The Year in Pivot: AI, Unions, Taylor Swift, and Insults Galore

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Kara Swisher: Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher.

Scott Galloway: And I'm Scott Galloway.

Kara Swisher: 2023 has been a busy year, to say the least, with technological innovations, labor uprisings, corporate shakeups, and the usual smattering of tech bros doing stupid things, which is always eternal. We've talked about all of it here on Pivot, the good, the bad, and the idiotic. So let's take a look back at some of our coverage, starting with the technology that really changed the game. We saw the rapid growth of AI over the last 12 months with new ideas, new products, and new fears.

Sam Altman: [Audio clip] My name is Sam Altman. I'm the chief executive officer of OpenAI. OpenAI was founded on the belief that artificial intelligence has the potential to improve nearly every aspect of our lives, but also that it creates serious risks we have to work together to manage.

Kara Swisher: At first, we were entertained and excited by the novelty of it all, learning the language of AI and what it could do. You're an LLM. You're a loving lady machine. Explain to people what LLMs are, please. Large language models, is that what it's called? Basically, generative AI, right?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, it's what feeds it. Yes, indeed. Yeah, and you give it a data set. And if you type in some tweets in the voice of Kara Swisher insulting Elon Musk, it'll come back with 10 or 12 reasonably good tweets. What do we think of this? Or is it just another like silliness that will go away?

Kara Swisher: Well, it is powerful.

Scott Galloway: I spent a bunch of time with my youngest, my 12-year-old, asking chat GPT or whatever it's called questions and seeing what it came back with. And first we started with visuals, you know, "give me a Great Dane drinking Zacapa in the format or the design of the old masters" or whatever.

Kara Swisher: You did this with your child. Okay, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: He's really into this stuff.

Kara Swisher: Zacapa? Okay. He's got to have role models. Anyways, and then.

Scott Galloway: I'm going to do a London intervention on your children.

Kara Swisher: Did I tell you he was hanging out in the lobby and yelling at people holding a Bud Zero?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, you told me that.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I'm filing this all the way for the report I'm going to need to do to London officials when I take your children.

Scott Galloway: But we went on, but we said, okay, write a poem, write a story, summarize the third, you know, summarize Harry Potter in two pages or less. And I mean, it really is very, very powerful. I want to address the most important issue of all, which is dad jokes. GPT-3.5 had, this is "tell me a novel joke about singer Madonna." The answer was, "Why did Madonna go to the bank to get a material loan?" That's not very funny. "Tell me a novel joke about singer Madonna for GPT-4." "Why did Madonna study geometry? Because she wanted to learn how to strike a pose in every angle."

Kara Swisher: Scott, they are still funnier than you.

Scott Galloway: But see, you're still not clearly a pro at AI yet. What you have to do is say, "tell me a dad joke in the voice of Richard Pryor, in the voice of," and it'll give you, you can ask them to tell you a dad joke in the voice of Scott Galloway. I have enough content out there now that it'll make slightly off-color, like inappropriate dad jokes if you ask it to do it in my voice. But you can do it in the voice of George Carlin, in the voice of a lawyer, in the voice of a Vice President Harris.

Kara Swisher: This is not a good development. We need a law to stop this.

Scott Galloway: It is intoxicating how exciting this is. But whether it's globalization or outsourcing or the web, you have to have regulators thinking really hard around, okay, how could this go really bad and put in place early some guardrails.

Kara Swisher: As the year progressed, we started speaking more about concerns and the need for, wait for it, regulation. All right, so what do you think the worries are? Microsoft just laid off an entire team of AI ethicists. Is it that kind of stuff? The inappropriate conversations are there. The opportunity to cheat and to trick is much higher. How do you balance that against, you know, I think one of the things that we didn't do at the beginning of the internet was think about the bad things. And I know you think the media is negative, negative, but it was such a cheerleader for the internet at the beginning and a cheerleader for social media until far too late. So how do you incorporate these worries, and their legitimate worries, into being excited about the companies?

Scott Galloway: Well, one, I mean, just some basics. I'm really hoping that AI is more subscription-based than attention-based because I find that attention-based models just lead to terrible places. It could have gone that way many years ago. I was talking to someone about that. The other thing is I hope that there are regulatory bodies formed that have real teeth and early hit somebody really hard that produces propaganda about mRNA vaccines that ends up creating misinformation. And I don't know how it impacts 230. I don't think they're protected.

Kara Swisher: Which is awesome.

Scott Galloway: Which is awesome. Because if you think about it, all of these technologies have been a net good for the world. But the problem is with the word "net." If we'd had better regulation and held them accountable, we just wouldn't have as much self-harm.

Kara Swisher: I think you're 100% right on the advertising part. If we at the beginning had been able to have subscription or a payment system, micropayment system, totally different ballgame.

Scott Galloway: Scott being Scott, he mapped out a frightening prediction. What I would like before this legislation, if they're really honest about the need for regulation, I'd like them all to raise their hands and come to a gentle person's agreement that they're going to find a way to watermark AI. And they're not going to use AI-generated imagery pre the presidential election leading up to the election. There's some legislation. But the legislation likely won't happen. And I think we're about to see the mother of all AI-generated misinformation Lollapalooza in Q1 or Q2 of next year as Putin realizes the fastest blue line path to victory in Ukraine is to get Trump reelected. And they'll start generating enormously damaging images and deep fakes and videos and content that's been AI-tested that depositions Biden and Harris. I think that it's going to come. And then all the big tech firms will cash their check and come November the 5th, they'll decide that they should have taken more action and wring their hands and say, "We're sorry, we need to do better in 2028."

Kara Swisher: Agreed. I'd just like to see one piece of legislation. Remove it from 230 protections. If it's AI-generated and you elevate it, if you algorithmically elevate AI-generated content, it no longer has the shield of 230. Let's start there. You don't think there should be a tech department that regulates tech just like the FCC?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, but that's not going to happen in the next six months. That might happen. And I do think there might be at some point a head of AI in NATO and an AI person. But by the time they inform the president, by the time they go on their listening tour, you're talking about legislation maybe in two years. We need Q1 and Q2 when the GRU, when Putin realizes it's easier to spend $7 billion than $70 billion to try and swing the American election. And they have a lot of scientists. They're very smart. They're very strategic. You're going to see just, you want to see what AI does? We're going to know what it did after the election when all of a sudden it comes out. And by the way, it worked just fine with the shitty technology. Right? Propaganda works. Anyway, we'll see.

Kara Swisher: And by the fall, we had a front row seat to the next step in AI regulation. But we're going to the White House because President Biden is launching a new approach on AI on Monday, and we're going to be there to hear about it. The executive order will create standards and rules around AI, taking on algorithmic housing discrimination, cybersecurity, data privacy. It will require developers to follow new safety guidelines and create government standards to discern AI-generated content. So it's going to be interesting. My issue, as always, is why hasn't Congress acted here? Why is this an executive order? But we'll listen to see what they have. Some of the stuff is leaked out of what's in it. You have been deemed an AI influencer by the White House, Scott. Are you going to behave?

Scott Galloway: I'm being very serious. I'm very excited and a little bit nervous about it. So I'm excited to be here with you. I feel as if I have sort of an insider. I've never really felt, I haven't spent that much time in D.C. I definitely feel like a fish out of water here. But I'm just super excited. It took me 58 years to get to the White House. So here I am, or here we are, I should say.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, so from the AI rules, do you know anything about them or are you just going to show up and look pretty and I'm going to do all the talk?

Scott Galloway: I'm literally just going to listen and try and keep an open mind and be very supportive of what I, look, you can't sort of heckle from the cheap seats about an absence of regulation and then they try to get out in front of this, which I think is the right thing to do. And I'm going to try and be very supportive. And should they want feedback on it? I think this is a big issue. And I respect the fact that rather than trying to let it grind through the gears of Congress or not, they're trying to get out in front of it. I think it speaks well to the administration that they're at least thinking about it. My guess is they won't get it right. They won't get it perfect. But for God's sakes, at least they're starting, right?

Kara Swisher: And just as we're getting optimistic, there was a meltdown over at OpenAI. This is a stunner in some respects, Steve.

News Anchor: [Audio clip] Yeah, Sam Altman is out as CEO of OpenAI. The board saying, quote, "Mr. Altman's departure follows a deliberative review process by the board, which concluded that he was not consistently candid in his communications with the board."

Kara Swisher: But Sam rebounded pretty robustly and got an offer.

News Anchor: [Audio clip] Hours later. Yeah, literally, minutes later at Microsoft, which he did need to take in the end because he got his original job back, following her pushback from OpenAI employees and investors.

Kara Swisher: When the dust had settled, here's what Cara and I had to say. Sam Altman is back as the CEO of OpenAI, following that whirlwind of chaos last week, which I think we did a very good job covering it. OpenAI's board is getting a major rehaul with nearly all of its members replaced. Not all of them, though. The initial board includes Brett Taylor as chairman, former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, where did he come from? And Adam D'Angelo, the only current board member remaining. I understand he was quite stubborn about that. Sam appears to be ready to head back to work, posting on X with the new board. "And with Satya's support, I'm looking forward to returning to OpenAI and building on our strong partnership with Microsoft." It was interesting. That was his first tweet. Looking back at it, who's the winners, losers, et cetera? I hate to use that reductive term, but it really, there really, a lot was happening here. So give me your overall, just so people know, neither Sam nor Greg Brockman, the former chair on the board. There will still be an internal investigation on what exactly happened with his firing on both sides, by the way. And this board structure obviously has to change. The last thing is, of course, that we have three white guys. It won't stay that way. So any thoughts on all these different things?

Scott Galloway: I think in the fullness of time, the thing that happened here, or what I've been thinking a lot about, is that if you think about the initial mission of OpenAI, I don't even think it was supposed to be a company. I think they initially saw it as a research institute or a think tank that would help, that would study and analyze and make recommendations around the possibilities and more importantly, the dangers of AI. And then they discovered we're really good at this. And then all of a sudden it was a company that became worth $90 billion. So if you look at the shareholder side of this and the products and the value, the economic value they create, call that capital. And then you look at the structure and a big component of the structure and a big part of mission was to think about humanity or AI in the context of humanity. So at a very reductive analysis, you have capital versus humanity. And I would argue that capital literally smothered humanity in its sleep. Whether you think it was a good decision or a bad decision, but when there was $90 billion in an amazing product and the leader in the most exciting new technology emerged, all that fun, nice stuff, important stuff about humanity and the fears of AI, that got smothered in its sleep.

Kara Swisher: I'm not sure it got smothered, Scott. I think it got, let's put this over.

Scott Galloway: I get it. I get it. Let's put this over here on the shelf. That's all fine. That's adorable. But we were about to do a share buyback and a secondary and Sequoia and Andreessen are in here and Microsoft put $12 billion to work and they didn't do it because they're worried about AI and they want to protect humanity from AI. They put 12 or 13 billion bucks into this thing because they think it's going to make a $3 trillion company worth $5 trillion.

Kara Swisher: That is correct.

Scott Galloway: And it'll just be very interesting to see how this moment ages because if, and it all comes back to the same thing for me, and that is for-profit companies are so amazing at generating profits they shouldn't be trusted to do anything else. They shouldn't be trusted to do anything else. And these ridiculous corporate, what are they called? Social purpose companies.

Kara Swisher: No, private benefits, social benefit companies. Something like that, yeah.

Scott Galloway: ESG investing. I think it's the ultimate Sheryl Sandbergian move where we're going to pretend that capitalism and the market can work things out on their own. That when people buy Patagonia or they buy dolphin-friendly tuna or they learn about transparency or some fake organization says that Southwest Airlines is an ESG investment, it dilutes the need for democratic institutions to regulate these organizations.

Kara Swisher: You picked one company who I do think really does walk that talk. Walks the walk. Patagonia.

Scott Galloway: Patagonia. Agreed. They walk the walk.

Kara Swisher: And I think that people who buy there, buy there because of that. And so does Ben and Jerry's. I think that's a successful version of that. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway: Agreed. And I would argue that constitutes less than 0.1% of the market.

Kara Swisher: Yes, I would agree.

Scott Galloway: The majority of research shows around ESG or social-minded companies, they're tiebreakers. The consumers aren't willing to pay for them, but they will, if they're the exact same product at the exact same price, they'll go with the one that's more, that doesn't, you know, the lets dolphins out of its nets or whatever. But this is, and I think it's a time we come to grips with the fact that a lot of this, Social Benefit Organization or ESG, Jazz Hands, is just that.

Kara Swisher: Oh, thanks, Vivek Ramaswamy.

Scott Galloway: Is that Ramaswamy's?

Kara Swisher: Yeah, he does. It's one of his books. Anyway, it's a version of that.

Scott Galloway: That hurt.

Kara Swisher: I know, I'm sorry, but that's what he wrote a whole book about. But go ahead.

Scott Galloway: But to that point, there should be an FDA that says when your mom rewrites an opinion on a failed drug and then takes it public with a SPAC and you sell all of your shit to get a billion dollars, maybe there should be more government oversight. I worry that at the end of the day democratic institutions need to regulate these companies. And all these Byzantine structures and virtue signaling are nothing but a Sandbergian move to serve as a weapon of mass distraction from the fact that for-profit companies are this amazing part of capitalism. They grow, they innovate, they're full.

Kara Swisher: So let's get the government in there, in other words.

Scott Galloway: Let's tax them at a fair rate and not let them take their IP offshore so they can avoid taxes. And then let's use those taxes to hire outstanding people who try to prevent a tragedy of the commons and regulate these companies.

Kara Swisher: Yep, I agree. By the way, Vivek's book is called "Woke Inc.: Inside Corporate America's Social Justice Scam." It's all about ESG. Anyway, let me ask you a different question, though. Is board structure, obviously, Microsoft is getting a board seat. Satya Nadella posted about board changes, noting, "We believe this is the first essential step, the path to more stable, well-informed, effective governance." He kind of, that was the shot across the bow for him. And like, we're going to be watching. I think a lot of people were surprised they didn't have a seat at all or have even an observer status. I think that was, he really pulled the iron out of the fire, as they say here, of his investment in terms of getting this back in Sam's hands. But he definitely, if that had not turned out that way, it would have been very bad for Microsoft, as you saw on Friday after he was fired. That they did not have their hands around this in the way they needed to. It'll be interesting to see if they get a board seat. The other women that were floated at one point was Lorraine Powell-Jobs, Marissa Mayer, Condoleezza Rice. All these, some of these were rejected because they were too close to Sam. It'll be interesting to see who they bring to the board. I sent, I put a list up to many, many people. I put Fei-Fei Li on the board. Why not? She's neither a doomer nor a techno optimist. Someone like that who has sort of a middle ground, sort of like the Supreme Court. You want something that's a little more, I don't know, who is anyone you would think should be on the board? Larry Summers, I don't know where he popped out of, but sure.

Scott Galloway: Look, okay, Microsoft, when I was, let's bring this back to Scott. In the early 70s, when my mom and dad were still married, there was like a year of happiness and my dad was doing well at work. And I distinctly remember this one night where my dad was winning a golf tournament at Corona Del Mar. I never seen my dad that happy. He was just so cheery. And he said, "Do you want to go to the beach?" And he said, "Let's all go to the beach." And we got in his Gran Torino.

Kara Swisher: Oh my. Is this going to end badly? Go ahead.

Scott Galloway: And he said, "Do you want to drive?" And I'm like, eight years old? I'm like, "Yeah." And he's like, "Well, you can sit on my lap and put your hands on the wheel."

Kara Swisher: Oh my God.

Scott Galloway: So I'm driving a Gran Torino sitting on my dad's lap and he's laughing. I was so happy. And I'll bring this back. Okay, Sam Altman is sitting on Satya Nadella's lap. But be clear, Satya Nadella owns the car and is in charge here. Microsoft is in charge. And granted, Sam has his hands on the wheel, but Microsoft will, if not control the sport, have huge influence over it.

Kara Swisher: Yeah.

Scott Galloway: And they are going to, this will be a profit-minded board. They'll add two or three diversity hires that they'll need.

Kara Swisher: So who would you bring on the board? Give me some names.

Scott Galloway: I've given you many. I haven't thought about it. There's a lot of talented people. I would want to bring, I would absolutely want to bring someone who really understands AI and disinformation. I think those are the biggest threats. Also, Kara, and you've said this, you said something that's really resonated with me, and that is the people that design these technologies don't put in place the protections because they've never been victims themselves. And again, we're setting up another technology that's being designed by rich white guys who don't understand what it's like to be the subject of revenge porn or to have your family attacked or feel physically threatened. The thing that people, I mean, as I was thinking through, just going back to Microsoft, the concept of all of these employees going to Microsoft was never a viable, tenable solution because this is what would have happened. There were some employees, a lot of employees, because there's a war on talent at OpenAI that were making supposedly senior engineers making $5 million a year because Sam's like, "I can raise billions. This is a race." So what happens when they show up on the AI team in Microsoft and there's a senior engineer and she's making half a million?

Kara Swisher: Yeah. And Bob from AI is making five million.

Scott Galloway: Yeah. Yeah, it was a problem.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think that they, someone they should have on the board, a media person. Like, Barry Diller is too old, but the lawsuits around copyright, they need a media person.

Scott Galloway: They need a media person. Barry Diller would be great on the board.

Kara Swisher: Yeah. I'd love to see a guy like Jonathan Haidt on the board. I think he just has such a clear blue flame. They need tech people, though, too. They need people who understand the technology. They can't just have, like, I thought Lisa Su, but she's obviously competitor in terms of the chips and stuff like that. But there's a bunch of, I had a list of them. Anyway, they have to be creative here and come up with names we have not heard of. And I would say young and old, too, right? Anyway, one of the things that's very clear is the effective altruism movement, something that the former OpenAI board members were vocal about. A loser here? They've been attacking me all weekend, all the effective altruists. They're not very nice people, these altruists.

Scott Galloway: Really? What have they been saying?

Kara Swisher: I don't know. Oh, just like, "You don't understand." I'm like, "I am so not a techno optimist." It's like, "Do you literally know who you're talking to?" They think, obviously, AI could destroy mankind. They favor safety over speed. Obviously, we favor safety. It doesn't mean you have to be slow, but we favor safety. As I wrote, one of the former board members, Tasha McCauley, was particularly apocalyptic about AI. I had heard that from many people. By the way, Sam Bankman-Fried was also one of the big believers and backers of effective altruism. Someone wants to call it ineffective altruism. It's really gotten a black eye. A lot of people have written about that.

Scott Galloway: I mean, isn't it, again, it goes back to it's reheated ESG, isn't it?

Kara Swisher: I guess. I don't know. I think it's a little more complex. But it's another one of those things that pops out of Silicon Valley and you're like, "Oh, just go take psychedelics."

Scott Galloway: Yeah, that we don't need to be regulated, that we have moved to a different era of philosophical grandeur where we can all still get rich and the government shouldn't get in the way. Or am I being too reductive?

Kara Swisher: Well, I'm not sure. It's that we know what's best. It's a small group of people who knows what's best for the rest of humanity. That's when I, whenever I'm with any of them, I'm like, "So you're the one that's going to decide this." I feel like I'd rather have the dirty mass do it, right? Like the mass, the mob. I prefer the mob over this group any day of the week, right? And I don't like the mob that much.

Scott Galloway: Well, okay. Here's who's had the most consequential impact in the last 90 days, who has ring-fenced the war in the Middle East from becoming a regional in a World War III. And it's the most noble organization in the world. And it's us. And us is the U.S. government. And there will always be people who want to build islands offshore or believe that different movements, that they should co-opt the government after they've made their money or cosplay the government. But I'm going with the most innovative payment platform in history called the U.S. dollar. And I'm going with the organization that gets at least wrong over the long term, and that's the U.S. government.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, I don't know. One of these things pops up in Silicon Valley all the time. I find, some of the ideas are good, but making it into a movement in a cult feels really weird. Anyway, we'll see what happens. We'll see. Maybe you'll get on the board of it or I'll get on the board of it.

Scott Galloway: Unlikely, Cara. That's just unlikely.

Kara Swisher: I would be the GOP candidate. Someone was like, "Kara should be on the board." I'm like, "I would be the GOP candidate before I would get on the board of OpenAI." I don't know. You check a lot of boxes, Kara.

Scott Galloway: I do. I would do it. I would do it. You check a lot of boxes.

Kara Swisher: I do. I'd be irritating to them. They don't know what I'm going to do. That's the issue. I'm not controllable.

Scott Galloway: What do you mean to them?

Kara Swisher: Yeah. Whether or not I end up on the board of OpenAI, which I should, the growth of AI.

Scott Galloway: That'll happen. That'll happen. That'll happen.

Kara Swisher: You know what? Nikki Haley is picking me as a running mate, too.

Scott Galloway: Better chance of that. Better chance of that.

Kara Swisher: It is true. But anyway, the growth of AI over the next year will make this year's look glacial by comparison and we'll be covering every bit of it. That's Cagney and Lacey go to Washington. They were the original lesbians. Even I had a sense something was going on there in the 70s. I'm not dating Nikki Haley. Anyway.

Scott Galloway: All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break.

Kara Swisher: She's a good looking woman. She's a good-looking woman. Let's be clear.

Scott Galloway: When we come back, and Gavin Newsom's a good-looking man for you.

Kara Swisher: All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the year of strikes and one of your favorite subjects, the Barbie movie.

Scott Galloway: Oh, God.

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Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back with our end of year review, looking at some of our hottest takes on the biggest stories of the year. And few stories got our listeners riled up, like the entertainment strikes. What are we doing? Moving around furniture on the Titanic? It's crazy. So the jig is up, AMPTP. Let's listen to one of your early takes on it.

Scott Galloway: The 80s in Britain, the coal miners are, I think it was the national...

Kara Swisher: You're doing a coal mining prediction? But go ahead. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway: I'm setting it up. I don't want to be replaced by AI. I'm trying to provide some creative context here. So I think it was the National Mineworkers Union took on Margaret Thatcher. And basically, Thatcher said, "This is my moment to show that I'm the Iron Lady. We need to move to different types of energy" and just said no over and over and basically broke the back of the coal miners union. The same thing's about to happen here with the writers. They have the same skill set or a similar skill set to authors, to journalists, and they make a lot more money. In addition, this is a dream come true for the studios, an enforced multilateral pause in spending as they recalibrate and have cloud cover to come back with fewer employees. The union here, the writers' union, has so badly miscalculated the power dynamic here. And the studios are going to slowly but surely, quietly, they are going to break their backs. And this is going to end really poorly for the writers. It's going to end really—I can't—it's almost—I wouldn't be surprised if we found out that the studio heads got together and said, "Piss off and upset the writers' union so they go on strike and force all of us to stop spending in producing content." Because every individual is like, "I got eight shows I haven't gotten to yet that I'd like to watch." So this is going to be remnant. This is the information age coal miner strike in the UK. It's going to end really poorly for the writers. They are totally, and all this virtue signaling with stars that make $10 and $20 million a year showing up and pretending that they stand with their brothers and sisters. I just think it's hilarious. You're going to see this union come back to the table and the studios are going to just do what used to happen to me when I was trying to raise money through the 90s with VCs. They're going to grin fuck them. They're going to say, "That's interesting. Writers are really important to us. We should keep talking" and they're going to do nothing. And then when a bunch of the writers that are going to be replaced by AI anyways, start thinking, "I can't pay my rent" and start putting pressure on the union to settle, the union's going to end up with a worse deal than they had going into this thing. So my prediction, the information age equivalent of the British coal miner strike is happening with the writer's strike, and it's going to end the same way.

Kara Swisher: Who's Margaret Thatcher?

Scott Galloway: So the studio heads are Margaret Thatcher. You don't get my analogy?

Kara Swisher: I thought that was pretty good. I do. I get it. I agree with you. A bunch of writers and actors have written me, and I'm like, I think you don't have leverage here.

Scott Galloway: A lot of people disagreed with us, Scott, but we made our point and we definitely called the end of the writer's strike.

News Anchor: The Hollywood writers and studios have reached a tentative agreement on a new contract. That's after a marathon five days of talks. The deal still needs approval from the union board and members for the strike to end.

Kara Swisher: But first, let's talk about us because we predicted this pretty closely. We initially thought it might go on and on. We never thought it would be short, but let's hear what I said back in August 17th when Don Lemon was co-hosting.

Scott Galloway [clip]: My prediction, I'm going to go separately, not on Donald Trump, but on the writer's strike. I feel like it may settle by October 15th. I think there's some pain starting to be felt by the studios who are in a better position from a leverage point of view. I think there's a lot of pain from writers and actors. And I don't think calling them rich people is really working particularly well with the public. And I think they have to settle on some level and maybe push certain things down the road. I don't know. I just feel like maybe by October, they'll have to be settled.

Kara Swisher: Here's what you said a little over a week ago.

Scott Galloway [clip]: Okay. So Drew and Bill were shamed. They said, look, this is really awful. You're being an awful person. But they effectively ended the strike. And I believe the writer's strike is going to end in the next 30 days, if not the next two weeks. Here's the thing. The writer's strike gets done within the next 30 days because the big guys that aren't Netflix, the big guys sans Netflix are like, okay, we've been played. Netflix, this was a feature, not a bug for Netflix. The writers, the most important people, the most talented and probably smartest and biggest voices that I can tell, my pulse marketing talk to them are like, I am fed up with this shit. We have handled this poorly.

Kara Swisher: So we got it right. Let's talk what's in the deal first. As of the taping, we don't have the full details, but the New York Times reports the writers got some concessions on most of their demands from the studios, including bigger royalty payments for streaming content and guarantees that AI won't chip away at their credits and compensation. So what do you think? Besides we're geniuses.

Scott Galloway: I think this is another signal at the beginning of the end of unions.

Kara Swisher: Interesting. People think they're stronger. Tell me why.

Scott Galloway: And that's perfect for corporations. Continue to give labor the illusion that they're well represented when only 11% of the workforce or about three or 4% of the population are even members of unions, such that corporations can slice and dice and either move to the 27 states in the union that have basically outlawed unions. But look at it this way, and we won't know until we get the results. First off, no matter what the terms were, the WGA has to pretend it's some monumental victory. Otherwise, why exactly did I lose six months of income? But look at it this way. It's a three-year deal. Effectively, they took everyone's wages as a means of negotiating, took a lot of their members or all of their members down to a compensation of zero for six months. So over a three-year deal, that means that unless they got an increase of total compensation of 16%, they've lost money because people are out of work for six months. So I'll be very curious to see the language, but this hot girl union summer is nothing but a head fake in jazz hands. The number of people who are actually in unions declined last year. And again, the stat that just kind of purposely embodies the dissonance here, the head fake around labor and its effectiveness, is that 330 Starbucks unionized. Yes, you noted this last week. Okay. Not one of them got a collective bargaining agreement. And that is for all the jazz hands and excitement and headlines around 330 Starbucks stores unionizing, it hasn't translated to a single cent in increased compensation for those workers.

Kara Swisher: Well, not yet, right? Presumably not yet. They're just getting started, that particular group. We're just getting started with the end of this. Okay. All right. Now tell me, I want you to make, I know this is hard for you. I want you to make that a pro-union argument, but what was good about what they did? You think nothing.

Scott Galloway: About what the writers did?

Kara Swisher: Yeah. About what the writers and the actors and the UAW, et cetera, et cetera.

Scott Galloway: They're bringing attention to the fact that in a nation where work is central to our economy and productivity and gives people purpose, and in a nation where we've had unprecedented prosperity, it needs to translate to progress. And a small nod towards progress is that anyone that works 40 hours should have some dignity and not live below the poverty line. Their aim is true. Their intentions are valid. They are the wrong construct. And instead of going to join a picket line that represents 4% of America, Joe Biden should do his job and raise minimum wage for the first time in 15 years across 100% of workers.

Kara Swisher: In the end, the writers won a $233 million three-year deal with producers, including pay bumps, bonuses, and AI regulations. Plus, you did say one phrase we don't often say. Can you guess what that was?

Scott Galloway: I was wrong. I don't know. What did I say?

Kara Swisher: Let me just say I love labor. I just think the construct representing 11% of labor is not doing an effective job for all 100%.

Scott Galloway: First off, let me acknowledge, I said it would break the backs of the Writers Union, similar to the coal miners. I was wrong. The Writers Union is going to be intact. I think they did get some substantive concessions. But I don't, quite frankly, I think there's some liberal media bias here calling this thing exceptional. The media takes the bait and says substantial victory. And I've read through this agreement. So let's just talk about it. They're getting an increase of 5%, minimum increases of compensation, 5%. Then 4% at the three-year deal, and then 3.5%. So that's 12.5%. Now you could discount it back because they're not getting the other four and the other three and a half to the years two and three. But let's just call it 12.5%. Let's just give them the benefit of the doubt. If it's a three-year deal and they forced everyone to make zero for five months, they got to get 14% just to get back to even water. But let's say, well, Scott, that's not fair because those increases will help them negotiate a new deal in three years. All right. Since their last deal, inflation is up 10%. I think any economist is going to look at this deal and go, hey, writers, not any of your fault, but as a function of the economy and the fact there's too many of you, you are now making less money on a real wage level after this deal than you were when you struck the last deal three years ago.

Kara Swisher: The Screen Actors Guild ended its strike on November 8th, also winning higher wages and limits on AI, plus streaming bonuses.

Scott Galloway: I just can't fucking handle this. It was a giant fucking nothing burger. Well done. Declare victory and leave with your loss. Jesus Christ.

Kara Swisher: Another prominent labor action we covered, the six-week rolling strike by United Auto Workers, a real union that had real leverage and didn't have their head up their asses and actually negotiated a better life for their constituents. Anyways, and their innovative leader, Shawn Fain, who won them sizable pay raises, cost of living adjustments, and more from the big three automakers. Don't forget, there was also the largest healthcare strike in U.S. history, also easily resolved. And as of this taping, there have been more than 350 labor actions in more than 600 locations throughout the country. Scott, has the year changed your mind at all about the state of unions in the U.S., which you pillory constantly?

Scott Galloway: I don't think there's any denying that if you look at what the UAW has accomplished, and also they're starting to feel, I mean, they've reached down and they feel these two round things called testicles. They are going after bigger and bigger fish here. It would be impossible not to acknowledge the gains of unions, specifically the UAW.

Kara Swisher: Okay. But do you think that's a template for where people could go, where you actually do a good job for your constituents?

Scott Galloway: Well, I mean, a longer conversation here. I think over time that with red states, right to work states, which is basically code for anti-union, that we have, unfortunately, an economic structure that preys on lower middle income people and that we need more government intervention and regulation in one union called the federal government through minimum wage. But that's anyways, that's my TED talk.

Kara Swisher: One of the biggest stories of 2023 was, of course, girl power. I actually don't believe that, but anyways, it's written here, which Kara reminded me repeatedly. Again, this copy is written by a bunch of women, not girls. Because we're correct, and you are, as you said earlier, wrong. Hi, Barbie. Hi, Ken. Hi, Barbie. Hi, Barbie. The Barbie movie grossed around $1.4 billion globally. Beyonce's tour boosted the U.S. economy by $4.5 billion. and Taylor Swift's generated about $5.7 billion domestically. And she's still going, but Scott still struggled to get on board.

Scott Galloway: She waved at me at her concert and I didn't wave back. I'm expecting an album about me.

Kara Swisher: She didn't. She was calling the police. But let's listen to what you had to say.

Scott Galloway [clip]: Yeah, there's a few things that have more cultural significance than I know less about. Like if you held a gun to my head and said, "Oh, no, don't say this. The Swifties will come for you. Say a Swift song." I would know. So, but everything I've understood about her is that she's a great artist and a good person. And most importantly, just because I know you want to bring this back to me. Okay. I went on ChatGPT. Yeah. I'm obsessed with this. I know you are. I'm really obsessed with this. I know you are. And I said, write a song about Taylor Swift falling in love with Scott Galloway. Oh, no. And it came back with this ballad. And the ballad was kind of vanilla. So, I decided to spice it up. And I added the element that makes every story better. Specifically my erectile dysfunction. So I said, in reference to his erectile dysfunction, and let me read you just a few ballads. He's an NYU professor, silver-tongued and smart. In the sea of suits and ties, he's a work of art. Even though he's got a secret, one that makes him feel so small, he's still the bravest man standing so tall. He's open and he's honest about his private fight, a struggle that's unseen hidden in the night. But he stands strong unashamed. Where's his truth like a crown? Oh, Scott Galloway, your courage brings me down.

Kara Swisher: Oh, no. Or she could fall in love with me, go on two dates and then write ballads about me. She runs her, she's such a great business person. She runs her own shit. She gets shit done. She puts on a great show. She's like the all, she's like a multi, omnipreneur I like. Like she runs everything. Super impressive woman. She also didn't take the money from the FTXs of the world. She just looked at it and said, no. Remember Barbenheimer weekend? It seems so long ago when Barbie and Oppenheimer came out on the same day and everyone went to both except Scott. Scott refused to see Barbie for a long time. I mean, even Matt Gaetz went before Scott did.

Scott Galloway: I actually sat near him. So you got that going for you.

Kara Swisher: I wish I'd sat right next to Lo and Bobo.

Scott Galloway: Hello. Can she date my 17-year-old? Seriously. That is every. Oh, stop. Beetlejuice. No. Get to grab breasts and get Big Edna twins yanked. Oh, my God. The ultimate date for a 17-year-old. That's our elected. Welcome to Congress. Welcome to Congress.

Kara Swisher: Look back at your idiotic comments on this. Representative Boebert, come on over. All right, move on. Come on up. Little matinee for the dog? Little matinee? Play the tape, producers.

News Anchor: But first, the Barbie movie comes out today, and Matt Gaetz's wife doesn't think you should watch it.

Scott Galloway: I actually went to the same screening as Ginger and Matt Gaetz. They were sitting right near me, posted photos of her and her husband on the red carpet at the premiere, which was at the British Embassy for the film, while giving her not-so-positive review among her complaints. It, quote, neglects to address any notion of faith or family, which is weird because it's about dolls, and disappointingly low tea from Ken. I don't feel this is correct, having seen it. And by the way, they were both laughing quite a bit during the movie. Just FYI.

Kara Swisher: What did you think of the movie?

Scott Galloway: I loved it. I thought it was great. I thought it was funny.

Kara Swisher: That's interesting. Why?

Scott Galloway: It's deep and shallow at the same time, if that makes sense. It's very funny. There's all kinds of kitschy stuff. There's all these throwbacks to old movies, whether it's The Truman Show or Singing in the Rain or Busby Berkeley musicals or, you know, a lot, The Wizard of Oz. So it's got a lot of that funness and the costumes are fantastic. There's a lot of very funny jokes at making fun of feminism. It makes fun of woke men. It makes fun of manly men. It makes fun of Mattel quite a bit. So it has a nice sense of humor about everyone. And the whole thing about Loti from Ken, the whole point is to talk about what Ken really is, which is an accessory to Barbie, as my wife Amanda says. I thought it was really well done and adorable. There's a few, you know, kind of goofy notes. At one point, America Ferrara has to give kind of a feminist-y speech that I would have – they didn't need it. They were making those points without hitting you over the head with it. But otherwise, Greta Gerwig is a gifted, gifted filmmaker. And I have to say, Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling were fantastic. He steals the show in a lot of ways because he's got this kind of boneheaded character. Reminded me a great deal of you, Scott.

Scott Galloway: Thanks for that.

Kara Swisher: No problem. I hear that a lot about me and Ryan Gosling. I get that a lot. I get that a lot. I mean, in this role as Ken, you're a Ken. If you call me a Karen, I'm going to call you a Ken from now on. And he just is great. He steals the show because he's got so many great outfits, et cetera. Scott, it was a huge weekend at the box office. Barbenheimer brought in a combined grand total of $244 million in ticket sales in the first three days. That's a big number. Barbie accounted for $162 million of that, while Oppenheimer brought in $82 million, well over expectations for both of those movies. That's 12.8 million tickets bought for Barbie and 5.8 million for Oppenheimer. It's set to be the fourth highest box office weekend of all time. And Greta Gerwig is now the most, has sold the most tickets for female director in, I think, history. The people have spoken. Barbie is clearly the winner here, financially speaking. You have not seen Barbie still, even though it's about men and women and the things you talk about of men being lost. I will ask how you thought of Oppenheimer, but Barbie was the clear winner financially and is leading the way and dragging and bringing Oppenheimer, which is also a fantastic movie, with it. And combined together, people were very excited and made it an appointment viewing, which hasn't happened in a long time for both of them. And they both spurred interest in each other. So tell me what you thought of Oppenheimer.

Scott Galloway: Well, first of all, the weekend and the box office receipts are really a win all around. I mean, if there was an industry that needed good news, it's not only just Hollywood, it's specifically movie theater. And something that was really inspiring, we did dinner before Mission Impossible at the Century City Mall. I'm not exaggerating. The mall was electric, and everyone was wearing pink.

Kara Swisher: For Oppenheimer, then. No, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: For Oppenheimer. All the women were in pink. There was a lot of men wearing pink. and I thought it was nice. I think anything that creates sort of a collective is nice. I think we need more of that. We actually, our plane got delayed on Saturday by four hours. So I said, all right, let's bomb to the movie theater. And we went to the Van Nuys Regency and we were five minutes late to see Barbie. So we saw Oppenheimer.

Kara Swisher: When Scott finally did see Barbie, well, it didn't go that well. Let's listen.

Scott Galloway [clip]: Okay, so I saw Barbie.

Kara Swisher: Oh, oh, oh, okay. Let's hear it. Let's hear it.

Scott Galloway [clip]: I just think it was such genius, like threading the duality of life and measured humor that was insightful, yet didn't take itself too seriously around identity politics. I really think it's one of the movies of the ages in a deeply relevant statement about our society.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. You're fucking with me, right?

Scott Galloway: I walked out.

Kara Swisher: What? What?

Scott Galloway: I walked out, yeah.

Kara Swisher: What do you mean? Why?

Scott Galloway: I mean, I bought a ticket. I went in. I sat there for 45 minutes. And as usual, I had to go to the bathroom, and I'm one of those theaters where it's a pain to go to the bathroom. I just didn't have the – I don't know. I was too embarrassed to go back, and I was a little bit high on edibles, and I'm like, I'd rather go to Carl's Pharmacy. Here's how I save the night.

Kara Swisher: Okay, why didn't you like it? It's literally crossing the billion mark, but okay, go ahead.

Scott Galloway: Sarah, I'm a 48-year-old guy with erectile dysfunction who drinks bourbon and watches Goodfellas and warm movies at night. I mean, how could I like Barbie? Come on!

Kara Swisher: It's funny. I just want to say— I want you to say one nice thing about it, but go ahead.

Scott Galloway: I think she's spectacular. I think he's spectacular. The set design was beautiful. I get why people like it. There's some really—that's not—what I will say is this. When I read the book Moneyball, it's about analytics and sports. I'm aware, yeah. And I heard they were making a movie. I'm like, how on earth are they going to make a movie? And they made a fantastic film out of something I never thought could be made into a movie. What I will say is it's not easy to make a movie about Barbie because it's so charged. It could just go so many wrong ways so often. And they do, I thought they thread the needle perfectly. I thought it laughed at itself, but it also had deep meaning. I love the black and white scenes with the mother and the daughter. That stuff always tugs at my heart. But yeah, I saved the evening. I left. I walked out.

Kara Swisher: What was happening when you walked out and had to pee? What was happening when you were peeing? You didn't even get to Casa Dojo Mojo with Ken? You didn't get to that? America Ferreira, is that her name? And her daughter pulled up to save her from somewhere.

Scott Galloway: From Mattel.

Kara Swisher: From Mattel Yeah That where I You didn get back to Barbie land with Ken

Scott Galloway: I went back to something better. I went to this place in Aspen called Carl Pharmacy and it has all these old toys. And I got, get this, I got a Stretch Armstrong. I got a miniature version of an Etch-A-Sketch. I got a Lint Brush and a Clark Bar and the book Dune. I mean, how do you know I was on edibles without knowing I was on edibles? And then I went home and just stared at my purchases for an hour, and I watched TikTok. It was a fantastic evening.

Kara Swisher: Oh, my God. I don't get why Barbie is so popular. There's a whole dude section. There's a whole male, like, identity section. I can't believe it. I get it. I still don't understand. How can she be so popular when her knees don't even bend? That's good. Okay. That's good. You know what's going to have to happen now? You need to watch the rest of it, and you and I are going to watch the rest of it. You and I in your apartment in New York.

Scott Galloway: The disqualifies as workplace harassment.

Kara Swisher: The matriarchy is, again, forcing me to do things I don't want to do. Oh, you're such an idiot. The women are making money and making shit happen. And you're eating edibles and playing with Stretch Armstrong. That pretty much sums it up. That's a surprise to you. More women, more single women-owned homes than single men. Women are killing it. Our listeners were angry at you for not staying for the whole thing, Scott, and justifiably so. We got a lot of emails about that, but you did a little better with Taylor Swift once you stopped telling terrible jokes about her.

Scott Galloway: Taylor Swift was amazing!

Kara Swisher: Oh, you went to Taylor Swift?

Scott Galloway: Yeah, I got you a friendship bracelet. I got your friendship bracelets. I would like that. I have them with my son, actually, or my sons. Yeah, yeah, I have several for you. One says reputation. The other says haters gonna hate. Other says Swift as fuck boy. Was it great? People say she puts on an amazing show. Scott, let me just say, by the way, it was crawling with Silicon Valley people who had the fancy seats. I had good seats. I had good seats, but not like the fancy down on the floor seats. I have a couple of observations. What an astonishing performer. What an astonishing. She delivered, what's beyond thousand percent? I mean, first of all, the visuals were amazing. So she used visuals beautifully on these screens that were just like such an, it was like a theatrical show in that regard, but beautiful and amazing. She shifted from really like very elaborate dance stuff and moves to like her gal with a guitar or a piano. Amazing. She commanded this. It's a Levi's Stadium. I think it was 75,000 people. She held them in the palm of her hand. She also 44 songs got three and a half hours. Let me, I can't even. And without much of a break. Costumes were astonishing. Her dancers, she gave a lot of space to them. And so they looked like they were having fun. They made her look good. I mean, this one, and then she spoke to the audience and she's so, you know, she's obviously highly intelligent, but her connection with the audience is, the girls around me were a lot of young girls, a lot of teenage girls losing their minds, but also older women, a lot of dads, a lot of dads, like Pivot, let me just say, I did a lot of selfies with dads who are there with their daughters. They were thrilled to see me asking all about, They don't agree with you on Taylor Swift, by the way. They said, get lit. Teach Scott about Taylor Swift. And I said, OK, I shall. Can we make a deal? If I stop with the dick jokes, will you never bring up Taylor Swift again?

Kara Swisher: No, no, no. Because you're not going to stop with the dick jokes.

Scott Galloway: Fair enough. Fair enough. Big Ed and the twins are still with us.

Kara Swisher: All right. But let me just say dick jokes do not, you know, are not the engine of our economy and keeping us out of recession. All right, Scott, one more quick break. When we return, it was a stellar year for our banter and insults. We'll share some highlights.

[Ad Break]

Kara Swisher: Scott, we're back. One of the biggest complaints we get is that we talk about Elon Musk too much. And we do talk about him a lot. But whenever we talk about him, there's a common thread. Let's see if you can pick it out.

Scott Galloway [clip]: Greatest self-inflicted wound in history in terms of public perception is Elon Musk, had he never downloaded the Twitter app, would be the most admired person universally globally, hands down.

News Anchor: Elon Musk has responded to the new Twitter competition in a characteristically classy manner. On the day Threads was unveiled, he threatened to sue Meta over it, which most people think is nonsense. A few days later, he tweeted, "Zuck is a cuck," and challenged Zuckerberg to, quote, a literal dick measuring contest ruler emoji.

Kara Swisher: What a funny, he's 52, people. Let me just start again. He's 52 years old. He's an old man. I realize I'm playing amateur therapist here. This isn't the person who is very happy at their steady state. You know, it's just, this was a very expensive way to feed his ego. And I'll tell you, if this guy had a dollar for every really stupid and racist thing he did, he'd be, oh wait, he does. He does, nevermind. Yeah. But here's my mini review of the Musk bio. Sad and smart son, slowly morphs into mentally abusive father he abhors, except for with rockets, cars and more money. Often right, sometimes wrong, petty jerk always. Might be crazy in a good way, but also a bad way. Pile O' Babies, not Steve Jobs. You're welcome. That's my review. Pile O' Babies.

Scott Galloway: Pile O' Babies. You know, I think the most generous thing you could say is it was an intense bout of jet lag. But there's something going on here. And I, of course, went to chat GPT and I typed in, what are the symptoms of a narcissist having a breakdown? And it came back with intense rage and anger, blame shifting, emotional dysregulation, paranoia, depression, anxiety, manipulative behaviors, isolation, self-destructive behaviors, increased sensitivity to criticism and breakdown of relationships. I mean, his statements were so ridiculous, Kara. Do you realized that 497 of the Fortune 500 companies in the United States are clearly blackmailing us because they refuse to advertise on our platform. And then to go after Disney, and it's like, just the whole thing was just, and to be that profane and that aggressive, and then to somehow threaten advertisers that the world will hold you accountable if Twitter goes down. Earth, Earth will, Earth will. I thought the most disturbing part as someone who raised his boys, I'm talking about as a 13-year-old, just the incredible hardship and dysfunction he faced. And so his answer or his response to this incredible abuse, being the son of a model and an emerald miner, was the decision to save humanity by making us an interplanetary species. I mean, he's literally, he's just like kind of fucking lost his shit.

Kara Swisher: Yeah, he's deluded. This is a 52-year-old man, okay? He's a 52-year-old. This is how he behaves. It's shameful. I think we've made ourselves clear, but if not, I'm sure there will be more to discuss in 2024. Anyway, speaking of chodes, this is my favorite part of the show as we look back at some of our best insults and banter. But first, let's start off with some, and there's a lot to pick from, of your not-so-humble brags, or your, as I like to call them, the weakest flexes in the world.

Scott Galloway [clip]: Twitter will have a new chief twit. Last week, Elon Musk teased that he had found a new CEO to take over parts of the company. On Friday, he confirmed what Kara Swisher had long known. Another prediction. It wasn't really a prediction. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Ding, ding, ding, that the job was going to Linda Yaccarino.

Kara Swisher: By the way, Wall Street Journal, I did know it. Stop it. Stop pretending you're an exclusive. I went on the end of that call from Uber and Yahoo and all these companies where you had shitty CEOs and you call me and say, I can't believe you. You were so right. And I'm like, I literally am going to hang up. I can't believe you were so right. They do. They say that. Don't we like me?

Scott Galloway: I feel impressed that you threw the word declension into that conversation, Cara. You get points for that from the vocab gods.

Kara Swisher: I got 700 on my SATs, but go ahead. No idea what that means. Go ahead.

Scott Galloway: I've inferred it from the context, Scott. On our emergency pod, when we taped on Friday, they had real problems or scandals. Let's play a clip again where Kara's the hero.

Kara Swisher: I'm not the hero. I just want you to respect my reporting skills. I am actually, I think, the finest tech reporter in Silicon Valley. So you might respect me for who I am. Listen to you. People love it when we disagree, which we always do with grace and maturity. Here are some examples. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Here are some examples.

Scott Galloway [clip]: I thought your whole thing this year was to be nicer.

Kara Swisher: You remind me of sickness and death.

Scott Galloway: I get that every day when I see myself naked. I don't need you showing up with your horse voice. I'm in very good shape otherwise.

Kara Swisher: All right, Scott, when you decide to become less of a douche nozzle, we will move on.

Scott Galloway: Douche nozzle? Douche nozzle is my favorite word. That's what the young people say. Let's just go a little bit behind the music here. I get invited, and so you find a way to muscle your way.

Kara Swisher: I didn't find a way. I was also, it said Kara and Scott, by the way, my name first. And no one forwarded.

Scott Galloway: No, it says Scott Calloway.

Kara Swisher: No, I got it. My invite says Scott. I will send you the invitation to both of us. And they forgot to forward it to me. It came into our pivot email. And they were wondering why I hadn't responded. I have been hauling a suit around the great.

Scott Galloway: You're wearing a suit?

Kara Swisher: Oh, not me. I'm going to the White House. You're not wearing a suit?

Kara Swisher: No, I've been there a hundred times now. You've never been there. How exciting.

Scott Galloway: Yes, I know. Which means, I know you're a hundred times more important than me.

Kara Swisher: No, I've never been there. I didn't say that. I've just been there a hundred times. I've lived in Washington.

Scott Galloway: Well, yes, you did, kind of. Little bit.

Kara Swisher: No, I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. Stop with your weird insecurity about everything. I just happened to live there.

Scott Galloway: My insecurity is called common sense. Have you met me?

Kara Swisher: I covered it as a reporter. So I have obviously been there. It's wonderful. You're going to love it. I'm really excited. It's a thrill every time I go there.

Scott Galloway: First off, when I saw in the script today that we were going to replay some back and forth between you and me, it was like watching this crime drama I grew up on called Scooby-Doo. Where there was always just a shock at the end that the innkeeper was the one who was the ghost. And I'm like, whatever this back and forth is between Kara and me, Kara is the hero and she is right.

Kara Swisher: I was, though. Actually, can you just acknowledge that my reporting was stellar?

Scott Galloway: You were right. But let me, first off, when I see people on the street, they don't say, "Oh, you bring the greatest insight around tech, Yonkara." They say, "We love the chemistry between Yonkara." So let me just go meta here and find out why you are so desperate to always be the hero.

Kara Swisher: Hold on, hold on. I will tell you why, but go ahead. Hold on. I grew up on two hours a day. We were an experiment in Laguna Niguel and the shores for cable TV. I grew up on four episodes a day of I Dream of Jeannie and one episode a day of Scooby-Doo.

Scott Galloway: Me too.

Kara Swisher: So I am a sexist who doesn't trust people close to me. And this is what I think happens to you. You'd walk into the garage and your mom would be talking to Jeffrey. And like moms, you know, most moms who treat their boys with... Jeffrey would say, "Mom, can you get me another six pack?" And she'd go get it. And he'd be like, "I'm thinking about going to med school." And she'd say something along the lines of, "Well, whatever you want, because mommy loves you and you are wonderful."

Scott Galloway: No, I didn't have that.

Kara Swisher: And then you would walk into the garage and she'd say something like, "You look fat in that." Or "What are you wearing? You look like a lesbian." And the need... I just want you to know, here's the need, Scott. You matter. For all women. We love you.

Scott Galloway: Here's the need. You matter. We love you. How about I was wrong? How about that might come out of your mouth?

Kara Swisher: I get it wrong all the time. I constantly say I get it wrong all the time. Here's the deal. I was listening to it and you mansplained me on something.

Scott Galloway: And you were playing it over and over and over?

Kara Swisher: No, only because I had to deal with that online.

Scott Galloway: This is the closest thing to porn you watch. You stop talking. Stop talking.

Kara Swisher: Last year, our signature insult was "salacious fucks," but we came up with some new ones this year. Check them out. "He's a fucking idiot." "A mendacious, consistent serial liar." "He's just a crusty old fuck." "Greg, fathead, and the other guy, Jesse, whatever the fuck." "The blowjob on a piece of paper." "Sad, flaccid, punchy men in their 50s." "Noodle, noodle spine people."

Scott Galloway: Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back next year for more Pivot, more insults, more love. Because we love each other more than ever.

Kara Swisher: That's it. More than ever.

Scott Galloway: If you're wrong, I don't want to be right.

Kara Swisher: I'm so excited for Barbie 2. We're going to go together.

Scott Galloway: You complete me without Barbie.

Kara Swisher: Okay, today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Travis Larchuk, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miel Saverio, and Gaddy McBain. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back in the new year for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Greatness is in the agency of others.

Scott Galloway: So one more time, today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Travis Larchuk, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Andrew Tutte engineered this episode. Thanks again to Drew Gross, Miel Severo, and Gaddy McBain. A wonderful team, a wonderful year. Thank you so much.

Kara Swisher: And speaking of great, one last time, Taylor Swift.

Scott Galloway: There you go.

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