--:-- Asma Khalid: This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To get started today, App Vacations, where your story starts. Trial today at greenlight.com slash iHeart. That's greenlight.com slash iHeart.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Hey there, I'm Asma Khalid. And I'm Tristan Redman. And we're here with a new weekly bonus for you from the Global Story podcast.
--:-- Tristan Redman: The world order is shifting. Old alliances are fraying and new ones are emerging. Some of this turbulence can be traced to decisions made in the United States. But the U.S. isn't just a cause of the upheaval. Its politics are also a symptom of it.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Every day we focus on one story, looking at how America and the world shape each other. So we hope you enjoy this episode. And to find more of our show, just search for The Global Story, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
--:-- Tristan Redman: President Trump's in London today. He had a big royal to-do yesterday. He met the king. And today he's meeting the British Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, somebody he's quite fond of.
--:-- Asma Khalid: I like your Prime Minister. He's slightly more liberal than I am, as you've probably heard. But he's a good man who got a trade deal done. A good man.
--:-- Tristan Redman: But there is one big issue that's become a sticking point for these strange bedfellows. The British government seems to be cracking down on social media posts, people being arrested for tweets.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Just wondering how concerning that is to you, Mr. President.
--:-- Tristan Redman: I will just say that in terms of UK, strange things are happening over there. They are cracking down, and surprisingly so.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And I've spoken to the Prime Minister. Free speech in the United Kingdom has become a hot-button rallying cry among conservatives in the United States.
--:-- Tristan Redman: In Britain, free speech, I fear, is in retreat. From Vice President J.D. Vance to Elon Musk. My appeal is to British common sense, which is to look carefully around you and say, if this continues, what world will you be living in?
--:-- Asma Khalid: To Republican congressmen. We're concerned about the attacks on free expression in Europe, the chilling effect it all has on speech around the world, including here in America.
--:-- Tristan Redman: From the BBC, I'm Tristan Redman in London. And I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And today on The Global Story, why have conservatives in America become so obsessed with free speech in the ocean away, especially when a crackdown on speech is kicking off here at home?
--:-- Tristan Redman: We've been wanting to do an episode on the American obsession with free speech in the United Kingdom. You know, so we were planning to turn to our BBC colleague to talk about this all ahead of President Trump's state visit.
--:-- Asma Khalid: We, in fact, are going to talk to him in this episode. But I think it's worth putting all of this debate around free speech in the context of the wild moment that we are living in here in the United States.
--:-- Tristan Redman: Because I do think this whole conversation has really turned on its head in the aftermath of the murder of Charlie Kirk.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And Tristan, I just want to talk you through exactly what has been happening around the free speech debates here in the U.S. in the last couple of days.
--:-- J.D. Vance: On Monday, the vice president, J.D. Vance, went on Charlie Kirk's podcast. Filling in for somebody who cannot be filled in for, but I'm going to try to do my best.
--:-- Asma Khalid: My dear friend, the great Charlie Kirk. He, in fact, hosted the podcast that day.
--:-- J.D. Vance: When you see someone celebrating Charlie's murder, call them out in hell. Call their employer. We don't believe in political violence, but we do believe in civility. And there is no civility in the celebration of political assassination.
--:-- Asma Khalid: You know, employers in the U.S., they can fire you for anything. I mean, hey, BBC could fire me if I say something and I go rogue.
--:-- Tristan Redman: But what he was doing and what felt very unusual was, you know, he's the vice president of the United States. And he seemed to be encouraging a sort of witch hunt. Call out your neighbors, call out your friends for speech that is deemed uncomfortable in this moment.
--:-- Asma Khalid: But not actually legislating against it, almost privatizing the responsibility to do something about it, calling on employers to help with it. Is that right?
--:-- Tristan Redman: And Tristan, the truth of the matter is, yes, like I, too, don't want political violence. Nobody wants political violence here in the United States as an American.
--:-- J.D. Vance: But the reality is that the First Amendment protects civil speech and uncivil speech. We are not in the business of inviting people to visit our country who are going to be involved in negative and destructive behavior.
--:-- Asma Khalid: It's not the only thing that's been said. We should not be giving visas to people who are going to come to the United States and do things like celebrate the murder, the execution, the assassination of a political figure.
--:-- Tristan Redman: That same day we saw the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, say that the administration will revoke the visas of foreign visitors who are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death. And if they're already here, we should be revoking their visa.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Look, what we've seen under this administration is that immigrants, people who are here on green cards, do not have the same rights that U.S. citizens have.
--:-- Tristan Redman: But he made this very clear that this is a type of thing that they are looking into.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And then one of the things that raised perhaps the biggest alarm bells here in the U.S. was when we heard the Attorney General Pam Bondi.
--:-- Pam Bondi: She went on a podcast hosted by a former Trump administration official, Katie Miller, who, by the way, also happens to be Stephen Miller's wife, very top Trump administration official.
--:-- Asma Khalid: You know, I already texted with Harmeet Dillon this morning about an Office Depot that refused to print posters of Charlie for a vigil. They can't do that in the world in which we live. Can't do it.
--:-- Tristan Redman: And you're going to be held accountable and we're going to publicly shame you, too.
--:-- Asma Khalid: I saw Office Depot said they fired one of the three people who worked there. I think all three should have been terminated. And we should investigate.
--:-- Pam Bondi: Agree. Office Depot.
--:-- Tristan Redman: On the podcast that day, she said there is free speech and then there's hate speech. There's free speech and then there's hate speech. And there is no place, especially now, especially after what happened to Charlie in our society.
--:-- Asma Khalid: That sounds actually like quite a European dynamic because that's how it would be seen over here. I mean, it went viral and you saw free speech advocates really raising alarm bells about what does this mean?
--:-- Tristan Redman: Because historically, that's just historically not how free speech and the First Amendment has been interpreted here.
--:-- Pam Bondi: She then tried to clear up her comments, posted on social media that she's referring to hate speech that crosses the line into threats of violence and that that is not protected by the First Amendment.
--:-- Asma Khalid: The U.S. essentially has a kind of free speech absolutist approach. Is that right?
--:-- Tristan Redman: And this would be dialing that back.
--:-- Pam Bondi: We believe that we have a purist approach Yeah we do believe that But you know I would say beyond the response that we are seeing to the horrific murder of Charlie Kirk there have been a lot of examples over the last several months in this Trump administration in which we have seen the president crack down on opponents
--:-- Asma Khalid: You know, you've seen people picked off the street. I'm thinking of, for example, that Tufts University student in Massachusetts who was picked up after writing an op-ed that was pro-Palestinian.
--:-- Tristan Redman: You've seen a crackdown, a systematic crackdown on a number of universities.
--:-- Asma Khalid: You've seen the Trump administration target what they see as ideologically driven language at the Smithsonian museums.
--:-- Tristan Redman: And to many folks, this is all viewed as censorship.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Well, I mean, I'm super interested by this because obviously in the United States, there is this idea that there is a free speech problem in Europe.
--:-- Tristan Redman: And now we have this free speech kind of firestorm brewing in the United States just when Trump is over here.
--:-- Asma Khalid: I mean, the timing is kind of extraordinary.
--:-- Tristan Redman: I mean, to that point, Tristan, I think all of this heightens the strangeness of the Trump administration's obsession with free speech in the United Kingdom.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that is, in fact, what we are going to be getting into with our colleague Mike Wendling.
--:-- Mike Wendling: He's been covering this all for the BBC.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Mike, it feels recently like the issue of free speech in Britain has really become kind of a touchstone in the United States, particularly amongst in right-wing circles.
--:-- Mike Wendling: The first time all of this landed on my radar was much earlier this year when J.D. Vance made his first trip to Europe as vice president.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Well, thank you. And thanks to all the gathered delegates.
--:-- Mike Wendling: So J.D. Vance came to the Munich Security Conference, a big annual conference.
--:-- Tristan Redman: The threat that I worry the most about vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia, it's not China, it's not any other external actor. And what I worry about is the threat from within.
--:-- Asma Khalid: As part of his speech, he really castigated American allies about free speech. And across Europe, free speech, I fear, is in retreat.
--:-- Mike Wendling: One of the cases that he brought up and that he mentioned happened outside of an abortion clinic. A little over two years ago, the British government charged Adam Smith Conner with the heinous crime of standing 50 meters from an abortion clinic and silently praying for three minutes.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And I think a lot of people were surprised to learn that the vice president would know about something that happened in a very local court in the UK.
--:-- Mike Wendling: But this should not be surprising at all, to be honest, because this is the kind of thing that J.D. Vance and other people will seize upon as examples of the British government and how they are clamping down on free speech.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Was there an example of something that really galvanized the American right just in the last several months over the course of the last year that you think gave this movement new attention?
--:-- Mike Wendling: Yeah. So there's a few cases that have really touched a nerve amongst the right in the U.S. Last summer here in the U.K.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Now, though, to South Boughton, hundreds of people have attended a vigil last night to pay tribute to the three girls who were killed there in a knife attack at a children's dance workshop.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Three young girls who were attending a Taylor Swift dance class and somebody came in and went on a stabbing spree.
--:-- Asma Khalid: In the wake of that, disinformation and misinformation circulated about the identity of the attacker. And the blame in many quarters fell on migrants.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Just hours later, violent clashes broke out close to where the girls were stabbed to death. 39 police officers were injured, with 27 needing hospital treatment.
--:-- Asma Khalid: There were riots and protests outside of hotels and places where migrants are being housed by the UK government.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Some of these protests started as peaceful protests, but then there was a number of attempted arson attacks with people sort of throwing bottles and trying to light hotels on fire and clashes with police in various towns all around the country.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Now, there was also police action against people who were posting things online.
--:-- Mike Wendling: And I'll point out just one particular case that really energized people here in the UK and the US, a woman named Lucy Connolly.
--:-- Asma Khalid: She was sentenced to 31 months in prison for posting something on Twitter on X.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Her post read, mass deportation now. Set fire to all the bleep hotels full of bleeps for all I care. If that makes me racist, so be it.
--:-- Asma Khalid: She was visited by police and she was arrested. She claims that she gave an apology and she deleted the tweet.
--:-- Mike Wendling: It was viewed 300,000 times. She thought that was probably a mistake, wasn't it? I let my anger get in the way.
--:-- Asma Khalid: She deleted it. But the judge said her message met the legal definition of inciting violence.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Mike, was there causation between her tweet and what happened? Or did she put this online as things were already bubbling up in the atmosphere?
--:-- Asma Khalid: Things were already bubbling up in the atmosphere. And there's no real proof that what Lucy Connolly put online convinced anybody to go out and commit an arson attack or commit violence against a migrant or a police officer.
--:-- Mike Wendling: There's no causal link there. But prosecutors under British law did not have to prove that.
--:-- Asma Khalid: The judge in the Lucy Connolly case referred to this in his sentencing comments as well.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Lucy Connolly, you pleaded guilty to the offence of distributing material with the intention of stirring up racial hatred.
--:-- Asma Khalid: He said, you encouraged activity which threatened or endangered life.
--:-- Mike Wendling: In relation to harm, it's again agreed correctly that what you did encouraged activity which threatened or endangered life and therefore falls within category one.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that is enough to get a stiff sentence in Britain in a situation like that. 31 months is a long time. 31 months is definitely a serious sentence in the British system.
--:-- Mike Wendling: And this became a big thing in the United States. You had Elon Musk tweeting about it all the time. You had a lot of right-wing influencers who were up in arms about people being visited by the police in the midst of this civil disorder for messages they post online.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And I will say, American to American here, Mike, I genuinely do not understand what the free speech laws in the United Kingdom are and how an arrest like this can happen, because I don't think it makes sense to a lot of Americans and not just Americans who are conservative.
--:-- Mike Wendling: It seems to run so counter to our perceptions around free expression, given the First Amendment.
--:-- Asma Khalid: So how exactly do the United Kingdom and the U.S. differ around this? Because we've been seeing as kindred spirits on this issue.
--:-- Mike Wendling: There is no First Amendment. There is no sort of written rule that's set in stone that guarantees freedom of speech.
--:-- Asma Khalid: It's enshrined in law to a degree. But when it comes to specifically the question of violence and inciting violence, British law is very different than the U.S.
--:-- Mike Wendling: And let me explain it like this, because the guiding law in the United States comes from a 1969 case called Brandenburg versus Ohio.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Clarence Brandenburg, he was a Ku Klux Klan leader, and he made a speech and he burnt a cross and he was arrested for inciting violence.
--:-- Mike Wendling: But when his case reached the Supreme Court, they threw out the conviction because they said that speech is only illegal if it's directed to or inciting or producing imminent lawless action.
--:-- Asma Khalid: So the word imminent is really important in that decision.
--:-- Mike Wendling: And there was another qualification there that said that the speech would have to be likely to incite or produce some violence.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And in the UK there nothing about it being imminent or being likely to cause violence
--:-- Mike Wendling: It simply has to be calling for violence against perhaps certain protected groups or against a particular person
--:-- Asma Khalid: So there is no burden of proof on a prosecutor to say we can show that your tweet resulted in or was likely to result in any violence
--:-- Mike Wendling: Coming up next, how to square this obsession with free speech in Britain with what's going on at home in the U.S.
--:-- [Apple Vacations ad]
--:-- Asma Khalid: According to a nationwide survey conducted by GeneSight, nearly 9 in 10 Americans who've been diagnosed with depression or anxiety believe that mental health medications are somewhat or very effective.
--:-- Tristan Redman: However, despite that belief, more than half of those individuals say they have avoided taking medication due to concerns about potential side effects.
--:-- Asma Khalid: That's why Dr. Whitney Brown, a family and psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner based in Alabama, often recommends genetic testing to our patients as part of their treatment journey.
--:-- Dr. Whitney Brown: As part of my treatment plan, I offer the GeneSight test, which analyzes how a patient's genes may influence how they metabolize or respond to certain mental health medications.
--:-- Asma Khalid: It gives me insights and takes out some of the guesswork that can be associated with prescribing them.
--:-- Tristan Redman: If you or someone you love is facing challenges with depression or anxiety, talk to your doctor about how genetic testing may help.
--:-- Asma Khalid: To learn more, visit GeneSight.com. That's GeneSight.com.
--:-- Asma Khalid: There's also been recently the story of the arrest of Graham Linehan.
--:-- Tristan Redman: And I don't fully understand that story, how it became came to be such a kind of reference point and why it's taken off.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Can you talk us through what actually happened when Graham Linehan was arrested this month, please?
--:-- Asma Khalid: Also, who exactly is he? Because I feel like I've only heard of him in the context of this arrest. I don't think a lot of us even know who exactly he is.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Sure. Well, Graham Linehan is a comedian, a comedy writer, and he really became famous many years ago for writing a show called Father Ted.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Dougal, there were Chinese people there. All right, yeah. Dougal, I wouldn't have done a Chinaman impression if I'd known there was going to be a Chinaman there to see me doing a Chinaman impression. Why not, Ted?
--:-- Mike Wendling: Certainly not politically correct and a huge hit on British television in the 1990s.
--:-- Asma Khalid: More recently, though, he's turned into an anti-transgender activist.
--:-- Mike Wendling: Probably the second most popular figure involved in this anti-transgender activism, the first being J.K. Rowling.
--:-- Asma Khalid: So he got off a plane at Heathrow Airport, and he was met there by five armed police officers, which is very rare, actually.
--:-- Mike Wendling: It's rare for police officers in Britain to be armed in the first place.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And to meet a celebrity coming off of an airplane in that kind of manner is part of the reason why this has attracted so much attention.
--:-- Mike Wendling: It's highly unusual. And he was arrested for some comments that he made earlier in the year online, including one in which he said that anybody who sees a transgender woman in a female-only space should make a scene, call the cops, and paraphrasing here, punch him in the you-know-whats.
--:-- Asma Khalid: It was that, as well as other messages, we believe, that led to this arrest.
--:-- Mike Wendling: I didn't know a whole lot about Graham Linehan. And the only ways in which I have heard about him have largely been through American conservatives, Republicans who have embraced and championed his cause because they see it as a real violation of free speech.
--:-- Asma Khalid: In the story that got some attention the other week here in the United States, though, is that the conservative lawmaker, strong, loyal ally to President Trump, Jim Jordan, congressman, he invited Nigel Farage to address a congressional hearing all about Europe's purported threats to free speech.
--:-- Nigel Farage: Thank you, Chairman Jordan, for inviting me.
--:-- Asma Khalid: J.D. Vance did us all a service at the Munich Security Conference back in February this year. He really got this debate up and running, and it's a vital one.
--:-- Nigel Farage: This has all been going wrong now for a couple of decades.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Nigel Farage is the leader of the Reform Party.
--:-- Nigel Farage: It's a party that is a right-wing party to the right of the Conservative Party, which has traditionally been the main right-wing party in the UK.
--:-- Asma Khalid: So I've come today to be a klaxon to say to you, don't allow piece by piece this to happen here in America.
--:-- Nigel Farage: Nigel Farage was also at the forefront of campaigns, for instance, to leave the European Union, Brexit.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And if you look at the betting odds currently, he's possibly the favourite to be next prime minister.
--:-- Nigel Farage: There's a long way to a general election, but through controversy over many issues, immigration and free speech included, he's gained popularity.
--:-- Asma Khalid: So Farage is actually aboard this train.
--:-- Nigel Farage: You will be doing us and yourselves and all freedom-loving people a favour if your politicians and your businesses said to the British government, you've simply got this wrong.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Democrats in Congress, when he appeared in that hearing, said, you must be crazy if you're going to compare the United Kingdom to a totalitarian state.
--:-- Asma Khalid: You know, Mike, every year the U.S. State Department releases an annual human rights report, and the most recent one they released this summer specifically criticized the United Kingdom for restrictions on freedom of expression.
--:-- Mike Wendling: And it cited grievous examples of government censorship
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that certainly how the Trump administration sees it
--:-- Mike Wendling: And there are a number of other Americans who would agree with that assessment as well
--:-- Asma Khalid: Absolutely
--:-- Mike Wendling: And there is clearly a line that the U government driven by the Trump administration is taking here
--:-- Asma Khalid: They are concerned about free speech
--:-- Mike Wendling: You can see it in the comments by J.D. Vance
--:-- Asma Khalid: You can see it by the comments by the U.S. State Department
--:-- Mike Wendling: I'm sure that later this week, Donald Trump will be meeting with Keir Starmer, the prime minister
--:-- Asma Khalid: And I'm sure that at some point, perhaps not in front of the cameras, they'll be talking about free speech and the limits of it
--:-- Mike Wendling: Now, the prime minister has in the past said that he doesn't see cases like Graham Linehan's case as being free speech issues, more about inciting violence and public order issues
--:-- Asma Khalid: But certainly the Trump administration does not agree with that perspective
--:-- Mike Wendling: And it's become something of an issue between the two governments
--:-- Asma Khalid: You know, I think it's worth pointing out that as much as the MAGA right has taken issue with the United Kingdom's interpretation of free speech
--:-- Mike Wendling: You know, here at home, a number of Democrats and others, frankly, have criticized the Trump administration for an unprecedented crackdown of free speech
--:-- Asma Khalid: And it seems, I would argue to many here in the U.S., that the Trump administration seems obsessed with the idea of free speech, only speech, though, that agrees with their worldview
--:-- Mike Wendling: And they are actually okay, content and embracing the idea of cracking down on free speech that is uncomfortable with their worldview
--:-- Asma Khalid: It is ironic, and people have argued with some justification that it is hypocritical
--:-- Mike Wendling: If you say that you're in favor of free speech, you need to be in favor of free speech that you don't like
--:-- Asma Khalid: And you've listed a number of examples there where clearly there is not a consistency in the Trump administration policy about a blanket promotion of free speech
--:-- Mike Wendling: In the UK context, I think there's a very interesting example
--:-- Asma Khalid: So under the UK's terrorism laws, they're able to prescribe organizations and prevent people from publicly affiliating or expressing support for their organizations, right?
--:-- Mike Wendling: And a very controversial organization that has been controversially put on that list, Palestine Action, right?
--:-- Asma Khalid: Well-known activists for, amongst other things, they broke in and vandalized a Royal Air Force base.
--:-- Mike Wendling: And that seems to be the event that has put them onto the terrorist list.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Hundreds of people have since been arrested in the United Kingdom simply for saying that they support that organization, simply for making the statement, I support Palestine action, right?
--:-- Mike Wendling: And clearly, they would not be arrested in the United States
--:-- Asma Khalid: What I'm hearing from you is that in Britain right now, there are allegations from people on the right who are saying that people are being arrested by overbearing police for supposed free speech violations
--:-- Mike Wendling: And at the same time, there are people on the left who are saying people on their side are also being arrested
--:-- Asma Khalid: For example, you know, members of this group, Palestine action
--:-- Mike Wendling: More to the point, the right wing in the United States is not at all exercised by Palestine action, right?
--:-- Asma Khalid: Clearly, that's a free speech issue
--:-- Mike Wendling: Now, the government of the UK will call it a terrorism issue
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that's a separate debate
--:-- Mike Wendling: However, we do not hear the Vice President of the United States saying, you know, it's outrageous that people simply for saying that they support this organization are being arrested and prosecuted
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that's the difference
--:-- Mike Wendling: Because the key thing there is that they do not agree with the views of Palestine action
--:-- Mike Wendling: There's very few sort of pure free speech advocates
--:-- Asma Khalid: I wouldn't sort of say that that's a view that's confined to the right
--:-- Mike Wendling: Clearly, people on the left are also perhaps not as worked up about Graham Linehan as they are about Palestine action
--:-- Asma Khalid: What I'm taking from our conversation is that free speech, the free speech debate, to some extent, is it's all in the eye of the beholder
--:-- Mike Wendling: It's much easier to crack down on someone's free speech if you don't agree with them politically
--:-- Asma Khalid: Is that a fair assessment?
--:-- Mike Wendling: Exactly, exactly
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that applies as much in the United States as it does in the UK?
--:-- Mike Wendling: Absolutely, absolutely
--:-- Asma Khalid: And the reason why people are so excited in the US about the UK has to do more with their own views, particularly about American politics and American free speech, rather than the facts that are on the ground here in the UK.
--:-- Mike Wendling: I mean, one of the things that occurs to me when I look at all this is that these are all events that we've spoken about today, which are occurring in the United Kingdom.
--:-- Asma Khalid: They somehow reach the ears via social media of influential people in the United States.
--:-- Mike Wendling: They pass through a kind of US social media filter, and then they come back to the United Kingdom.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And then they land in the United Kingdom in a slightly different form than the form they had when they first went over to the United States.
--:-- Mike Wendling: It's almost like a kind of amplification loop
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that the way the United States perceives these events then changes the influence that they have on the ground in the United Kingdom.
--:-- Mike Wendling: I just wonder what you thought about that
--:-- Asma Khalid: There is no separating something that happens in a small village in the UK from what the Vice President of the United States is saying, right?
--:-- Mike Wendling: So this stuff is bouncing back and forth and it is certainly shaping the right in the UK
--:-- Asma Khalid: It's very difficult to sort of say you know the the free speech idea ends at a border
--:-- Mike Wendling: Thank you so much Mike. We really appreciate you joining us on the show.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Thanks when Trump and Starmer meet today, it seems like free speech will likely come up in some format.
--:-- Tristan Redman: But I think in the context of everything that has happened in the United States, President Trump's standing on this issue is a whole lot murkier.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And I wonder too whether in fact he actually even has the credibility amongst the Brits to be bringing this up, given the coordinated crackdowns on free speech, particularly on the speech of people he disagrees with.
--:-- Tristan Redman: It seems like the Brits might not find him to be the most reliable narrator to be pushing back against the UK's perceived threats on free speech.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Well, Asma, I feel like there's another possible way that this plays out, which would be in some ways the most British way of all, which is when you have a guest over, like Donald Trump in this case, and there's something uncomfortable that is unsaid between you, the most British thing of all is just to say nothing and pretend it's not there.
--:-- Tristan Redman: So I wonder if that might be what happens.
--:-- Asma Khalid: I guess we'll see.
--:-- Tristan Redman: That is it for today's episode of The Global Story. Thank you all for listening.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And we'll talk to you again tomorrow.
--:-- Tristan Redman: Cheerio.
--:-- Asma Khalid: America is changing. And so is the world. But what's happening in America isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.
--:-- Tristan Redman: I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, D.C. I'm Tristan Redman in London. And this is The Global Story.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Every weekday, we'll bring you a story from this intersection, where the world and America meet.
--:-- Tristan Redman: Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.
