The Clash Over Ukraine Funding | Saturday Extra

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John Bickley: The congressional battle over Ukraine funding continues. The issue has divided Republicans as the war with Russia stretches on. But House Speaker Mike Johnson is hoping that his version of a military aid bill will earn broad enough support to get over the finish line.

Georgia Howe: In this episode, we talk to a former senior White House advisor about the GOP's bruising battle over sending more aid overseas.

John Bickley: I'm Daily Wire editor-in-chief John Bickley with Georgia Howe. It's Saturday, April 13th, and this is an extra edition of Morning Wire.

Georgia Howe: Joining us now is Matt Mowers, former senior White House advisor at the U.S. Department of State during the Trump administration.

Matt Mowers: Hey, thanks so much, Sean. Appreciate you having me.

John Bickley: So House Speaker Mike Johnson is preparing to unveil his plan regarding Ukraine aid. What can we expect to be in the package, and what's the argument for passing it?

Matt Mowers: Well, look, you're going to see continued military assistance for Ukraine. And I think what's important to understand about what that means, because a lot of folks think we're just sending over ammunition and pieces like that. We're sending over pallets of money, which just is not the case. What it is is investment, actually, in our own military infrastructure. So it goes to U.S. contractors. It goes to U.S. manufacturers. And then some of that supplies is then utilized to go over to Ukraine. Some of it will even be to backfill some supplies that's already been sent there. And so actually what we're doing is investing our own stockpile.

Georgia Howe: There's been a lot of talk about maybe making these loans, loans which could be forgivable in the future, which seems to be better received by Republicans on Capitol Hill. But I do believe having talked to the speaker's team and seeing what he has now said now that he's been privy to intelligence briefings and seeing the impact that Ukraine has had on really wearing down much of the Russian military capabilities, both in their stockpiles as well as the troop casualty toll and everything else, that there is, in his interest, a national security need and therefore in America's interest to continue to see Russia weaken the way that they have been.

John Bickley: Now, the Senate passed a $95 billion package for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan back in February. How does Johnson's plan need to differ from that one in order to pass?

Matt Mowers: Well, we going to have to see exactly how it breaks down. There been talk of splitting the package. And I should note a lot of this right now is still in flux. Speaker Johnson spending an incredible amount of time personally meeting with members hearing their thoughts inputs concerns to ensure that ultimately he has a funding package that can make it through Congress, ideally with a majority of Republicans voting with it, if not nearly every Republican voting with it.

Georgia Howe: And so I do expect you'll see some changes. He has said that the Senate package will not be what they ultimately put on the floor. I do feel like majority of the Senate package should be put on the floor from a personal standpoint. You know, it includes vital support for Israel, which, by the way, is a the challenges of getting Israel funding passed these days. Obviously, it's coming from the other side of the aisle and more and more of the left wing that not just the left wing even that was opposing support for Israel months ago, but really even mainstream, quote unquote, Democrats in Congress who are now saying that they want to condition the aid that is sent to Israel.

John Bickley: Will there need to be a splitting of the funding for Ukraine from the Israel aid, or do they actually need to be joined to get anything passed?

Matt Mowers: In my opinion, they should be joined. They're both in America's interest, whether it's standing with Israel, which is a completed total ally, one of the few democracies in the Mideast, not the only one, but one of the few. And not only that, but also a vital intelligence and national security partner to us. And our interest in Ukraine is this, and I know, you know, it's controversial on the right sometimes to say this. But our interest in this is that we are supporting a nation who's repelling an unwarranted, unwanted illegal invasion from a neighbor. And not only that, it's one who's a geopolitical foe. You know, whether you think Russia should be our main priority or not, very few Americans would consider them a friend. And they've shown that they aren't.

Georgia Howe: So what we need to do is, you know, stand with those who are trying to repel this brutal invasion and ensure that it represents America's interests. It represents America's interests because we have seen from Putin. And we know this because President Obama responded remarkably weak after they invaded Crimea. It's part of the reason Putin saw a green light to take on the rest of Ukraine under President Biden. And what we know is that he is not going to stop there. His mission is to get the old gang back together from the Soviet Union. That's Vladimir Putin's mission right now. He's said it. He's written about it. If you look at any of his thinkings and writings, this is a person who clearly envisions romantic grandeur of a reunified Soviet Union. And so we know that he's not going to stop there.

John Bickley: So if he doesn't stop at Ukraine, where is he going to go? He going to start rolling into NATO nations where we have an obligation to defend. And that going to then involve American troops. Right now we don have to send a single American troop on the ground in Ukraine. It reminds me a little bit of when I was in the State Department under President Trump. We came in January of 2017, and ISIS was running rampant throughout the Mideast. And instead of sending a whole bunch of American troops to surge into the region, Instead, what we did was provide the necessary weapons to our allied partners and to those cooperating partners who we're working with while we provided additional air cover and intelligence and military training support. And we were able to repel ISIS in incredibly fast time because of that approach. It's a very similar approach to what's being taken now in Ukraine. We just need to follow through on it, remain vigilant about it, and not allow either side of the aisle to weaken our resolve there.

Georgia Howe: As you've laid out here, the politics of Ukraine are very complicated. What impact is the presidential election in particular having on this Ukraine debate?

Matt Mowers: Now, look, there is a belief that somehow America can't walk and chew gum at the same time. And look, I get it. I'm an America first conservative Republican, right? I want to make sure our veterans are taken care of. I want to make sure we have a secure border. I want to make sure that American workers are put first. I'm all over that. I know a lot of folks who work in the Trump administration are all over it. But a lot of folks right now are feeling that, especially after the past several years of, whether it's COVID and the presidential election, that maybe America is too small to rise to the challenge. I just don't believe that. I think we can do both. I do believe we can take care of ourselves and also ensure that we remain in support of our geopolitical partners. I do believe that we can also continue to take on our geopolitical threats.

John Bickley: And not only that, but, you know, you talk about the politics of it all. I understand that a lot of Republicans these days don't want to support anything Joe Biden is associated with. Right. I get it. But here's what I would say. You can both be anti-Biden and anti-Putin. You know, you don't have to you don't have to check your beliefs in what is in America's best interest just because you oppose President Biden's policies. We have to be smart about this and look at what's in our actual national interest, not just what's our political interest here.

Georgia Howe: Now, Marjorie Taylor Greene has come up a lot in this debate. She's continuing to threaten Johnson's speakership, saying he should not pursue a Ukraine aid package. How much influence does she and her more hardline caucus have over the speaker?

Matt Mowers: Look, I mean, any time you've got a narrow majority the way that you do, you know, look, Speaker Johnson essentially is overseeing what effectively is a one seat majority on any vote. He can't really lose any more than one to two votes in the House. You have to pay attention to every single member. Every single member is elected to represent their constituents. Some choose to represent their constituents. Others choose to just make noise. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with Marjorie Taylor Greene. She been pretty consistent in her position on this from day one and take her at her word that it comes from a genuine place of conviction.

John Bickley: But what you have to do sometimes as Speaker too is recognize that you not just the Speaker of your own party. You not the majority leader. The majority leader is elected by just a majority of their party. The Speaker, while propelled by a majority of their party, has to often look out for the larger American interests than just their own narrow political interests. And so he certainly needs to consult with conservatives in Congress. They're important members. They make up an important voting bloc, and they have constituents that have to be heard as well. But ultimately, it's going to be his job to fashion something that gets the majority of the overall Congress, not just something that's going to win over the approval of a couple folks who at the moment are making noise.

Georgia Howe: And so he's certainly going to have to talk to Marjorie Teller Green, and I believe he has been going to increase outreach to her. But he can't let that weigh on his decision, and he knows that. Ultimately, you know, we're only on this earth for a certain amount of time and we're certainly only in political positions for an even briefer period of time. You got to sometimes put the larger national interests ahead of your own political future as well.

John Bickley: Final question. In your view, what aspect of Ukraine funding is being lost in this national debate?

Matt Mowers: I think the biggest one is the investment that it makes in America's own military capability. An underreported story has been how inadequate our current stockpiles of military equipment are, how out of date much of our investment in our own military capabilities have been. And there's a number of reasons for that. You can go back to the budget fights from a decade ago in sequestration, which, you know, had automatic budget cuts, including for the Defense Department when they couldn't get budget agreements done. You had slow processes for procurement. So there's been a number of things, and it's not just one party even that's overseeing it. What this allows us to do is invest in ourselves by also standing in solidarity with people who have seen unspeakable tragedy brought upon them. That's what this allows us to do. And it's among the reasons why America will be better off for making this investment, because it truly is an investment in our own military capabilities, not just that of Ukraine's. And that's going to ensure that we are prepared for whatever geopolitical threat comes. And that's one of the reasons you've seen support for Taiwan put into this bill. You've seen support for Israel put in this bill because we are not in a world in which we can kind of just pull up the drawbridge as much as we may like it and just focus on our own country anymore. We are too interconnected through technology globally. I mean, the fact is that you look at what China is doing in their fights in space. It's incredible and unthinkable to what we were looking at maybe a decade ago. We need to be prepared for not just the fights of yesterday and today, but the ones of tomorrow. And this investment allows us to do that.

Georgia Howe: Matt, thank you so much for joining us.

Matt Mowers: Thank you very much. Really appreciate it, John.

John Bickley: That was Matt Mowers, former senior White House advisor at the U.S. Department of State. And this has been an extra edition of Morning Wire.