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--:-- John Bickley: Welcome to Morning Wire, I'm John Bickley, Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Wire, and I'm here with my co-host Georgia Howe. It's Saturday, August 26th.
--:-- Georgia Howe: That's right, John. Today, we're talking about debanking, a growing trend that's canceling people's access to money based on their viewpoints.
--:-- John Bickley: That's right, Georgia. And joining us to discuss this issue is Radomir Talcote, Director of Research at the London-based Legatum Institute. Radomir, thanks for joining us.
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Thanks for having me on the show, John.
--:-- John Bickley: So, Radomir, let's start with the story of Nigel Farage, one of the architects of Brexit, who claimed his bank canceled his accounts last month over his political views.
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Yes, that's right. Nigel Farage claimed that Coots Bank had canceled his accounts for political reasons. Now, despite Coots's claim that Farage simply had insufficient funds, it turns out this was untrue. He was effectively debanked for having views that Coots and its new woke directors didn't like.
--:-- John Bickley: And this isn't an isolated incident, is it?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: No, there have been a flood of similar stories. For example, Richard Fothergill, a Church of England vicar, was debanked by the Yorkshire Building Society for responding to a customer survey by complaining about their use of a trans flag. It's a very Maoist approach to dealing with people who have differing views.
--:-- John Bickley: That's right. And this isn't just a UK problem, is it? We've seen similar issues in the US.
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Yes, that's right. For example, former Senator Sam Brownback had his account closed by JPMorgan Chase without explanation. And it's been reported that Cleo McDougald, a former Chase director, described an internal process called red dotting, where a flag on an internal record tells other divisions of the bank to avoid a client.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a chilling process. And what are people starting to do about this threat to their freedoms?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Well, we at the Legatum Institute are working with a conservative former minister, Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg MP, to table legislation to tackle this problem. The legislation would create a legal requirement for banks to respect their customers' right to lawful free speech and an obligation for transparency.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a great step forward. And you're calling this a financial habeas corpus, is that right?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Yes, that's right. We think this is like the shared common law principle that someone must be present to be tried. And likewise, people have to have due process on this. But the counterargument is that banks are private companies, and it's up to them who they do business with.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a valid point. But don't you think that, as a public utility, banking should be available to all credit-worthy people, regardless of their views?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Absolutely. And that's why ideological decisions have to be prescribed. For instance, what if a water company turned off the water supply if they didn't like Republicans? It's a principle of freedom that needs to apply to services like transfers and mortgages.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a great point. And what about the UK government's response to this issue?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Well, the government has announced that it's going to scrap laws imposed on Britain while we were in the European Union on so-called politically exposed persons or PEPs. But we think this won't make a difference, as banks will likely continue to cancel accounts based on ideological reasons.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a concern. And what about the US? Have you seen any equivalent to red dotting in the UK?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Well, this reminds me of a fairly sinister scheme in both the UK and US called a B Corp. And becoming a B Corp is a sort of woke certificate for companies that sign up to the scheme's ideology. It looks like this has really turbocharged the purging of conservatives.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a disturbing trend. And what's at stake here, Radomir? Why is this such a big deal for both our countries?
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Well, being debanked means being unpersoned. It means you cannot transact in our effectively cashless society anymore. You need a bank account to have a job. And so this is about enforcing a kind of serfdom. It's also a version of China's social credit system, and that will kill our prosperity.
--:-- John Bickley: That's a chilling conclusion. Radomir, thanks for shedding light on this important issue.
--:-- Radomir Talcote: Thank you, John.
--:-- John Bickley: And that's all for today's extra edition of Morning Wire. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you tomorrow.
--:-- Georgia Howe: Don't forget to follow us on social media and subscribe to our podcast for more daily coverage of the latest developments in politics, culture, education, sports, and more.
--:-- John Bickley: And if you want to support our work, you can visit our website at dailywire.com.
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