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--:-- John Bickley: The power struggle over the future of Twitter among Elon Musk, the media, and the political world has shined a spotlight on the issue of free expression and big tech. Along with new revelations about the FBI working directly with social media platforms to police misinformation, many are increasingly worried about the direction of free speech in America. I'm Daily Wire editor-in-chief John Bickley with Georgia Howe. It's December 11th, and this is your Sunday edition of Morning Wire.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Joining us to talk about the future of free speech in big tech is Molly Hemingway, editor-in-chief of The Federalist and best-selling author of Rigged, a look at the role of the media in big tech in recent elections.
--:-- John Bickley: Quick note, a curtailed version of this discussion aired earlier this week, but here is more of the conversation. So Molly, we've had the beginning of the so-called Twitter files released over the last few days exposing apparent political bias within the platform. First, what new information have we actually learned so far from what's been released?
--:-- Molly Hemingway: For a lot of Americans, what we learned in this new release mostly confirmed what people had already suspected. So the big change is that we have actual evidence that there was a widespread and coordinated campaign involving also Democrats and the Biden campaign to wrongfully suppress the very important news story about the Biden family business. The New York Post had put this out and they were unable to publish on various social media platforms. You couldn't even share this through direct messages. We already knew that, but now with these documents, we know how many high-level people were involved and how they tried to justify this and how poor it looks in retrospect.
--:-- John Bickley: Now, the release strategy for this information has sparked a lot of debate. Musk first teased the release and then he provided the documents to Matt Taibbi, an independent journalist who reported it on Twitter and also his Substack. What should we make of this release strategy?
--:-- Molly Hemingway: This is actually a really interesting strategy, and it speaks to, first off, the complete corruption of our major corporate media. They, rather than speaking truth to power or revealing corruption, they're frequently part of it, just as they were with this Hunter Biden story. And so what you're seeing are more and more independent journalists being sought after to tell true stories. Matt Taibbi has an excellent reputation. Yes, a man of the left, but willing to just speak truthfully about powerful interests. And he's done that, you know, since he was at Rolling Stone. He's really made a name for himself with that recently.
--:-- John Bickley: And so it was a very interesting decision to go with someone who is, well who is willing to take on tough subjects as he has with the Russia collusion hoax and other big journalistic stories that major media have just completely failed or been a part of. And so having him tell the story was a new way of getting major news and information out. And we know that this is going to keep on happening because Elon Musk in Twitter spaces revealed that this will be a pattern that he continues to use to get news and information about Twitter's suppression of news stories out to the American people and to the world.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: Yeah, about that. What has Musk said or signaled in terms of future releases?
--:-- John Bickley: Well, we know that some sort of information went to Barry Weiss, who's another independent journalist. She actually left The New York Times because of how corrupted they were and how they were controlling news and information and her very hostile work environment she had at the increasingly small-minded and left-wing New York Times. And then we know that this could happen with other reporters as well. They'll be given access.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: I do want to say that if you really wanted to be transparent about how bad things have been at Twitter, how heavily involved they have been in meddling in U.S. elections and other countries' elections, it is good to get this information out through reporters. It would also be good to just make these files publicly available so journalists of all stripes and just interested parties of all stripes could go ahead and look through them and make their own decisions about what's going on at Twitter and other powerful social media platforms.
--:-- John Bickley: Right. That's been one of the criticisms leveled against Musk. And then there's also been this very forceful backlash against Taibbi for what critics say is participating in this so-called PR stunt for Musk. What have we learned from the backlash against Taibbi?
--:-- Molly Hemingway: Yeah, the backlash against Taibbi was fierce. He was making everyone in corporate media look awful because, as we know, nearly all of them participated in this coordinated conspiracy to cover up a major political news story on the eve of a U.S. election. You will recall that nearly every reporter in America just willfully accepted some pretty ludicrous talking points, such as this false claim that this was Russian disinformation. You know, the Biden family itself wasn't denying the veracity of these documents, even if they, too, you know, President Biden, when he was a candidate, made it seem like it really could have been Russian disinformation.
--:-- John Bickley: Right. You had all these reporters adopting this and saying it. They look horrible. I mean, there's no trust in corporate media, and it's because of things like this. So they got really mad at Matt Taibbi. But the idea that what he's doing, his PR for the world's most powerful man, that is clearly a talking point that was shared and asked to be expressed by these people who all sounded the same tone.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: And the thing is, a lot of these journalists work for like the world's second wealthiest man. You know, the Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos. Most major media are owned by very powerful interests, very moneyed interests. And they are, in fact, probably serving those interests. The idea that Matt Taibbi, by getting access to these documents and telling the story about what they told, that that being somehow wrong, I would be much more worried about how all these actors in the media immediately ran to do defense for you know frankly the crackhead son of the world most powerful politician rather than what Taibbi was doing.
--:-- John Bickley: As you mentioned, this could be perceived as a major threat to the legacy outlets. This is independent journalism and it feels like the future of journalism. So it's maybe not surprising that there's some defensiveness there. I guess the big question here, will there be or should there be any legal consequences for what we've learned so far from these Twitter files?
--:-- Molly Hemingway: What happened with the cover-up of the Hunter Biden story had massive worldwide consequences. This was inarguably the most important political story on the eve of the election. This election came down to 40,000 votes across three states. It clearly had an influence on the outcome of the election. And then that had so many profound consequences, again, worldwide in terms of economic policy, foreign policy, border policy. And the idea that a social media company, and there were a couple of them doing this, could be so powerful as to affect the outcome of elections. And it wasn't just this story. It was many stories where they were putting their weight behind narratives that helped their political allies or suppressing narratives that hurt their political allies.
--:-- John Bickley: To be able to do that unabated or without any check is very dangerous. And so there need to be things done to make sure that very powerful social media companies can't be more powerful than our election system or more powerful than a government. They affect freedom of speech, freedom of the press. They are a very negative influence on these things. So it's kind of a complicated issue in how to handle it. But clearly, when you're facing existential threats to the republic and to the values that the republic holds dear, something has to be done.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: So broadening out a bit here, some people might attempt to dismiss the Biden laptop story as a one-off. But in your book, Rigged, you present the case that there's a pattern of collusion between big tech and big government. How do the Twitter files fit in with the pattern you documented in your book and all your discussions with key players in these industries?
--:-- John Bickley: It's good to remember the good that comes from social media. And social media, which really has taken off in the last couple of decades, has enabled people to communicate with each other. It's allowed reporting to take place in really new and interesting ways. It's also had a huge downside. So you take the 2016 election when Republicans were able to bypass corporate media's suppression of news information that helped them and speak directly to the people through social media. Well, when that led to the surprise victory of Donald Trump, many of these oligarchs and people who head up these social media companies said they would never let it happen again. And that's where things started going really downhill through algorithmic game playing where they would suppress or censor or remove information that they felt hurt them politically or to elevate narratives or news and information that they thought would help them politically.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: To deplatform some of the most effective conservative voices or to meddle directly in elections like they did here with this Hunter Biden story or by deplatforming various candidates. This is a tremendous threat. And the Hunter Biden story is just one example of the power that they have to shape information. You know, there are all sorts of things that are still happening on social media platforms, including Twitter, to make people think that their viewpoints are marginalized when they're not, to make marginalized viewpoints seem actually quite legitimate. It's really messing with what people understand about what's possible politically and otherwise, this is an extremely important issue for our republic.
--:-- John Bickley: You know, Christopher Caldwell, who's a great thinker and journalist, wrote about how some of these social media platforms are more powerful than countries themselves. And so it's not something that you can just wish away. It has to be dealt with. And it's not just about things that happened in the past or this one particular story, but really about how we will have an informed electorate that has control over its own elections. And is able to debate and able to uphold those values that we so need for the perpetuation of the republic, whether it's how we debate with each other, whether we're free to speak with each other, and what the repercussions of that are.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: I think a lot of people who are center right are very hopeful about what Musk might be able to actually accomplish through his takeover of Twitter. Many feel this might really open the door to some true progress for free speech in big tech. Is that hope merited?
--:-- John Bickley: It's weird. We live in this age of oligarchs, and many of the oligarchs are doing very bad things. I'm cautiously optimistic about Elon Musk. There's a lot of room for optimism. It's the first time we've seen any pushback to the left's war on freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of debate, and that it's been done effectively is just so heartening. I mean, it's very important to resist and get some wins against this totalitarian mindset. At the same time, it's just one oligarch. There's any number of reasons why he might be doing this. People should be cautious and also pressing for much more from him as well.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: Like I mentioned, there's been a lot of good movement on Twitter. There's also a lot to be done. There continues to be suppression of effective conservative voices and algorithmic game playing. And so we have reason to be optimistic, but we are so far away from where we should be.
--:-- John Bickley: Final question. Have you been surprised by the extent and coordination of the backlash against Musk?
--:-- Molly Hemingway: I think it really speaks to how much Twitter mattered to the left, the ability to control people's thoughts and ability to debate that they are pushing back as hard as they are. It makes the bravery of Musk all the more noteworthy because I mean, this is a level of outrage and hysteria and resistance to someone merely pushing for more freedom of speech than I think anyone could have imagined. It is really a sight to behold, and I think it should be a lesson for everybody about how committed, unfortunately, some people on the left are to opposing free speech and freedom of the press.
--:-- John Bickley: Well, Molly, thank you so much for your time.
--:-- Molly Hemingway: Thank you.
--:-- John Bickley: That was Molly Hemingway, editor-in-chief of The Federalist and author of Rigged.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Well, that's all the time we've got this morning. Thanks for waking up with us. We'll be back tomorrow with the news you need to know.
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--:-- John Bickley: Thanks for listening to Morning Wire.
