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--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire. I'm John Bickley, editor-in-chief of The Daily Wire, and I'm here with Georgia Howe. It's September 15th.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Morning Wire is presented by The Daily Wire. We're glad you're here.
--:-- John Bickley: Today, we're discussing the DEI industry and its influence on American culture. Joining us now is Matt Walsh, a bestselling author, host of The Matt Walsh Show, and star of the new film "Am I Racist?"
--:-- Matt Walsh: Thanks for having me on the show.
--:-- John Bickley: Congratulations on your film, Matt. It's getting a wide release due to big pre-sales on tickets. How many theaters is the film showing in now?
--:-- Matt Walsh: We're currently over 1,500 theaters, which is drastically up from what we started with, which I think was a couple hundred. And as you said, it was pre-sales. Pre-sales were really strong. We encouraged the audience to support the film early before it comes out. And they did, and we're really grateful for that.
--:-- Georgia Howe: You're now making a bit of a habit making movies based on big questions that apparently need answering now. What is a woman tackled the issue of gender identity. Now you're asking, Am I Racist? What prompted you to make that the focus of the film?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, it's another question, as What is a Woman's a question, obviously, but it's a very different kind of question. And in this film, we're taking more of a personal journey approach. We decided, you know, after the success of What is a Woman, obviously we wanted to make another movie, really, for me, my first experience making a film. So my first time seeing up close just kind of the impact that a film can have on the culture. And it seems obvious to all of us that after we kind of tackled gender ideology and the trans issue, that the other big area of cultural controversy is race. And in particular, these days, especially the so-called anti-racism industry and DEI.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: Joining us now is Matt Walsh, bestselling author, host of The Matt Walsh Show, and now star of two feature-length films. Matt, so good to have you on. It's the first time we've had a full interview with you.
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, yeah. I don't know why it took us so long to do this, but really appreciate it being on the show.
--:-- John Bickley: First, congratulations on your film, not just making it into theaters, which is a big enough deal, but also getting a wide release due to big pre-sales on tickets.
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, we're really grateful for that.
--:-- Georgia Howe: You're now making a bit of a habit making movies based on big questions that apparently need answering now. What is a woman tackled the issue of gender identity. Now you're asking, Am I Racist? What prompted you to make that the focus of the film?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, it's another question, as What is a Woman's a question, obviously but it's a very different kind of question. And in this film, we're taking more of a personal journey approach. We decided, you know, after the success of What is a Woman, obviously we wanted to make another movie, really, for me, my first experience making a film. So my first time seeing up close just kind of the impact that a film can have on the culture. And it seems obvious to all of us that after we kind of tackled gender ideology and the trans issue, that the other big area of cultural controversy is race. And in particular, these days, especially the so-called anti-racism industry and DEI.
--:-- John Bickley: You're now making a bit of a habit making movies based on big questions that apparently need answering now. What is a woman tackled the issue of gender identity. Now you're asking, Am I Racist? What prompted you to make that the focus of the film?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, it's another question, as What is a Woman's a question, obviously but it's a very different kind of question. And in this film, we're taking more of a personal journey approach. We decided, you know, after the success of What is a Woman, obviously we wanted to make another movie, really, for me, my first experience making a film. So my first time seeing up close just kind of the impact that a film can have on the culture. And it seems obvious to all of us that after we kind of tackled gender ideology and the trans issue, that the other big area of cultural controversy is race. And in particular, these days, especially the so-called anti-racism industry and DEI.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So look, the first movie, What is a Woman?, was funny. Intrinsically, this one is a comedy. Did you set out intending this to be a comedy or did it just sort of organically turn into one?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, we did. That's what we decided early on, that we wanted to explore the issue. We want to get the message across. We want to expose these anti-racist grifters. But we also, So we exactly that we want this to be a comedy. And, you know, I think maybe some people in the audience will be surprised. I already heard people that were surprised by I guess just how much we leaning into the comedy of it
--:-- John Bickley: Look, one of the themes that comes up repeatedly in the film is money. You make a point of showing that DEI is not just a movement, it's an industry. What did you find in terms of the transactional nature of the experts you sat down with in film?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, they all wanted to get paid. And one thing we do is, as you saw in the movie, we put the price tags for all of these people on the screen. We paid them all to be in the movie, and we don't hide from that because that's part of the story. And what we found is that, look, there's a lot of money to be made in the DEI industry. And we see this throughout the film that, you know, when you position yourself as kind of this moral authority and someone who's in a position where you can help someone atone for their racist sins. When you put yourself in that position, there's just a lot of money to be made in it.
--:-- Georgia Howe: There have been several viral clips from the film Making the Rounds Online. One involves the race to dinner duo, Syrah Rao and Regina Jackson. The scene is honestly first hilarious, but it's also hard to believe. For those who haven't seen that clip, can you set the scene for us?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, race to dinner is a real thing that these two women do where they will come to dinner and they'll call you racist for two hours. That's the basic idea. Sounds great. Yeah, it's just a great time. I mean, who wouldn't want to take advantage of that? It's only white women, though. So white women can have these dinners and invite Cyber Round Regina Jackson to come and call them racist.
--:-- John Bickley: Robin DiAngelo is the queen of the industry, and I know that she was somebody that was probably a high-profile focus for your team. She's the author of White Fragility. She's made millions off of her anti-racism and DEI sort of self-help shtick. That includes getting money from some of America's biggest corporations. She actually rattles some of those off, touting how much influence she has in the film. You got the chance to sit down at length with her. First, like most of the other experts, it cost you some big money. How much was that?
--:-- Matt Walsh: $15,000 is what she charged us, yeah. And that was for what, two hours? Yeah, it was about a two-hour conversation. So, you know, a good $7,000 an hour or so. Not bad.
--:-- Georgia Howe: She engages in perhaps the most shocking moment in the film. First, were you surprised at how things turned out in the scene with her?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Well, the spoilers are already out there in the world, but I'm still, I'm just pretending they're not, so I don't want to talk too specifically about it. You got to go watch the movie but we had a general outline of where we wanted to take the conversation I knew that I knew that I didn't want to just sit down and talk to her and ask her questions And then that's it. We really wanted to kind of take her through some anti-racist exercises. That's what that was our goal, because prior to this in the movie, we've I went to a seminar. We've done workshops. And this is a big part of this is what she does. She does workshops. So we thought, could we get her to take part in something like that with me? and well, like I said, I want to give it away, but she did. She was game. She was a willing participant in our little workshop that we did.
--:-- John Bickley: She finally broke her silence on it. I want to read a little bit from her response. She called this a, quote, Borat-style mockumentary that she complained humiliates and discredits anti-racist educators and activists. She also says she donated the $15,000 she required you to pay to sit down with her to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. What's your response to her statement?
--:-- Matt Walsh: She's half right. She says that we were looking to embarrass and humiliate the anti-racist industry. And if the anti-racist industry was embarrassed or humiliated, we didn't do it. They did it to themselves. And if Robin DiAngelo was embarrassed, she did it to herself. I will say that it's not a mockumentary. It is a documentary because this is a real issue that we are exploring. And these are real people. Everything that happens is real. So it's a documentary. And on the Borat end of it, I'll fully admit that we use some similar strategies and approaches to what someone like Sacha Baron Cohen has used. Although it is interesting to me that when Sacha Baron Cohen does it, or when someone like Nathan Fielder does it, you don't hear the left complain very much. But when we do it, all of a sudden it's unethical.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Even with all the money that you had to fork over, was it difficult sometimes to get big names like D'Angelo to sit down with you?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, it was. I mean, we didn't, of course, we did not get everybody we wanted to get in the film. We cast a pretty wide net. If you think about all the big names in that world, you name them, we probably sent out an inquiry and some people were more cautious. There are some people in that world who are very, very cautious about who they talk to. But I think it's because they know that, you know, it's a very, it's a very shallow subject matter and hard to defend. But Robin DiAngelo, it wasn't that difficult to get her to sit down. I mean, we just sent an email. We took a little bit of setting up. We paid her and she came in and she sat for two hours. She was very open at the time. Maybe, maybe now not so much though.
--:-- John Bickley: Look, the media also plays an unwitting role in your film. Can you talk about your media appearances as Matt, the do the work instructor?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, that's as we get later into the film and I become my own DEI expert after I feel like I've done the work to really be an expert, that I could have my own seminar. And we go to multiple local news channels and do interviews where I'm just advertising my seminar. And that was interesting too, because there was very little background checking going on, apparently, with these news channels. They didn't even ask for my last name. I never gave it. We said that to just call me Matt, the DEI expert. And that what they called me They never asked for the last name And that was pretty interesting Again it remarkable painful at times to watch but hilarious
--:-- Georgia Howe: DEI has become one of the most influential forces in American culture It's in the government, education, Hollywood. Of course, the Biden-Harris administration has really leaned into this. Vice President Kamala Harris, she comes up a lot in this film. How does she play into this DEI agenda?
--:-- Matt Walsh: Yeah, the really interesting thing is that, of course, we finished production and post-production on this film before Conor Harris was actually the presidential nominee. But she's still in the movie a lot. It just so happens because she's been one of the main proponents of it. And the reality is that, look, she is the DEI presidential candidate. So this movie hits at a really fortuitous time. And that's what she is. I mean, Joe Biden has all but called her that because he said that he was looking for a black woman to be his vice president candidate. And that's what DEI is. Judging people based on their demographics, their skin color, excluding entire groups of people because they're the wrong demographic, not hiring based on merit. That is what DEI is. That's what it is to a T. And that's how she ended up in the position that she's in. And, you know, this movie is for her. I hope that she I hope she watches it. We'll send her a screener if she's interested.
--:-- John Bickley: You let the elite expose themselves in this film, but we do hear from just sort of average Americans. And some of that is really, it's encouraging to hear expressions of unity and a sense of hope about what really makes America, America. Do you see any signs of the DEI momentum in America being checked or even reversed lately?
--:-- Matt Walsh: I think so and as you point out when we went and talked to normal people who are really outside of the DEI bubble in that you know most of them probably didn't go to college so they didn't get the brainwashing there they're not in corporate America so they're not getting the HR DEI seminars and all that kind of stuff and so for them that when we talk whether white people or black people that we talk to in the film they don't even speak the same language I mean we use terms like systemic racism that even to me now, I think systemic racism is a false narrative, but I'm extremely familiar with the term. To me, it seems like just a household term. But again, you go outside the bubble and even that term, it's like they didn't really even know what I meant by that. I had to explain it. So that's a good sign that kind of shows you that a lot of this stuff, it's kind of a very narrow lane and all you have to do to be free of it. If we could just ignore these DEI grifters, the Robin DeAngelos of the world, if you ignore them, if they're not a part of your life at all, then it'll be okay. We're not going to be in some kind of racial utopia, but I think most people in modern America, their default position, unless they listen to someone like Robin DeAngelo, the default position is, you know, to not be all that focused on issues of race and racism, and to just kind of like live their life. And that's what I think most people would do, if not for the DEI grift.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Final question. Did you ever imagine seeing yourself on the big screen? What's that been like for you?
--:-- Matt Walsh: No, I didn't. And it's been pretty surreal. We had the premiere a couple of days ago and it was my first time actually watching myself. I've seen the movie probably 20 times throughout the process of making it, but my first time watching it with a crowd and certainly my first time seeing it on the big screen and it was surreal, but a little bit disconcerting in certain ways, but also, of course, a huge thrill and just really grateful for it. You know, we'll see what happens this weekend. I'm pretty optimistic. This is what it means to compete in the culture. That's where the culture happens in places like movie theaters. And this is where we need to be if we want to make an impact.
--:-- John Bickley: Well, I'm sure she'll love it. You let the elite expose themselves in this film, but we do hear from just sort of average Americans. And some of that is really, it's encouraging to hear expressions of unity and a sense of hope about what really makes America, America. Do you see any signs of the DEI momentum in America being checked or even reversed lately?
--:-- Matt Walsh: I think so and as you point out when we went and talked to normal people who are really outside of the DEI bubble in that you know most of them probably didn't go to college so they didn't get the brainwashing there they're not in corporate America so they're not getting the HR DEI seminars and all that kind of stuff and so for them that when we talk whether white people or black people that we talk to in the film they don't even speak the same language I mean we use terms like systemic racism that even to me now, I think systemic racism is a false narrative, but I'm extremely familiar with the term. To me, it seems like just a household term. But again, you go outside the bubble and even that term, it's like they didn't really even know what I meant by that. I had to explain it. So that's a good sign that kind of shows you that a lot of this stuff, it's kind of a very narrow lane and all you have to do to be free of it. If we could just ignore these DEI grifters, the Robin DeAngelos of the world, if you ignore them, if they're not a part of your life at all, then it'll be okay. We're not going to be in some kind of racial utopia, but I think most people in modern America, their default position, unless they listen to someone like Robin DeAngelo, the default position is, you know, to not be all that focused on issues of race and racism, and to just kind of like live their life. And that's what I think most people would do, if not for the DEI grift.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Well, I'm sure she'll love it. You let the elite expose themselves in this film, but we do hear from just sort of average Americans. And some of that is really, it's encouraging to hear expressions of unity and a sense of hope about what really makes America, America. Do you see any signs of the DEI momentum in America being checked or even reversed lately?
--:-- Matt Walsh: I think so and as you point out when we went and talked to normal people who are really outside of the DEI bubble in that you know most of them probably didn't go to college so they didn't get the brainwashing there they're not in corporate America so they're not getting the HR DEI seminars and all that kind of stuff and so for them that when we talk whether white people or black people that we talk to in the film they don't even speak the same language I mean we use terms like systemic racism that even to me now, I think systemic racism is a false narrative, but I'm extremely familiar with the term. To me, it seems like just a household term. But again, you go outside the bubble and even that term, it's like they didn't really even know what I meant by that. I had to explain it. So that's a good sign that kind of shows you that a lot of this stuff, it's kind of a very narrow lane and all you have to do to be free of it. If we could just ignore these DEI grifters, the Robin DeAngelos of the world, if you ignore them, if they're not a part of your life at all, then it'll be okay. We're not going to be in some kind of racial utopia, but I think most people in modern America, their default position, unless they listen to someone like Robin DeAngelo, the default position is, you know, to not be all that focused on issues of race and racism, and to just kind of like live their life. And that's what I think most people would do, if not for the DEI grift.
--:-- John Bickley: Matt, thank you so much for coming on and great luck with this film.
--:-- Matt Walsh: Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That was Matt Walsh, star of Am I Racist, which is in theaters all over the country now. And this has been a Sunday edition of Morning Wire.
