Disney’s Housing Venture, Truth Social’s Soft Launch, and Scott’s Voicemails

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher: You have like a library behind you with not very many books, I have to say.

Scott Galloway: And I've read none of them. Yeah. This is all an attempt to curate a series of novels that make me seem more interesting. If you right now, if you asked me to name one book behind me, I'd have trouble. Seriously.

Kara Swisher: What would you actually want to put behind you? Because I think that's what we should do. We're a genuine pair of people. What would you actually have behind you?

Scott Galloway: There's only one genuine Scott thing here, and that's I have a picture of my dog behind me. But it's funny. It's facing forward. I don't want to see it. I want other people to see it so they think I'm more interesting than I am.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. I'm looking. I literally haven't seen any.

Scott Galloway: Oh, my God. Iliad's the Odyssey.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, like I read that. Jesus Christ. That's an important story about the journey home. I have read that several times.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Fulfillment by Alec.

Kara Swisher: Oh, I definitely haven't read that, nor do I understand that.

Scott Galloway: Oh, there's a book called Boom. Norwegian Wood. What the fuck is going on here? Anyway, this has nothing to do with me.

Kara Swisher: Can I tell you a very brief story about books that you buy? Those are called books by the yard, essentially. I was in an Ikea, and I was buying a couch that I actually still own today. I was sitting on the couch and right next to it was a bookshelf with books in it. And someone, one of my books was in the bookshelf and it was actually signed to a person I knew very well who had obviously sold it to Books by the Yard. And I took it, I stole it from Ikea and then sent it back to them. What do you think about that?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I was waiting for a better payoff. What's the lesson here?

Kara Swisher: Oh, sorry. No, I just thought it was funny. Anyway, I was trying to talk about—

Scott Galloway: You thought wrong.

Kara Swisher: It's anecdotes like these that the fans tune in for. Scott is just mad because I was late today and he is early.

Scott Galloway: I was early. We have all this new equipment from this fancy schmancy Salesforce stuff. It's like pretty nice in here.

Kara Swisher: You're schmancy now. Listen, we never got to talk about Pivot Miami because you absconded to Mexico right after. Hola, amigos. ¿Dónde están los enemos? I talked to Casey and it was a fantastic show, if I do say so myself. We talked a lot about his encounter with Candace Owens and a bunch of other stuff. But I just love your little— I've already given my insights. What I thought was interesting. We obviously put up a bonus episode of Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb, who we interviewed together. I just would like to talk about what you thought was interesting very briefly.

Scott Galloway: At Pivot Miami?

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: Well, I think we should— Or have you forgotten about it? Have you moved on?

Kara Swisher: I think we should take two weeks off so we can start talking about next year. I mean, on behalf of our listeners, even I am sick of talking about Pivot Miami.

Scott Galloway: I liked it. I was nervous about it. I thought you did a great job creating the content. I felt— I've been to your Code Conference twice. So I think people come to Code for the audience. I think people came to this for the content. It was a younger audience. People seemed generally interested in learning. Yeah. I was really happy with it. I thought that it was a nice— people are— just a lot of young, nice people seemed curious to learn.

Kara Swisher: It's also very reaffirming. It's huge imposter syndrome. People come up to us and are very nice to us. I wonder when that music's going to stop.

Scott Galloway: It's called fans, Scott. It's actually people like you. They really like you. Go on.

Kara Swisher: That's because they don't know the real me. They know the person that reads a book called Sweet Dreams, The Story of New Romance.

Scott Galloway: Well, I would never read that. I would never read that. Truth is, I've written more books than I've read in the last two and a half years.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, that's what I figured. That's probably true, actually. Anyway, I thought it was a very successful. Is there one thing that stuck out? One fact? Interview? One interview? One of the speakers. Yeah, one thing that you took away. What was your takeaway, your single takeaway?

Scott Galloway: My single takeaway. You know, it's super rewarding for me, Jonathan Haidt and Aswath Damodaran. I think that at every university, there's one or two scholars that should and can change the world that have devoted their life to trying to damage the muscle in between young people's ears such that it grows back stronger and are just outstanding at what they do. And I don't think they get the— my ability to spread my content outpaces the quality of my content. And I'm fortunate enough to work with some people that have the opposite problem. So I love bringing some sunlight to Jonathan Haidt and Aswath Damodaran who both obviously get a tremendous amount of prestige and well-earned recognition. But I love putting them in that environment so other people— I would argue that they were— People were blown away. People were totally blown away. And that's what— and I rag a lot on— or I criticize higher education. But that's what a lot of kids get exposure to. They do get exposure to very interesting thought leaders. Those were— I'll call it the most rewarding moment. People love those. What was yours?

Kara Swisher: Compelling academics. I thought those were great. I thought— I think I didn't— someone asked me which one I didn't like. I didn't think there was a dud among them, I have to say. But I do think compelling academics are something we need to shine more light on. Because people do want to go— like I wish I'd go to college now versus then when I wasn't paying attention. Everyone said, I want to go back to school. And then cut out the shitty professors, essentially. And these were fantastic ones. What was your highlight?

Scott Galloway: What was your highlight?

Kara Swisher: Oh, I already talked about it. Lots and lots of them. I thought the whole thing. I liked the whole thing. I liked the audience. The audience was my highlight.

Scott Galloway: I hung out with Candace Owens and George Farmer for dinner.

Kara Swisher: Did you? How'd that go?

Scott Galloway: You know, first off, this counts for a lot, but they're both so hot. I think that's important.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. God, they're so good looking. That's your takeaway?

Scott Galloway: Their kids are going to be beautiful.

Kara Swisher: I interviewed him for—

Scott Galloway: They're having another one, I think.

Kara Swisher: Well, no, they have a 13-month-old, and they're having another one, so they're going to have plural. Don't try and shame me.

Scott Galloway: I'm going to shame you for them on their part. They wouldn't mind, I think.

Kara Swisher: Oh, they're so good-looking. And I interviewed him for CNN+.

Scott Galloway: You did. I thought he was a lovely young man. I really enjoyed getting to know him a little bit. Got some issues, although she did tweet something this week, and I got a lot of not good attention, where she said we should invade Canada and give Kooten a break, essentially.

Kara Swisher: Oh, no, no. Let me be clear. She's batshit crazy. Okay. But dinner over dinner over dinner. They're there. Charming. I found I enjoyed meeting both of them.

Scott Galloway: Good. That was a cool dinner.

Kara Swisher: That was a cool— I'm trying to engage in the other side. I know you are. I get that. I'm trying to engage.

Scott Galloway: You did a good job.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, so that today we're going to talk about Elon Musk's latest Twitter drama and Disney's new housing venture, which I was fascinated by. So it's a big day in Trump world. But first, obviously, Truth Social almost launched as we record this on Monday. Users who signed up on President's Day, which is today, were pushed to a waitlist with the message, "We love you, you're not just another number to us, but your waitlist number is below." Company representatives have said the app will resemble Twitter, and just like Twitter, you won't be able to edit your posts. They're going to have re-truths and truths, et cetera, that kind of stuff. The launch is slow. On a scale of smooth to Four Seasons Total Landscaping, where would you put it?

Scott Galloway: Well, we had that panel with Gettr and Parler. And first off, I just want to say thank you to Kaysu. I think he handled himself with a lot of aplomb on a very difficult topic that just inspires agita. I don't know, just a coarse discourse. But what we didn't talk about on the panel is that I think these conservative social media platforms, they want to have a conversation about censorship because they want to create a weapon of mass distraction. Because the bottom line is they're shitty businesses. They just aren't working. And the same thing is, I think, going to play out with Truth Social, and that is almost this thing will make Oculus look like a success. You're going to see data immediately, I believe, start to roll in. There's already been some of that. A, these guys don't know what they're doing. I don't see anybody involved in this thing that actually knows how to run a business.

Kara Swisher: Supposedly the Rumble people are helping them with the back end. That's what I understand.

Scott Galloway: Oh, is that right?

Kara Swisher: They're handling the infrastructure. But it sounds like it's already been delayed twice. They put out this waitlist thing today. It was already delayed once.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. And it's also got a— so I said two years ago that WeWork or three years ago was the most overvalued private company in the world. I think Truth Social may be the most overvalued private company in the world right now.

Kara Swisher: Oh, interesting. I think that's interesting.

Scott Galloway: And the moment they benefited from not having any data to validate or nullify that. But so many opportunities for fuck up, right? So that's what's really interesting is there's so many opportunities for fuck up. Oh, wait, wait. I'm sorry. My post-edibles tequila-induced brain is just kicking in. My favorite moment from Pivot Miami. I'm sorry, I'm going back.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: So I asked on stage. First off, I adore Brian Chesky. I think he's literally the leader of the business world needs right now more of.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: And makes a shit ton of money, creates a shit ton of shareholder value, which I think is important in a capitalist society. But I also think he generally kind of leads with his conscience and his heart. I asked him on stage when he was going to settle down. And I said, Brian, you're 40 and you're single. I'm not exaggerating. About 15 women came up to me in an hour and like, oh, hi, I wanted to meet you. I'd like to meet Brian Chesky. I am Tinder right now for Brian Chesky.

Kara Swisher: You're Tinder.

Scott Galloway: I'm Tinder with one person on it. And it's working really well. I'm not exaggerating. I'm getting text messages. Hey, we should go out.

Kara Swisher: Have you sent them to him?

Scott Galloway: We should go out and bring your friend Brian with you. Like, women I don't even know. Hey, do you know Brian? So I'm—

Kara Swisher: The nice billion. That would be a good TV show where he hides who he is, where he stays at Airbnbs. You know, it's sort of like Coming to America. And he says he's not a king or whatever. He's not a billionaire or whatever. It could be a really good show. It could be a good reality show. Everyone's like, this is so great.

Scott Galloway: So are you really good friends with Brian? Literally all these young, interesting women were like all of a sudden really interested in my relationship with Brian in a fucking second month. That was my favorite moment.

Kara Swisher: All right. Back to Truth Social. Sorry about that. Let's get very briefly. Thank you for that. I'll tell Brian he's very nervous about things like that. I think one of the things I tweeted was it's fun to dunk on Truth Social for the glitches, which this is common. This is not an unusual thing. But I'm still— I'm using it on my burner phone. I'm not doing it on my regular phone because like TikTok, I'm worried about security, privacy, annoying marketing. It's so cloaked in secrecy of who's running this thing because they give only their first names. So I just say buyer beware to anything with Trump, whether it's stakes or education or whatever. And it could be just a big zero, which I suspect not because necessarily it's Trump is that these things are hard to make. Social networks are hard to make. And once you make them, you have— I just think it's an uphill battle, and I don't think all these people are going to move from conservative social network to conservative. If I had to bet, Rumble would be the one I would bet on.

Scott Galloway: I don't know. I've heard nothing since you said you have a burner phone. The content on your burner phone would be a cross between a John Waters film and Christiane Amanpour. I don't even know what would be on there.

Kara Swisher: It's TikTok and Trump Social right now, and Facebook is on there.

Scott Galloway: If I had a burner phone, it would be much more interesting.

Kara Swisher: Okay, well, I do it to test things that I don't want on my regular phone. Now, I do think Apple's probably vetting it properly, but we'll see. We'll see where this all goes with Mr. Trump, but we'll see. Interestingly, another thing that's someone who's back is Netflix will make four new comedy specials hosted and produced by Dave Chappelle, who's super talented but has some controversy. Like a character in Squid Game, Netflix is going back to the brutal arena by choice. The series will be called Dave Chappelle's Home Team and will highlight guest comedians introduced by Chappelle himself. Cancel culture destroys yet another career, as it turns out not. What do we think?

Scott Galloway: It's fine. That's what they want to be in the Dave Chappelle business. They can.

Kara Swisher: Well, the operative term there is he— I think the guy is a genius. I think he is one of the most incisive comedians in the world. And you don't have to agree with 100 percent of what he says. And if enough of what you don't agree with upsets you, then don't watch the show. And if you get really angry, good for you. You can cancel your Netflix subscription. That's the wonderful thing about living in a capitalist society. But Dave Chappelle, as long as he continues to demonstrate that type of genius. And I don't think— you cannot agree. I actually think the dialogue he catalyzed was a productive dialogue.

Scott Galloway: I don't think— I think he's weirdly obsessed with trans people.

Kara Swisher: I'm sorry. No, actually, you know what? I think he's weirdly obsessed with any criticism of him.

Scott Galloway: Yes, that's true. Fair point. Fair point. Fair point.

Kara Swisher: But he just— I don't— Mostly it was like, stop talking about this. Can you talk about anything else? Like, that's what I felt. Like, it started to be unfunny. Guys like that, when you tell a man who's in his 30s or 40s that they're Jesus Christ, they're inclined to believe you. And can you imagine how many people have been telling David Chappelle, you're a genius. And then when he gets that kind of onslaught of criticism, some of it justified, some of it not, I think he has trouble processing it and dealing with it.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. And that's what I didn't like about his last show was he should have said, this is what I agree with, this is what I don't agree with. And then he should have got back to the comedy. Instead, he spent like an hour trying to say, but I'm right.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. And I didn't think it was a productive conversation.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I would agree. I was sort of like, I wish you would have a sense of humor about this.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, like, you know. It's kind of fun. Anyways, but you're right. I think he's stronger than ever. I don't. Yeah. And I think for him to claim that he's been canceled.

Scott Galloway: Did he claim he'd been canceled?

Kara Swisher: Kind of. Yes, he did.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, he did.

Kara Swisher: You know, it's interesting. There was a good story in the Atlantic about this, these sort of in-your-face populists who are all incredibly rich people. It was just kind of funny. And I think they like, I'll do what I want, the man, this and that. And so whatever. Look, watch him or don't watch him. That's what you should do. That's our advice. So let's get to our first big story. Elon Musk says the SEC, speaking of people who can't say what they want, Elon Musk says the SEC is coming for his free speech. In a court filing, Musk's lawyer said the SEC is targeting the billionaire with a quote-unquote harassment campaign. The lawyer says it's because he's a critic of the government. But Musk's biggest target last week wasn't even the U.S. government, it was Canada's. Musk tweeted a meme comparing Canada's Justin Trudeau to Hitler. Always a favorite thing, doing Hitler memes. He deleted it a short time later. He also accused the SEC of sitting on $40 million that he says is supposed to go to Tesla shareholders. That $40 million comes from a fine that Tesla and Musk paid to the SEC over— what else? His tweets over the years when he did funding secured. He just doesn't like to follow the law. He doesn't like stop signs, it feels like. So it drew a lot of ire from activists like John Greenblatt, who we've had on the show of the ADL and some in the press. Again, the Tesla board, nowhere. What do you think? I thought it was tasteless once again, but what do you think?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, look, there's just certain places you don't go. If you're a white person, you never use the N-word in any context. That's just whatever. That's just a no-no. You can, but you get the consequences. You just don't. I've told my boys that. In any context, you never use that word.

Kara Swisher: I would agree.

Scott Galloway: You never use the C-word. Unless you live in Britain for over 10 years, and I think you get domain and ownership of the C-word.

Kara Swisher: Yes, you can.

Scott Galloway: But you never make a reference, a casual reference to Hitler. You just don't. And it reflects— there's a couple of things. One, there's obvious and then the second order effect that I've been thinking a lot about. And that is it reflects poorly on him that he clearly doesn't have what I call great judgment. It's impossible to understand how this improves stakeholder value at Tesla. Any reasonable analysis, I think he was high when he did it. I can't understand anyone doing this sober. But any reasonable analysis of, okay, I'm going to go to 60 million people in the entire world and compare the Canadian prime minister to Hitler, that's not going to sell more cars. That is not going to even get the kind of attention that you want. It's just dumb, for lack of a better word. Not even dumb, stupid. But the other thing is, because I believe that one of the great crises emerging in our society is young men not connecting to relationships. And I think the relationships, especially for young men, and they're important for everybody because they're the most rewarding thing in life. But the other thing that's really important for young men especially, who I don't think develop as quickly and are more aggressive and more risk aggressive, is they need guideposts. They need guardrails. And relationships are fantastic guardrails, whether it's good friends, whether it's mentors, whether it's a girlfriend telling you to put on a shirt and blow dry your hair and get a fucking job and stop drinking during the week, whatever it might be, young men are desperate for guardrails. And what I see about Elon Musk is even the wealthiest man in the world and arguably one of the most important figures and a genius and technological brilliance. I don't think this guy has any guardrails.

Kara Swisher: Well, the thing is he has a very large family. Many people have told me he's a tremendous father. He's got lots of girlfriends, wives, et cetera. He's very close with his family, for sure, with his mom and his brothers and sister, I think. And so it is interesting. He's not like a— Brian Chesky was talking about being lonely, which was interesting as a CEO and a person during COVID. I think Musk is surrounded by a lot of people. He's got a lot of friends.

Scott Galloway: There's a difference. What I'm talking about specifically is when I say something stupid, Bill Berkeley, who's this older president at NYU, calls me, doesn't even introduce himself, he'll start the conversation with, "That was a stupid thing to say."

Kara Swisher: Oh, I thought I was that person.

Scott Galloway: Well, you do that. You do that sometimes. But I have people in my life who will call me because they care enough about me to say, you are fucking up here. You need to reconsider this viewpoint, this decision. That is an enormously important thing for somebody. And it's more than friends. It's more than family. It's people. It is very hard to read the label from inside of the bottle. Your board of directors in a corporate setting is supposed to call you and say, you cannot put out tweets referencing the stock price or saying you're taking the company private. You should never call someone you have never met who is much less powerful than you a pedophile. You should never do that. You should never make references to Hitler. You should not make profane comments about sitting U.S. senators. He clearly has nothing resembling guardrails. And without guardrails, you begin to believe your own press and believe you're immune from the blowback.

Kara Swisher: He's very id. He's a very id person in general. And I think that's hard. And there is nobody. You know, I think Brian said, actually, it's interesting, the contrast, because he said that nobody, you don't get told. You think you could do anything. Remember he had that whole section in our interview? You get told you could do anything, you get fed it, and no one tells you you can't do anything. And he was more upset by the consequences of his decisions. He talked, remember, everything's coming home to roost. Then Elon just blows past them. And it's a different personality. It's a different person. But I think he was right, is that you get to be non-human, and especially when you're wealthy, and you don't feel, you become inhuman in a lot of ways. And I think there is a class of leader, all wealthy, mostly white, I think pretty much, who are like, don't tell me what to do. You don't tell me what to do. I get to say what I want. I think it drips down into the society very badly. I remember many years ago, everyone's like, this is a new trend. I'm like, when I was in college, a guy ran for president of the student body who was like the party platformer. We hate government platform. And he won because everyone was like, yeah, screw this. You know, we had the shittiest year because there was someone who ran who really wanted to sort of help students and get the things you want, lower book prices, whatever it was. And the other guy was like, party on, and he won. And there's a love of that by people that I think is absolutely at play here with all these people, not just Elon, but Joe Rogan or Dave Chappelle or, you know, there's a list of them that are like this. That, again, they say, screw the man, but they're kind of the man, right? Like, so it's a weird situation that they're so worshipped by certain classes.

Scott Galloway: Look, I think, and I've been saying this forever, and it's the hill I'm going to die on. I think that right now Tesla is a— Well, it's down. He has other things to worry about, right? Is a drunk tourist walking home with a new blow watch. I think they're about to be robbed of about $200 to $500 billion. And the same person that, unfortunately, is filling in this void of the SEC and the government is going to do the thievery, and that's going to be Tim Cook. If you look at the J.D. Power rankings that just came out where Tesla went way down, if you look at the recalls, if you look at his what I would call consistent demonstration of really poor judgment, it all spells. And then you look at Apple, which has said, OK, the auto industry used to be a shitty low margin manufacturing business. It's changed to a higher margin software business. We have the best brand in the world. Look, and I've been saying this for a long time and I've been wrong for a long time. I just think this is a very, this type of behavior. It's not karma. I don't believe in karma. I've known really good people who live hard lives and then die miserable deaths. I know bad people who have lived great lives and die in their sleep. I don't believe in karma, but this is a negative looking forward indicator, this kind of really terrible judgment.

Kara Swisher: Well, although it's sort of like Trump. It's like this time, like he's got the law all over his ass and people are like, maybe he'll get out of it. One term president.

Scott Galloway: Fair point, but still I'm still not doing that badly and it's launched a sort of probably shitty social media network anyway.

Kara Swisher: It's an interesting issue, and I don't think we're going to look to the board anymore. We always ask where is the board? Like who? They're not there. Let's just move along on that one and we'll see if it'll work. I don't think it eventually does work. The SEC, everybody else plays by these rules. Most of them are pretty fair. You can't pick and choose rules you don't like. Sometimes some of them you can argue with, but others are stupid.

Scott Galloway: I would agree. I've talked to Mark Cuban about this. Some of the SEC stuff is onerous and ridiculous. Other stuff is there for a good reason.

Kara Swisher: So anyway, he's just pressing on a weak point of the government.

Scott Galloway: I would— but just going back to the central issue, I think every boy and girl, every kid desperately needs somebody who every day tells them they're amazing and that they are loved. I think that's— I think every kid needs that. Every man and I think every woman needs somebody. You need to actively cultivate people in your life who will tell you and call you when you are wrong and check you. And you lose those people as you get wealthier because you start inevitably surrounding yourself with people who just say, we don't like pain. It's uncomfortable to hear you said something stupid. But it's uncomfortable to say that was inappropriate or you've fucked up. You don't like to hear it. It is really important. And you need to actively cultivate those relationships and tell people that you appreciate their candor and their guidance. Because I'll tell you, it's like parenting. I think the hardest part about parenting isn't time, isn't engagement, isn't loving my kids that come naturally to me. The hardest part for me is disciplining them and saying, you screwed up here and the ramifications. I find that to be the hardest thing. And adult people need that. I think especially adult men who are successful. You need to absolutely cultivate those types of guardrails.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, 100%. I actually just had a conversation with one of my sons. I'm not going to say which one. But it was about something new that's happened. I'm like, I'm glad about this, but here's my one rule that if you break, it's going to be a problem. You know what I mean? And it was good. It was a really good discussion.

Scott Galloway: Do you want to share the one rule?

Kara Swisher: No, I don't. But in any case, it was around women and how to treat them. That's what it was about. So you know, the lesbians come down hard when you don't treat women right. That's all I have to say. I had a discussion with all— I will have a discussion with all the kids about that, about how you treat women. So anyway.

Scott Galloway: And they welcome it, I suspect.

Kara Swisher: I think they do welcome it because they like rules. They do in some ways. In other ways, they don't. By the way, Elon Musk is going to keep tweeting. So whatever. He'll either pay the price or he won't. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Disney's new venture into real estate. Interesting. And take some very unusual listener mails from a gift I gave to Scott at the end of the conference.

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Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with our second big story. Disney wants to be your next landlord. The entertainment company says it will develop a string of planned communities around the country. The first development of 1,900 units is slated to open in California's Coachella Valley. Disney employees will run the community association as well as wellness programs, entertainment. It's not clear if it'll be Disney branded. Other people can come into it and use it, but there's stuff that's only for the community. Anyway, there's a whole 55 and over vibe to some of it, I think, parts of it. I think it's actually fascinating. Disney obviously has domain knowledge and development and experiential. I don't think this is a bad idea, actually, thinking about where elderly people are going to go necessarily or how you redesign. I had an interesting meeting in Miami with Adam Neumann. I'm not going to talk about it because I was off the record, but he's working in real estate, which is interesting to me. And I do think, as you say, this is the, besides the virtual real estate you did talk about at the conference, what do you think about this?

Scott Galloway: I think it's a great idea. I agree with you. Disney creates an environment. It's holistic family fun. It's manicured, their attention to detail. You feel safe at Disneyland. You feel inspired. You feel hopeful. Why wouldn't you take those attributes and that operational excellence? And they've done it. They have communities called Celebration. My sense is they're just expanding that. The problem they have, it has to be perfect because people think of them as perfect. So they're going to get legal action no matter what if it's not perfect.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, but this appeals to me because I am like a Disney princess, and that is I think the world revolves around me. So one of the things that's interesting is whether you, this idea that we talk about a lot, is trusting a pro. I was just talking to someone before the reason I was late to this thing was about that idea of trusting brands with other things. Like Apple, you might trust doing banking or the car beyond what you already trust them. And people have that feeling about Disney. It's one of those brands that they like. My brother loves Disney and he vacations there and likes the whole meme, essentially. Other people would say Disney owns your whole life. But one of the things I did think about as I was thinking about this and thinking about what Adam Neumann's doing and some of the stuff you've talked about is that this is, and some stuff in my own life, like figuring out things around parents and things like that, is that it really is so hard to figure out at all, like where you would go to retire. It's so dispersed and artisanal and not organized and run by individual people and you don't know what's good and what's not. There is kind of something comforting to a Disney brand, especially if they were doing senior living or whatever, that feels like possibly a little, it needs organization. That's how I walk away from it.

Scott Galloway: Can you imagine, this has so much potential. I mean, this is no greater a stretch than Disney going to cruises. And my sense is that's been hugely successful. They're so good. I went on it, you know, Bob Iger made me go on it to come on Code one year. And I have to say, even though I was in agony, it was beautifully done.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's the first time I've ever considered taking a cruise was to do the Star Wars thing with my sons. But can you imagine a great seniors or active living place run by Disney and they purposely had three or four times? My favorite, my in-laws' favorite day is Grandparents Day. What about a community that had the best Grandparents Days ever? They got their grandkids to look forward to going to see Nana and Pop-Pop. I mean, they could, it's a really well-run organization with incredible trust.

Scott Galloway: The weird thing about, the reason why I think housing's so popular is housing's one of the largest categories in the world that really doesn't have great brands. And that is, I mean, is it Pulte? Is it Lanier? Like, what are the great brands in residential housing? There isn't. I have to say, looking around, you literally Google everything. It's crazy.

Kara Swisher: I'm like, why isn't this organized? I was like, maybe Scott and I should give up podcasting and open a series of senior living communities for fun. We're the naughty community.

Scott Galloway: There you go. Yeah, the mind runs crazy there. But look, when I was looking for a place for my mom to retire, you're desperate for a brand because a brand is essentially a weapon of mass diligence.

Kara Swisher: And trust.

Scott Galloway: And trust. Yeah. And so I zeroed in on Del Webb. There's a great company down here called Coulter that builds a lot of active living communities. But they're regional. They don't have huge scale. And it's hard to tell how they differentiate themselves. Employees, same thing with, like, what if they're bad employees? What if they steal? Like, you think about those things all the time. You know, I had a grandparent who got stolen from, and it just was because we didn't do enough due diligence. It was hard to do due diligence. This is, I think this is a great idea. They do it, and you're right. Cruises is the right comparison. And then it's a question of how the real life things like mold and construction. It's got to be impeccable depending on the price range, right?

Kara Swisher: It's got to be impeccable. It has to be impeccable at the lower price range. And that's what I really liked about the Disney cruise I was on is that there were people who bought the higher ones and there were people who bought the lower. Everybody got a great experience. The people at the lower didn't get necessarily – they got a lesser room maybe or a smaller room, but they didn't get a lesser experience. And it wasn't lesser. It definitely wasn't. And then everybody got soft serve all the time, which I thought was the best thing ever. And it was perfect soft serve. It never was broken. So if they do it right, they could really do it right. There's so much innovation. If they went into the seniors living, they could have a fast pass where you skip the doctor's office and go straight to the ICU.

Scott Galloway: That's good Disney humor.

Kara Swisher: It's not good Disney humor. But I find myself using Disney Plus more and more, I have to say.

Scott Galloway: I am. They have a lot of good brands, National Geographic. Great content. I am using it more. I'm using Netflix a lot. I use HBO Max and Disney. Those are the three I use a lot more than any of the others.

Kara Swisher: It's interesting. And I've just started to use more Peacock because of Yellowstone.

Scott Galloway: Peacock? Peacock. Oh, God. They just doubled their viewership. You're on Peacock now?

Kara Swisher: Peacock. I call it Peacock.

Scott Galloway: Peacock? That's what I call it.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, just like CNN Plus. I call it Peacock.

Scott Galloway: There you go. That's right. It's more exotic.

Kara Swisher: Wait, what is Peacock Havana that you're watching? Yellowstone.

Scott Galloway: Yellowstone. That's only on Peacock?

Kara Swisher: They have a couple shows. They have a couple shows. They have a few. They do. Amazon has less, although I just was watching Marvelous Mrs. Maisel's back, and so I'm back on Amazon. Apple, I haven't used that much because I'm not a Ted Lasso fan.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, Apple doesn't have a ton. But they've got one, Severance. We're going to have Ben.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's on Apple TV? We got to watch that.

Scott Galloway: Yes, we got to watch that. I'm good.

Kara Swisher: You better. You better have done your homework on that one. Anyway, he's a fan of ours, and we're going to have him on to talk about it. It's quite good. Maybe you can come on and talk about Pivot Miami. I know the listeners want to hear more of that.

Kara Swisher: Let's pivot to some listener mail. You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. Last week, as our conference got out, I had a plane fly around Miami Beach with your phone number on the banner.

Scott Galloway: You did. We got some nice messages from attendees and some interesting messages from various beachgoers. Let's listen.

[Voicemail plays] Caller 1: Hey, Scott, you said to hit you up next time I'm in New York, but you never gave me your numbers. So thanks to Kara for posting it in the sky. I hope it's right. Anyway, loved your session, as well as Aslop and Brian's, met so many amazing people across different industries and could not speak more highly about the entire Pivot MIA experience. Thanks again. Can't wait for the next one. See you soon.

Caller 2: God damn it, Scott, you got me. But hey, love you. Love the show. Love the dog. That's good podcast humor.

Caller 3: Hey, man. I just seen a motherfucking number in the sky, man. I don't know what none of that cryptocurrency shit's talking about. But that bitch thing, XO car. I think you cheated on the whole boy. Ain't gonna lie to you, but shit. Good luck, girl.

Caller 4: Hey, Scott. We saw your advertisement in the sky. We're just calling you to party. Give us a call back. Bye-bye.

[Voicemail ends]

Kara Swisher: And then there's one more. This one came from an audience member who saw our panel about Quinn, an app for audio erotica. That was Carolyn Spiegel, who was terrific. That was a great session. Let's listen.

[Voicemail plays] Caller 5: Hi. I was at the conference and I'm on the Quinn website now and I'm trying to find the section with Karen Scott's playlist. If you could help me, I'll take my answer offline.

[Voicemail ends]

Scott Galloway: That sounded like George Hahn. Was that George Hahn? I literally think they're all just using me to get to Brian Chesky.

Kara Swisher: That does sound like George Hahn. That's true. That was so much fun. That was a good thing. I got to say, can I just say, you don't thank people who work behind the scenes as much. The New York Magazine gang is so creative. Our own staff is amazing. But the New York Magazine gang, too, did a lot of the stuff on the extra, the marketing, all these fun stuff. And that was perfection. What a creative, interesting group of people we work with.

Scott Galloway: We're so lucky in that regard.

Kara Swisher: We are lucky.

Scott Galloway: Greatness is in the agency of others. No doubt about it.

Kara Swisher: Keep calling Scott, everybody, because he needs more people, because he needs more guardrails. And Brian needs more dates.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, keep calling me.

Kara Swisher: More dates. Yeah, that's a different number. We'll come up with a number like that. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot or call 855-51-PIVOT to submit a question for the show. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Scott, give us this week's wins and fails.

Scott Galloway: We win. That win. That what I have to say but go we win. Do you those are yours? There's a movie I saw that I really liked. I mean I called it was called Gunpowder Milkshake. It didn't get a lot of attention. It's with like I think it's Lena Headey and Michelle Yeoh and it's about women kicking ass and shooting everybody and knifing everybody. It was great. That would be a win. I just saw it on the plane so it was a plane movie. Nice. It was great. I think fails was, is this, this, this thing I'm starting to think about called the exhausted middle. You know, the majority, exhausted majority that you and I have talked about. I think there's a switch with people who are just tired of all the screaming and want, this thing with Ukraine, which we haven't talked about because we're not experts in this area and probably we should have someone on who is, really does. We need competent people working for us. And I think people are tired of a lot of stuff. And as coming out of the pandemic, as all these governors, including all the Democratic ones, are switching to endemic, I think the people who continue to yell and creating Trump Socials, one of those things, are on the wrong side of where we're going forward. All right. That's my win and fail.

Kara Swisher: Nice. So my fail is this what I feel kind of hateful trend around legislation, most recently evidenced by in Florida, the Don't Say Gay legislation, that basically is going to prohibit teachers from having conversations around LGBTQ equality. I understand, I was sympathetic to some of the notions around parents' concern that if you're going to have a conversation on hormone therapy with my child, I want to be informed. I get that. But what this is is nothing but further evidence of a very dangerous trend that I think always reverse engineers to a bunch of presidential hopefuls posing for a 55-year-old evangelical white guy in Iowa. And I say this with some credibility. I have served on the board of my kids' school here in Florida. I have lived here for 10 years. My school is what I'd call center right. Parents, you can trust me when I tell you the teachers there are not trying to turn your kids gay. They're just not. They're not trying to turn your kids straight. We're focused on math and English and ensuring that kids are raised in a supportive environment. And to not talk about sexuality in some fashion at some point with 12, 13, 14, younger and older kids is to ignore biology and to ignore – it just is – this is nothing but basically a giant fuck you to a vulnerable community. And to not – it strikes me as, okay, we're inventing problems where there don't need to be any. And Republicans are big fans. One of the things I like about GOP philosophies and principles is the notion that you should have autonomy, that businesses and people should make their own decisions and be responsible and accountable and have the authority to make their own decisions. And that schools should make – they say, I don't agree with this. Schools should make their own decisions around whether or not they arm their own security guards. I get the argument. But then when it comes to what we discuss and how we decide to introduce topics around equality, they've decided you're not supposed to say these words. And you don't want to let us in the schools figure out what we should be doing. And all this is is tapping into a very ugly, ugly trend that is growing bigger and bigger in the U.S. And again, it all, in my opinion, reverse engineers to income inequality and unsuccessful young men who are looking for people to blame and finding vulnerable communities. And now it is infecting our schools.

Kara Swisher: I would agree. I can't believe we're having this happen after years of fighting for equal rights and not more rights, equal rights. I can't even tell you how difficult and dangerous it felt to be closeted as a kid. I knew I was gay since I was four. If that had happened, if the school had informed my mom, it would have been terrible, devastating to my psyche. If they had not been able to, they weren't able to talk about it. They never did talk about it. And I have to say it was damaging. I had to go find and ferret out information myself. It was a very, to go back to that is sickening to think about with kids. And that Florida, you know, it's one topic I didn't, we didn't talk about enough in Florida. It's an issue. I have Florida, if they do this, I got to say, I don't think I would bring Pivot Miami back there. I don't know. I would take it to another state that had more. But this is someone who lived through that. It's the worst. Being closeted is the worst.

Scott Galloway: I want to reassure you and other people who are thinking about Florida, people in Florida and people on the board of schools in Florida, are, love their children and want to have these conversations or not have them and make good decisions around what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. And we don't need the government posing for a right-wing evangelical straw in Iowa, putting in place hateful legislation. The National School Climate Survey that was done in 2019 showed that 77% of LGBTQ students said they avoided a school function because they felt unsafe or uncomfortable. So we need to go the other way. And another thing I used to like about the GOP, I believe we're a secular society. We should absolutely separate church and state. But there is something to the notion that religious values, when they start with a place of love, they start with a place of forgiveness, that there's a role for that in America. And I appreciate temples, churches, and mosques, even though I'm an atheist. And this couldn't be more contrary to the very basics of faith, acceptance, love.

Kara Swisher: Although, Scott, I have to say, I get the idea that parents want the best thing. They don't want the best thing for your kids when you're gay. Let me just say, when you're Jewish or black, your parents get your experience. When you're gay, many, many parents are your enemy. And they are. I'm sorry. It's just they do not understand. It is embarrassing to them. It is whatever weirdness they have around it themselves. They are often not your ally. Many, many, many parents are. But boy, many, many, many aren't. And it's so damaging to hide. I think about it even today. It makes me sick to my stomach to remember that. So, it's disgusting what's happening.

Scott Galloway: I think you can speak to that, and I take your words very seriously because I can't. And that's illuminating for me. I hadn't really thought of it in that way.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, let me just tell you, Scott, I'm gay.

Scott Galloway: I heard. I heard.

Kara Swisher: I came out early because of that, because of the power people had over me of silence and hiding. I came out very early because I was like, you know what? I'm going to take this one off the table for you awful people. I kept trying to come out of straight, but no one would participate with me.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, that's what you say. Anyways.

Kara Swisher: That's what you say. My mother's on to you on the phone.

Scott Galloway: Oh, my God. Anyway.

Kara Swisher: But look, I find this incredibly discouraging. And what I would want Republican legislators to know from those of us at schools, we're doing just fine. And we don't need this type of legislation that is not necessary and really nothing but an expression of hate. That's all this is. Grotesque, Ron DeSantis.

Scott Galloway: That's what we're saying, essentially.

Kara Swisher: You want my win? What's your win?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, yeah, what's your win?

Kara Swisher: My win? Oh, my gosh. I am so excited. They came, they saw, they curled. The British, the gold medal, the only gold medal in the Olympic Games goes to the women's curling team. This caps a remarkable turnaround for, I think her name is Gwen Muirhead, the Iron Lady of Curling.

Scott Galloway: Now, that's a great tag, the Iron Lady of Curling. Nobody's watching this. You know that. Nobody's watching this.

Kara Swisher: Her teammates, actually 700,000 people in Britain stayed up in the early morning. This is really, this is the best of the Olympics. It's Vicky Wright, Jen Dodds, Haley Duff. They got COVID before the games. They had a stunning turnaround. They absolutely dominated Japan in the finals. And it's a wonderful story. One is a nurse. One works in a gardening supply store. And I mean, you want to talk about ice cold nerves. You want to talk about sweeping. Oh, my God. But it's really a wonderful story. And at the end of the day, the Olympics are supposed to be a celebration of amateur athletics and people who are passionate about something. And this brought all of that together.

Scott Galloway: And also-

Kara Swisher: I have to say, every time I see curling, I forgot about it from before. I'm like, what are they doing? Oh, it's awesome. Like that's every, I'm like, what are they, every time I forget that it's-

Scott Galloway: Oh, come on. The sight of Muirhead dramatically clearing out a Japanese stone to score four for time. This was a victory. This was a gold medal for Scotland. These are all Scottish women.

Kara Swisher: Can I just give another thing? The Queen has COVID and put out a very congratulatory thing. That's how I noticed the curling thing. The Queen got COVID from apparently Charles, et cetera, et cetera. But she is 95 or something like that. So I say good for the queen for continuing to do her job despite getting COVID at this advanced age. And I hope she does well.

Scott Galloway: Right. Well, thanks for hijacking my win.

Kara Swisher: Let me just finish here. No, it's okay. My win is the Iron Lady of curling. But also I just want her teammates, Vicki Wright, Jen Dodds, Haley Duff. This is your moment in the sun, on the ice. Congratulations.

Scott Galloway: Congratulations. But to your thing about the queen, think about how wonderful vaccines are. What if we had found out 18 months ago that the queen had COVID? It would have been, oh, no. Oh, no. Now what's the feeling? Good for her. She's maintaining her light duties. I think most of us believe that she's going to see 96 and 97. I'm a wee bit worried. I'm still worried. Think about what a gift these vaccines have been.

Kara Swisher: Yes, I agree, but I'm still worried for the queen. I like this queen. Whatever. I'm looking forward to the next season of The Crown, too, where she doesn't come off as well. Anyway, Scott, I'm glad. That's enough curling content for this show, I think. I feel like we're heavy on curling content.

Scott Galloway: Don't try and sweep me away. Get it? Sweep.

Kara Swisher: I'm going to sweep you away. I got you. I got it. Got it. Okay, Scott. You and I are going to do curling together to become closer.

Scott Galloway: You always promise dates that never happen. You're literally like my dad promising the rabbit jacket for my mom.

Kara Swisher: Just don't go there.

Scott Galloway: It never came.

Kara Swisher: The rabbit jacket and I are going to show up. We're going to curl. Not in Florida, though, because they don't like gay people.

Scott Galloway: We love gay people in Florida. No? Okay, sure.

Kara Swisher: That's what you say. Then get out there and stop that legislation.

Scott Galloway: Our brothers and sisters, you are welcome and loved and appreciated here.

Kara Swisher: Thank you, Scott. Okay, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday with more Pivot. Scott, read us out.

Scott Galloway: Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin, and Ernie Indertot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mia Silverio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back on Friday for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Let's embrace religion. Let's embrace America or let's embrace the basics of religion. Let's be loving. Let's welcome our brothers and sisters from every religion, from every background, from every ethnicity, and from every sexual orientation. That's not what Florida's about. It's what America is about. Let's embrace those principles. Say no to this bullshit hate. That is, it is ugly. It is not Florida. It is definitely not America.