The Harris Campaign's Got Jokes, Tubi's Taking Over, and Mike Birbiglia's Our Co-Host

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. As Scott Free August rolls on, we've got another amazing guest co-host, one of my favorite people, comedian Mike Birbiglia. Mike, hi, how you doing?

Mike Birbiglia: I'm so honored to be here. I can't believe it. I'm a pivot head.

Kara Swisher: You are a pivot head. People don't realize how many pivot heads we have. We have them everywhere. Your wife said to me this week, because I asked her for advice, Amanda, I go, what do you have advice for doing the show? She goes, just listen to a couple episodes. You'll get a feel for it. I go, I've listened to a hundred episodes.

Mike Birbiglia: And you still don't have a feel for it?

Kara Swisher: No, no, I'm worried. I'm intimidated by both you and Scott.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, well, Scott's not here. He's somewhere in Nantucket. I'm actually in Martha's Vineyard.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's nice.

Mike Birbiglia: With my four children and Amanda also.

Kara Swisher: Oh, that's very nice.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, they went to the county fair today to keep the house quiet because they're very loud, all four of them together. It's like a herd of thundering elephants.

Kara Swisher: So are you going on vacation this summer?

Mike Birbiglia: Well, very unique life experience. We went to Rome and I met the Pope.

Kara Swisher: Yes, that. I heard about that.

Mike Birbiglia: Which is a very strange experience with Stephen Colbert and Chris Rock and a bunch of comedians. And then, yeah, we've been lucky enough to go to Long Island and go to the beach. So that's been great.

Kara Swisher: Oh, good. Zero in on the Pope thing. Explain what happened with the Pope.

Mike Birbiglia: The Pope? The Pope is interesting because he's... Okay.

Kara Swisher: I would assume so.

Mike Birbiglia: I got a call from Jim Gaffigan in May and basically said, the Pope wants to talk to some American comedians and you're on the list. And I was very reluctant. I was raised Catholic in the 80s, which is the spotlight era. It's not exactly great stuff. But the more I researched on this pope, he's pretty good compared to the other popes.

Kara Swisher: Well, it's a low bar, but go ahead.

Mike Birbiglia: Well, this is one of those things. It's like he blesses gay couples. He welcomes divorced couples back into the church. All these things you go, oh, the other popes didn't do that.

Kara Swisher: All right. Well, incremental progress here.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, they didn't. So you went. So I went and he gave a speech. Which was funny because he gave a speech to a bunch of comedians about comedy, which I thought was odd. It was like me going to NASA and being like, let me tell you a few things about rockets. We should fly them and maybe make them. But first make them and then fly them.

Kara Swisher: Was it funny?

Mike Birbiglia: It was not funny per se, but it was compelling. And it was sweet. He really believes in the power of comedy uniting people, humor uniting people. And I believe in that, too. And so I was very moved by it, even though my feeling about the Catholic Church is very complicated.

Kara Swisher: But you were in the Sistine Chapel, right?

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, I went to the Sistine Chapel. The speech was in one of the salas. It was one of the side rooms that was gorgeous. But yeah, I went to Sistine Chapel and, yeah, the whole thing.

Kara Swisher: And you went with, what, Jim Gaffigan? Who else was there? Chris Rock?

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, Jim Gaffigan, Stephen Colbert, Chris Rock, you know, like Whoopi Goldberg. It was very interesting. David Sedaris. Julie Louise Dreyfus went. She told me about it.

Kara Swisher: Yes.

Mike Birbiglia: Julie Louise Dreyfus, who I'd never met. And it was an astonishing. I was definitely the lowest on the list. But somehow I got this invite and I took my wife and daughter. And it's a weird thing because I'm at this point. You saw my show in D.C. where I talk about I'm trying to figure out how to raise my daughter and what to teach her about worldview. And I'm walking her around the Vatican. I'm going like, you know, this is what I was raised in. I don't necessarily believe in it anymore. Or you can. Grandma does. A lot of this artwork is stolen. You shouldn't steal things. But if you do, don't give it back. That's the lesson of the Vatican. Don't give it back.

Kara Swisher: Nice. Good parenting. Good parenting. But, you know, you've also had a busy summer. Your new show, Please Stop the Ride. You were nominated for an Emmy and the Pope at the same time, right?

Mike Birbiglia: I've had a wild summer. Yeah. My last show, which you saw at Lincoln Center called The Old Man in the Pool, was nominated as a Netflix special for comedy writing. And this is new for me. I've never been nominated for an Emmy. This is all me being in Hollywood or show business at all is a very unique thing. It's not something I'm usually involved with. So I'm very honored.

Kara Swisher: And you've been taking your new show. It's called Please Stop This Ride, correct?

Mike Birbiglia: It's called Please Stop the Ride, yeah. You had a different name for it, correct?

Kara Swisher: The Good Life is the other title that I'm playing with right now. And I'm actually filming that in March, the final version of it, for my next special. So I think it's going to be called The Good Life. It's a lot about, like, what do I teach my daughter? And then in relation to, like, what I've learned from my parents. And my complicated relationship, you and I have talked about this. You came to the show in D.C. and we went out afterwards and we talked about our parents and the challenges of having parents who have entirely different views of politics in the world and how you love them. But you also feel like sometimes it's a very challenging thing to even have these conversations about probably the topics we'll talk about today.

Mike Birbiglia: Exactly. The parts about your dad were very moving, especially in your relationship with him.

Kara Swisher: Thanks. Yeah, I mean, I think I talk about how my dad, I don't think I even say it outright, but I believe he voted for Trump. I mean, we never talk about it overtly. But I feel like the writing is on the wall and the conversations. And ultimately, you talk about how all you can do is express kindness and love to people who have loved you. And that's all we can do. And that's sort of, I say in the show, that's the good life. That's all you can do.

Mike Birbiglia: Yes, that is correct. It's a wonderful show, by the way. And also, Old Man in the Pool. So who are you up against for the Emmy? Alex Edelman, right?

Kara Swisher: Alex Edelman's in there. He mentioned it to me. He texted me. He's like, why am I not on your show? Are you serious? He's teasing. Yeah, no, Alex is great. Just for Us was on Broadway. And then Jacqueline Novak was off Broadway, Get on Your Knees. And I was actually a producer on both of those shows, which is really cool. And so it'll be, you know, among friends. I'm rooting for everybody. I'm rooting for everyone and more myself. You see, I would say I want to win it. I will win it. I do want to win it, but I also feel like with my luck, I don't think I will.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, you will. I think you will.

Kara Swisher: And then Jimmy Kimmel for the Oscars. And then John Early, who was my brother in the Taylor Swift video for Antihero.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, wow.

Kara Swisher: We play brothers. We play these outrageous brothers with wigs and all this whole thing.

Mike Birbiglia: I recall. Do you get people coming up to you?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, sometimes.

Mike Birbiglia: Young girls? And give you a bracelet or something?

Kara Swisher: That happens. I mean, I definitely had it when I went. We were lucky enough to take Una to see Taylor at MetLife in New Jersey in May. And that's the best concert I've ever seen. I mean, I've never seen anything like it.

Mike Birbiglia: I know. I went to the one in Santa Clara.

Kara Swisher: Well, Scott is a real pill about it, right? On the pivot.

Mike Birbiglia: On the pivot, he is. He's a pill about a lot of things. You know, you recognize him. Particularly Taylor, he just, like, doesn't get it, and he's unwilling to get it.

Kara Swisher: He is. He's gotten better. He's gotten better. It's kind of like, you know, Kamala Harris, which we'll talk about. He's coming around. You know, he was a Beto guy, and then he was a—he's always the wrong person. He always picks the wrong political figure, and he often, like, doesn't want to give Taylor her props. It annoys him, I think, that she's so enormously creatively successful, financially successful, socially successful. You know, I don't know. Who knows? And for that matter, astonishingly talented just as a director. She directed the music video. She does a lot of her videos. And she's unbelievable.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah. Yeah, she's very funny. And the whole thing is really the cat. The fact that she's left with the cat. That was my favorite part.

Kara Swisher: But we've got a lot to get today, including the role of comedy. We're going to pull on your expertise on that. Starbucks ordering up a new CEO and a free streaming service is taking on some of the biggest players in the game. But first, the United Auto Workers Union is filing charges against former President Donald Trump and Elon Musk after their conversation on X. During the chat, Trump praised Musk for his anti-union stances, calling him the cutter. I don't know how he came up with that. Let's listen to what inspired the charges.

[Audio clip plays: Donald Trump: Well, you're the greatest cutter. I mean, I look at what you do. You walk in and you just say, you want to quit? They go on strike. I won't mention the name of the company, but they go on strike and you say, that's okay, you're all gone.]

Kara Swisher: Well, Trump and Elon have boasted the conversation reached, quote, a billion users. X has not disclosed any monetary information or ad buys surrounding the arrangement with the Trump campaign. Did you listen to it? Have you heard about this?

Mike Birbiglia: I tried.

Kara Swisher: And?

Mike Birbiglia: I mean, I genuinely tried because I knew I was coming on here. I find Trump to be very hard to listen to.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Mike Birbiglia: He's the person at the party who you would try to get out of the conversation with.

Kara Swisher: Correct.

Mike Birbiglia: I mean, I want to say for the first 15 minutes, he talked about the gunshot. Which he wasn't going to talk about again because it was so upsetting. The Daily Show has an amazing piece where they show him going, I'm not going to talk about this again. And then it's a supercut of, and they grazed me and I turned. And it's endless. He never stops talking about it. He's like the guy explaining his dreams at a party. You're like, how do I get away from this guy?

Kara Swisher: Did you like Elon at this one?

Mike Birbiglia: No, I think Elon. I don't know what happened to Elon. I don't know. Because he used to be anti-Trump, I want to say, in 2016.

Kara Swisher: He was. He said things that were, I feel like, one can't take back about Trump.

Mike Birbiglia: Well, you can. You can become vice president. Call him Hitler.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, exactly.

Mike Birbiglia: But I just feel like he is so, I don't know, he's so plaintiff to Trump. The giggle there just got me. The giggle and the slurring was really disturbing to me on many levels. I don't know why I focused in on those. It's just so strange. And then I just think the union thing is something that I think Silicon Valley has to deal with in general. I deal with it all the time because I tour 50 cities a year. So I'm in Ubers all the time. I talk to Uber drivers endlessly. And Uber drivers have had their percentage of what they're making go down incrementally over the last four years. And they all tell me they cannot get by on what they're making through Uber. And they used to love Uber. And I just think Uber has to deal with that. And I'm not on the inside. I know that there's a lot of factors. It's complicated, but I do think they have to deal with that.

Kara Swisher: The most virally anti-union company is Tesla. That is 100 percent true. You know, it's interesting that I think one of the things that he's mad about stems from Biden not inviting him to an electric vehicle summit that he had at the White House because he's anti-union. He couldn't, right? And so that really started Elon down the path of hating Biden. I swear, he called me about it six times. And I was like, calm down, you know, slow your roll, fella. It was odd and strange because he was, I have to say, called me quite a lot about Trump and how much he hated him, which was interesting. But whatever, we change. I mean, the X event started out about 45 minutes late for people who don't know, due to technical difficulties, which Musk blamed on an attack. The Harris campaign wasted no time in making fun of the situation, putting out a statement saying Trump's entire campaign is in the service of people like Elon Musk and himself, self-obsessed rich guys who will sell out the middle class and who cannot run a live stream in the year 2024. Also, the campaign, which is doing really well, has put out a statement. I don't know who's doing their social media saying it's been zero days since J.D. Vance insulted women across the country. So talk about the Harris campaign is funny. They're funny. What do you think about their humor? Does it land?

Mike Birbiglia: It's riding the right line.

Kara Swisher: Tell me how.

Mike Birbiglia: So I think in comedy, typically a joke has a setup and a punchline. A setup is something that we all agree to be true. And the punchline is a left turn that we don't see coming. And I think the problem with political comedy in everything year 2016 on is that we don't all agree on what is true. So if there are no setups, there can be no punchlines. Or I should say it's very hard to come by a punchline. So I think that the wrong move comedically with the Trump folks is to say things that the liberal media, which they believe is liberal and biased and is not giving them the truth about Donald Trump, is they don't buy it. And so it can't be a setup. So if you bring up the lawsuits a lot, they'll go, well, that's just a hit job. The lawsuits are a hit job, whatever. Witch hunt.

Kara Swisher: Right.

Mike Birbiglia: However, I just think there's a few vulnerabilities in the Trump universe, which is we all know he inherited 400 million dollars. We all saw with our own eyes that there were tech glitches in the Zoom thing or, you know, whatever the Elon thing is. And Twitter, the X thing. As much as Kamala's team can play in the moment with things that we all can see with our own eyes, I think that's going to be a winning strategy. I think the other thing is we cannot make fun of Trump's voters because you have family who are Trump voters. I have family.

Kara Swisher: They have no sense of humor is my impression.

Mike Birbiglia: Well, yeah, I mean, no sense of humor is one thing. But the other thing is they're smart. My dad's a doctor who has a law degree. He's not unintelligent. So if you just insult him over and over again, you're not going to get anywhere. So I think if you look at all the zingers, the famous zingers in history in the debates, it's these really light touches. It's that Bush-Gore moment where Gore walks too close to Bush Jr. And then Bush sort of steps away. And you kind of go like, I know what he means. That's a human moment.

Kara Swisher: Or I don't want to take advantage of my age. Reagan was quite good at it.

Mike Birbiglia: Yes. There you go again, the Reagan line. And I think as much as Kamala can be in the moment, because she's extraordinarily funny. She's extraordinarily, I mean, her laugh is infectious. I mean, it's hilarious that Trump has gone after her laugh because you go, no, no, you moron. People like when people laugh. They do. It's endearing. They've turned it into something lovely, actually, which I think is interesting.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I think they're on the right path. I think the key is, there's a famous line about dealing with hecklers which is the best thing you can do with a heckler is respond honestly in the moment. When you do these humorous things like J.D. Vance, he's been a comedy goldmine.

Mike Birbiglia: Correct.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to make of this guy. I liked his book in 2017 or whatever it was. And then when I watch J.D. Vance now, I don't feel like I'm watching the same person who wrote that book. And so I just think he has a voice problem. I feel like I don't understand where he's coming from. I mean, the weird word has worked beautifully. I'd love to get your sense of why that works.

Mike Birbiglia: It's funny. It's actually weird is funny versus deplorables or any other word, say, Hillary used and stuff, which wasn't funny. There's a big talking point on the right, which is that there's Trump derangement syndrome. What's funny about it is I think it's a good talking point for them, because I think in 2016 or 15, when he came on the scene, it did throw a lot of people off. And we were kind of breathless, myself included, on Twitter about every last thing he said. And I think that the only way to deal with him is with facts and composure. And I think that the Harris campaign is doing a really good job of that so far. I mean, even like when Trump said that sort of whack job thing about her not being black or this or that at the Chicago conference, the Harris campaign wasn't breathless about it.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. She handled that well. I think in the debate, if she ignores a lot of his crazy rather than takes the bait, because it is bait, she'll do much better.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, she seems to have very cool operations, right? Very cool and smooth in a lot of ways. And I think, you know, I've told a lot of people when they didn't like her, I was like, she really has a great personality if she'd only let it out. And here it is, right? And so people are responding to it. When you have dinner with her or anything else, it's a very different person.

Kara Swisher: I'm going to move on to something else. Starbucks stock is up over 20 percent after it announced it's stealing Chipotle's CEO, Brian Nickel. Nickel jumped in to save Chipotle in 2018 after multiple food poisoning outbreaks, doubling revenue by 2023. The move came as Starbucks faced activist investor campaigns in a period of stock slumps. What do you think? Burrito bowls with coffee?

Mike Birbiglia: I don't know. You know, I've performed in 48 states in America and I spent a lot of time in chains like these. This guy's clearly a winner of some kind because these are two of my favorite chains. They both seem to have good quality control. You know, Chipotle had that E. coli problem years ago and I thought it was going to sink them.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I did.

Mike Birbiglia: I think he was part of the reason why they were able to bounce back. He came over from Taco Bell and helped them bounce back from that. I think, look, I mean, I like Starbucks. I think at a certain point, you've got to figure out what your cost ceiling is with those coffees.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

Mike Birbiglia: And what affordable way people can get in. I call them a milkshake company. I don't think they're a milkshake. They're like all milkshakes in there. They're a version of a milkshake or something. I made this joke recently where it's like you go into cafes now. It's like the price of coffee changes in real time. Like I went in, the guy was like, it's $6. I go, what? He goes, $9. I go, why don't you go, $15? I go, why don't you go, we're closed. It's just like endless. They have to figure out a way for people to affordably get in and out. And then the other thing is, Starbucks, of course, does a great job compared to the other chains with bathrooms.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Mike Birbiglia: And I think that if I were Starbucks, I would have a bathroom team where you have these guys in suits, a couple guys in like a bathroom suit, and they scrub, and they have the best bathroom cleaning system. And it becomes universally known the best bathrooms in the chain restaurant business are Starbucks. And I think that that puts more people in.

Kara Swisher: What is the worst bathrooms?

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, gosh. I mean, the worst bathrooms are really the gas station side of the road.

Kara Swisher: Do you drive to each of these places?

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, yeah, yeah, I do.

Kara Swisher: Really?

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: What?

Mike Birbiglia: No, I do. I mean, typically I fly in the night. I try to drive because I can't stand flying.

Kara Swisher: Wow. That's crazy.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, for years I took a tour bus, but it just seems silly at a certain point because it's just me and usually one opening act and maybe a tour manager.

Kara Swisher: A tour bus. How was that?

Mike Birbiglia: It's pretty good. You know, it's like a time machine. You fall asleep in a bunk bed and then you wake up in Omaha. It's a strange experience. I will say this. I know this circles back to the Trump of it all. But I've been confounded by the Trump phenomenon since 2015 when he announced. And I traveled to all these, you know, in the fall. I'm going to Minneapolis, Madison, Milwaukee. I go to all the places they talk about all the time of how are they going to get these people. And I always ask the Trump voters who I meet, what do you like about this guy? And I ask it as an open ended question, not in a nonjudgmental way. And they always say he says how he feels. And I think there's a lesson in that for Democrats, which is I think sometimes there's an attempt to thread the needle of the exact talking points so much that you lose the humanity. I think that happened to Hillary in 2016. I think at a certain point she was trying to thread so many needles that you didn't get a sense of who she was after a while.

Kara Swisher: Do you like Tim Walz then? You haven't been traveling since this new phenomenon has happened, which most political pundits are like, we've never seen anything like this.

Mike Birbiglia: No, no. These numbers movement. I think he seems great. I think he seems authentic. I think, you know, it was hilarious. The Pod Save America guys had him on before he was chosen. And he and Tommy Vitor were talking about high school football. And it was hilarious because it was just like watching two jocks talk about high school football. And you go, oh, it's the same thing I'm talking about with authenticity. You just go, yeah, this guy was a high school football coach. This is not bullshit. This is not bullshit. This is a real thing.

Kara Swisher: Right. Yeah, he's very appealing. And they're trying very hard to slag him, but he doesn't seem to take a slag.

Mike Birbiglia: No. He's always like, I'm a monster. I gave them lunch. What? Rather than a socialist. You know, they were trying to accuse him of being a socialist for giving free lunches to people.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I think he's the opposite of J.D. Vance in that sense. They think J.D. Vance, you just go, I can't get a read on this guy. He's rich, you know. He's very rich, and he has crypto. That's all you need to know.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, that's all you need to know. If you want to know anything.

Kara Swisher: All right, Mike, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the latest push to restrict cell phones in schools. And Mike will answer some listener questions that came in just for him.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Mike, we're back. California Governor Gavin Newsom is urging schools in his state to restrict the use of cell phones in classrooms. Newsom wrote a letter to school districts saying officials should act now, citing the risks of distraction as well as social media pressures. At least eight states have passed laws, issued orders, or adopted rules this year to curb phone use among students during school hours. 72% of high school teachers cite cell phones as a major distraction in the classroom, according to Pew Research. This is kind of obvious. Most parents who support banning phones in class say they should be allowed at other times of the day, according to a poll from the National Parents Union. You have a young daughter. I have lots of kids. What do you think of these cell phone bans? Because a lot of them are using yonder pouches that you see at concerts and comedy shows to lock up phones. We didn't do a yonder at your show, I think.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, I haven't really gotten into it. But I think it's a great, I think it's about time they banned phones in schools. I think it's madness that we haven't been hipper to this sooner. I think it's one of those things where, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong because you know this better than I do, but I think Steve Jobs and Bill Gates both didn't let their kids use phones, right?

Kara Swisher: Right, yeah.

Mike Birbiglia: And to me, that's the instruction manual right there. You go, oh, the people who basically made this technology aren't letting their kids. Yeah. Game over. Don't do it. I wouldn't do it.

Kara Swisher: What is your daughter? What grade is she in?

Mike Birbiglia: She's going into fourth grade. They don't bring phones. She doesn't have a phone, right?

Kara Swisher: No.

Mike Birbiglia: No. And there's a big, you know, in Brooklyn where I live, like it's, there's a big push to do this thing like wait until eight, wait until eighth grade essentially to let kids have phones. And some of the schools also already just don't allow phones or they do yonder pouches or some variation when kids come in. I mean, it's this crazy thing where you just go, why, it's this technology where you take essentially a forklift and you shrink it into a thing you can put in your pocket and we're going, yeah, kids can bring that to school. Like, it doesn't make any sense. It's extraordinary. This summer, this is an experiment I did and I recommend it to other people as well, especially artists. You know, on my podcast, Working It Out, we talk extensively about artistic process and how to augment it. For me...

Kara Swisher: It's a great podcast, by the way.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, thank you. Thank you. For me, I did this thing this summer. I've been trying to write my next movie for the last couple of years, and I haven't been able to carve out the time. I think part of it is because I have this distraction machine in my pocket. So I said, well, what is the smallest iPhone that I can get? And it was like this iPhone SE.

Kara Swisher: SE, right.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, it's really small. And I go, okay, it'll just have, basically my wife and daughter will have the number, my parents will have the number and that's kind of it and I'll have Uber on it so that if I'm in a jam, I can get where I need to go and it has been a huge, huge breakthrough for me. I've gotten so much writing done because I don't have Instagram on it, I don't have all the distraction things on it. It's just like one of these things when you have the thing pared down, you realize that these iPhones are essentially like Swiss army knives. And you're like, well, I don't need the toothpick and the bottle opener and the corkscrew. I just need the knife, I think.

Kara Swisher: So what were you wasting your time on Instagram? Like you're just scrolling.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah. Infinite scrolling. Instagram, TikTok, which I've basically deleted. I just basically do on my laptop now. And then, yeah, I mean, I just think it's like But it's, I mean, look, these machines are brilliant. These iPhones are, they're actually too brilliant. They're too good because the things that you can do on them are so exciting that they're distracting us from the actual beauty that's around us.

Kara Swisher: You couldn't write the movie because you had a, because you were distracted. I can see, I do it all the time. I'm always looking at news because it's interesting or I'll watch the Daily Show because I don't watch it in real time. I watch it in clips or whatever, you know, whatever I happen to be doing. I watch a lot of videos on the Vogue just for entertainment or to calm down or something. Talk about the creative. How did it not let you do that?

Mike Birbiglia: It's just endless scrolling, correct, or endless entertainment. Because the algorithm is just building. It's every second it is building a playlist of videos that appeal to exactly what you watch already. And so for me it's like it ends up being this is embarrassing it ends up being like a lot of self-help stuff a lot of writing process stuff a lot of film directors talking about how they made you know Godfather 2 or whatever and it's like if you get fed that for 20 minutes and it's all pretty interesting you might stay for 60 and if you stay for 60 you might stay for 2 hours and then there goes your writing day.

Kara Swisher: So when you put it... You went to the SE. You finished the movie or you, was it hard to concentrate again?

Kara Swisher: No, I'm like, I'm halfway through the movie though.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah.

Kara Swisher: The concentration level has changed completely. And I've just been extraordinarily more productive. I think, I hope what the iPhone does, and I've heard rumors that they might go to a flip phone, like an iPhone flip phone, which I think would be good. I think we're at this point where we don't need a better camera in the phone. The camera is already unbelievable. The quality is absurd. It's better than digital cameras that were on the market 10 years ago for professionals. So what are we doing at this point? I just think a better phone, honestly a phone that is less distracting, is what I'm in the market for.

Mike Birbiglia: Well, actually, the rumor is it's going to be thinner. The thinness is going to be like a credit card thinness. That's what they're going for, I think, in a lot of ways. But I agree with you. I'm addicted to it. I took Twitter off and that was a huge amount of time, especially angry time. And I still like Threads, though. I find lots of stuff I like to watch. It's mostly videos of comedy or cooking or something like that.

Kara Swisher: I'm curious when you're in your concerts, you didn't do the Yonder Pouches. Why? Because a lot of comics do. Like every comedy show or music show, you put them in there and you either take them with you or you leave them there, which is very upsetting for me. I don't know why I can't separate from a phone. But why don't you do it? And what do you do with audience members who you can see visibly on phones?

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, that actually does drive me crazy. I usually call it out when it happens. But I do an announcement at the top of the show. I'm lucky over the years. I've been on tour for 24 years or something like that. At this point, my audience, they found me either from This American Life or Netflix or Satellite Radio or my own podcast. I like them. A lot of comedians, this is a dirty little secret of comedy, a lot of comedians don't like their audience.

Kara Swisher: Right. Yeah, I can see that. These people are nuts. I'm not sure it's a secret, but go ahead.

Mike Birbiglia: So when I meet fans of mine on the street, I'm generally like, hey, it's a pretty normal conversation. If I say to the audience, "Hey, could you guys shut off your phones?" Usually they do. That's what's so special about theater. We're all in the room at the same time in the same place. We have this 90 minutes together where we're just together. I think that's what's so special about live theater.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I agree with you. It's really interesting. I don't go to movies as much as I used to in theaters, but I have a thing now. If I don't look at the phone, it's a good movie. Like two texts, it's over. If I get into the two-text zone, it's not a good movie for me. And I feel terrible doing it, but I still do it. Just moving on, have you heard of the streaming service Tubi? It's been described as Netflix's geekier, freakier, and totally free rival, and it's exploded in popularity over the last year. I couldn't believe this article yesterday in the Times. It's by Fox, Rupert Murdoch, once again, part of the growing free ad-supported TV, FAST movement. That's what it's called. It's like old TV. There are no subscription fees, and 100% of Tubi's revenue comes from advertising. It has the largest content library of any streamer, with 250,000 older movies and TV episodes, many with a bargain bin vibe. It's consistently outranking Peacock, Max, Apple TV, and total viewing time, drawing even with Disney+. Have you tuned into Tubi?

Mike Birbiglia: No, but it's interesting. When I read that article, I was like, oh, that's seemingly what I recall the playbook was of Netflix.

Kara Swisher: It was, in the early years, right? And HBO too, by the way.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, HBO, yes. The way I even found out about Netflix years ago was that one of my specials, which was called "What I Should Have Said Was Nothing," appeared on Netflix. It was licensed and I didn't even know it. All of a sudden people were saying to me, "Oh, I watched 'What I Should Have Said Was Nothing' on Netflix." I go, "What's Netflix?" And they're like, "Oh, it's the streaming service." And I would look on Netflix and go, "Oh wow, they have so many comedy specials and shows." I think it's a good strategy for Tubi because you look and go, "Oh, they have 'Everybody Hates Chris.'" That's a great show. I get that it's not new, but it's really good.

Kara Swisher: Right. Yeah, it definitely brings people in with old shows and things like that. Do you have a favorite old show in general?

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, gosh. I think "Cheers" was probably my favorite. I grew up on "Cheers" and I grew up on SNL. How about you?

Kara Swisher: I go way back. I can watch "The Brady Bunch" any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I know every episode. But I love finding stuff that I used to watch on these streaming services. That's one of my favorite things, like movies. I'm here in Martha's Vineyard, and I'm going to watch "The Inkwell" tonight, which is a movie full of really big stars. It's about a beach in Martha's Vineyard, Oak Bluffs. I like finding really old stuff that reminds me of my youth when I see it again. I kind of like these ideas. Do you have a preferred streaming service these days? What's important for comedy? Is it still Netflix now? It used to be HBO, right?

Mike Birbiglia: Netflix is massive. Netflix did a really smart thing early on, which is they bought up specials with Chris Rock, Dave Chappelle, Jerry Seinfeld, John Mulaney, Amy Schumer. What happened was the stand-up comedy people who love stand-up comedy just went to Netflix. Then everyone they made deals with, from me on down, they made really good deals for them because we all just wanted to be on the platform. Now they've really cornered the market. The subscribership of Netflix is well above 200 million subscribers. In comedy right now, it's the only game in town. But also YouTube has really changed the game on comedy specials. If you look at Shane Gillis, for example, his YouTube specials filmed at a comedy club in Austin, Texas, with four cameras that are the equivalent quality of a really good iPhone, and it has 30 million views. What do you do then? Where do you go?

Kara Swisher: Reddit's another place that my kids watch. They watch you on Reddit. They're like, "Oh, we saw him on Reddit." I'm like, "Okay." When you used to be, the thing was you got a comedy special on HBO, and that made you. And now it's Netflix.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, now it's a combination of Instagram, YouTube, Netflix, etc. The other streamers, in my opinion, are well behind. I don't think it's really even close. Tubi has a shot, who knows?

Kara Swisher: What do you look for when you're deciding on your comedy show where to put it? You kind of want everyone to see it, but you could just put it on YouTube yourself.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, I could put it on YouTube, and I've definitely considered it. I'm considering it with something from years ago. I'm sure you know the story from my shows, but I sleepwalked through a second story window in Walla Walla, Washington at a La Quinta Inn. I live to tell the story, and that's why it's a good story. I told it on This American Life. So the 20-year anniversary in January from when I jumped through the window, I just took a camera crew and filmed me going back to Walla Walla, talking to the person at the front desk after I jumped through the window, talking to the doctor who put stitches in my legs at the emergency room. It's great, and we're editing it now. What's interesting about it is I'm just self-financing it. I hired a crew, I hired a great editor. The affordability of making things at this moment is unlike anything in history. There's this great documentary, during Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola made this documentary called Hearts of Darkness. It's hard to find, but it's great. In the closing credits, he talks about how in the future, everyone will have access to cameras that are as good as the cameras we're working with now. He says something like, "A 13-year-old in her basement in Ohio could make a movie as good as we're making right here." I think we're getting pretty close to that.

Kara Swisher: So what are you going to do with that? That's a great idea. You do a lot of production. People don't realize this, but you produce Alex Edelman and you produce a lot of shows.

Mike Birbiglia: I just think the costs are way down. YouTube and all the streaming services have democratized entertainment. Whenever people ask me for advice, I always say, "Make something, learn from it, get feedback, make something else, get feedback, make something else." The opportunity is there. There are people who have made these YouTube specials for $20,000, $30,000, $50,000. It's amazing.

Kara Swisher: So what are you going to do with that?

Mike Birbiglia: I actually don't know yet. We're just editing it. It's really interesting footage. I perform some of the show in Walla Walla. I meet all these people. We're going to intercut it. It may end up on Netflix. It may end up on YouTube. We're just taking it as it comes.

Kara Swisher: A lot of times when I'm doing creative stuff, because I was very early to doing stuff myself in journalism, which people pushed up against, everything I do now is, "What do I need you for?" Literally that's the sentence. "What do I need you for?" If I can do it myself or buy it off the shelf, I always think, "Why am I paying you this? What is the reason I'm giving you this amount of money? What service am I getting?" It's really interesting. Comics have really taken off. Even people who are sort of tarnished, like Louis C.K., came back through that methodology. He found his audience that way. Some comic said to me he's been stopped. I'm like, it doesn't sound like he's been stopped. He's doing his own thing. You don't have to comment on it.

Mike Birbiglia: I think comedians have a one-on-one relationship with their audiences. If you continue to tour and you continue to create and put out specials, whether it's on YouTube or Netflix, if you're funny, people will show up. 100%.

Kara Swisher: It was so funny because last night, Amanda and I went out for a date, and a lesbian came over who was getting married on Saturday. Congratulations to them. It's Rachel and Maddie. Thank you for coming over. They're huge fans. Amanda's like, "Oh, no one's come up to us today." And then these lesbians came up, and they were wonderful. Then the table next to me had my book in their book club. They said, "Oh, they talked to you. Now we're going to talk to you." It was all these older ladies, the book club of Martha's Vineyard. They're like, "We love your book." Then we took selfies with everybody. Then I went over to say goodbye to the lesbian couple and say congratulations. Then this table of this woman, Christina, with her whole gang of people were like, "We didn't want to say anything." And Amanda was like, "Once again, big fan." It made me think, fans are your fans. You own them now, versus you don't own them. They're your fans versus anything else.

Mike Birbiglia: I think social media and the rise of podcasts in the last decade has created a really intimate relationship with fans. There's this famous story in show business that when Bob Hope moved from radio to being a movie star, people pointed out he wouldn't have been a movie star if he weren't a radio star. He wasn't an extraordinary looking person. He wasn't a born movie star. But it's the intimacy of radio. The form is you're in people's ears. There's something about it that's very powerful. Since I created "Working It Out" the podcast, I feel like my audience, because I work out jokes on the show and then I go out on tour in Cincinnati and Charlotte, people show up and they're like, "Oh, I like how that joke evolved into this other joke." So they're following the process. 100%. My books wouldn't have been as big without the podcast. That's who is the audience at the shows. It's interesting. Comics who take advantage of this, it's the perfect genre to do that more than anything.

Kara Swisher: We have one more thing I want you to comment on. Mark Zuckerberg shared an interesting photo on Instagram. I just sent it to you this week. A seven-foot-tall statue of his wife, Priscilla Chan. In his Instagram caption, Zuckerberg noted he was bringing back the Roman tradition of making sculptures of your wife. Because, you know, whatever, Mark. She chimed in the comments saying, "The more of me, the better?" Obviously, Jeff Bezos put his fiancée on the prow of his giant mega yacht, boobs and all, the whole thing. Would your wife approve of this kind of gift?

Mike Birbiglia: No. I mean, it's funny. I texted Amanda this week because your wife and my wife, they're both poets. But the difference is Jenny is an introvert, and Amanda is not an introvert. I have a joke in "The Old Man in the Pool" where I say, "Jenny's an introvert and I'm an extrovert. An extrovert is someone who gets energy from being around other people. And an introvert doesn't like you. Or she might like you, but she's going to need me to explain why we're leaving the party." I think if I made a seven-foot statue of my wife, the relationship would be over.

Kara Swisher: Really? It would be the end of the relationship?

Mike Birbiglia: She does not want a statue of herself. No.

Kara Swisher: Neither does Amanda. She'd be horrified. Horrified.

Mike Birbiglia: Horrified.

Kara Swisher: What do you make of these billionaires doing this? In this moment of exponentialization of money and of people's presence and fame, I think people have an outsized version of themselves sometimes. You see that with Kanye, you see it with Zuckerberg, you see it with Elon. They lose a sense of what is a reasonable thing to do. What would be a positive expression of love?

Mike Birbiglia: It's very performative. Part of me is like, "Oh, so what? She likes it." Part of me is the old Kara, which is like, "Oh, she likes it. It's okay." And part of me is like, "It's not for her, is it? It's for you." When Mark puts on the gold chains or the hair or the hydrofoiling, I'm kind of like, "Oh, good for you." And then I'm like, "What's happening here?"

Kara Swisher: Right. Yeah. What's the most extreme public display of affection you've had with Amanda?

Mike Birbiglia: Just a picture of us on our first date, maybe. She's not a grand jester kind of gal.

Kara Swisher: Right. Yeah. I have rented Delmonico's for you and there's a band.

Mike Birbiglia: Jenny and I got married at City Hall, and we're 16 years in. Amanda and I had a pandemic wedding in Brooklyn in Prospect Park. It was good. Worked out fine. The kids came. It's great. I love that.

Kara Swisher: Okay, Mike, let's pivot to some listener questions. We asked our listeners for questions just for you. Let's go through a couple. The first is about something that's been in the news lately. Steve from Threads says, "Everyone knows Mike loves couches. Maybe can give us some insight on where you draw the line with that love." For some context, you profess your love of couches in a 2019 special, "The New One," which is about your daughter. Let's listen.

[Audio clip plays: "Couches are humble. They're like, this is about you. You want to take a nap? Be my guest. You want to have sex with my arm? I'll think about it."]

Kara Swisher: You were early on this. I think people do have an intimate relationship with their couch. I think this is the most relatable thing about J.D. Vance. I think he should lean into this and say, "Yes, I do have sex with my couch." I think we will go, "OK, I get this guy."

Mike Birbiglia: It's funny that that special is called "The New One." It's all about how I never wanted to have a child and all the reasons why no one should ever want to have a child and why I was right. And then ultimately why I was wrong. The reason the couch joke arrived was that one night I was doing a show at Princeton and it was all mostly students. It didn't have the couch joke in it. It was all about having kids. I've never looked at an audience that has been more disinterested in the topic I'm discussing. They had this look of, "We don't know what you're talking about. We don't want to have kids. We don't know what it would mean to have kids." I called my director, Seth Barish, who's worked on all of my shows over the years. I said, "I have to come up with some way in for younger audiences." I'm always trying to have my audience appeal to age 12 to 112. I came up with this metaphor. I love my couch. The couch is the symbol of stability. Just going home to your couch, there's something about it that hugs you. It's a bed that hugs you. It ended up being this real Hallmark thing and it allowed young audiences to come along for the ride on the show.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it was great. I remember that. But how did you get to "sex with my arm"? Sex with a couch is a stretch.

Mike Birbiglia: I've never had sex with my couch, but I... I can't believe it was in there. I had forgotten. But he had a different version of sex with a couch, not the arm. There was another part of it that was his sexual activity. But it didn't happen.

Kara Swisher: It didn't happen?

Mike Birbiglia: No, it didn't happen.

Kara Swisher: But he should lean into it. You think he should lean into it?

Mike Birbiglia: I think so. Here's what I think. It's interesting because it's not true. J.D. Vance did not put anything about having sex on the couch in his book. Let me be clear. But the big "but" is people think he could have. That's the thing. Maybe he didn't, but I feel like he could have.

Kara Swisher: Very good for you to be so prescient. Here's another one from Threads. "Mike, as a storyteller, what advice do you have for young people in terms of telling good stories? Specifically, what are your favorite stories to read? And what's the key to inspiring people through story?" People don't realize comics are storytellers. They really are. Talk a little bit about storytelling.

Mike Birbiglia: On the podcast this week, we had Stephen Merchant, who co-created the original "The Office" and "Extras" in England. He talks about how he's been telling more stories on stage. We talked about the craft of that. He was asking how do you take something that is inherently a little bit sad or a little bit dramatic and find the comedy in it? The key to telling comedic stories is finding one joke in it that opens up the audience and tells them that you are okay laughing about this thing. Because you're okay with it, they should be okay with it. Years ago, when I was 20, I had bladder cancer. I wanted to talk about it on stage, but I didn't know how. It bums out the audience. So I came up with this joke. I said, "I had a bladder tumor when I was 20, but it's funny because I'm a hypochondriac. I think the funniest thing that can happen to a hypochondriac is you get cancer because it affirms every fear you've ever had in your life. You're like, 'See, I told you. Remember last week when I thought I had rickets? I was probably right about that too. There's going to be a lot of changes around here.'" What happened with the audience is they started to go, "Oh, okay, he's telling a funny story. We should just go with him on it."

Kara Swisher: Right. Yeah.

Mike Birbiglia: With Steven, he had a wild story. He was at Sarah Silverman's party years ago and he accidentally took an edible and he accidentally walked through a window. He was like, "I'm going to go outside" and didn't realize it was a window and walked through it. We were talking through the mechanics of that. How do you make that a story? The key thing is he's okay now. You have to assure the audience that you're okay now.

Kara Swisher: Glass and blood. The side. Go ahead.

Mike Birbiglia: Exactly. What I always tell people about stories is as long as you have a beginning and most importantly, an ending, the audience will stick with you for the middle.

Kara Swisher: Was there one where you told a story where you didn't have them? Because there's a lot of tough stories in this new show.

Mike Birbiglia: I have a lot of stuff about my dad and about our political differences. There's this story I tell and it's dramatic. It doesn't have a punchline to it. I say, "In my 20s, I realized that we were kind of drifting apart politically. One time we had an argument that was so bad that when I said goodbye, he didn't even say goodbye. He just said, 'You've really gone another way.'" It was devastating. I actually choked up now even talking about it because it was so painful for me. I'm driving home and realizing my whole life I sort of wanted to be my dad. And at a certain point, I decided I wanted him to be me.

Kara Swisher: Right. That was a great moment. That was a big insight in that show. It was a gut punch. You do a lot of that, though. You do a lot of shifting from comedy to something that's very upsetting.

Mike Birbiglia: I think it's related to the political climate we're in right now. The extremes of both parties want the other party to be them. That's never going to happen. People have really widely different takes in this country. It's getting to a point where we just go, "Yeah, this person could be the leader of the country and that would be okay." We don't need the wild extreme on one side. We don't need the wild extreme on the other. We just need someone to kind of right the ship.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, well, I don't think Trump is that person. More and more, especially this week, he's really lost his mind. It's like he can't be. I used to believe in Trump derangement syndrome, but now I'm like, no, he's really dangerous.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, no, he definitely is at this point. Let him talk. It's definitely a "let them talk" situation because it does not make a ton of sense. His stuff about Kamala Harris lately is so strange. He's also attracted to her. He doesn't know what to do. He said that she looks like Melania a little bit. He's like, "Oh no, I'm attracted to her." It's very strange. She should get some bodyguards.

Kara Swisher: But let me ask you, what are your favorite stories to read in that answer?

Mike Birbiglia: The stuff that makes me laugh hardest is always David Sedaris. Classic. He's just always so funny. His diaries are hilarious. He published his diaries. Zadie Smith's stuff is always fantastic. I don't know if you ever read this years ago. She wrote this fantastic piece. I know you've written so much brilliant stuff about Silicon Valley over the years. She also wrote this piece about Zuckerberg that was so dead on. It was in one of her essay books years ago. It was about how essentially we live on our phones. We live on our computers and our phones. The aesthetic of it is essentially Facebook. From a person who has no sense of style, the style that we are living in virtually is from Mark Zuckerberg, a guy who wanted a date in college and so he created this thing and now we live in it. It's such a brilliant essay. It really made me think hard on the missteps that culturally we've made.

Kara Swisher: I do think at the heart, storytelling remains the most important thing to everybody in some fashion. To that point, to yours and Scott's points about storytelling, I think one of the things Kamala should really lean into is that she's a self-made person from a self-made family and that he inherited $400 million. That's not relatable. Inheriting $400 million is not what anybody has.

Mike Birbiglia: Although one might argue he's sort of a poor person's version of a rich person. That's aspirational. I want to be him.

Kara Swisher: It is. Yeah, it's aspirational. But I do think the more she tells personal stories about herself and her own life, the more people will gravitate towards her. Walz has done a good job of that. She was talking about how she worked for McDonald's when she was a teenager. And he goes, "You think Trump could ever make a McFlurry?" It was a perfect way to tell it. Everyone was like, it was so specific, McFlurry. He wouldn't even know how to operate the machine. It was a story he was telling about her and insulting him at the same time. It worked really well. I think they're very good at stories, the two of them. I think particularly him. He's a particularly good storyteller. That's what we like from our politicians in a lot of ways.

Kara Swisher: Okay, lastly, an ex-user asks, "On a scale of one to 10, with 10 being the worst, how bad are Scott's jokes?"

Kara Swisher: Okay. Here's what I'll say about Scott's jokes. Scott's jokes are not jokes. They are fodder for you and Scott to bounce around your lovable chemistry.

Mike Birbiglia: I see.

Kara Swisher: And so I enjoy them because he's like everyone's uncle. He's our podcast uncle. He tells these goofy jokes. He knows they're goofy. You make fun of them. You say you're going to get trashed by your friends and your fans. And you do. And it's fun.

Mike Birbiglia: Rachel, last night, the lesbian was like, "The jokes aren't funny." I was like, "Thank you." But I think that's what's fun about it. And I think that one of the things that's so wonderful about this podcast is that you and Scott just go at these topics in a way that doesn't feel censored. And it doesn't feel restrained. And I love listening to it. And that's why it's an honor to be here.

Kara Swisher: We do. He does repeat jokes. If he tells that Poland invading Germany thing again, I'm going to kill him.

Mike Birbiglia: Germany invading Poland.

Kara Swisher: He's got to stop. He's got to get new ones. That's all I got to say. Maybe you can help him. You can workshop a few with him.

Mike Birbiglia: All right.

Kara Swisher: If you've got a question of your own, thank you, listeners, for putting those in for Mike. We've got tons of them, by the way. We'll send them to you. Any you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot. Send a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Mike, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. You have to give us a prediction.

[Ad break]

Kara Swisher: Okay, Mike, let's hear your prediction.

Mike Birbiglia: Here's my prediction about the election. I think that, I don't know which way the election goes, but I think that Kamala may end up taking two or three states that we don't even think are in play. I think that she has an appeal that, but I don't even know if she'll win, but I do think she has an appeal that crosses the electoral map in a way that maybe pundits aren't even realizing.

Kara Swisher: Interesting. Why do you think that?

Mike Birbiglia: Because I think that all I've heard for the last year is people saying we need someone else. All I hear, people who voted for Trump, people who voted for Biden, we need somebody else. These people are too old. It's just they're too old. And I think she's someone else. And I think that what's going to happen is you might see, I don't know. I think you might see an Ohio or an Iowa or a Florida. Florida is getting closer. Florida is close. It's within five points. And you might see one of those go in a very surprising way. But who knows? I have a lot of Trump relatives who are voting for her.

Kara Swisher: That's good.

Mike Birbiglia: I know. It's interesting. The first time, they're like, "Oh, she's kind of appealing." Because I think they're getting a clear view of her versus I think what's happened is Trump has not defined her quickly enough and it's too late. It's too late now. He is going to have a very hard time. And there's a very short window.

Kara Swisher: I think one of the things, I'll tell you a prediction I have, I'll do it very quickly, is shorter elections, great idea. So much better. Every other country has them. Ours go on for years. It's madness. It's like when they put out Thanksgiving things the day after Thanksgiving. Shorter elections is a really good thing for the body politic and for our mental health, I think.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, I think absolutely. And by the way, I should point out, if people are mad, this is because I'm only talking about politics today because I'm such a big fan of this show. And I think these are important issues. But I don't do political comedy.

Kara Swisher: You don't.

Mike Birbiglia: No. I do personal stuff. Because ultimately I feel like when I tour, I want humor to bring people together. I want everyone to laugh to get away from the stuff we're talking about today. And that's why I do personal shows.

Kara Swisher: Well, your new show is political because it's about you and your dad.

Mike Birbiglia: But to me, it's about when you were a kid, not about politics, right?

Kara Swisher: Right. It's the, there was a scene, I think, with your dad and touching you, right? When you get hurt.

Mike Birbiglia: Yeah, yeah. But giving me a medical evaluation because he's a doctor. And how it was a little, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it.

Kara Swisher: Yes, you know, he was being your dad.

Mike Birbiglia: I was like being a parent. Because we don't hug a lot.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, right, exactly. So the politics that you layer on has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with connection, right?

Mike Birbiglia: To me. I think so. And I think, I honestly think that the thing that I've discovered from touring the country, 48 states over the years, is that we're much, as a country, we're much more alike than different.

Kara Swisher: That's correct. I say that all the time. Anyway, Mike, thank you so much. Scott and I will be back next week with a brand new episode recorded live from the Democratic National Convention. Just a quick note, because a lot of you have emailed us, our DNC show will not be open to the public, but it'll be in your podcast feeds on Tuesday. But we will be wandering around Chicago, and I'm going to make Scott do all manner of unnatural things with couches. Maybe we'll go to the Wiener Circle, something like that, the typical Chicago things that we'll be doing. But Mike, thank you so much. And again, let me just be clear. Your show was wonderful. I just want to say everyone should watch Mike's shows. Obviously, his show, Old Man in the Pool, has been nominated for an Emmy. And his new show, Please Stop the Ride, but it's also called The Good Life, depending on what it's going to be called. Can anyone see you anywhere else with that?

Mike Birbiglia: I mean, I'm touring 20 cities in the fall, so I'll be in New Jersey. I'll be in Wisconsin, Madison, Milwaukee. I'm all over the place. Oh, I'm in Charleston, Asheville. I mean, all over the place. All of it's on Birbigs.com.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's a wonderful show. Thank you. It changes, correct?

Mike Birbiglia: It changes all the time. And so all of it's on Birbigs.com, which is also where my podcast Working It Out is.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Working It Out is a wonderful podcast. It's really good about creativity. Anyway, you're a wonderful person. We love you. You've done a wonderful job, by the way. And I may replace Scott with you at some point. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet. Anyway, if I kill him in Chicago, I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Laren Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Anderdot engineered this episode. Nishat Kirwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business from the DNC. How exciting for us. Mike, thank you again.

Mike Birbiglia: Oh, my God. Thank you.

Kara Swisher: Mike is also currently doing an auction of a special one-of-a-kind item benefiting the YMCA. You can check it out at charitybuzz.com slash Mike Birbiglia. Podcast squires.