--:-- Mel Robbins: Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. I'm really excited that you tuned in today because I know you are going to love this episode. How can I say that? Well, let me tell you how I can say it. Because you have been asking, "Mel, can we please get more advice on how you start a business? Give us more advice on how you lean into your ideas. And can you please bring us more stories about how a normal person with no prior experience can create a hundred million dollar business?"
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, today I am delivering exactly what you asked for. I have another remarkable person here for you to meet. Her name is Allie Webb. She founded a little business here in the U.S. called Dry Bar. It's a blow dry bar where you go and you get a blowout in your hair, and she changed the beauty industry. And when she started this idea, she was a 32-year-old stay-at-home mom of two kids who had an itch to get out of the house. She was not looking to disrupt the beauty industry. She was not looking to create a $100 million brand. In her words, you know what she says? "I had no business being in business."
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, let me tell you something. She's wrong and you're wrong. If you're telling yourself you have no business being in business, if you're telling yourself you don't have a good idea, you don't know what to do, I'm calling BS and I'm introducing you to Ali Webb, the founder of Drybar. That's not the only company that she has started. She has gone on to start multiple very successful companies. She has written a brand new book, *The Messy Truth: How I Sold My Business for Millions but Almost Lost Myself*, where she tells you the whole story of growing this $100 million business from scratch, the cost of it, the messy things behind, and most importantly, the very simple, actionable takeaways that are going to inspire you and get you started on whatever itch it is you need to scratch, whatever idea it is that you've been putting off.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Today is the day we stop thinking. We get messy and we tell you the truth about why you, yes, you, have a $100 million idea in you too. So please help me welcome Allie Webb to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
--:-- Alli Webb: I mean, it's just such an honor to be here. I can't believe it. Let me just start by saying one thing. I had no business being in business.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yeah. That's why I wanted to talk to you. Because that is a story. And a lot of women tell themselves that story. "I have no business being in business. I didn't go to college. I didn't even graduate from high school. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm this. I'm that. I'm the other thing." And the truth is, so many of the most successful people that we all admire had no business, quote, going in business because they didn't get an MBA.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk to you and have everybody hear your story is because so many people listening, 194 countries, so many people listening or watching on YouTube have a desire to start something. And I want you to unpack the whole journey of how you went from a hairdresser that didn't go to college with three young kids—no, two young kids—that have no business being in business, building a hundred million dollar company.
--:-- Alli Webb: Yeah. But then there's also the behind the scenes stuff, like raising a family and going through divorce and your kid going to rehab and the real messy stuff that happens because we can't separate it all. I mean, it's bananas. But I grew up in—God bless my parents. My mom passed away about eight years ago, but it was like, "We hope you marry well." I grew up in that generation where women weren't... it was a man's world.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I want you to put us at the scene. So where were you in life when your life took a turn toward this small idea? What were you doing? How old were you?
--:-- Alli Webb: Well, I moved to New York City when I was about 18. I went to college for like a second. And I was so lost. I was so lost. And the thing that kept coming back to me was hair. It was right in front of me. I mean, I loved hair. I always loved hair. I would spend hours in the bathroom when I was in high school trying to figure it out. I was just fascinated by it. And I was like, "I think I want to go to beauty school." And my brother was the first person I told. I said, "I think I want to go to beauty school." And he was like, "I think you should. You're really good with people and you love hair." And I was like, "I know. I should just do that."
--:-- Alli Webb: And when I told my mom and dad, it was a very different conversation. They're like, "Really?" And it's like, I just knew that was the thing. That was the thing that I loved. And I think that we sometimes feel like it's not cool or it's not this or it's not that, so we don't want to do it. So we want to take this path that everybody thinks we should take.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Right. Screw that. Well, there's this whole body of research around if you lean into something you already love, whether it's video games or music, that you will be more successful because you will naturally want to spend more time working at it because you enjoy doing it.
--:-- Alli Webb: So I should back up a little. I moved to New York City. I thought I wanted to do something in fashion. I ended up getting into hair and I met my now ex-husband, Cameron, when we lived in New York. We got married. I'm very driven when I want something and I wanted babies. I was 27, wanting kids really bad. I mean, I really wanted to have babies.
--:-- Mel Robbins: There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's a beautiful thing.
--:-- Alli Webb: And I was like, "This is what I want to do." I met Cam. I was jumping around from career to career like you do in your 20s, waiting to have babies. Truly. I was like, I've always been a big romantic and loved love and wanted kids and all that. So we meet when I'm like 26, get married when I'm like 27, 28.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Nice. Very fast. Landed the plane.
--:-- Alli Webb: Yes, I landed the plane. Within a year, had our first. And we moved from New York City to L.A. And I became a stay-at-home mom. And I just started to kind of, around the time where my kids were about two and four, I started to get the itch to do something for myself. I was probably around 33-ish at the time. And because I had so much experience doing hair and blowouts, I was like, "I don't want to go back to the salon and cut hair and do all that." And I was like, "Maybe I should start a mobile blowout business."
--:-- Alli Webb: I knew it was expensive to get a blowout in hair salons. And it was variable pricing, which drove me crazy because it's like, "Oh, for you, it'll be $50. And for your friend with the long, thick hair, it'll be $120." You can't do that. Why? It's such a bait and switch because it says on the window it's like $45 for a haircut or blowout. And then you go in and it's actually like another $80. And then you're sitting in the chair and you have to look like the idiot who's like, "I don't want to... I can't pay another $40." I just hated that whole uncomfortableness.
--:-- Mel Robbins: There's a couple things I want to just tease out to make sure that you got because Allie has already dropped major wisdom. I want you to notice that when she was talking about working in a salon, when you talked about it, something in you lit up. You spoke faster. You were impassioned. You were energized. And that's an important thing to highlight because for so many of you that listen, that are looking for that idea or wanting to do something more, one of the big things that you write about in this book is that it's typically right in front of you. The things that you are energized by, that you would do all day long, that make you come alive, as dumb as it may sound, or as much as your family might poo-poo it—like, "What? You're going to go to beauty school?"—that's really an important piece of data when it comes to finding an idea or finding your calling.
--:-- Alli Webb: I love that you pointed that out. When we started Drybar, I was itching to do something. I was excited to get out of the house and do something for myself. But when we opened the door—I mean, even when we were in the planning phase—I loved it. I couldn't work enough.
--:-- Mel Robbins: But hold on a second. It did not start with a retail location. So I want to slow down real quick.
--:-- Alli Webb: Well, you're right. It started with the mobile business.
--:-- Mel Robbins: See, I'm right. Don't tell me it did not start with a retail business. I was like, "Listen, I know. I have the facts, woman, about your life." And I want to slow this down because your story is so accessible. You stop yourself over and over and over again. You think, "I should go to beauty school." And everyone's like, "No, no, no, no, no." So you don't do it. Then you think, "I love hair and maybe I'll do something with hair." And they're like, "No, no, no, that's not enough. It's not this." And so the ideas are all around you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: What I want you to pay attention to as you listen to Allie tell this story is how one decision at a time, instead of arguing against what she wanted, she simply was like, "Fuck it. Okay. Why don't I try it?" And so you're sitting there, you're in your thirties, you have two young kids, you are thinking, "Maybe I'll just start a mobile blow-drying business."
--:-- Alli Webb: It literally was like one day dawned on me. I was like, "I think I should do this."
--:-- Mel Robbins: Put me at the scene. Like, where did you get the idea? "I'm going to get my car and drive to people's houses and blow dry their hair for cash."
--:-- Alli Webb: Well, it's exactly what happened. I had just moved to L.A. a few years before and I met my best friend, who's still my very best friend today, when our sons were babies. We met in a breastfeeding support group and we were inseparable. We had these babies and we were stay-at-home moms and we were having the best time. And we both started to get the itch at the same time. She just had a knack for planning parties and things, so she wanted to get into the party planning business. She ended up becoming a really big wedding planner and now does something else. That's a whole other story.
--:-- Alli Webb: At the time, I was like, "Oh, that sounds fun. I'll help you with that." We started to do that. I did not really enjoy that and we were fighting and I was like, "No, this isn't it." I remember we were sitting in my Santa Monica tiny apartment, Paige and I were sitting on the floor with our babies crawling around us. And I was like, "I love you. And I love that we were starting this business together, but I don't think it's the thing for me. I think I want to start a mobile blowout business." And by the way, she had curly hair too and used to always ask me to blow out her hair. So she's like, "I think that's a great idea."
--:-- Mel Robbins: What year is this?
--:-- Alli Webb: This is 2000. And the boys were like three. So I was like, "What do you think people would pay if I came to their house?" I want to make this so people are actually going to call me. Because nobody knew me. I was brand new to L.A. So we were like maybe $35 or $40. And Paige was like, "Yeah, $20s. Easy peasy." I was like, "$20s. Easy." It's going to be a cash business. So I posted on a Yahoo group. And I said, "I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have two little boys. I'm a longtime hairstylist. I'm thinking of starting a mobile blowout business where I'll come to your house while your baby is sleeping and blow out your hair. And I'm going to only charge $35 or $40." Not a very sophisticated business plan.
--:-- Alli Webb: And sure enough, I started getting inundated with emails like, "Can you come over tomorrow?" And "Can you come over?" And I was like, "God damn, I'll be there." So I didn't actually make any money because between gas and everything, I didn't make any money. But who cares? Because it led to Drybar, right? But at the time, I was so happy still. I got a big duffel bag together. I threw all of my hair stuff in a bag. And I was like, "OK, I'll be over."
--:-- Mel Robbins: What did you do with the kids?
--:-- Alli Webb: I think one of my sons was in preschool then. Total wash money wise, but I didn't care. I was really just wanting the freedom to get out of the house for a little while and do something for myself and talk to adults. And I love doing hair. So it was a win-win-win for me, minus the money.
--:-- Alli Webb: So I start going to do women's hair. And another big key insight that I didn't realize I was learning while I was learning it was that I would usually go to these women's homes and be in their living room or kitchen, rarely in someone's personal bathroom. They didn't know me. It wasn't like I was their friend. But I was a mom, so there was a level of trust. But I would usually do their hair in the living room, so not in front of a mirror. And that's the thing about Drybar, which of course you know now, is there's not mirrors in front of the stations at Drybar. That was such a massive learning for me from the mobile business.
--:-- Alli Webb: I would go to a woman's house. She'd be sitting at her bar, at her kitchen. I'd blow dry her hair. So she wasn't micromanaging me, which as a hairstylist is awesome. Because I was like, "When I'm ready for you to see your hair, I'll tell you and you can get up and go look in a mirror." And that would happen. And then there would be this really amazing moment where she'd be like, "Oh my God, I love it." And you'd hear the squeal. She'd be so happy. She felt so good. All this confidence erupted. And I was like, "Man, this is so great." Not only do I like it as a hairstylist, that I can just do my thing and work it out and make sure it looks good, and she doesn't have the pressure of staring. Who wants to stare at themselves in a mirror for 45 minutes? As women, as humans, really, you start dissecting yourself. "I look tired. I don't like my nose. What's up with that? Why am I wearing this?" All the stuff we do, we just nitpick because we're staring at ourselves.
--:-- Alli Webb: When we started Drybar, so many learnings from my mobile business came out and that was a huge one.
--:-- Mel Robbins: How long did you do the mobile business before you were like, "There's something here"?
--:-- Alli Webb: For about a little less than a year. Because I got so busy and I was like, "I'm saying no more than I'm saying yes." Because back to the kids, I could really only be out of the house for like four hours. So I could only do maybe three or four blowouts in that time if it worked out. I was in the Palisades and Brentwood and Santa Monica, so I was running around and I couldn't do that many. And I was like, "Man, I'm saying no more. That's not good." And then I was like, "Do I bring on more stylists and send them out? But then they're going to turn into their clients. So that doesn't seem right either. And I couldn't control the experience."
--:-- Alli Webb: And that's when I went to my brother. And I was like, "I feel like I should turn my mobile business into a brick and mortar." My brother's also bald and a dude. And he was like, "What? Why can't women blow out their own hair?" And I'm like, "No. Didn't you remember growing up with me and the crazy?" But I got him on board with it. And I said, "I want to basically, instead of me going to them, them come to me. I want to open one little shop." And he was like, "Okay." He knew I was having success in my mobile business, that I was getting really busy. And I was like, "Mike, I think if the price is right and the space is beautiful and really well run—and I'd worked in hair salons, I knew enough to make it great, I felt."
--:-- Alli Webb: So when I went to Michael and I said, "I want to do this." And he was like, "Hmm." And it was so cool because it was such a level set of skills. Michael was always really good student, just naturally really book smart. And I wasn't. But now here I'm coming with this like, "I know this business and you don't. So you need to learn this part from me and I need to learn that part from you." And so that was this beautiful merge of us coming together. And I was like, "I know I need help running this business, but I also know I know how to run a salon because I'd worked at many salons as the assistant to owner. So I saw all of it—the good, the bad, the ugly, everything that happens in hair salons."
--:-- Mel Robbins: What I think is really interesting about what you're sharing is that you are describing what we often forget when we are wanting to start something. We tell ourselves, "Oh, well, I don't have this experience or I'm not the business person." But the truth is the fact that you were inside of salons and you worked for other people and you saw, as you said, the good, the bad, the ugly and everything, it helped you make decisions about what you didn't want to do. And that's a really important part of learning and of the experience that you brought to the table. And so these are great nuggets that you're sharing.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And I want to hear more about how you started, ran, and sold this insanely successful business without a college degree, without any business experience, and with little kids at home. And later in the show, you know what I really want to get into? I want to get into the messy part. How this came at a cost and what happened in your personal life as your success grew. So stay with us.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins, and I'm so thrilled that you're here with me. And I know that when you listen to this show, you are taking time for yourself and you're taking time to learn. And today you're learning from Allie Webb. She is the founder of the $100 million business success called Drybar. And we were just talking about how absolutely everything that happens when you start something is teaching you along the way. And Allie, all of the failures and the things that have happened were preparing you to be at the helm of this amazing company that you created.
--:-- Alli Webb: I really believe everything I did in my life uniquely prepared me to sit at the helm of a blow-dry empire. Unequivocally.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I mean, that is a hilarious sentence. Can I just say that? A blow dry empire. It's what Drybar is. A blow dry empire. That is incredible. Because I don't think anybody would wake up and go, "You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to create a blow dry empire."
--:-- Alli Webb: Me either. But it was like working in PR, working at hair salons. And I really did see, there was so much I loved about hair salons. And there was a lot that I didn't. I didn't like the cutthroatness of it. I didn't like the "eat what you kill" environment. I didn't like the "I don't want to wash your hair." There was a lot I didn't like about it. And I was like, "I don't want that. That's not what Drybar is going to be about. I want this happy, we all are in this together, kumbaya." Which was not what you see in hair salons.
--:-- Alli Webb: And we had so many stylists. I mean, gosh, at the height of Drybar, I mean, probably even today, there's over 5,000 stylists that work for Drybar. And there was always this sense of—I can't tell you how many stories I'd hear from stylists who would come in and be like, "Oh, my boss is doing drugs in the back and nobody's nice to me and I hate it there." Story after story after story. There's just this weird—not all, and I want to be cognizant to say not all hair salons are like that. There's a lot of really great ones. But there is a lot of stories. Not stuff that I actually experienced myself, but just stories that I heard from stylists about how they were treated. It's a hard business.
--:-- Alli Webb: For us, we wanted to make it not like that. We wanted it to be like—the way the Drybar structure was set up was that we were paying people hourly and then they would get their tips. So it wasn't a chair rental the way it typically is. And that was an intentional decision because I wanted people to feel like they were part of something. It wasn't like you're just coming in to see hairstylist Mel. You're coming in to Drybar to get a great blowout. And the big reason this thing would work is because you could sit in anybody's chair potentially and get a great blowout. It might not be the exact way that Mel does it that you love, but you'll sit in Ali's chair and you'll be like, "Oh, this isn't what I would have got, but I kind of like it."
--:-- Alli Webb: I always feel like—again, I take this hairstyle stuff very seriously. I love this. But I feel like people don't always know what they want until you show them. Far be it for me to compare us to the iPhone, but we didn't know we needed iPhones, and then we got them and we're like, "Of course we needed iPhones." It's lofty. But I think that a woman comes in and she always gets her hair blown this way. And I'm like, "Just show her. You're the hairstylist. Just show her a little something different." And then she'll be like, "Oh my God, I love it." And it happened all the time. So I'm like, it's our job as the hairstylist, the innovator, the leader in this situation to show women. And if she doesn't like it, she doesn't like it. We'll redo it. We're not cutting her hair off. It's not surgery.
--:-- Alli Webb: I felt really strongly about all of that. And it really was like—you're going to make so much fun of me. I used to say, "We're not—we're changing the world one blowout at a time." And I really felt that. The change you would see in women was unbelievable.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, I think when you feel good about how you look, there is absolute irrefutable research about how it impacts your confidence. No question.
--:-- Alli Webb: Someone did an article. I think it was Marie Claire. It was back when magazines were still popular. And it was actually a friend of mine who wrote this story. It was called "The Psychology of a Blowout." And she sat in Drybar for eight hours. And she watched the behavior of how women walked in and how they walked out. And Mel, it's astounding. You'd see the way a woman would walk in—very serious, usually a hat on, head down, business, serious. And I kid you not, there were times when women would walk out—because I was in the shop 24/7—I was like, "I didn't see that woman come in." And they're like, "Yeah, you did. She came in an hour ago." And I was like, "No, I didn't see her because I didn't recognize her." She looked so different. Her hair looked different. Her hat was off. But there was this lightness and this pep in her step. And that's when I was also like, "OK, we're not selling blowouts. We're selling happiness and confidence. We are so on to something. This is not about hair anymore." It was about the psyche of the way women were feeling. And that's why it got so massive, in my humble opinion.
--:-- Mel Robbins: One thing that I just can't underscore enough is the example that you are giving to the person listening on passion. And there's a couple things I want to point out here. First and foremost, passion I have always defined as just energy—anything that energizes you. And there is no doubt that blowouts and hair and happiness, that brings so much passion and energy into your life. You can feel it. It vibrates off you as you talk.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And here's the other thing I want to say about that. Passion is so personal because I don't give a shit about blowouts, honestly. Like I literally, there is no way I could have built this business. I can't manufacture passion into it. And so I say that because I think we're always looking for some big idea or for that person that's listening that's like, "I have the itch. I know what she's talking about. I have this itch to do something bigger, but I don't know what bigger is." I want to keep pointing you back to the example that Ali is giving us. What do you talk about all the time? What would you do that if you could just do this and your bills are taken care of, you would do this all the time? And don't tell me you'd lay on your ass on a beach and drink margaritas because that would be fun for about a week. And then you'd be like, "OK, got to scratch the itch because this is not doing anything."
--:-- Mel Robbins: But so you open this first location. Your bald brother becomes your partner. It ultimately goes on and becomes this massive business. And I would love to have you talk a little bit about some of the really hard moments before we get into the advice for someone listening around how to get started and what have you learned through this whole process.
--:-- Alli Webb: The learning is endless and it's daily, truly. It's a laundry list of mistakes that I made. Michael and I ended up personally guaranteeing that loan, which was kind of the lease. It was also in 2010. So it was the middle of a recession. And the landlord was like, "What is this? Blow it? Like what? Is it a bar? Because it looks like a bar."
--:-- Mel Robbins: Right.
--:-- Alli Webb: I realized I didn't want hairstylists to bring in their own stuff when they came into our shop. I wanted to provide all the blow dryers. I'm going to provide all the brushes. Everything you need, you don't bring any of your stuff here. And stylists were like, "What? But I like this brush." And I was like, "I hear you. But no, you're not." Some stylists were like, "God, we're really annoyed about that." And I was like, "I get it. But no, I want this place to look a certain way. I want every station to feel and look a certain way. I want you guys to know how to do the Cosmo, the Mai Tai." Because all of our hairstyles are named after drinks, which by the way, was another thing that my brother was like, "That's so cheesy. We shouldn't name the hairstyles after drinks." I was like, "Yes, we should. Because women are going to come in and they're like, 'I want a Cosmo,' which is our messy curls. And the Mai Tai was our messy, beachy look. I guarantee you women are going to love this." And they did. Women would always come in like, "I think I want the Mai Tai." I mean, without fail. It was huge. And Michael was like, "I don't think people are going to want to..." But everything was a decision.
--:-- Alli Webb: One of the big ones that I've talked about quite a bit is that if you've ever called Drybar to make an appointment, we don't have the phones inside the shops. The first day, the first week, the phones were ringing off the hook, which was amazing. I mean, great problem to have. The shop was crazy busy. And we had the phone up at the front desk. But it's loud. The music's loud, which is part of the ambience. There's flat screen TVs playing *The Devil Wears Prada*. There's blow dryers going and there's women talking. But it's fun. It's like a party. It's a club, basically, which is a controlled chaos. But it was so fun. The energy was so good. But then the phone's ringing. And so a woman who's coming in to check in or a woman who's leaving, and then there's a person on the phone. That's a trifecta that doesn't work.
--:-- Alli Webb: And I was like, "I don't want to be that business. I don't want to be like, 'Excuse me,' with the finger up, like 'Give me a second.'" I hated that. I was like, "We're not doing that." But the phone's ringing, which is good because people are trying to make appointments. And I was like, "Stop answering the phone. We'll let it go to voicemail and we'll call them back." Which is a kind of crazy decision to make when you've just opened a business. We're like, "Oh, we're not going to answer our phones." But I was like, "We can't answer our phones because what is most important here is the women who are in the shop having the experience, giving us their money."
--:-- Mel Robbins: And wanting to come back.
--:-- Alli Webb: And wanting to come back. So I was like, "Let it go to voicemail. And at the end of the night, we will call everybody back." Which was a disaster and such a pain. But what was the alternative? So then we realized we had to pull the phones out of the shop. We basically started hiring people to answer the phones outside the shops, in the quietness of their living room. Now we're dealing with this company that we have to get the phone business. We're in the call center business now, which was like, "What are we doing here?"
--:-- Alli Webb: But we had to have people answer the phones outside the shops. And then as we grew and there's 150 locations, now it was like a real call center. So we had hundreds of people on the phone because, mind you, also, you can book on an app and you can book on your computer. But 50 percent of the clientele, which is over millions, want to call on the phone, which is like... I want to call. I'm a caller. I'm not... You're not my favorite kind of person in that regard.
--:-- Mel Robbins: That's OK. I'm willing to not be your favorite person.
--:-- Alli Webb: I was like, "Please just go online." I don't want to. It's complicated. Because they're like, "I want to talk and I want to find out." But it was annoying. And it was a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation because you're like, "Hi, I want to call. And I had that girl last time and blah, blah, blah." But the girl on the phone doesn't totally know that, which wasn't great. But it was like, again, the alternative.
--:-- And anyways, it was just thing after thing after thing like that you just deal with when you're running a business. I mean, we had the first month of Drybar. We were underneath a restaurant and we're doing blowouts. It's super busy. It's popping. And I started to see this black goop come through our very white, beautiful tiles.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Black goop?
--:-- Alli Webb: Goop. I didn't know what it was. And I was like, "Oh, my God. What is that?" I'm watching it. And all of a sudden, Mel, I swear to God, it started dripping. And then it breaks through the ceiling.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And it like this... I don't know what it is. It wasn't like that. It was some sort of sewage?
--:-- Alli Webb: Some sort of sewage. That sounds pretty disgusting. Not sewage. It was like something from the restaurant. It was food.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oh, it was disgusting.
--:-- Alli Webb: Like the waste trap. It was gross. But here's the funniest part of that story: it came down right in front of the first chair. So it didn't actually hit anybody, thank God. And everyone kind of looked. The shop was completely booked solid, packed, people waiting. And people looked over at it and they're like, "Huh." And then moved their chair over. Like, "Can you keep going?" The woman who was getting her hair blown out, nobody skipped a beat. And I was freaking out because the ceiling just caved in. And I had to go figure out how to get that fixed. But I was like, "Well, let's clean it up and keep going."
--:-- It was just so crazy. There's so many stories like that. And that's really a lot of what's in the book. There was so much awesomeness. And we felt like we were on this rocket ship and this thing had taken off in front of our eyes and it was so busy. And we were like the hot club that you couldn't get into. We were just figuring it out.
--:-- I mean, we used to spend—this is embarrassing—we used to spend probably an hour a night after we closed the shop physically counting the money. And it was always wrong. And we were like, "Why can't we figure this out?" It was just so many things—
--:-- Mel Robbins: Probably because somebody was stealing from you.
--:-- Alli Webb: I know. I'm sure. That's why the books were not reconciling. We eventually went off of cash because, yeah, that's a whole other thing. I mean, you name it, we had a problem or something we had to figure out.
--:-- Mel Robbins: How long ago did you sell?
--:-- Alli Webb: In 2020, so about three years ago.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So I want to jump into some of the lessons. We've covered a lot of them: that your best idea is going to come from something that you loved as a child. "Just Start Somewhere" is another one that you talked about. "We're all imposters." We both get a lot of questions about imposter syndrome. What do you say to people when they say, "But I feel like an imposter?"
--:-- Mel Robbins: What do you mean "great"?
--:-- Alli Webb: Like, good. It means you're doing something that you haven't done before. That's awesome. I think it's funny, the whole negative connotation on imposter syndrome. It's like, "Oh, because you're stepping into a role of something that you don't know and that you're potentially not good at and you've never done before." Good for you. I think you should be excited about that. I think it should be celebrated.
--:-- I've always kind of tiptoed into most jobs I've ever had, not really knowing and figuring it out. And there's something really exciting and fun to me about that. It's funny because I like that so much in business, not so much in my personal life. I kind of want to know what's happening. But in business, I loved not knowing what was coming next and all the excitement around figuring out so many things.
--:-- I went on QVC and that was scary because you're on live TV. You can't say bad words and you can't say a lot of things. And I was so scared. I loved the feeling of like, "I'm going to figure this out and I'm going to do it." I felt like an imposter, sure. I'd never done it before. I'd never been on live TV before, but I was up for the challenge.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So the title of the book is *The Messy Truth*, though. So let's talk about the messy part. Because all this came at a very big cost.
--:-- Alli Webb: Yes, there's a lot of costs along the way.
--:-- Mel Robbins: All right, so let's talk about it.
--:-- Alli Webb: Well, gosh, where to start?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Your marriage. I'm actually serious. Let's start with your marriage. And this isn't funny. And I really don't want you to be embarrassed to talk about this, because so many people, Alli, can learn from the mistakes that you made. And I'm glad that you're willing to talk about them.
--:-- Because you know what I find really interesting about you, Alli? The fact that your superpower in business is trusting your gut. And you were so decisive with so many decisions when it came to Drybar, from the colors to no phones ringing to the stylist can't bring their tools to naming the hairstyles after drinks. It seems like in every circumstance, you just knew and you just did it. And yet, time and time again in your personal life, when you knew something wasn't right, you just ignored it. And that's what led to the mess. And the first mess that you write about is your first marriage.
--:-- And we're going to get into those messy details when we return. So stay with us.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Welcome back. It's your friend Mel, and today you are learning from Alli Webb. She is the founder of the $100 million brand Drybar, and she's released a book, and the title is *The Messy Truth*. And we're gonna get into the messy part, because what's interesting about Alli's story is that she really trusted her gut when it came to business, and she was super decisive, and she knew what she wanted. And yet, when it came to her personal life, most of the messes were the result of not trusting her gut.
--:-- So, Alli, let's start with your first marriage that ultimately ended in divorce. What happened?
--:-- Alli Webb: So I met Cam, like I said, when we were pretty young. We lived in New York City. And as I mentioned, I was pretty driven to find the husband and make the babies, which I did. And Cam's an amazing man. And we had a beautiful friendship, really, which I now, in retrospect, realize was my parents' marriage, which is crazy how you don't realize that until afterwards. My parents got divorced when they were in their 50s and turned out they didn't have a great marriage. But they were best friends. They also built a business together. And I was like, "You've got to be kidding me. This is a carbon copy." Cam and I built Drybar together along with my brother.
--:-- Mel Robbins: How was that on your marriage to be business partners?
--:-- Alli Webb: I think it was like the third kid. There was Grant, then there was Kit, and then there was Drybar. And it was this beautiful company that we built. And it was so exciting. And we were so enamored with this company, just like you are with a child. And Cam had his lane, the creative part. I had my lane, the hair and the shops. And Michael was doing the more business behind-the-scenes stuff. And we had fun. It was so fun.
--:-- So it really had nothing to do with Drybar. I think Drybar probably kept us together because I didn't have the passion I needed to have in a marriage. But I was like, "I made this decision. I'm going to stick with it. I decided to marry this man. I'm going to stay in this marriage." And I knew it wasn't right. I was like, "I don't think this is..." And I also was like—this is very TMI—but I was like, "Maybe I just don't like sex." We just didn't have that kind of relationship. And I knew it wasn't right deep down. And I just couldn't bring myself to do anything about it until I did.
--:-- But I found myself starting to inch towards the path of having an emotional affair. And I was like, "I don't want to be that person. I don't want to do that." So the writing was on the wall. Cam and I, Cam even would joke around like, "Once the kids leave, maybe we'll break up then." And I was like, "I don't know if that's the plan. Let's just do it now."
--:-- Mel Robbins: How long was it like that for you guys? Because when my husband and I worked together when my business first started, it nearly was the death of our marriage.
--:-- Alli Webb: No question.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Like, all we talked about was either the kids or the business. There was no marriage. And we are very, very good at doing things and getting through a to-do list. And there was literally no marriage in terms of he and I having our own emotional connection. And so we tried it and it was disastrous. So I am just curious, what was it like for you guys? And how long was it of just you guys were business partners and you both knew that that was the one thing, other than your two children, that was keeping this together?
--:-- Alli Webb: I mean, we knew the whole time, truly. I don't think it was the business. I can see what you're saying, but even... I mean, Cam tried to call the wedding off a month before the wedding.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Really? What was that like?
--:-- Alli Webb: Well, I was like, "Absolutely not. We are getting married. The venue's booked. My parents did it." I was like, "I can't." And now the person that I am is like, "Oh my God, of course he was right. We shouldn't have gotten married." I mean, my boys are just the greatest humans ever. And I can't... Gosh, you can't imagine they're your children. And then we built this amazing business. And I don't regret it, but we shouldn't have gotten married.
--:-- I think I was like, "I don't want to go back to the drawing board. I don't want to start dating again. I don't want to be alone again. Let's just go." It was so crazy of me. But I knew we shouldn't have gotten married either. But I really liked him. I loved him. We were best friends. All my relationships up to that point, after like six months or so, the kind of passion I thought wore off anyway. So I was like...
--:-- Mel Robbins: So wait, you guys were together, you got married, and after six months you never had sex again?
--:-- Alli Webb: We didn't never have sex, but not often.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Define "not often."
--:-- Alli Webb: I mean, just...
--:-- Mel Robbins: Like once a year?
--:-- Alli Webb: Not once a year. We did. I'm just looking for a baseline for myself. Here's the thing, though. I didn't really have much to compare it to. And this is obviously a pretty tender subject. But when I met my second husband and I was like, "Whoa, we had sex like every day, multiple times a day." And I was like, "Oh, this is what it's supposed to be like." And I was like, "This was not my first marriage." And so I was like, "Holy shit."
--:-- And I instinctively knew somewhere in my body, in my mind, that I don't think this is the way it's supposed to be with my first marriage. And so I went looking. I was on a mission. I was like, "I'm going to go figure this out. Am I asexual? Or do I just am not with the right person? What's the deal here?" And so I ended my first marriage. But three weeks later I was dating and I was experimenting.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Wait, three weeks? Hold on. Three weeks after you said "I want a divorce" or three weeks after the divorce was final?
--:-- Alli Webb: Three weeks after I said I wanted a divorce.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Very fast and furious.
--:-- Alli Webb: But I was like, I'm in this nothing-going-on marriage for a long time. I was a disaster. It was like I was a disaster. But I was like, "I want to go see what's out there." And you're allowed to experiment. And that's what I did. And I very quickly realized, I was like, "I'm not going to get married again. I'm just going to date until it wears off and then I'll do whatever." I don't know what I was thinking.
--:-- But then I did date a lot and I realized I think I want to be in a partnership. I don't think I want to just be dating. And then I met Adrian and we fell in love very fast and furious. And we were together five months before COVID hit. And then the relationship got very fast tracked. And that caused a lot of problems, which would ultimately cause the demise of that marriage, which I haven't talked about publicly until this moment, which is a little weird because I think I have some embarrassment.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So is this the first time you're talking publicly about divorcing your second husband?
--:-- Alli Webb: Because I think there's a little bit of embarrassment, if I'm being really honest. And it's funny because I know at the start of this we talked about how I don't really care that much what people think. However, I paraded my second marriage around like a trophy. We had these Instagram lives where we would talk about "Marriage Mondays" and we would have this thing "Fight for Love." And it's not that I don't believe that it was true. And I do really think we were in love. There were just things that made it—and I won't talk about—that made it just not possible. The marriage wasn't going to work.
--:-- And I jumped into it again. I jumped into this marriage that had some things in it that weren't right for me and had things in it that weren't right for him. And for me, which I can obviously only talk about my side of it, is I was like, "Oh my God, I don't have sex with this man all the time. This must be love." And so that was my guiding light. I didn't pay attention to all the other things that weren't right and didn't line up. And these other things that don't really work, they'll work themselves out.
--:-- Now I realize I got really sideswiped by this passion and love. And then we rushed into marriage and blending a family. It's not easy. It comes with a lot of complications of navigating a lot, trying to love somebody else's children, have them love yours, and how does it all fit together? It's funny now in retrospect, when I think back on it and I think about things I wish I had done differently and things I wish I had noticed. And him too, I think he would say that we should have paid more attention and closer attention to what wasn't right for both of us, which we didn't.
--:-- Mel Robbins: What did you learn from this? Or what do you wish you had done differently that you feel comfortable talking about?
--:-- Alli Webb: I wish I had stood up for myself. I wish I had more agency. I knew it wasn't right. I got so swept away. And I think I do this in relationships. I get very enmeshed. You know *Runaway Bride*, the movie? There's a famous scene where she's like, "I don't know how I like my eggs. I like my eggs the way he likes his eggs." You become so enmeshed in the men that you're with and then you lose yourself. And I really do that.
--:-- And now I feel like at least I know that. And there's this awareness that next time, next relationship, I'm going to go in with, "These are the things that are important to me. These are the non-negotiables for me." And if they aren't there, historically I'd be like, "It's okay. We'll be okay. We'll figure it out." Because I'm such a, back to business, I'm such a jump and then go figure it out. You figure it out as you go. You don't have to have all the answers, which is very true of business. And I'm not saying you have to have all the answers in a relationship. But you do have to have the same...
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, here's the thing I would point out. First of all, I think it's pretty awesome that you're willing to talk very openly about something that is just unfolding and that you're willing to reflect on your part in this. And I think the interesting thing about this is that the difference between a business is that you can jump full force into a business and let it be your identity. When you do that in a relationship, it's really hard to find yourself again and your okayness with exactly who you are and who you're not and what you've done and what you haven't and what you've been extraordinary at and what you've really fucked up and being okay with all of it.
--:-- I mean, you know, I've been on the floor the last few months. It was such a... Oh, my God. Was it worth it?
--:-- Alli Webb: Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You're still grieving.
--:-- Alli Webb: Oh, I'm sure.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You're not even done with the divorce yet.
--:-- Alli Webb: Yeah. But I already can feel this sense of getting to the other side.
--:-- Mel Robbins: If you had one piece of advice, because a lot of people jump from a relationship or a marriage right into another one and have crashed and burned. If you had one piece of advice that you learned the hard way to anyone jumping into a relationship, particularly where the new partner has kids, what's one piece of advice that you learned that you would do totally differently? Or you caution somebody, "Don't ever do this."
--:-- Alli Webb: This is advice I'm giving myself: Don't be so afraid to be alone that you're going to just end up in a relationship that isn't the right relationship for you. And don't rush into it. I've rushed into every single thing ever in my life. And I know this won't sound like much to you, but having been single for almost five months now is a long time for me. I've not been single for that long since I was 26 years old, really.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Does "single" mean alone or does "single" mean just not dating?
--:-- Alli Webb: Like not dating. And I'm inching towards that because I'm going to move slow.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Why do you need to be in a relationship? You are months out of and not even done with a divorce. You have gajillions of dollars. You have a propensity to jump into something because it's passionate. There is nothing more addictive than hot sex with a new person.
--:-- Mel Robbins: If I were your therapist, which I am not, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd be like, "Alli Webb shall never get married again."
--:-- Alli Webb: Well, that's probably true. I don't know that I'll ever get married again. And I'm like, "Why do you need a boyfriend right now?"
--:-- Mel Robbins: Get a vibrator and get your shit together.
--:-- Alli Webb: I mean, listen.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Like, literally, you are a successful, badass businesswoman who does not need a fucking guy.
--:-- Alli Webb: I'm not saying I need a boyfriend right now.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Yes, you do. Yes, you do. This tells me if you are starting to inch toward... And I'm getting heated because you should not be dating people. You cannot trust yourself. And you do not need to be in a relationship. And now I'm talking to you like a girlfriend who literally keeps doing the same shit over and over again.
--:-- Alli Webb: I hear you. And I don't know. I mean, listen, I hear you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Don't be calling me when you are like, "I did it again."
--:-- Alli Webb: I trust me, I am not jumping back into a relationship.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I don't believe you.
--:-- Alli Webb: There's no relationship on the table. There's nothing to speak of right now.
--:-- Mel Robbins: But you're having sex with people?
--:-- Alli Webb: No, I haven't had sex with anybody.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay, okay, okay.
--:-- Alli Webb: I haven't even gone on a date with anybody.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You said you were starting to talk to people.
--:-- Alli Webb: I was starting to talk to people.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Don't talk to people. You're not ready. You're not on the market. No, no. You got to do a book tour. You have to get your shit in order. You have to take care of yourself. You, in my opinion, need a year of being solo.
--:-- Alli Webb: See, I know. I mean, listen, I hear that. Everybody says that, like, "You need a year." I don't know that I totally agree with that. I'm saying I need time and I'm not going to jump back into a relationship. I'm not going to get married again. I know a lot of red flags. But I'm also going to just see what happens. I really love a partner. I really do want a partner.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You have your brother and your ex-husband as business partners.
--:-- Alli Webb: I know, but okay, I hear you. And it's so interesting because I know—
--:-- Mel Robbins: It's amazing to me how much you're pushing back on this. Because—just stop for a second. You were in a marriage that almost got called off a month beforehand. That's true. And you're admitting that you knew in your heart you were with the wrong person. And yes, yes, yes, you have two amazing kids out of it. That is absolutely true. But you knew in your heart that you shouldn't get married and you jumped into it anyway. And the fact is, I don't think you have enough time from this second divorce.
--:-- See, here's what you're doing. Everybody does this, right? You are in so much pain that you just rush past the lesson and the whole thing. And you need to stop. You need to be still. And you need to learn the lesson.
--:-- Alli Webb: I hear you. We'll see.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I want the best for you.
--:-- Alli Webb: I know. And I want the best for me, too. And I'm going to go at the pace that feels right for me. And I don't think there's a "it has to be a year, it has to be six months, it has to be five years." I'm going to see where it lands for me. I'm going to be cautiously optimistic about whatever's next.
--:-- Mel Robbins: OK, I'm nervous on your behalf. I do want to ask you because we had only met online. And a couple months ago, I got a text from you. And I just want to read it to you.
--:-- Alli Webb: Oh, God.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Because it was just a short... You probably don't even remember sending this to me because you were in a... We may have to cut this out.
--:-- Alli Webb: No, no, no. It's OK.
--:-- Mel Robbins: It's a short text. I just wanted to ask you why, what it was about. It's a very, very, very short text. I'm not going to read any of our longer texts. You texted me and said—and we had never met. Like out of the blue?
--:-- Alli Webb: Pretty much.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Like we had texted back and forth about business. And all of a sudden in May you texted me: "Dear Mel, my husband of one year just asked me for a divorce and I'm beside myself with grief. I have a feeling you might have some wisdom here." And I thought it was a very brave thing to do. To reach out in a moment like that to somebody that you hadn't met and that doesn't know the story or anything and just ask for advice. And I just was curious about that moment for you.
--:-- Alli Webb: I had watched a lot of your stuff and I felt like... I don't know. I get these hits of intuition, I guess, where I'm like, "I think I just have a feeling based on a lot of the things that I've seen that you post, that you talk about. I feel like Mel would have some really..." And you did. You had such good advice. There's a drawbridge reference that you and I had, and it stuck with me. And I just instinctively knew I had a feeling you would respond because you were really kind online and you just seem really kind in real life. And if you didn't respond, OK, no problem. And you were really gracious and responded to me and have become really helpful.
--:-- And by the way, that is a big piece of advice I give to people in the business realm: the worst they can say is no or they don't respond. No one's going to die. And so that's how I approach that: "Let me just see. I bet she's got some really great advice." And you did.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, I think sometimes it's easier to talk to people who aren't involved.
--:-- Alli Webb: That's true.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Because you don't feel the judgment and you don't feel like you have to manage how I'm going to feel about it.
--:-- Alli Webb: That's true.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Well, I like the fact that you showed up here, that you were willing to talk about the messy stuff. And it's also a cautionary tale about how it's easy to lose yourself. And I'm really, really proud of you for the work that you're doing, because you got it fucking nailed in business.
--:-- Alli Webb: Thank you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: But I'm really happy that you are now starting to own the more important piece, which is your well-being and your happiness as a whole person.
--:-- Alli Webb: Yeah, that's the goal.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Alli Webb, you're amazing.
--:-- Alli Webb: Thank you. This was amazing. Thank you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Thank you.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I really want to thank Alli Webb for showing up for you and me today, because she wasn't sure she was going to talk about what was going on in her second marriage. And here's the thing that I've noticed: it is very easy to show up and talk about the wins in your life. I mean, everybody wants to go on a podcast and explain the story behind the big business or the big success. But what I really want to applaud is the fact that she was willing to talk about something that she is processing right now. She's not on the other side of this thing. She was processing it in real time with you.
--:-- And in fact, this podcast was the very first place that she talked about it publicly. Why? Because she trusts me and she trusts you. She knows that this is not a "gotcha" podcast or some sort of celebrity sting podcast. She knows that the whole point is for us to use her experience as a way for us all to learn. Right? I mean, that's why we're here. That's why you listen. You listen to take time for yourself. You listen in order to learn things to improve your life. And so I got to give a huge shout out to Alli Webb for going there with us.
--:-- And I also want to give you a huge shout out. I mean, whether you got the inspiration that you needed to trust your instincts in business, or maybe you got the reminder that when you know deep down that a relationship isn't working, it's not right for you, you got the reminder that you need, no matter how scary it is, to listen to it. And you know that tough love that I gave to Alli? Maybe you needed to hear it today. Or maybe you got a friend who needs to hear that. And so share it with them.
--:-- And I'm taking away this: Do not rush past the lessons. Do not rush past the pain. When you're in the middle of processing a mess in your life, it is not the time to hit the accelerator. It is the time to slow down. Slow down and be still. Because it's only in slowing down and turning toward it and being still that you will learn what you need to learn. And if you don't learn what you need to learn and you race right past this, you're just going to keep on making the same messes over and over and over again.
--:-- And finally, before I forget, I want to make sure to tell you, in case nobody else does, that I love you and I believe in you. And I believe in your ability to create a better life. Now go do it. I'll see you in a few days.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. So at the very... Okay, that's our shitty first draft. Here we go. In order to get started on some big idea that you may have or some itch that you're looking to scratch... All right, let me start all over. Here we go again. Whatever that itch is, scratch it. Whatever that idea is, don't poo-poo it. Lean toward it and don't...
--:-- Mel Robbins: Are you laughing at my "poo-poo"?
--:-- Mel Robbins: Lots of farts today. Scratching, itching, pooping. Somebody get the Preparation H. Well, it's someone's life story where... Okay, I don't know. I had it really good. It was like... What did I say? All right, let me do one more to see if I can get it tighter. Okay, good enough.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know, what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher.
