation on the fly. Account managers are typically honed in and zoned in on transactions. That's how their job's been built. We're trying to push them into experience, relationship. So they would look at that checklist... I'm not saying everybody, so if any account managers are listening, I love you guys, my life is for you guys. But a lot of them would be like, "How many employees do you have? What's your annual payroll?" As opposed to, "First of all, tell me about your business." Producers have a natural gift for gab. Account managers have a natural gift for transactions. You have to teach people how to have those conversations. It's an experience for the client, not an interrogation.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: The other thing that I've been working on, because early on I was struggling. I hadn't sold hardcore sales in a long time. I hadn't sold insurance in a long time. There was this naive and probably ego-driven part of me that was like, "I'll just pick it back up. Five years ago when I sold 10,000 policies for the Murder Group, I'll just snap right back to it." I was really struggling. I've had some moments where I have slowed down. Not that I'm anywhere near where I want to be, but I started saying to myself, "If you do anything in this call, just set some expectations. Just some expectations for what's going to come."
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I'll give you a very tangible way that this has changed for me. I use Neoteric Agent to do video proposals. I have fallen in love with the tool. I'm pushing Grant to make more connections because I really like it. Here's why. When I first started using it, I would just send them this thing. I'd take the information and just randomly send them an email like, "Hey, log in." This is a simple expectation. At the end of my fact finding part of the call, so get to know, gather some facts, and now I'm going to go do my quoting work. At the end of that, I would say, "Here's how I'm going to present this to you. Once I know what my recommendation is for you, or my recommendations if I have a couple options, I'm going to piece them together in this proposal. You'll have high level, you'll have a downloadable piece at the bottom, you'll have a video proposal at top. So you know exactly where my head is when we get back on the phone."
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Nobody wants to get back on the phone anymore. Nobody. They don't want to get back on the phone.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I have changed nothing in the way that I present it, but just by setting the expectation up front that this is what you're going to get, people just send me back and they're like, "Yeah, just sit down. Let's do it." The reason I think this is so powerful, and take Neoteric specifically out of the equation, use any tool or process, is that I don't have to then get back on the phone with them and answer a ton of questions. That was happening when I sent the same proposal without setting expectations. By telling them what was coming, they were completely comfortable and trusting in the process. I don't then have a half hour conversation re-explaining everything again. I'm just processing the business. It's been a game changer.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: We have to remember insurance is a really complicated product. Sometimes we get confused. Then we start looking at, let's say for you, you write commercial. You start taking the contractor, the florist shop owner, whatever you do. Imagine them going in and going all technical with you. You'd be like, "Listen, I just need flowers for my wife." We forget sometimes.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I'm glad that you send a video with it or send some expectations. We're big about just book an appointment, get on the phone with the person. My mom doesn't know what water sewer backup is. She's going to look at one thing and it's the price. She's going to make a decision if she ever talks to you again.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: What's our role as an independent agent, Ryan? I'd love to hear your opinion on this. I say all the time, we're the least convenient way to buy insurance. Straight up, the least convenient way to buy insurance. Our value is when someone comes to us, they're looking for a relationship. When we just fly off an email quote and say, "Let me know if you want to do it," not the way you're doing it with an explanation, but where are we driving our value? What was the difference between what someone could have done as far as quoting online and hitting a button, versus you interrogated them and we sent them a quote and said, "Let me know"? We have to constantly be displaying our value. And we don't.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: We do secret shopper calls. I don't have the stat in front of me, but it is, I think it's 89% of our secret shoppers, the agency they secret shopped didn't explain what an independent agent was. If you're driving by, you go to the grocery store and you walk up to five people and say, "What's an independent agent?" How many people do you think know what it is?
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Not many. Let me ask you this though. How do you define explaining what an independent agent is? Using those words or talking about the process or the value?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Even just saying, "What I'm going to do is shop multiple carriers for you to find the best coverage." They usually use the word "multiple carriers." We're fine. We check that off as yes. But 89% or close to that... Ryan, 33% of my secret shoppers never get a quote. What are we doing?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Actually, let me say this a different way. Keep doing all that. If you're in New York, you should totally do. If you're in Pennsylvania, in New Jersey, all points North and East, just keep operating that same way. Cause Rogue is coming. I'm just kidding. I want all of you to be successful, but not at my time. No, I'm kidding about that too. I want you all to be successful.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That is scary. So what are people doing? They just take the call and they're like, "Oh, you want an auto quote? Okay. What's your birthday and your VIN number? Okay, we'll call you back." That's it?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: They get all the information. They get social security number, driver's license. They get literally everything to quote. My secret shopper has nothing else that they need to give. Then lo and behold, they get up to two weeks to get a quote. We don't submit to the agency our results for two weeks.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That's scary. This is the easiest part of it. I feel like where I go, "All right, here's what I'm going to do for you. I have 15..." Make up a number. Sometimes I say 17, sometimes I say 11, sometimes I say 27. Make up a number. "I have this many carriers." That feels like I can't wait to get to that part because that's where you are starting to show why we're different. I hate the information gathering part. I want to just push a button and go, "Give me all that stuff." That stuff seems easy.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: This is why companies like Plymouth Rock are absolutely dominating and scaring the crap out of all the big guys. With four pieces of information, you can get an auto quote. With two pieces of information, you can get a home quote. Because they make it so that when I'm on the phone with someone, and I'm not just only quoting Plymouth Rock, but when you're on the phone with somebody, you can actually be asking them open-ended questions, joking about the weather. "I'm from upstate. You're from downstate. Ha ha ha. We don't like each other." Stupid things like that. They indoctrinate you to people instead of, "Do you have a spouse? What is your spouse's birthday? What is your third son's name?"
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: It's, "Do you have a trampoline? A pit bull? How old is your roof? Do you have a slide? Do you have a pool with a fence? Yes or no?" You may ask all the questions to get the version of the phone as quick as possible. But the reality is, if you service and sell Ryan, the question is... It's not their fault. No one's been really given a plan on what to do. I feel like there's a big gap of what's a good plan.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: So you've got Ryan Hanley calling in, current client, mad about their rate. You have a new person off the street. I've got 20 open tasks I've got to do today. My email's at 30 unread. The phone's ringing off the hook. What do I do?
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Take the new business.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: In your mind, if you're servicing and selling, you think, "I'm going to keep a current customer happy before I take a long shot." These are the conversations that we're having with people to help clarify. Honestly, just getting people to raise their hand. Just because you're buried doesn't mean that the other 10 people next to you aren't.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Why are they buried in so many tasks? Why do you think that is?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I think a lot of it has to do with we have not embraced things like first call resolution. We have not embraced things like wrapping up. For people that might not know what that is, basically someone calls in, let's just use personal lines. Somebody calls in to change a vehicle. Do it on the phone with a person, start to finish, including your notes. When you hang up that call, you can take the next call that comes in. We need to limit the piles of work to minimal, minimal, minimal.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: We don't train our team how to avoid a reshop. Account managers, for the most part, are people pleasers. I'm not saying that in a bad way. That makes them good and empathetic at their job. But if you're upset about rate, they often think with their own back pocket, not how to defend the rate. They can't defend why we're $200 higher this year. They think, "$200, I have to shop it. I don't know how to have a conversation with Ryan that rate went up $200, $16 a month." I don't know how to have that conversation. It might seem very intuitive and organic to us, but it's not always to the frontline team.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That's just a hard conversation in general to have. Even if you're practiced at it, it's not a comfortable conversation. Even when you know the things to say, it's very valid to say when someone calls you and they're upset about something, even when you know the answer or you feel justified, it's never comfortable. Very few people look forward to it. You're not like, "Yeah, this person's really mad. I can't wait to defend our rate."
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Agencies get tripped up. What they do is they have that rate increase list. A lot of agencies, it flags when it goes up a certain amount. All the staff knows is having these really awkward phone calls. "Hey, Ryan, you weren't thinking about your insurance. You didn't even care about the $16 a month, but now I'm bringing it to your attention." Because I don't know how to explain to you that it went up $16 a month because everyone's texting and driving, and unfortunately you get wrapped up into that. I end up having, "Well, let's talk about, do you want me to look at other companies?" We end up with this huge pile of work.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: We track remarketing hit ratios like a sales closing ratio. Oftentimes agencies are at 30 or 40%. You have to think about the fact that if it takes an hour to do a personal lines shop, start to finish, a lot of that work goes away. When we work with agencies, it goes up to 70%. The number decreases and the hit ratio increases because they're better skilled at defending rate.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Here's another example of why agencies get all racked up. People call in to make payments or come into an office. I'm all EFT and painful, but it still happens. You buy a book of business, whatever happens. Do you realize it probably takes 15 minutes start to finish on a payment, totally wrapped up? Ryan, that's three hours a year on that one client. The person calling in to make a payment is probably a $700 auto policy. You can do the math on what that looks like. We're so busy over servicing our least desirable clients.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I took a check yesterday from a client. He wanted... I honestly am like, after we're done with this conversation, I have to call the carrier and say, "I have a check in my hands for a premium. Do you want me to put this in my trust account and you're going to sweep it? Do you want me to mail it to you? What am I supposed to do with this thing?" When he handed it to me, I don't have a single client that isn't direct bill. I don't have a single client that isn't paying EFT or recurring credit card or paying full. Just give me some sort of thing that I can put into a computer. I never have to touch money. He hands me the check. I go, "Okay, so you're going to pay credit card or you want to do EFT?"
--:-- Ryan Hanley: He goes, no, I want to pay with a check. I go, no, no, EFT is a check. They just auto-draft it. He goes, yeah, yeah, but I like the checks. And I said, no, no, it is a check. It's just the electronic one. Out of your checking account. He goes, yeah, no, I want to pay this way. And I like took it. And in the moment, I think I was so shocked that he was defending paying with a check that I just was like, oh, okay. And I said, I'll figure it out later. And now it's sitting here and I'm like, holy shit, I have a ton of work that I have to do to figure out how to handle this check. I have to figure it out. I don't even know what to do with it. I literally don't know what to do with it.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Yeah.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: So, I mean, it seems easy probably for an agency like yourself, that's everything you can do this new way. But if agencies acquire smaller agencies, they come with this stuff that has to be worked on. Or you know, they have this book of business. There are some states where I was big on it and I kind of got slapped on the wrist. They're like, hey, in our state it's actually illegal for us not to accept all forms of payment. So you can influence, but you can't say no, we don't take cash anymore.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Yeah.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I wonder if New York is one of those states. I don't know the answer to that. Hey, you haven't had to come across it. You took a check. You're in clear in my hands now. All I know is I have money and I need to figure out what to do with it. I'm so mad at myself. I should have just said, "Bro, you're doing EFT. I'm going to move you into the next stage. I'm doing it. I'm going to hold your hand. Everything's going to be good. I'm going to be gentle and kind and we're doing EFT." That's what we're doing. He's paying in full. That's the crazy part. He paid in full with a check and I couldn't convince him to do EFT. He just wouldn't do it.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Hey, you got paid up front. Anytime you can get a hundred percent of cash up front, you're not in a bad situation.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: At this point, I would have taken anything. If he'd handed me pennies, I would have taken them.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: That's probably true.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: So I want to come back to this idea of slips and loyalty. One, I just like the term. And two, you've talked a little bit about it with rates. What are some of the reasons this was one of the first things you brought up? What do you think is spurring this on? That people are maybe shopping more or whatever it is.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I think the owners are starting to feel it. It was always kind of like, "What could this be? Why didn't the staff reshop this? What happened?" What I'm seeing more and more is it's coming up to the owner level where their friends are also becoming a little less loyal. So it's no longer like, "Oh my staff just didn't do this." People can kind of push off a problem until it's like, "Hey, this is happening to my neighbor. Why did my neighbor do this to me? I see him every morning."
--:-- The reality is, especially in personal lines, if you get a quote with Geico or Progressive, they're probably going to kick your rate. It's very rare you're going to beat them for a lot of reasons. I don't have any specific facts, I have the feelings on it. So if they go direct, and here's the thing, say you just decide one day, "I'm just going to shop my insurance." Do you think Progressive gives up on marketing to you? No, they stalk you until you can buy. And it's the second that the agency has something change—a staff member leaves, a rate goes up, a service mistake happens, an expectation wasn't set and was missed—they're like, "Well, let me just go over here. It's easy. It's quick. It's simple. I can switch my insurance. No big deal."
--:-- And because, for a lot of us, we've been selling over the phone now in personal and small commercial, I never met you face to face. What's the likelihood if I bought insurance from you four years ago, Ryan, I remember your name? If agencies haven't been embracing the digital concepts you talk about, they haven't been embracing renewal calls, which we preach. They don't remember you and they don't know you have any other options. They just see the EFT come out of their bank account every month and think that's all you got. In fact, they might not even know how to contact you. Because when I get my renewal, it doesn't say Rogue Risk in big, bold letters with your logo. It says Travelers, which is my carrier. So we have to fight against the fact that we're not doing anything to earn loyalty in a lot of agencies.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I think this is one of the things that, if I'm being honest, has been the most disappointing to me over the last 10 years: the lack of wide-scale adoption. There are many examples today versus 10 years ago of agencies adopting content marketing and social and really reaching out. But wide-scale, broad adoption of even just simple, basic content marketing concepts? Someone asked me the other day, "Where do you get your most business from?" I said, "SEO." They said, "What do you mean?" I said, "I create videos and content and people fill out forms on my website and I write their insurance." And they're like, "Well, how does that work?" And I'm like, "Bro, I've been in the business for seven months. This is simple stuff. You've been in here for 70 years. I've been telling you this for 10 decades." Just simple touches.
--:-- Especially today with how raw it's acceptable to be. These walking videos and simple cell phone things, and all the tools like Bonjoro or Loom that allow you to use these intimate touch points. It's so easy today to give someone a personal digital experience, and we fight it. I'm sure there's some real face value stuff, but why do you think we still haven't adopted it at wide scale? I know there are many.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: There's four reasons agencies don't adopt certain things, and this falls in the same bucket. The first one is time. "I don't have time to deal with that. I've never shot a video. I don't even know what time to budget." So time is one. The next one is staff buy-in. "I can't get my staff to pick up the phone with a smile. How am I ever going to get them on a video?" The next one is overwhelmed. You see it in some of the same Facebook groups. Things shoot around all day long. All you do is feel crappy about all the stuff you're not doing. It's kind of like, "Where do I start?" And the last thing is, "If I do one more thing, my staff is going to walk out the door." They have some trepidation.
--:-- For me, it's not hard to shoot a video. I shoot all my weekly videos in a whole 20 minutes and get it done and send it off to the team because I set that system up. I think it's this apprehension. In insurance, we all want to be freaking rock stars at everything, so we think if we get started... And you've done a lot of great work on this where you said, "Watch my first videos. They're not my proudest moments." You're not even an HD guy.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That's four megapixel video.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I don't think this is any different than any other industry. I know you were super passionate about working out, getting people to go to a gym for the first time. The first thing is overcoming the fear of walking in. What does it look like? What do we do? How do you make it welcoming? I think that's still the same key.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I'll even take it a step back. I could see video being a little wonky if it's not your thing. But when we speak, and I know you speak a lot too, I'll say, "Show of hands, who's just doing email marketing to their customers? Happy birthday, happy Thanksgiving." And literally it's like a third of the people. Something as simple as Constant Contact and MailChimp, which takes nothing in my mind to get up, there's still a big challenge.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I agree. I think very unfortunately, there is still a widespread mentality that my best customers are the customers that don't contact me.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Oh, very much so. The whole "poke the sleeping bear."
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: And my response to that is, $8 billion dollars is being spent poking your client right now. That is something. 10, 15 years ago, okay, I could see that being the norm. But there wasn't a Flo and a Gecko and a Mayhem and a Jake from State Farm then poking your client constantly. So it's great that you don't want to poke the sleeping bear, but they're getting poked by your competition constantly. And they're good at it. It's not just a horrible animated lizard anymore. The thing got a whole backstory and personality. We know how he got in the industry and who his friends are. They probably have more of a connection to the lizard than they do to you. I don't mean that in a shallow way. I mean that literally they have built a narrative and it's a real thing.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Think about Flo. People literally dress as Flo for Halloween. The top Halloween costumes in America have been Flo, in the top 10. Flo, Mayhem, Jake from State Farm. When you were a little kid, you're like, "Man, I want to be an insurance agent for Halloween." No, I want to be a superhero.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: It's so crazy.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I guess I'd say, guys, don't adopt content marketing and SEO. Leave it be. I say that wholly facetiously, because you have to pick a way to get business today. Referrals are not enough. The agencies that I know that are referral-only, hardcore referral-only agencies, they are not doing as well today as they were. I'm not saying that they're dying. I'm also not saying that some of them weren't in the positive. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the years of them hitting their max revenue off this referral-only without doing some sort of content marketing or email marketing, or having referral without driving it, just flipping the lights, referrals come in, they write those referrals, and that's how they do business. They are not doing well right now. Or at least the ones that I've talked to, and I've talked to quite a few.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: In our agency assessment, we've pulled over 1500 agents over the past couple of years. The number one lowest skillset across the board is asking for referrals. So if you hope to go by referrals, what I hear when I hear you say that, Ryan, is that hope is their strategy. "I hope I get enough referrals." It's not like we have a referral program and I have someone hitting the street every day. It's not, "Hey, on every call we have a referral program and we beat the referral drum." It's sort of like a wussy strategy. "I hope enough people call in." So I wouldn't even say that they live off referrals. I think they live off of hope. And hope's not going to get us there anymore. Hope's not going to combat $8 billion.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Yeah. Unfortunately. A wussy strategy. I didn't say that.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Yes, I would agree with you. I would say in general, the ambition of many is being tested right now. And our business just... This is going to sound, people are going to take this... Some people are going to take this... The business is pretty easy in certain regards. In many regards it is very, very difficult. So please don't everyone lose your freaking minds. But there are certain aspects of this business in so much as if you do insurance and you bump into someone and they know you, people are pretty willing to go, "Oh hey Kelly, we've been friends for a while, we go to the same workout place, sure, I'll let you take a look at my stuff." People are fairly open to that. And if you just kind of operate and you're in the community, you can draw business in.
--:-- The problem is you have me and you have other people that are now who don't live anywhere near you, who've probably never even heard of your town. And that's not counting all the directs, all the captives, and all the insurtechs. You have all of us who are now dropping into your town with you. That to me is something that a lot of agents don't think about. They think, "I'm local, I'm okay." I don't know that local exists anymore in the way that it used to exist.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Even if it did, there's still six other competitors in their little local town to crush. The trick I like to play on agents is, all right, you're not picking up what I'm putting down as far as what I think we should do. So let me do this. I'm going to go open an agency in your town, scratch. I'm just going to put a location. I'm going to put it right across the street from you. Are you scared? And then they're like, "Yep." I'm like, "Okay, so that's what we're talking about here." I know a lot of people have different ways of growing, they all have their own philosophies. I'm like, just have a plan. Start with a basic referral program and just tell people about it. You got to start somewhere to have some plan and get some momentum and it all kind of pulls back together. But I don't think we're in the days where you can do nothing anymore. You can't use hope as the strategy.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I wholly agree with you. I was talking to Jason Kilgo the other day who I'm a big fan of. We'll have him on the podcast eventually. He works with us.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That's cool. Yeah, dude. He's great. I love Kilgo.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Great, super great agent, super great dude. He just does mortgage broker referrals. That's his thing. And he gets business other ways, but that's what he does. He wakes up and he thinks about that program and he executes that program. He makes his calls and he set up his marketing program for that program. And that's the thing he does. He doesn't get distracted by all these different things. He doesn't show up going, "Wow, I hope someone calls today." He shows up, he makes his calls, he executes his strategy. And he's had tremendous success in his four years. And that's amazing. If you want to be David Carruthers and prospect middle market commercial leading with workers comp, and that's your thing, also completely amazing.
--:-- I think the point, and I hope that I'm always saying this to put a pin in what I think we're both saying, is that there is no right or wrong strategy necessarily if it works for you, but you have to have a strategy today. If it's paid ads, God bless you. If it's Facebook leads, God bless you. If it's buying aged leads and running drip email marketing campaigns, God bless you. If it's a referral strategy, amazing. If it's drop-ins, that's wonderful. I met a guy the other day who still knocks on doors. Freaking amazing. I mean, God bless him. I would never do it. Still does it. That's awesome. But he has a strategy from four to seven every day. He's out there. Knock, knock, knock.
--:-- My point in saying that is I'm just watching, unfortunately, too many agents use time, staff buy-in, overwhelm, and "I just can't take one more thing on" as an excuse for not having a strategy. At some point, that's going to break down. If it hasn't already.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Yeah, no, I agree with that. I'll throw one more strategy in there. We typically deal with agencies with staff, because that's our niche. You have staff, they're your biggest investment in the agency, your biggest expense is payroll. So you've got these people and no one really has a plan and they're all running around and we're all frustrated with each other. Imagine your people. I did the math this morning with an agency. There was 10 account managers on a call. I'm like, "If you guys just ask once in the morning and once in the afternoon for another line of business, you got to quote half of it and you sold half of it." For the nine people on the call, it would have been 450 policies. I messed up the math. If they take 20 phone calls a day and they told 10 people, they quoted five, they sold half of that, they sold 2.5 policies a day, which is reasonable. It's 450 policies just from a nine person service team. So it's like, you don't even need to grow by doing crazy stuff. Sometimes you can just grow from your current book of business if you're in the position where you have that.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I think that's the key. I've talked about this on the show before. It's so easy to get distracted. You go into IOA or you go into CASA's thing or whatever forum of agents and professionals exist. And look at this thing that we're killing it at. And I'm using this crazy thing. And how about this tool? And you should have this CRM. And all of a sudden it's like a crack addiction. You're like, "Oh wow, my CRM doesn't do that thing." And you start vibrating and you're like, "Maybe I should do the one dollar test." And you're like, "Oh, I'll just do the test." And now you have two CRMs and you're like, "What?"
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I don't know if you saw the post that was in CASA's group. I don't know when it's going to be public, but it was all about what CRM tool to use. Then everybody and their mother starts chiming in. There's some haterade going back and forth. "Well, my tool is better than this tool." Some people chimed in like, "Just figure out what's best for you. Chill. Chill out." It got to the point where I had to drop out because I was like, "I can't spend my whole day on this." Poor Brian, who I've worked with in the past, just trying to figure out what Sierra tools he used, and he got into an insurance agent war battle over "my turf's better than your turf."
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I was never in IOA until I became an agency owner. If you ever want to have some fun in there, you're bored, just post, "Hey, I'm thinking about using Vertafore for my agency management system. What would you suggest?" It's like 500 comments.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I think the productivity when someone posts that, which someone does inevitably every week, the productivity in the industry as a whole just goes... There's just millions of agents banging on the keyboard about why their agency management system is the best and every other agency management system is the worst. I just look at it and I'm like, "This is insane." And I get it. Agency management systems are a big part of your agency and none of them are perfect. So it's easy to have an opinion.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I'd be curious what you think too. The awesome part about social media is it brought us all closer together. Especially during COVID, if we didn't have some of the events we'd all see each other at, and there was no social media, I'd be like, "I don't know. So and so could have sold their agency and no one would have known." But it is kind of interesting to watch. Sometimes I'm looking at social media and I said this to somebody else, "I'm getting so sad because I can't keep up with it all. I'm on the phone with clients. I look up sometime and I'm like, 'Man, people are on here so much all day long.'" Then I feel like I should be doing it more and I kind of get a little bit of imposter syndrome. I'm like, "What am I doing with my life? Why am I not on social media more?"
--:-- It was funny. I said the thing about people hating on me. What's been interesting is since I started the agency, I think it's partially since I started the agency and partially since it came out that I'm a non-Biden supporter. I don't know that I'm even like a real Republican, but I definitely just didn't support him. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Ever since that came out, I get some blowback on the Twitters, which again is perfectly fine. I have no problem with that. But what I think is funny is people be like, "Oh, what are you doing? Why don't you go sell some insurance? What are you doing on here?" And I'm like, "Bro, I've been doing this for a long time. I set everything up in the morning and then I try to stay off it as much as I can. Maybe at lunchtime or when I'm doing something else, I'll jump on real quick." But I agree with you. You have to be very smart about it. And I think the imposter syndrome is very difficult to get past. I have it too. I'll see somebody post something that I think is really cool and I'll be like, "Oh shit. I wish I could create something cool like that."
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Here's what I've ultimately found, and I want to be super tactical for agencies. Here's what works. Do what Kelly said she does. Pick a format. Bang out five to ten videos. Bang out three videos. Bang out more than one video at a time. Package them up and then drip them out over time. Here's what doesn't matter: how amazing your production quality is. It just needs to be over the bar of being easy to watch and easy to hear. That's all it needs to be. If it's easy to watch and you can hear it and you don't have to work to listen to it, everything else about the production quality doesn't matter.
--:-- I literally have a gray screen. I have a templated Adobe thing and a camera that's sitting right here off screen. I just turn the camera on, turn the mic on, turn the light on. I talk into the camera. I turn it off. I turn the camera back on. The light's already on. And I just do that thing three, four, five times. That's why if you go to my YouTube, you'll see every three to five videos is me wearing the same shirt. I've yawned. I've sneezed in the middle of videos. I just keep rolling. I can't take another hit. I'm like, "I can't do it again." Because people don't care.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Here's what people want out of everything: the answer to their question. It's also the idea you're more human.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: There are artists who entertain us. We are not artists. We're insurance agents. That doesn't mean we can't be creative, but we're not artists. We're not paid to make people think bigger about the world. We're paid to solve insurance problems. So be human, but just solve the problem. What question are you answering? Answer the question, move on to the next one. If that one doesn't work, I promise you, if you do a hundred of them, one of them will work. And now you can pay for all the rest.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: You could get on Zoom and record. You don't even need a video camera anymore.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I got overwhelmed. I have a whole video studio in my office and I was like, "I really don't have to set all this stuff up." So I paid a videographer to come and I said, "Can I just pay you to... here's all the stuff. Tell me what to buy." The more high-end stuff. He came, he set it all up. There's little tape marks on the floor and now it's just done. Because I didn't really know what I was doing with lighting.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: I have tape marks on my floor as well. I keep my light in the same exact spot. Everything is in the same exact spot all the time. I don't move it. And I don't have a very big office here. So the "I don't have the right space" isn't a real thing.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: We're talking a lot about video, but my point is you could do this with blog posts. I've said to people before, just talk into your phone, use the voice recorder and just answer questions as if you're talking to someone into your phone. Then get it transcribed and turn them into blog posts. There's so many ways for us to communicate with our customers and talk to them. I know that all these things add something else. Maybe the right answer is don't try to solve these problems until you've solved some of the more blocking and tackling problems that we initially started talking about. Solve those problems first. But understand that this isn't any more complicated than that. When we get to the marketing side of it, it's no more complicated. It's just simple processes and practices and you do them repeatedly. Five of the videos are going to get 10 views. And one of the videos is going to get 10,000 views. And that's the one that people are going to call you on and you'll make your money from that one.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Can we talk about the white elephant in the room of marketing, which is the ROI question? "How do I track the ROI?" I struggle with this because I'm like, "Well, how did you know the ROI of your $12,000 yellow page ad 15 years ago?" You really didn't, but you knew the phone rang and you saw something. Yours was bigger and better than everybody else's, so it must be getting more traction. I think agencies, in order to track the ROI, need to start with actually having goals for their agency. Say you want to get your retention to X, or your closing ratio to Y, or generate X in new business. Then marketing can assist you in getting those goals. But if you're just saying, "I'm doing marketing, what's the ROI?" and it's not connected to a bigger picture... Marketing assists you hitting those goals, but they don't control marketing. A video doesn't control if your team blows up a sales call. Marketing doesn't control if no one responds to a web form on your website.
--:-- I really feel two things on marketing. One, you have to start by finding your dream customer and stop trying to serve everybody. You're never going to do it and you're not going to do it well. There's no way you can tell me how you serve me the best without having some specification. I think agencies need to start with their goals and then back marketing into it. I'm curious what you think.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: I think that's really good. I think the goals is a big part of it because it's going to be 50%. You absolutely can track ROI, but that's never going to tell the whole story of marketing ever. How do you track your producer who has a branded logo polo on at a golf event, who some random person walking by sees the logo, then sees your logo on a Facebook ad, then sees your logo at the Little League field, then Googles and sees your name number three on the list, clicks the Google link and calls you, and you attribute it to the website SEO? How do you track the spend on the ad from the Little League versus the t-shirts that you bought everybody versus the Facebook ad? It's absolutely impossible.
--:-- I've read all the articles on HubSpot and they do probably the best job. There are other tools that do a good job at pixelating as well that are much more expensive. But you can only track so much brand touches. So yes, you should always be tracking last click. By last click, I mean whatever the last touch was. And the first touch: how did they get to you? Whatever that last touch was to you, you should always be tracking that. Always. That's no-brainer. And if you can go second level, that's amazing. So if someone says, "I was referred to you by my mortgage broker," that's great. Who? That would be a second level. "Hey, I saw your banner ad at the Little League." That's amazing. Which Little League? Latham. Okay. Awesome. Try to get that second level.
--:-- But beyond that, those last touches are only going to have so much value unless you're also just doing general brand awareness advertising. And that can be having all your staff... Lauren's, my wife's agency, they have done a tremendous job in the last two years. All their clothes that they wear have "The Murray Group" on them all the time. And they're wearing them. And the mom loves it. They don't think they would wear them today.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Nope.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: They wear them all the time. They constantly wear them. They take pictures of them. They do all kinds of stuff. It's great. It's amazing. How do you track the ROI of that?
--:-- Ryan Hanley: It's impossible. But if someone sees that logo and then they do a Google search for Almighty Home Insurance and the logo is one of the ones that shows up on the first page, their eyes are going to be drawn to the logo that they already recognize. They're never going to be able to track polo shirt ROI, but it absolutely plays a role.
--:-- So to get back to your original thing and why I think you're a hundred percent right is that you have to know what you want to do. "I want to get to 200,000 in premium a month. That's my goal." Okay, great. How am I going to do that? Well, here's my three most high-converting areas. Okay, great. But I'm also going to have to back in some belief. And that's the hard part to sell. And some experimentation. Not everything you do is going to work. 100%.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: YouTube ads that are just brand awareness, not meant for clicks. Facebook ads, little league softball, girls lacrosse banners at the game, sponsoring a local charity. How do you track all that? You can't. You just have to believe. I think we're so programmed to buying leads, right? Like every agency at some point has bought leads. Billy Williams says it best: just admit they suck. They're terrible. They're hard to close. Just embrace it. You paid $7. What did you get for $7? That's one-to-one. But we're in a much different scenario now.
--:-- Honestly, adults need to see the same thing 22 times before they even remember it. So you have to blanket the scenario. And if you're having fun doing it and you're not spending all your money on one thing, you're being short-sighted. Ryan, we have a two-year sales cycle. Somebody meets me today, they might buy from me somewhere in the next two years because I've stayed in touch with them and shared good content. They look at it and think, "I think she can solve my problem." And I'm the only person they call. We close that deal within a week or two. It's not complicated at that point because they come 60% sold.
--:-- If insurance agents would just embrace that... let's be honest, no one likes insurance. Sorry, didn't mean to break your heart, but most people don't like insurance. So if you can become likable, you win.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: That was actually the title of my very first content marketing keynote that I ever got: "Already Sold." Big, awful block letters on a green background, this forest Christmas tree background. I gave that presentation in 2010 in San Francisco to the national Big I young agents. That was my first paid keynote. And the title was "Already Sold" because what you just described is exactly how it happens.
--:-- And I fall prey to this. I don't want anyone to think I'm saying I do these things perfectly. I have all these demons. I struggle with all of them. You see someone you want to work with, you find their email, you send them an email, they don't respond. And you're like, "They're never going to do business with me." And it's like, you have to send a hundred more communications to them. I'm telling myself this every day. I'm like, "Cold email doesn't work." But I sent one email to someone. Who does business with anyone who sends them one email?
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: At least you didn't cold LinkedIn them. That's my least favorite thing. I hate waking up to LinkedIn every morning to 10 people who don't know me that want to sell me something.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: LinkedIn... I think LinkedIn really works for a local "I'd like to meet with you to chat" kind of thing, in a community that you recognize a little bit. But all the sales stuff...
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: Or a referral. Like, "Hey, I talked to Ryan Hanley today. He suggested I reach out. He thought we might have some things in common." I think that's totally cool. I look and I'm like, "Oh, we know people in common. You're legit." But people trying to sell me offshore lead services? I'm like, "Hey Ryan Hanley, are you considered leads?" And then half the words are misspelled. It's like, oh my god.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Or it's like, "I sent you a LinkedIn message three days ago. You have not responded." It's like, yeah, no, I haven't. If I get a message from you and there are seven more messages you have to scroll up to see them all, it's like, oh my god. Don't do that. If there's one thing you take away from this podcast, do not cold LinkedIn people for spam. That is not a strategy either one of us recommends.
--:-- I will say, and I want to be respectful of your time, this has been a tremendous conversation. I had a kid, 26 years old, reach out to me. He's a financial advisor and wanted to meet and talk referral partnership. Normally I'm kind of like, "Yeah, financial advisors are kind of flaky." But what he did was he said, "Ryan, I played on the football team at the University of Rochester. And I see that you went to UR and played baseball. Love to meet with you." Then he gave me the pitch. I said to him in the meeting, "If you hadn't dropped the fact that you went to the U of R, I probably would have blown this message off 100%." But he made a common connection. He had obviously taken a couple extra minutes to figure out who I was. And the pitch wasn't "Let's have a meeting about sending each other business." It was "Hey, if you want to just get to know each other." I thought that was really cool.
--:-- So yeah, it's possible. But like all things, you have to be willing to do a little research and make it personal. The blasting just doesn't work.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: No. And I also think, on everything we're talking about, I feel like in the insurance space there are people who do one thing really well. They do video really awesome, or they do automation really awesome, or they do these one little things really awesome. I still think it's hard to find the people who do all of it, who have a little bit of everything that's really working and have balance.
--:-- I think sometimes we all get tripped up like, "Oh, my videos aren't as good as his or hers." And I just want to say, sometimes you just have to get there and do a little bit of everything. It all works because ultimately what you're looking to accomplish is to grow your agency, not necessarily compete with another insurance agency on the quality of video. There's no prize for crispest video production in insurance. There's no prize.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: There's no Webby awards. I can tell you firsthand, there is literally no prize. I watched Sydney create all those videos for all that time. There were no awards for her. There's nothing else you can get done.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: So I don't know. I just feel like if people can try real hard just to say, "It's about you and your agency. It's not about keeping up with the Joneses." It's about doing something and you start to see it work. How do you get everybody excited about something?
--:-- Ryan Hanley: Well, Kelly, I appreciate your time. I always enjoy talking to you. I learn so much and we have such good conversations. For anyone who is in that two-year block of considering hiring Kelly, I will say that I know a lot of agencies you work with. They are some of the best, and you have taken them from less to more in all cases. I've literally never heard anyone speak negatively about your work. I've only ever heard tremendous praise.
--:-- I think you're almost to one-name status in the insurance industry. They don't even say Kelly Donahoe Pirro anymore. It's just "Kelly." You just know who that is now. I think it's tremendous what you do, and your perspective is awesome. I look forward to sometime in the next two years bringing you in so you can get my staff in line so I don't have to.
--:-- Kelly Donahoe Pirro: It would be an honor and a distinguishment of my official career.
--:-- Ryan Hanley: All right. Well, I wish you nothing but the best. Thank you so much.
--:-- [Electronic music plays]
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