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--:-- Georgia Howe: We often joke about being addicted to modern technology and entertainment, but addiction experts are now saying that may be literally true. Further, they say that those addictions can cause chronic symptoms of chemical withdrawal, like anxiety, insomnia, and depression. One solution? Dopamine fasting. So what is dopamine fasting? And how can it help us live more satisfying, peaceful, and joyful lives? We'll answer those questions and more.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: I'm Georgia Howe. Today is Saturday, November 27th, and this is your bonus holiday edition of Morning Wire. This show is sponsored by Pure Talk. If you're with Verizon, AT&T, or T-Mobile, you're paying too much. Switching to Pure Talk saves the average family over $800 a year. Go to puretalk.com, find the right plan for you, and enter promo code WIRE to save 50% off your first month.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Over the past century, our world has transformed from a place of scarcity to a place of overwhelming abundance. Drugs, food, news, gambling, shopping, gaming, texting, social media, pornography. Today, our ability to access highly stimulating experiences at the touch of a button is staggering. Unfortunately, our brain chemistry hasn't quite caught up.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Today, we speak to a psychiatrist, professor, and medical director of addiction medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine, and the author of Dopamine Nation, Dr. Anna Lemke, about dopamine addiction, how it affects us, and what we can do about it.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Dr. Lemke, thanks so much for joining us.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: Well, thank you for having me.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So first, Dr. Lemke, before I jump into asking you about dopamine fasting, which is what our whole team is really excited to try over the holidays. I want to hear a little bit about your research on addiction.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: So you have this great quote where you actually call the smartphone a modern day hypodermic needle delivering digital dopamine 24-7. So what is dopamine addiction and what does it have to do with our smartphones?
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yeah, so dopamine itself is not really the addiction. Dopamine is a chemical in the brain and neurotransmitter that is released when we ingest an addictive substance or really any reinforcing pleasurable substance or when we engage in a reinforcing or pleasurable behavior.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: So we don't want to vilify dopamine. It's not dopamine's fault Dopamine is the chemical that mediates the experience of reward motivation and pleasure in the brain. I guess we're addicted to dopamine in the sense that we're addicted to these reinforcing experiences.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And essentially what happens is that when we do something that's pleasurable, motivating, or reinforcing, we release dopamine in a part of the brain called the reward pathway.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: But one of the overriding principles governing that pathway is that it wants to return to baseline tonic levels of dopamine release. And so it will very quickly adapt to any increase in dopamine by down-regulating dopamine production and down-regulating dopamine transmission.
--:-- Georgia Howe: But here's really the key finding. It doesn't just bring dopamine levels back to tonic baseline levels. It actually decreases dopamine levels below baseline before returning to homeostatic baseline levels.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: And that means for every pleasure, there's a price. That pleasure is followed by pain, and that if we do too many pleasurable things, we can actually put ourselves into a chronic dopamine deficit state where we're experiencing the universal symptoms of withdrawal from any addictive substance, which are anxiety, irritability, insomnia, depression, and craving, intrusive thoughts of wanting to use our drug.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So each time we get a hit of dopamine, say from checking our newsfeed, we feel great for a quick period of time and then we rebound to a deficit state. And then over time, we kind of drive down our baseline level of dopamine.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: Absolutely. So what happens when we make those connections with other people through social media apps or through texting or other media is that we get a little release of dopamine in the reward pathway.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And when we're doing that, you know, 50, 100, 150, 200 times a day, we're essentially constantly stimulating that reward pathway, not dissimilar to the way that people who smoke cigarettes are constantly reaching for a cigarette to keep their nicotine levels up.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: So the result of all of that constant low threshold dopamine stimulation is that we're probably driving our own endogenous dopamine production down and we're essentially putting ourselves in a state of anxiety and depression.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And so before we had all these cell phones and vending machines, we wouldn't be getting as many hits of dopamine, or at least not on such a constant on-demand basis.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: And you believe our brains are evolved for a slower pace of life.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yes, yes. So that's exactly right. So our brains are wired over millions of years of evolution to approach pleasure and avoid pain.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: But our brains have really they can accommodate natural rewards food clothing shelter finding a mate. What our brains are not evolved for is these constant hits of dopamine every day throughout the day.
--:-- Georgia Howe: It's really the mismatch between our primitive brain and the modern ecosystem, where our brain is struggling to compensate for the constant influx of dopamine.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: So what exactly is dopamine fasting? Dopamine fasting is where you cut out that drug or behavior that you have a conflicted relationship with for a period of time.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: And I usually recommend a month because a month is about the minimum amount of time needed to restore baseline homeostasis or baseline tonic levels of dopamine, as well as enough time to look back and see true cause and effect.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Because when we're chasing dopamine, we usually can't really see the impact of our use on our lives.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: And should a person expect to go through withdrawal symptoms if they attempt a dopamine fast? I mean, do you have to go through withdrawal in order to come out the other side?
--:-- Georgia Howe: Yeah, this is a really key point that I tell all my patients that you're going to feel worse before you feel better and that initially you will experience the universal symptoms of withdrawal from any addictive substance, anxiety, irritability, insomnia, depression, craving.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: But the answer is not to reach for some other rewarding substance. The answer is tincture of time, T-I-M-E. Just wait long enough. Your brain will kick in its own endogenous re-regulating healing mechanisms.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And usually two weeks is the critical mark where people turn a corner and start to feel better.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: So, you know, people are going on the holidays and we have this new year coming up. A lot of people may feel they have an opportunity to step away from their phones for a minute and potentially do a dopamine fast.
--:-- Georgia Howe: So what advice would you give to people who want to try a dopamine fast?
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: Everybody's different. So I would just ask that person to explore what is the substance or behavior in their own lives that they would like to change their relationship with.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Typically think of the three C's, control, compulsion, and continued use despite consequences.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: So if there a substance or behavior that you ingest that you feel has taken over you instead of you managing it then that would be something to consider cutting out.
--:-- Georgia Howe: I think every individual should choose what their drug of choice is. For me it was romance novels. For somebody else, it might be alcohol. For yet a third person, it might be video games or cannabis or pornography or what have you.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: But the idea is to eliminate that substance or that behavior for a period of time long enough for the gremlins to hop off of the pain side of the balance and for homeostasis to be restored.
--:-- Georgia Howe: I recommend planning a specific quit date, letting other people know, doing it together with other people, and most importantly, anticipating that you will feel worse before you will feel better.
--:-- Dr. Anna Lemke: All right, well, Dr. Lemke, this has been great. Thank you so much for coming on.
--:-- Georgia Howe: You're very welcome. Thank you.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: That was author, psychiatrist, professor, and medical director of addiction medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine, Dr. Anna Lemke.
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--:-- Georgia Howe: Before you go, here's a couple top stories we're tracking. U.S. Navy sailors who do not comply with the coronavirus vaccine mandate are being discharged and may face other punitive actions.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Navy officials announced in a statement last week, quote, in order to ensure a fully vaccinated force, U.S. Navy policy is to process for separation all Navy service members who refuse the lawful order to receive the COVID-19 vaccination and do not have an approved exemption.
--:-- Georgia Howe: According to multiple reports, no religious exemptions have been granted. Navy officials ordered that those who fail to comply will forfeit bonus, special pay, or incentive pay, and should be, quote, defrocked as soon as feasible.
--:-- Georgia Howe: And amid grim polling for Democrats, political analysts are shifting more electoral projections in favor of Republicans for the midterms, including in the U.S. Senate.
--:-- Georgia Howe: The Cook Political Report has shifted its projections in favor of Republicans for three tightly contested Senate races in Georgia, Arizona, and Nevada, which were all moved from leaning in favor of Democrats to toss-ups.
--:-- Georgia Howe: President Biden is now underwater in job approval by an average of a dozen points, while polling shows Republicans with the advantage among voters over Democrats in generic polling for both the House and the Senate.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Well, folks, that's it for our bonus holiday edition of Morning Wire. Have a wonderful holiday weekend. We'll be back Monday with the news you need to know.
--:-- Georgia Howe: If you like this podcast, subscribe to our Morning Wire newsletter, available exclusively to Daily Wire members. Get the Morning Wire newsletter delivered straight to your inbox when you join at dailywire.com slash subscribe. Use code MORNINGWIRE to try a Reader's Pass membership and get your first month for only 99 cents.
