--:-- [Theme music fades out]
--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire, I'm John Bickley, Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Wire, and I'm here with Georgia Howe.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks for having me, John.
--:-- John Bickley: Today, we're going to do a deep dive on the Afghanistan withdrawal and the new book that sheds light on what went wrong. Georgia, can you give us a quick recap of what happened two years ago?
--:-- Georgia Howe: Sure. So, two years ago, almost exactly to the day, the U.S. was in the midst of a rushed and, by most accounts, extremely disorganized retreat from Afghanistan. The U.S. had been there for nearly two decades, making it the longest war in U.S. history.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: [in a separate audio clip] When President Biden made his announcement for a full withdrawal, it was very clear to me that things were going to go south very quickly, much more quickly than he was predicting. And obviously, everything descended into chaos. 13 Americans dead, hundreds, probably over, in the thousands of Americans left behind, tens of thousands of Afghans left behind.
--:-- Georgia Howe: The seminal moment of that withdrawal came on August 26th, 2021. And that's when a suicide bombing at a major gate entry to the Kabul airport in Afghanistan called Abbey Gate claimed the lives of 13 American service members and nearly 200 civilians.
--:-- James Hassan: [in a separate audio clip] If the United States had decided to maintain Bagram Air Base, which is close to Kabul, we would have been in a position where we would have been able to run a much safer and much more effective evacuation. We would have been able to very likely keep the Taliban from ever conquering Kabul itself, which would have made our lives much, much easier.
--:-- Georgia Howe: In the aftermath of that bombing, many observers blamed the attack on the collapse of the U.S.-backed Afghani government and on poor planning on the part of the Biden administration. And that's the subject of this new book by Dunleavy and Hassan.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: In 2021, when President Biden made his announcement for a full withdrawal, it was very clear to me that things were going to go south very quickly, much more quickly than he was predicting. And obviously, everything descended into chaos.
--:-- Georgia Howe: The war in Afghanistan, as you said, lasted almost exactly 20 years, and it was sparked by the 9-11 attacks carried out by al-Qaeda, whose leader Osama bin Laden was being sheltered by the Taliban in Afghanistan.
--:-- James Hassan: The war ended abruptly with that withdrawal by President Biden. Remind us what led him to pull the plug on the war.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Well, at that point, it had become a political hot potato. Americans were incredibly tired of the war, and everyone, for the most part, wanted to get out. But how to do it was another matter.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Obama, Trump, and Biden had all campaigned on ending U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, but securing a peace deal with the Taliban had proven to be extremely difficult.
--:-- Georgia Howe: But Biden ultimately did keep his promise and he took U.S. troops out, but that process was slammed as rushed and disorganized, even by people who actually supported the withdrawal.
--:-- James Hassan: And in some ways, it was a lose-lose situation, but one of the major criticisms was that Biden pulled military forces out of key positions like the Bagram Air Base outside of Kabul before U.S. civilians had been evacuated, rather than doing a multi-stage withdrawal, it was just this sudden chaotic vacuum.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And very quickly, without the U.S. support that it had relied on for 20 years, the Afghan government collapsed in a matter of weeks, and that left the entire country at the mercy of the Taliban.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: The way that President Biden withdrew set us up for total failure, set the Afghan military up for a collapse, set the Taliban up for victory, set the Americans and the Afghan allies in Afghanistan to be stuck behind enemy lines and stuck our U.S. forces at just a tiny airport.
--:-- James Hassan: If the United States had decided to maintain Bagram Air Base, which is close to Kabul, we would have been in a position where we would have been able to run a much safer and much more effective evacuation. We would have been able to very likely keep the Taliban from ever conquering Kabul itself, which would have made our lives much, much easier.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, James, you were a veteran of the Afghanistan war and co-author of the book. You assisted with the evacuation efforts from abroad. Can you tell us more about what happened during that time?
--:-- James Hassan: Basically, word got out that the U.S. was evacuating anyone with a connection to the U.S., but it wasn't specified what the eligibility criteria would be. And so we had thousands upon thousands of people rushing the gates of the airport hoping to escape. It was almost unrestricted.
--:-- Georgia Howe: It was anybody who appeared to be a family unit, anybody that even just kind of claimed by word of mouth at times to have any connection to the U.S.
--:-- James Hassan: And what happened is they let in tens of thousands of people, none of whom were vetted, and most of whom had almost no connection at all to the U.S. government.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And in the process, all of the people we were supposed to get out, including thousands of American citizens, were at the back of that crowd.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: We only had several hundred U.S. troops on the ground at that time. And it wasn't enough to protect the airfield from that kind of just wave of humanity descending upon it without using lethal force against unarmed people, which, of course, U.S. forces are never going to do.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And at the same time, you're watching the Taliban, who U.S. forces have fought for 20 years, beat and in many cases execute former allies right in front of your eyes.
--:-- James Hassan: So they were placed in a no-win situation. It was in the midst of that confusion that a suicide bomber from ISIS-K slipped past American defenses and killed 13 American service members, wounding 18 others, along with almost 200 Afghans.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Was there any warning that this kind of attack could happen?
--:-- James Hassan: Unfortunately, yes. So before the attack, the U.S. had received intel that suggested the airport could come under attack.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: It's very, very clear that the administration was aware that ISIS-K was a threat. And you can even see that in the public warnings and statements that they made.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Everyone from President Biden to the Secretary of Defense to even President Macron of France warning that there was a significant ISIS threat.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: According to Pentagon reports, U.S. forces had proposed a preemptive strike against ISIS targets days before the bombing. But that proposal was shot down by Central Command because an airstrike might have angered the Taliban.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Instead, they proposed sending the Taliban to take care of the problem.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Now, ISIS and the Taliban are rival groups, and they've fought each other before. And after the Taliban seized control of the country, the U.S. had largely left security to the Taliban.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Right. And this is an important point. To be clear, the Taliban was in charge of providing security for U.S. forces at Kabul airport.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Yes, and this case is just an example of the strange bedfellows that develop in war. The Taliban is at odds with ISIS-K, but both the Taliban and ISIS-K are at odds with the West.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So the situation was just ripe for betrayal. But the U.S. military felt that it was the best option available at the time.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: And you can imagine how frustrated and unsupported U.S. troops must have felt in that situation.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, James, you've spoken about the lack of communication between the U.S. and the Taliban. Can you elaborate on that?
--:-- James Hassan: The Taliban was not doing a good job of providing security. They were doing everything that they could to make life absolute hell for the Americans and the Afghan allies trying to get to the airport.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And frankly, trying to make life hell for the Marines and for the State Department consular officials who were trying to evacuate people.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: After two years of investigating, Dunleavy and Hassan believe that it at least possible that the attack was not just a result of negligence but that elements of the Taliban who were sympathetic to ISIS may have allowed that bomber to slip through.
--:-- Georgia Howe: We heard a lot from President Biden about how the Taliban and ISIS were mortal enemies. And so that's part of why we could kind of rely on the Taliban to stop an ISIS-K attack from occurring.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: But it's also true that they had a common enemy in the United States. So it seems like relying on them for security was foolish, no matter what.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, let's talk about the withdrawal from Bagram Air Base. Ben Levy says the withdrawal from Bagram Air Base directly caused the suicide bombing on August 26.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: The suicide bomber who successfully hit Abbey Gate and killed those 13 Americans and nearly 200 Afghans as well. That suicide bomber was in prison at Bagram Air Base and was still in prison when the U.S. left that base.
--:-- Georgia Howe: The Taliban took Bagram over around August 15th, and the first thing that the Taliban did is free everyone from that prison.
--:-- James Hassan: Sergeant Tyler Vargas Andrews, who ended up being grievously wounded in that terrorist attack, losing two of his limbs. He has testified that he and the other Marines received intelligence ahead of the bombing about what the suicide bomber looked like.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And he believed that he had spotted this suicide bomber, asked permission from his commanding officer to take the shot. And his commanding officer said he didn't have permission to do that.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Tyler asked his commanding officer to figure out who could give that order to shoot. And his commanding officer, he says, never got back to him.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And a bomber disappeared into the crowd. And we all know what happened next.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Now, the bombing occurred on August 26th, as you said. When was the withdrawal officially complete?
--:-- Georgia Howe: Well, the last American plane left Kabul on August 30th of 2021. But thousands of American citizens and allies were left behind.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: There wasn't exactly a clear end date. For months, President Biden was peppered with questions about those left behind.
--:-- Georgia Howe: I made a commitment to the American people that I would bring America's military involvement in Afghanistan to an end. While it's been hard and messy, and yes, far from perfect, I've honored that commitment because it's the right one, it's the right decision for America.
--:-- Georgia Howe: May God protect our troops, our diplomats, and all brave Americans serving in harm's way.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Mr. President, what do you make of the Afghans flinging the aircraft? It was time to end a 20-year war.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thank you so much.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Mr. President, there had not been a U.S. service member killed in combat in Afghanistan since February of 2020. You said the buck stops with you. Do you bear any responsibility for the way that things have unfolded in the last two weeks?
--:-- Georgia Howe: I bear responsibility for fundamentally all that's happened.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Do you think that people have an issue with pulling out of Afghanistan or just a wave of things that happen?
--:-- Georgia Howe: I think they have an issue that people are like to get hurt. Some, as we've seen, we've gotten killed, and that it is messy.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Over the next few months, there was a mad rush to resettle thousands of Afghans who came to the U.S., many of them with nothing aside from the clothes they were wearing.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: A lot of them had no documents. And just for perspective, people were so desperate to get on these planes that they were handing babies over fences.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yeah, the footage of that was disturbing.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: There was also a lot of harsh criticism about the military equipment left behind.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Can you speak to that?
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Right. So the Taliban reportedly seized billions of dollars of U.S. military equipment.
--:-- Georgia Howe: There were some viral photos showing Taliban militants attempting to use U.S. helicopters, although it's been reported that they were remotely disabled.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: But it's not just the loss of billions in equipment. The main concern now is that the country's become a hotbed for terror.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Reports from the United Nations suggest that al-Qaeda, which remains a close ally of the Taliban, has now set up new training bases in Afghanistan and is using the country as a base for fundraising and recruitment.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: So in a lot of ways, it's like the dam broke and now we're back at square one or perhaps worse.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yeah. Well, another major concern was that women in Afghanistan would bear the heaviest burden with the Taliban coming into power again.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: What do we know on that front?
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yeah. So initially, the Taliban was promising publicly not to roll back women's rights. That was kind of part of their campaign to be seen as a legitimate government on the world stage.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: But on the ground, that promise has been violated repeatedly.
--:-- Georgia Howe: In rural areas, women had very few rights, even under U.S. occupation. But at least in the metro areas where the U.S. was propping up the official government, women were able to go to school and hold jobs.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: But since the withdrawal, that's largely gone away.
--:-- Georgia Howe: They're also cracking down on anyone who they perceive to be a supporter of the U.S., including our left-behind allies.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Right, and that's been of particular concern.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, what effect did this have globally?
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Well, aside from potentially leaving behind an incubation zone for global terror, the poor execution was a major blow to U.S. prestige on the world stage.
--:-- Georgia Howe: The withdrawal was seen as chaotic, and some experts warned that it signaled weakness and resolve on the part of the U.S. military.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Others have argued that it may have emboldened Russian President Vladimir Putin, who launched his invasion of Ukraine less than six months later.
--:-- Georgia Howe: The withdrawal from Afghanistan may go down in history as the worst foreign policy blunder in U.S. history, according to some experts.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: This did not need to happen. It was completely avoidable.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And at the end of the day, the buck stops with the commander-in-chief.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: And the only reaction from the Biden administration has been to try and ignore it.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Now, as we mentioned at the top, 13 American service members were killed in that attack. How was that handled and how did the Biden administration frame their legacy?
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Well, the president has been criticized heavily for failing to adequately express real reverence for the loss of life that day.
--:-- Georgia Howe: According to James Hassan, it appeared to him as though the administration was so eager to sweep the failure under the rug that the Gold Star families even weren't given the treatment they deserved.
--:-- James Hassan: President Biden never used their child's names. It was unclear that he even knew the names at all.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Every single time, every single parent told us that he immediately switched the conversation to his son, Beau, without asking questions about who their sons and daughters were, without giving any indication that he took responsibility for what happened.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: Steve Nkui, whose son Kareem was one of the 13 killed, told Congress that he felt President Biden used his son as a pawn to meet an arbitrary deadline.
--:-- Georgia Howe: My son needed a commander-in-chief who cared solely about his life. Instead, his commander-in-chief chose to use him as a pawn so he could meet his September 11th deadline and get the optics he wanted.
--:-- Georgia Howe: All told, as we approach the two-year anniversary, the situation still feels very raw to a lot of Americans.
--:-- Jerry Dunleavy: And very likely, it's playing into this growing isolationist sentiment that we're seeing, especially on the Right.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yeah, we continue to see the repercussions from that event.
--:-- John Bickley: Georgia, thanks so much for reporting.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Thanks, John.
--:-- John Bickley: And that's a wrap for today's episode of Morning Wire.
