X’s Check Mark Trouble, Lyft’s Typo, and Bezos’ Tax Break

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher: Scott, are you still vacationing?

Scott Galloway: I'm still in the Maldives. Yeah.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. But I'm here with you. How do you like it?

Scott Galloway: I mean, it's spectacular. It's vacationing for me. It has the same cadence wherever we are. It starts out like a very mutually supportive yoga retreat where we want to understand our children's feelings and understand why they don't want to do certain things. And we're very supportive of each other. About three days in, it's like a super max correctional facility where if they don't eat their fucking lunch, they're going to get tased. So we're at that point right now where I'm literally putting you in the hole if you keep acting this way. I've had it.

Kara Swisher: You know, I don't like vacation.

Scott Galloway: Oh, really?

Kara Swisher: No, I don't. I'm very good at vacationing. I just don't like them. I finally admitted this to myself.

Scott Galloway: Good for you.

Kara Swisher: No, you love to work.

Scott Galloway: Until the age of 40, I never took more than seven days off in a row. And I am making up for lost time.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting trend. And I have to admit to myself, I get bored.

Scott Galloway: Really?

Kara Swisher: I don't really want to sit by a pool. I don't like swimming. I don't like dancing and partying.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but you don't have to just work.

Kara Swisher: I like to write. I've been doing a podcast pretty much every day here. I don't know. I just am not a vacationer. The only place I love more than anything is Hawaii. And I could live there. I think it's beautiful. There's something about the environment. Some places you go to and you're like, this is where I belong. That's the only place I've ever felt that way. And it doesn't feel like a vacation. So I don't know. I'm not a vacationer. I don't even have a vacation plan. I should probably have one, shouldn't I?

Scott Galloway: Your birthday party, that's a vacation.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Yeah, we're excited about that.

Scott Galloway: I'm making up for lost time. I was like you. I was so focused. I couldn't relax on vacations when I was younger. It didn't work for me.

Kara Swisher: Well, I'm older than you though. But now I'm, yeah, no problem using it. No problem.

Scott Galloway: In any case, well, I'm glad you're having a good time.

Kara Swisher: We've got a lot to get to today, including new questions raised about Tesla's self-driving mode. And Jeff Bezos is reaping the tax benefits on his move to Florida. You can explain this to me, Scott, when we talk about it. But first, we're going to start on a somber note. One person was killed and at least 21 were wounded, including 11 children in a shooting at the Super Bowl victory rally for the Kansas City Chiefs on Wednesday. Three people are in custody. Officials say they did not believe the motive was terrorism. Wednesday was also the sixth anniversary of the Parkland school shooting, which some parents marked with a new gun safety campaign featuring AI-generated voices of their late children. This was chilling, but I think necessary. The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern had a story about the campaign, which uses the AI voices to send calls to lawmakers and push for greater gun control. As one parent told Joanna, gun violence is the United States problem that has not been solved. So, quote, "If we need to use creepy stuff to fix it, welcome to the creepy." These are the parents agreeing to this. The shooting, it's just an astonishing moment where the elected officials are captive of this broken NRA. If you're reading a lot of the stuff that's going on there as an organization, it's like there's all kinds of spending problems. I just can't understand how broken it is and how very clearly people are saying this. The parents, people, everybody. I don't know what to do about it, that we're held captive by these gun interests.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, there's definitely a feeling of you do feel bereft. We have a situation where we have minority rule. If we don't de-gerrymander and get money out of politics, really effective lobbyist groups and money are going to have a disproportionate amount of influence. But there are just certain issues, whether it's family planning, whether it's immigration. We effectively have an immigration bill that looks like it was written by Republicans that Democrats are willing to support, but it's become so politicized, it doesn't look like it's going to pass. And the majority of Americans believe in some sort of gun registration and what you talked about, some sensible gun control. And we become, we just don't, we have minority rule. And just to, as I always do, bring it back to me, the Parkland shooting was deeply rattling for me. It was in Florida. I was serving on the board of my kid's school. Within about a week, people were so hysterical. There was a well-meaning woman who started showing up to school every day to serve as an impromptu security guard. They wanted to arm the teachers. They wanted to put a security gate around the school. And then there was a large contingent of parents, including myself, saying, schools shouldn't be prisons. And arming teachers is just dumb. And literally six years ago to date. And I want to be clear. I live in London. The reason we moved to London is not because America is bad. It's because America has been so wonderful to us that we have the opportunity to do this. And I'm going to absolutely move back to America. But a free gift with purchase, Kara, is that I don't have these fantasies of dropping my kids off at school in Florida and then coming home and seeing on CNN a picture of my kids' school. So the number one and number two reasons for death among kids under the age of 18 is now, it used to be auto accidents, it's now suicide and gun deaths. And it goes right to the core of why do you have an economy? You have an economy and laws to have a vibrant middle class in my viewpoint. Why do you want a middle class? So you can produce prosperity, innovation, and a tax base such that we can all have better lives and lead prosperous, loving lives. And if you are worried about your kids in terms of self-harm or someone else harming them, then the whole shooting match is lost. So this is, I just can't figure out why would we be focused on obsessed with interest rates, talking about even immigration, talking about Ukraine if we can't figure out a way that parents aren't tangibly and legitimately worried about their child being torn up by hot metal or hanging themselves.

Kara Swisher: Tell me about this AI. Did you read the AI story I sent you? I sent it to you. This was Joanna's piece about these parents who were, these calls are coming from kids who are dead. And they took voice, obviously they had voices in some recorded and created these kids saying I died. I was like, okay, AI, I like AI used in this way to really fuck with people, to mind fuck them in terms of what these kids speaking from the grave, essentially. And I think using creepy to fix it, welcome to the creepy. It is definitely creepy. I, as you know, I've been one of the proponents to show what the damage is to kids from these weapons of mass destruction, these war weapons. Although there are some issues of it becoming interesting to people, right, that they want to kind of look at it in a macabre way. The more we freak people out, the better, as far as I'm concerned. And this was, I think, an effective use of that. I don't know if you think that.

Scott Galloway: Well, it's sort of a Black Mirror version of Emmett Till, right? So Emmett Till was lynched in Mississippi for allegedly whistling at a white woman, and his death became a catalyst for the civil rights movement. And it wasn't the murder itself. It was that his mother decided to have an open casket so people could see what they did to her boy. And it just caused national outrage. This is an attempt to do that. I do, however, I'm just sort of uncomfortable with, I feel like the dead, even if their parents issue the IP, there's something very uncomfortable about reincarnating people after they're dead. I don't know why it doesn't sit well with me.

Kara Swisher: That's why I like it.

Scott Galloway: That's right.

Kara Swisher: I think that's the point. It doesn't sit well with you. And I do think it's creepy. Is what it is. And that's the parents said that. And I think upset is what we have to get people, like really upset. We need to change people's tune. Like we have to shock and horrify them such that they cannot look away. You have to like take their heads, hold it in place and say, look, look at this, look at what is happening here, including legislators. I would have a picture of a dead child in front of these legislators every day with the parents' permission. I would have a picture of a dead child right in their face every single day of their lives. Just, you know, I thought, I don't know if it'll make a difference, but when those parents were holding up those pictures of the kids at the Mark Zuckerberg hearing where Mark was testifying, I saw his face. Maybe he won't do anything about it, but I saw something in his eyes that were like, oh, you know, let them see it over and over and over again. This is where we part company, though. You have more faith. You don't think they care.

Scott Galloway: I think Senator Rubio will suck anyone's cock to be president. And I'm not being—

Kara Swisher: He does that, yes.

Scott Galloway: And I would agree with you on Senator Graham, too. And by the way, if that sounded like a homophobic floor, I apologize. I was saying that this guy will commit—will do anything.

Kara Swisher: It's fine.

Scott Galloway: In his nonstop run for presidency, he has lost all—these folks—

Kara Swisher: Same thing with Graham. Graham is even worse, because at least Rubio has a history of being a suck-up. The notion they're going to find some sort of morality. I mean, we keep waiting for that. Unless you have ranked choice voting or final five, they get some moderates in there. Because term limits, from what I understand, are unconstitutional. You're just never, these people will only do what they think will get them reelected. That's it.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, it's true.

Kara Swisher: That's it. And the way you get reelected is by catering to the extremes of your party and by raising money. And so unless you come up, unless we de-gerrymander these hard red and hard blue districts, unless we have final five of ranked choice voting, where we got some moderates in there that are willing to just work with each other and say, okay, let's be reasonable on this. Do we really need to have AR-15s that you can buy? Does that really make any sense to have weapons of war? Until that happens, the notion that somehow we're going to just shit, we're just going to send them photos of dead kids and it's going to change their minds? I just don't, I don't, I don't think it's going to work. I don't know. There's got to be, I just, the numbers are so profound. It just feels like one of those issues you can really politically get some real bank on.

Scott Galloway: You're right. Look, Lindsey Graham's shifting on Ukraine so quickly after he was such a staunch advocate. I mean, he's such a bottom. He's such a bottom. It's really, it's...

Kara Swisher: Well, and it happens. I mean, I got to be honest. I don't want to, It happens on both sides of the aisle, right? They're all so angry at each other. They talk themselves.

Scott Galloway: Not like this. Not like this.

Kara Swisher: I would agree with you. It happens more on the right, but it happens on both sides. But they're so focused on embarrassing each other. They've got so caught up that if we only win, if we beat the other side, then we can do the good work. They never get to the good work.

Scott Galloway: I'm going to push back. I think the Democrats have been much more moderate, you know, much more. We're willing to do this border deal we don't love. We're willing to do this and that. I think the Democrats are acquitting themselves with some level of, we need to govern. I think the Republicans have totally and utterly lost the narrative as a group of people.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: The only caveat I would put there, because I feel like it's my job to occasionally play the steel man here, is the Democrats, in my view, have not been moderates on Israel. And I think it's taken a lot of-

Kara Swisher: They're moving that way. I hope so. Look at John Fetterman. Biden said something. Hakeem Jeffries, the new guy that got elected from Long Island as a Democrat is pro-Israel. But anyways, I do. I get it. I just think there's at least you're hearing debate that is debate, like actual debate versus just like Lindsey Graham shifting on Ukraine. Literally, compromise or endlessly he wants a job in the Trump administration. Either way, you're a repulsive little man and a sad little man.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, speaking of Saad, X is potentially violating U.S. sanctions by letting terrorist organizations buy check marks, according to a new report.

Scott Galloway: Well, they need the money.

Kara Swisher: The report from Tech Transparency Project shows X has taken payments from accounts that include Hezbollah leaders and Iranian and Russian state media. The company said in a statement that it has reviewed the report and will take action if necessary. It's started to remove some of these checks, apparently. And, of course, for once, Elon is keeping his mouth shut because that's what they're doing. The statement also said, we're always committed to ensuring that we maintain a safe, secure, and compliant platform. They're not committed to anything. They're not committed to anything, honestly.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but the whole check thing has been a disaster for them. It's hard to tell. As far as I can tell, the check—

Kara Swisher: Yeah, they can't run the company. They can't run the company.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, the check is just someone who has very limited following based on their own merits wants to be put up. And that's fine. Okay, sell me followers or relevance. That's fine. I don't, you know, that's almost like paid advertising. What strikes me is, and I haven't been on Twitter in now nine months or something, but I go on threads. It's striking to me how quickly they have both turned into Fox and CNN, respectively. I find Twitter has gone so red pill. And also, to be fair, I think threads is very left. It's very blue.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I would agree. And I can put up a picture of Biden and it'll get a thousand likes on threads with almost no commentary. And it very left. And then I read some of the shit I read on Twitter when someone forwards me something. It definitely gone red pill. And Twitter used to be fairly like I would almost say center left. Would you describe it that way?

Scott Galloway: I would say I would agree with you. I would agree. I don't know if Twitter was sort of you see the trolls and the left both of them sort of battling it out. And now it's really a right wing. It's a right wing mess. It's useless on many occasions. It's just useless as a platform in terms of having interesting conversations. In threads, I get better feedback that's more, for most people, that's more civil.

Kara Swisher: But the other day, I kind of took your point of view, which was I had threaded a Jack Schaefer piece that said the New York Times was doing just fine on the Biden coverage of old. And he made an argument. I didn't agree with him. I kind of agreed more with Margaret Sullivan. I thought they went over the top. It's more civil. I'll say that about it. It's more civil. All he said was read. The reaction I got was so demented. It was really, it was crazy. And so then I was like, fuck you. I'm going to go in here and say, you should read these things. And instead of reading it, they want it. How dare I post it? And to everybody who's following me on threads, please don't. If you don't like what I post, it's none of your fucking business. Like, I just said read. I didn't say read, I like this. I didn't say read, I disagree. I just said, look at this. This is an interesting point of view.

Scott Galloway: You know what this reminds me of? Have you seen the TikTok? There's this great woman. She did the best TikTok. And she has pictures of Tracy Chapman speaking. And she's like, look at Tracy Chapman. This is the skin of a woman who doesn't get in the comments. This is the skin of a woman who has nothing to prove. This is the complexion of a woman that doesn't take shit. I mean, she just talked about how radiant her was and how beautiful her skin was. And she's like, this is the skin of a woman who gives zero fucks. And she approached it through like a beauty tutorial. This is how you get amazing skin.

Kara Swisher: I love that.

Scott Galloway: Yes, I would agree. And then let me finish this. So I was like, you cannot comment if you don't read it. And it's none of your business what I don't then then don't follow me. I block everybody and hide.

Kara Swisher: Why are you even going there? Why do you even engage? I really don't like inaccuracy. I know it sounds that we each have our little things. You have your psychedelics. I have my I hate inaccuracy.

Scott Galloway: Oh, wait, hold on. I'm a drug abuser and you have you're a perfectionist.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. OK. Okay. Wow. Okay. Whatever. Everyone has their hobbies. This is my hobby.

Scott Galloway: That's like in an interview. What's your biggest fault? I just can't wait to get things done. You know what I mean. You like to make penis jokes. Fine.

Kara Swisher: No, I just hate these tiny inaccuracies. I'm weird. It's a weird anal retentive thing. Let me finish. So then I said, you know, I had spent time saying Trump was more incoherent on this show. I said, oh, the Chris Wallace show. But I was like, well, Biden is three years older. And everyone lost their minds that I just said he was three years older. and then started into the lecturing over the difference. And I was like, I literally said that on every platform. The next morning, I woke up and I said, oh, was that a waste of my time? Do I feel bad? And I was talking to Amanda about it. I was like, no, I feel good about that. I feel good.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but if I were to give advice to 23-year-old Kara just out thinking about grad school and journalism, it would, one, be absolutely get in people's face.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: You know, back in their face. Clap back. When you think you're right, stand up for what you believe in. But at the same time, recognize that if everyone agrees with you all the time, you're not saying anything.

Kara Swisher: I know that.

Scott Galloway: And if occasionally people just go crazy and it creates a food fight and they're angry at you, that's just fine. You don't need to weigh in. You don't need to clap back. Just let them punch it out.

Kara Swisher: I agree. I agree. But here's the thing. A lot of people then were like, oh, I see. And I felt like I got a couple of people. I wanted to make it a better platform. That's why. I don't want-

Scott Galloway: Good luck with that.

Kara Swisher: I don't want the Krasnstein gang or the right-wing gang to take over. I want real discussion. So I'm going to do a little of that. I just did. I felt good about it. I feel good. I don't care.

Scott Galloway: If it makes you feel good, have at it.

Kara Swisher: All right. Moving on. X isn't the only Elon company having issues. Tesla's full self-driving technology may be linked to its first death. A Tesla employee was using the feature when his Model 3 veered into a tree and burst in flames, killing him. That's according to a passenger account. Crashes have been linked to Tesla's autopilot technology, the full self-driving technology, which is still in beta, has previously remained in the clear. The driver was found to be intoxicated at the time of the crash, but evidence showed no usage of brakes, and that power was still being applied to the wheels after the crash. The Tesla employee's wife said she feels that she and her husband were just guinea pigs. They got the wife to speak, which was, I think, a very devastating thing the post did. Elon Musk denied the claims posting on X. He was not on FSD. The software had unfortunately never been downloaded. You know, I'm of two minds here. Like this guy wanted to do it, right? When you're reading it and probably understood the risks. But this full self-driving technology is not ready for prime time. That's what people have to realize. And to claim otherwise, I think is really, it's just not ready for prime time. I'm not sure there'll be any repercussions. People get in accidents every day due to their own fault.

Scott Galloway: You just said something I didn't know. He was intoxicated?

Kara Swisher: Yes.

Scott Galloway: Well, then, okay. As much as I hate to defend Elon Musk and Tesla, this isn't about Tesla. It's not about self-driving. It's about drunk driving. And full stop. This guy, and I think it's terrible for him and his family. When you get behind the wheel intoxicated, you're taking your and other people's lives into your own hands. This has nothing to do with Tesla or automated driving. Full stop. This is a drunk driving death. And it's tragic for him and his family. And I hope other people decide that you just don't drink and drive. Full stop. That's it. End of story.

Kara Swisher: But using this self-driving, for anyone who's used it, which I have, you really need to be paying attention. You need to be paying attention. And to rely on any of these things fully is a mistake for you and your family, right? It just is. And you should be aware when you're driving, driving the car, right? And of course, drinking is a problem. I can't not drive when I'm in the passenger seat. I'm like, slow down. Much less when I have my hands on the wheel. The idea of a computer. I think eventually, I can't believe, again, we're agreeing with Elon. Eventually, this, and not just Elon, a lot of people. Eventually, this will all be self-driving and it will work pretty well. And occasionally, we'll have some deaths and there'll be a mistake as there is constantly with people driving. and I feel terrible for his wife, but he should have been, he's dead. So he should have not done this. He should have not been drinking. He should have not been just relying on it. The people who do these self-driving have to, for some reason, they're selling it so hard. They have to say it's perfect and it's just not. It's just not, but it is promising. It is interesting. It is inevitable. But in this case, you need to be careful no matter what you're using.

Scott Galloway: I'm a big supporter of the idea of full self-driving. So we'll see where it goes. People get mad at me. There was, you know, in San Francisco, they lit a Waymo on fire. They're so mad at it. I can't wait for, I'm fascinated by aviation. I think the more logical place, but psychologically, people can't get there, will be automated flying.

Kara Swisher: Well, it kind of is now.

Scott Galloway: Well, that's right. It is. It already is. And the few times there's an air disaster, it's almost always pilot error. The engineering, these things are so over-engineered. The software is so outstanding. There's so many of the systems are redundant. And I have a lot of respect for pilots. I know them. But it's gotten to the point, in my opinion, that should be the place we should. I mean, the first place to go is long haul trucking. They can go from two in the morning till six in the morning. Which is working. When no one's out there, they're going to have to take some of that money and reinvest it and retraining because I think the number one job in terms of employment in America is actually truck driver for people without a college education. But there's just, to have someone sitting on a lot-

Kara Swisher: There's not enough truck drivers. Do you know that? There's actually 100,000 fewer than we need, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway: Is that right? That to me is where it should go. But yeah, I think we should have a lot of automation. I'm here for it.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I think I still, I got to tell you, I'd still like someone who could fly a plane up there. Just one, maybe, like just in case.

Scott Galloway: But that's why it'll take longer than it should, because people want someone, unfortunately, usually with a deep voice and good hair, who says, you know, buckle up, nothing to worry about. Just some chop. Folks, we're fine. You know, just, and you're like, okay, we're fine. Someone who was in Vietnam and eats beef three times a day is telling me everything's fine. I'm trying to think, what do you go in that you let nothing? an elevator. You're okay with an elevator, aren't you? And it used to be operators.

Kara Swisher: Oh, automated trains at airports. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Automated trains. You're right.

Scott Galloway: Well, there's a guy in the front.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, we'll see. We'll see where it goes. We're so sorry for this family, but it's a little more complicated. We're going to take an Elon side on this one. I don't know. I don't think he's telling the truth about what's in it, but they need to stop pretending it's perfect.

Kara Swisher: All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about how Jeff Bezos moved to Florida, saving him millions. and we'll take a listener mail question on how to teach kids basic financial literacy, your favorite area.

[AD BREAK]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back. When Jeff Bezos announced his move to Florida last year, he said he wanted to be close to his parents in Blue Origin operations. You and I thought that taxes might also be a factor, and it looks like we were right. Bezos has sold about $4 billion worth of Amazon shares in the last week or so, according to SEC filings. Living in Florida allows Bezos to avoid Washington State's relatively new 7% capital gains tax on sales of stocks and bonds worth more than $250,000. Bezos also reportedly intends to sell 50 million shares over the next year. And thanks to his Florida residency, he'll save at least $610 million, according to CNBC. All right, then. There you have it. Of course, we're going to see more billionaires moving to Florida or Texas. I'll note another billionaire making the move, Elon Musk, just switched SpaceX's incorporation from Delaware to Texas just a few weeks after a Delaware judge voided his Tesla pay package. That's, you know, moving, you know, OK, there you have it.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, like states, I mean, I don't like to. I wish it was more transparent. He claimed it's because he wanted to be close to his grandfather. His parents. His parents. Like, I think states should compete. I like the fact that Texas and Florida are putting pressure on high-tech states in the Northeast to get their shit together and manage their state more fiscally responsibly. I think it's good when states compete. However, however, we should have the same treatment of long-term capital gains on stock that you own as we do on options. And it's the following. If you move to Texas from California. Or Washington. And you exercise your options and you have a gain. You pay taxes based on the state when those options vested. And if you are going to make, in Jeff Bezos' case, $60 or $80 billion by leveraging, amongst other things, in addition to your genius, your good fortune, your business acumen, you're going to leverage the University of Washington. You're going to leverage an unbelievable public school system. You're going to leverage the roads. You're going to leverage an environment of technology started by Boeing. You're going to leverage the Seattle Tacoma, I mean, airport. Then you owe them. You owe them. And if you have built $60 billion in wealth leveraging the infrastructure of Washington state, you need to pay taxes to Washington state on that $60 billion. Now, if and when he decides to move to Texas or Florida, if that $60 billion goes to $100, then fine, he pays no state tax on that incremental $40. Similar to what we do with options. We know how to do this. It's a little like a divorce, right?

Scott Galloway: When people are trying to move to another state to get a better divorce. Like, you got to pay your divorce bill. Except you get 100%.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but if you try to move places in order to save money like this, the tale is old its time. Like moving to, where did they move? To Monaco. Monaco is where the Europe is.

Scott Galloway: It's similar to my parents' divorce in the early 70s, where my dad is the billionaire and my mom was the state. My mom got dick and my dad got everything. My mom too. It's venue shopping. And, you know, again, it's tale as old as time. It's not a new, fresh thing. But I would agree with you. I think that's a smart way to do it. And they're not going to want to do that.

Kara Swisher: And then they should start their businesses in Florida. They should start their business, which they're trying to do, but it's sort of been a big, it hasn't worked out as well with all those people.

Scott Galloway: Oh, God, give me a break. All these people coming down to, VCs coming down to Florida, pretending they're going to inspire the tech community when they not honest. Rather than just saying I have an enormous unrealized capital gain and I like hanging out in Miami which is an amazing city until Florida makes a requisite investment, I mean, it's all the same thing. Every major company or tech company worth over $100 billion, much less $10 billion, has one thing in common. It's a bike ride from a world-class engineering university. And unfortunately, Florida doesn't have a lot of those, if any. The University of Florida is a great university, but I wouldn't describe it as a great technical university. I don't care if you're Spotify near that great university in Stockholm or if you're BlackBerry near whatever that university is in Ottawa.

Kara Swisher: Waterloo.

Scott Galloway: You have to make an investment and educate because this is what happens. No, they don't want to do that. They're cheap bastards. I think St. Louis is going to do really well. Why? WashU has an amazing engineering department. This is what's going to happen. A couple of kids in a dorm are going to start something amazing. They're going to sell it for billions of dollars, and then they're going to fall in love in St. Louis, and they're going to stay there, and they're going to take— Although, it only happens a little bit. Chicago, remember when Groupon and a whole bunch of people sort of were going to make Chicago that? It just didn't catch on. It hasn't caught on in Miami. I know they'll call and yell at me. It does happen. It happened in Boston. It's happening in North Carolina. To an extent. It's happening at Wharton, Philadelphia. To an extent. That's how it starts. It has not replicated what has happened in two places, which in this country, I would say. Three places. Los Angeles for entertainment.

Kara Swisher: Yes.

Scott Galloway: But in terms of half, it's Washington State. It has happened. It's the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles. And New York and Boston to an extent, lesser extent. I mean, this is your friend Aileen Lay. I'm parroting her. It used to be 95% market share of those two things. Now it's down to kind of 50 or 60. It has been diffused. Anyways, my point is, but you need money for that. And unless there's, I mean, this is my kind of rant about Florida. The kids from the brightest kids in Florida all have one thing in common. They leave. And until we can hold on to young people and not be a place for tax pats and seniors, the state's never going to live up to its potential. And it starts with world-class universities, full stop.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. I would say Austin certainly has made, But there was a big- Look what's happened. Michael Dell, you're making my case.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kara Swisher: But there was a big boom there. I covered all this. That's why I wrote a lot about these Silicon Desert or Silicon Cowboy or whatever. There's a boom and then it falls off. Like Dell, definitely Austin is definitely another center, but it still hasn't gotten even close to Washington State.

Scott Galloway: It's amazing. What's happened in Austin is amazing, Carol. I would agree.

Kara Swisher: I would agree, but it's still not-

Scott Galloway: And it started with Michael Dell in his dorm room.

Kara Swisher: Yes, I agree. And I think Elon is actually making something significant with SpaceX there. And that's great. Good for him. Anyway, moving on. Lyft shares went on quite a ride this week after the company mistakenly projected its margin would expand 500 basis points in 2024. Stocks subsequently spiked 67% in after hours trading. Lyft, the CFO, clarified on an earnings call that there was only a typo in the press release. The margin was actually expected to expand by 50 basis points. One analyst called it a black eye moment for Lyft and a debacle of epic proportions. In spite of the snafu, Lyft did have some actual good news to report. Revenue was $1.22 billion, up 4% from a year ago. And gross bookings jumped 17% in Q4.

Scott Galloway: Wow. Oops. Oops. Yeah, this gave me PTSD. First off, good for Lyft. And they had a good quarter. So I started coming to go red envelope. and I brought in this master of the universe, Mike Moritz, who eventually took my role as chairman. And I said, basically my partner did an audit of the technology of the company and said, all the technology we have is shitty technology. The only thing it all has in common is it's the shitty technology of Sequoia Portfolio Companies. And he sent that memo to the board. I copied it and said, Mike, you're not doing your job as a fiduciary to all shareholders. You're using Red Envelope as a dumping ground for the failed products of your portfolio companies. And two days later, I was kicked off the board. And so being a very angry man with a lot of time on his hand and a little bit of money, which is very dangerous, I ran a full-scale proxy fight to replace the board and the CEO, who was a total incompetent, and that's being kind. But because I challenged the master of the universe, he decided she was a great CEO and wasn't going to go anywhere. About six months later, she went on an earnings call and said, oh, when we said we had gross margins of 48 points, we were wrong. We overestimated our gross margins by 1,000 basis points. And our actual gross margins are 38 points. And the stock went from 12 to 7 in a single trading day. And at that moment, I knew I was going to win the proxy fight at the next annual meeting because every investor went, this management team is totally incompetent to overestimate gross margins by a thousand basis points. So when I saw that, but this quite frankly, wasn't as bad. This was a typo. This wasn't management coming together and trying to figure out like just getting numbers wrong. This was a typo, but it sent the stock on a wild ride. And my guess is there's going to be, I'll be curious to see if there's shareholder lawsuits, but it's more sort of, it makes for good spectacle here than anything else. But the stock went crazy thinking that they had vastly outperforming. It was a beat, but they thought it was an amazing beat. Anyways, it was an opportunity for me to relive my tour of Vietnam called Red Envelope.

Kara Swisher: Lastly, a match group home of Tinder and other dating apps is being sued for creating addictive products. The lawsuit claims the business model is predatory and rewards compulsive use, accusing a company of negligence and violation of consumer protection laws. The accusation of similarities to litigation and other social platforms have faced about knowingly designing addictive features in a statement, Match called Loss at Ridiculous and said it had zero merit. The suit also seeks damages for people who paid to use the apps and new warnings about risk of addiction. I don't know what to say. I feel like I'm kind of on Match's side. It's ridiculous. You're kidding. Dating apps are addictive? Like, I don't know. I don't know. Am I missing something here?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, tell us something we don't know. I mean, it feels like it'd be not just cocaine, but crack cocaine. Not only do they implement the same sort of gamification and visual stimulation and random rewards that Tristan Harris talked about that create that slot machine effect, where it should constant dobe it by just pulling the arm again. But when you're thinking about the opportunity for a romantic relationship and you get evaluation or you get feedback, some positive but mostly negative, especially if you're a man on these apps, I can't imagine these apps wouldn't be addictive. How could they not be addictive?

Kara Swisher: I don't know. Is there a lawsuit here, though? Is there some? I don't. Right? Because we kind of are like, yeah, these social platforms. Yeah, tell us something we don't know. Alcohol is addictive. Okay. What do we do about it? Yeah, but so this is why, this is the only reason I'm asking, and I'm going to play devil's advocate here, is we think social media platforms should be held accountable for what it does to teen girls or addiction and stuff like that. And we think that's okay. Is this any different or not? I mean, these things get pretty mendacious pretty fast. Fake profiles, where they give people the sense that there's more opportunity and build their hopes when there isn't. You know, that's pretty, that's sort of, that's just immoral. But they're not doing anything that any other app that's selling sneakers or washing machines is doing, trying to create you to just stick on the app. I don't.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but how's it different than social media? Because I know you and I. I don't think it is. It isn't. It isn't.

Kara Swisher: But we think social media should be subject to lawsuits around addiction or not. Because it definitely has self-esteem issues, which is linked to addiction of using them, right? Well, it's not. Okay. Anyway, addiction itself, I think, is so complicated to prove in a court. I think what we've advocated for is that around health, as it relates to kids, maybe even elections, that similar to the rest of media, they should not have Section 230 protections such that if they find that, in fact, Facebook is sending out emails to girls, teen girls, with images helping them kill themselves, that they have some liability for that. We're not going to even go to trying to prove what is addictive or what isn't addictive because ice cream is addictive. We're going to go to liability. Now, if they are lying to people and saying, okay, there's a ton of really hot, interesting people here who are really interested in you and they're fake profiles and they're not such that you spend more money, that's fraud, right? But we have big laws around addiction. We tried to outlaw alcohol. It didn't work. I think that's tough to figure out. What about something? I suppose on cigarettes, there's warnings, right? Maybe they could have warnings on them in this regard. Warning pursuing love is addictive or bad for your health. It is. Addicted to love, play that song. Might as well face that you're addicted to love. I've never been on a dating app, although my nickname at the office was Swipe Left.

Scott Galloway: What is Swipe Left? Tell me.

Kara Swisher: I don't know. Swipe Left is I'm not interested.

Scott Galloway: Oh, okay. Got it. Okay. I like that. I'm going to call you that, Swipe Left. Thanks for that.

Kara Swisher: No problem. I personally, would I advise single people? I think it's easy to be a purist when you're in a relationship. If I were single, I would be accepting every invitation to a dinner party. I'd be letting my friends know that I was single. I'd be politely and in a dignified way when I met people professionally, following up and seeing if they might be interested in coffee and trying to sense if they were, in fact, interested in me in more than professional relationship, which I think is okay. One in three relationships begin at work. And I'd be on the apps because the most rewarding thing in your life is going to be finding a romantic and sexual partnership where maybe someday you decide to partner together economically and have children. And you know what? It's really fucking hard and requires effort and rejection and I say do it all. I see all the negatives. There's a great Vanity Fair reporter who wrote a great story about sort of the way men treat women on these apps and I didn't like it. It was really kind of repulsive.

Scott Galloway: I think it's the opposite, Cara. I know, and let me just finish. So there's lots of issues with these apps, including bad profiles, et cetera, et cetera, and sort of the way people treat each other is kind of interchangeable and fungible, which I don't like, but that happens in life. at bars too. So it's not like a new, fresh thing. On the whole, I've had her, as many as horror stories are, I think there's been a lot of really wonderful stories of people meeting on these things. Many of my friends met on apps and are married. It's been great for the gay community. Many, many, many.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, absolutely. And not always. It sometimes can be very lonesome. I talked to a lot of gay men about it. It's more transactional. It is what it is in that regard, but I think they make some, a friend of mine keeps taking it off his app because it makes him feel bad. Louie took, had a dating app. He took it off, made him feel bad. You know, I just, I've never used them, so I don't have, I can't speak from experience, but I do think on the whole, they're kind of okay. Just like, I think they're better than bars in some cases. Bars can be really depressing, I think.

Scott Galloway: What dating apps do is they speedball a market. And that is because everybody thinks they have access technically to everybody, in some instances, women increase their standards. And you can't tell a woman to not increase her standards, right? The problem is that the top 10% of men get 80 plus percent of the interest, letting them engage in what I'll call Porsche polygamy, which doesn't incentivize them to establish long-term relationships and quite frankly, lets them get away with probably what is not great behavior. At the same time, if you want as a man who is, if you're 5'8 and you're not making hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe you're not great looking and maybe you didn't graduate from MIT, you don't have a chance to be funny. You don't have a chance to demonstrate your kind. You don't have a chance to demonstrate that you have wonderful body language or a confident. It's all about online, essentially with women, it's their aesthetics and with guides, it's their ability to signal resources. But the difference is men have lower standards and will swipe right a lot more. And if you want to talk to validation that men in what I'll call the lower half of attractiveness on basic economic viability, you want to find a means of validating they have no worth to the opposite sex, they should just go on dating apps. It's really brutal for what I'll call an average man.

Kara Swisher: Yep. No, 100%. Again, I've never been on them. I'm too famous. Actually, though, you know what? I won't say their names. There's some very famous people on apps.

Scott Galloway: Oh, that fancy app, right? That fancy app. Raya, yeah.

Kara Swisher: Raya, yeah. Raya, the league. Actually, it's not true that I've never been on the app. Years ago, I'll tell this story very quickly, and I actually didn't put it in my book. Barry Diller called me and said, this is a really cool app. They had just invested in it. And so I loaded it up and looked at it. And I had written a lot about dating apps, you know, all the other ones that existed. And they were different. I knew how they worked. And I hadn't, this was Tinder. It was Tinder. And so I looked at it and I, you had to load yourself up to be, to look at it. And I was like, all right, I'll create a profile to see how it works, which I do with a lot of apps. and I didn't realize you're up live the minute you do it. And all of a sudden I started to get like, essentially older lesbians and young goth girls like went at me. And I was like, what? I'm live? Like what? You can't, you couldn't skulk. You couldn't like wander around anonymously on it. And I was married at the time and I took it right down. I was like, oh my God, I was like live on it. But it was super interesting for the four seconds I was on it.

Scott Galloway: It's funny because I did something similar. I went on seeking arrangements. And since then, I've been having sex with Russian and Brazilian girls in exchange for $400 and a bottle of Roche-Posay. And I've been doing it for seven years, but strictly for research. Strictly for research.

Kara Swisher: Okay, strictly, strictly. I wonder, is that what it costs? I don't even know what it costs. I just pulled out of the air. It's got to be more than that. I don't know. I don know what you talking about I just trying to move on as fast as I can to get us out of this

[Both laugh]

Kara Swisher: Okay Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. This question comes in via email from Jesse. I'll read it. Scott and Kara, I've been listening to your show for about a year now. I recently changed careers from operating a small company that I founded with a friend to teaching a high school in Flatbush, Brooklyn. I was thrown headfirst into teaching economics. My question is, given this golden opportunity to educate the youth on the subject of econ, what do you recommend I cover? One of the other teachers at the high school called High School Economics Adulting 101. I want to arm kids with financial literacy. What are some of the lessons you wish you had learned earlier? Any resources you could share for making what seems to be one of the most boring topics? Interesting. Thanks, Jesse. I'm going to start. Jesse, it's not boring at all. Money is not boring at all. at all. Like, I think this is a great course. And I think kids should, I think this should be absolutely required in high school. And I don't, don't call it economics, call it money, 101 or adulting is fine. I think this is great. There's all kinds of books kids could read. I think they should do hands-on stuff. That's always the best way to do it is doing hands-on use, you know, making investments, et cetera, et cetera. I think this is a critical course for kids and it is very interesting to them. I don't think they're not interested in it. I don't know. What do you think?

Scott Galloway: I think it's wonderful. And when we talked about this, I heard from, and I was trying to find the emails who were talking from this, I don't know if it was a guy or a woman, but saying that they are very involved in high school financial literacy and now 50% of high schools are offering some sort of course. But I noticed this with my own boys. My own boys can do derivatives and, you know, no calculus, but don't understand the mortgage on a credit card, or I'm sorry, don't understand the interest on a credit card, or don't understand why I'm shopping for a better mortgage rate. I'm like, okay, they should be learning that first. So I think it's great. I think there's a lot, unfortunately, because I think things have become so politicized and so sensitive, and every lawyer at a school district is like, just don't do it. It's too much risk. I think we should absolutely have more education about the difference between the male and the female brain. I think we should have classes in mating dynamics. I, quite frankly, and this is going to get me a ton of shit, I think we should be teaching young men and young women about menopause. Someone should occlude me in as to what my mother was going through.

Kara Swisher: Well, there is a sex education course. I don't think you should call it mating 101. I feel like that's not going to work in Florida.

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but mating dynamics, just how do... There is sex education. Kids still take that course. my kids do that. I think it's called sex ed.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. I don't. Anyways, I think there's a lot of opportunity to help because when I've had to try when I've what's interesting is, you know, people say, well, that's the parents responsibility. Whenever I have to try to have these conversations with my kids, they literally run for the hills. They're just not interested in getting a lecture from me about interest rates or either. I had a good conversation with my boys about.

Scott Galloway: I know. I know. That's because you're a much better parent than me. But anyways, and you also have much better attention to detail.

Kara Swisher: No, I just was like condoms, boys. Anyways, but financial literacy in high school, I think it should be mandatory. And I think kids would be interested. I think kids want to understand the stock market. I think they want to understand stocks and bonds, understand why it's important to understand the interest on your student loans. Savings. What's good debt, what's bad debt. I do think parents, though, should take it. I spent a lot of time recently with Alex because he's sort of on his own for the first time financially over all kinds of things. Not just that, not just getting on a plane, but there's a mess in your airport. I was like, figure it out. And then he did. And I'll give you three tips, but figure it out. And we do that with money. I've been doing that with money for them for a while. Pay your bill. And they're like, what do I do? I'm like, I'll tell you once and then you have to figure it out from there. I recently was discussing mortgages with Louis because, you know, he just at some point soon, he'll be thinking of saving up for a house or something like that. But I think it's important. My mom used to ask me to help her work with her to balance her checkbook. Remember those checkbooks like you'd go through and you'd write a check and you'd write it out and you'd do the math? I learned on my own. My mom wasn't very good at that part. But the sex stuff, same thing. It's all these things. Adulting 101 is actually a great name for a course. And it could include dating. It could include not sex, but dating. You know what I mean? That, relationships. It could include finance, getting an apartment, renting, all kinds of stuff. Hygiene. I know it sounds dumb, but hygiene would be interesting. Do you want me to talk to your kids about anything? Do you need help?

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Yeah. No, I need you in India right now. Get on a plane right now for the southwest coast of India. because I have had it with them. Let me just say, I just was like, two things, boys. You be nice to ladies. If you aren't, I'm going to break your arms and condoms. Thank you. That was my entire discussion.

Kara Swisher: All right. It's your responsibility. There you go. It's your responsibility as a man. That's what I said. Anyway, and they were okay. They didn't flee. That's good advice. I was very straightforward with them about it. Anyway, that's what we say. Thank you, Jesse. I'm glad you're teaching that. It's really great. And every high school should have it.

Scott Galloway: All right. So if you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT and be as smart as Jesse. That's a great question.

Kara Swisher: All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

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Kara Swisher: Okay Scott, let's have a prediction from you. I feel like I've had one in a while. Go for it.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. And mine are pretty, this one's pretty boring, and I think I'll agree with it. I think that two people are going to have an outsized impact on the election. And I'm talking our book because we're both progressives here. But we talked about last week, I think Taylor Swift could be a seminal force in the election with a turnout to vote. I think we're going to hear her. Did you see that poll?

Kara Swisher: I didn't.

Scott Galloway: One in five Americans believes she's. Oh, it's a conspiracy. It's a conspiracy that she's working with the CIA or whoever. It's crazy. One in five. And about half of America has heard of the conspiracy theory. I don't know. Less than half of America has a passport. There's a lot of weird stuff going on in America. But Taylor Swift, we talked about. But the other one, I was so blown away by Jon Stewart's inaugural show. You liked it. Some people criticized us. I loved it, too. But go ahead. I mean. Go ahead. Tell me why.

Kara Swisher: I agree. He hit everyone in the fucking face. I mean, he just said, I mean, the moment when he said, it was just so hilarious when he showed all the clips, all of Biden's cabinet. And he was like, I was with the president today and he was sharp and he was focused and he was on point. And then Jon Stewart just goes, do you have any of that on film? Because we never seem to capture those moments on film. And then he goes after Trump. He took a wallop at Trump. He's literally, and I'm guilty of this. He has something that I'm struggling to hold on to, and that is pure, un-fucking-filtered truth, going after both sides. It is ridiculous that these, you know, Perfect is not on the menu here, and he is absolutely hitting both sides hard, and I think he has so much credibility among the people. And there's nothing like humor to soften the bench before the Marines come in. The moderates will decide this election, the swing voters and swing voters immediately put up their screen and go, yeah, whatever, partisan. Right. This guy is so is so hard hitting on both sides that I just think a tremendous number of really important voters.

Scott Galloway: Well, that's the criticism he got. Let's just let's just address that they did. they were like, he pokes too, you know, there's not, the argument is there's not a comparison between an old guy and an old guy who's a fascist. And we get it. I've said that last week, right? But it wasn't, but the story wasn't about fascism. The story was about these guys being too old.

Kara Swisher: I know, but he, they were saying he should have, he should have noted that one of them is a fascist and, and more. That's, I'm just telling you, I'm just. I get it. But the reason why he's so effective. That's what he got criticized for. I'm just telling you.

Scott Galloway: I'm sure the right would have said, yeah, but they should have pointed out that Biden just seems really fucking old. I mean, both sides have their yeah, but that they would have liked Jon Stewart to do. He was talking about the fact. He doesn't care. He's not there. He's not there to please you. The average age of Americans is 38. I had Admiral Stavridis on my show. This guy who commanded, you know, he's been in charge of carrier strike forces. This incredibly impressive man came across as spry and youthful. I think he's probably late 50s, early 60s. It is insane, literally insane. And he just needed to point it out on both sides that this is where we ended up. Anyways, I'll bring it back. Taylor Swift, we talked about. I think we're going to hear the name John. I think John Stewart is going to play an enormous role in the election and in the discourse over the next nine months.

Kara Swisher: I would agree. I also threaded that. I said, this was true. He's still got it. He's still fucking got it. And again, I got whacked by all the lefties and progressives or whatever. And I was like, you know what? He's not here. He's not going to go changing to try to please us. He is doing his job and, you know, whatever. You don't have to like it. You don't have to watch it. And by the way, again, they didn't watch it. They didn't watch it. And I'm like, you cannot comment at me unless you saw it. Sorry. I just refuse to listen to a word you say, and I'm going to block you if you do that. One of the things I think he said at the end, which really resonated with me, is sort of blame game that goes on with everyone feeling like I've gotten, I'm terrified, I'm this. He said, it's up to fucking you. Every day, you got to get in there and fight the fight. You have to stop blaming everybody else. It's about it. I was trying to make this point. They were attacking the media. Fine, attack the media. But you know who it is? It's voters. Go persuade voters. You have tools to persuade voters. The media is not going to save you. The media is not going to save you. He said this at the end, and it was so articulate. It's like, stop fucking bellyaching and get in the fight. Get in the fight and do what you want, but stop complaining. And I love that. I thought that was a particularly good thing.

Scott Galloway: Outstanding. A good thing for, outstanding. That was, oh my gosh, I watched it on YouTube last night. That was some of the fastest 20 minutes I'd seen. And by the way, ratings are up. You can talk about he's old and nobody's, and the decline in these shows. That's 100% true. But ratings were fantastic for that. It was fantastic for the Super Bowl. It was, people will watch if good shit is happening. That's just the way it is. And it rose rather significant. He's sort of like the Rachel Maddow slot, right? MSNBC has her and people really like what she does. He'll play a much bigger role than Rachel Maddow because moderates put up a screen when they see Rachel. Is it standing as she is?

Scott Galloway: I agree. I agree. But I'm just saying. I'm not going to comment on her politics. She shows up with real work. She's an outstanding professional. But he will have – it's frightening and it's true. This election is going to be decided by 50 to 100,000 kind of ex-urban soccer moms in three or four states.

Kara Swisher: Persuadables.

Scott Galloway: One, I think a lot of younger people are going to turn out that ordinarily wouldn't turn out if Taylor Swift tells them to. And I think as we go younger, they're more Democratic. And two, Jon Stewart just, I think, increasingly will highlight the truth. And the truth is on our side, Kara.

He does. We have some really unfortunate features about our guy. I think it's insane that we have this guy running, quite frankly. But he's too old, but he's not a fascist, and he's not a criminal. And he's a decent man. And he's a good man. And he's been effective. And by the way, your point about youngest administration, you're right. It's a young administration. And he surrounded himself with youth and vigor.

Jon Stewart will call balls and strikes, and the balls and strikes are on our side over the next nine months. And I think a lot of moderates are just going to listen to this guy. You watch. Trump's going to go after him and start attacking him because he's going to realize he's starting to hurt him when he just highlights the truth every week. And the reason why this guy has so much credibility is he's unafraid to go after how fucking insane it is that Biden is running.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, yeah.

Scott Galloway: And he gets credibility among the moderates. Anyway, Taylor Swift and Jon Stewart.

Kara Swisher: I got to say, Jon Stewart's very popular among the young people, too. Much more so than you realize, I would say. It's not just us. It's not old people us.

Scott Galloway: Not just old people who are on Seeking Arrangements. Generous bald man with home in Soho who vacations in the Maldives, looking for a fun girl for no frills fun.

Kara Swisher: Okay, okay. Anyway, Jon, good job. You are not irrelevant anymore.

Okay, Scott, that's the show. Don't forget to check out our feed on Tuesday, which is a special crossover episode with Esther Perel's Where Should We Begin? Scott and I went for couples counseling with Esther, and you can hear all about our special relationship. And we didn't even meet on an app.

Scott Galloway: It was just me, Cute.

Kara Swisher: That's how we met, Cute, in Germany.

Scott Galloway: That's where we met, off Deutschland, we met, Cute.

Kara Swisher: Anyway, please listen to it. It's actually good, Scott. You were very vulnerable.

Scott Galloway: You are very vulnerable.

Kara Swisher: It was a beautiful, beautiful time. Anyway, please read us out.

[Music fades in]

Scott Galloway: And business care. Have a great weekend.