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--:-- Aaron Rupar: Vice President Mike Pence will debate Senator Kamala Harris tonight. Between them will be a pair of plexiglass shields and thank heavens because there is a serious COVID outbreak at the White House, and it is spreading.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: The first case we heard about was Hope Hicks. Then there was President Trump and the First Lady. Since then, we found out about something like 30 more cases, including most recently Stephen Miller, but also Kellyanne Conway, her daughter Claudia, Chris Christie. There was RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, a few senators, the president of Notre Dame University.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany tested positive. So did a New York Times reporter who covers the White House and a military aide who had close contact with the president. It is a mess.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And I have been covering it for Vox. Aaron, let's start with President Trump. He returned to the White House on Monday. How is he doing?
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Well, it seems like in one respect, at least he's pretty much back to normal, which is that he's posting lots of unhinged tweets. There was one point on Tuesday evening where I tallied this on Twitter. I believe it was 42 tweets or retweets in a two-hour span of time.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: So, you know, he's right back up at kind of the record-setting rates of posting that we saw before his diagnosis, which I guess in a way, you know, is reassuring that at least he feels well enough to be online, for better or worse, I guess.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And unlike some tweets of his, there were a few that were pretty consequential, right? Markets are falling after President Trump announced on Twitter that he is ending all negotiations on any sort of coronavirus relief deal.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: This seems like a pretty unpopular position for Trump to stake out right before an election. You know, stimulus is broadly popular with members of the public who are out of work right now, who are struggling because of this ongoing pandemic.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: So it seems strange that right before an election, Trump would take kind of a draconian stance on that. And perhaps because there was a lot of blowback and criticism, Then later in the evening on Twitter, he said, please pass the stimulus. I'm eager to sign it.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And so there has been an incoherency there. And, you know, I saw a lot of people commenting that, wow, Trump's tweets seem extra unhinged tonight. But in fact, you know, for close observers of Trump, it kind of is, unfortunately, standard fare for him.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: So I'm not sure how much we can really read into the fact that some of these tweets are pretty off the wall and in some instances incoherent or contradicting other things he's said. Unfortunately, that's just kind of Trump's brand at this point.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And Trump returning to the White House mere days after testing positive, is there a safety concern there? I mean, is that going to make things worse?
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Well, he certainly didn't return to the White House because, you know, that was the medically prudent thing to do. I mean, I think pretty clearly it was to project an image of strength and to project an image of overcoming this virus.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: President, obviously trying to make a very strong statement of strength here. But removing his mask, albeit maybe no one in front of him, is clearly making a statement, perhaps a symbol of strength, perhaps a symbol of defiance.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And if you can believe the statement that was released yesterday by his physician, it sounds like, you know, he's doing well in the White House and they're trying to keep him away from people.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: But of course, there are still staff members there who do have to interact with him as part of their daily duties. And there have been leaks from Secret Service agents who have been unnamed to this point and from other staff at the White House, nonpolitical staff, basically, you know, expressing concern about the fact that the White House is such a hotspot right now.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And, you know, you wouldn't see these sorts of leaks, I don't think, if there weren't some real concerns. But in terms of the public-facing people, the people who are there in political roles, of course, you know, they're saying that we feel comfortable working here.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Those of us who are still here, we are taking precautions in the West Wing. This is it's a serious time. You know, they're still excited to come to work each day and and try to do the business of the American people as best they can.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Do we know yet when he first tested positive? Has some of the mystery around his contraction of COVID-19 been sort of cleared up?
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Not at all, because the White House still won't say when his last negative test was. And that is the key to kind of getting clear on the timeline here because that would establish a baseline of knowing when the infection might have occurred.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: So till we have more clarity about the timeline surrounding Trump's testing, we can't know when he was infected and how many people he may have exposed before he announced on early Friday morning last week that he had tested positive.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Do we have any idea why the White House isn't being more forthcoming about the president's COVID timeline?
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Well, there seem to be two possibilities here. And one of them has already been confirmed by reporting from Maggie Haberman at the New York Times, who last night reported that White House officials conceded that despite what the White House had said about Trump being the most tested person in America and being tested multiple times a day, that in fact, that was not the case, that he was not being tested every day before he announced his positive test last Friday.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: The second possibility is actually even worse than that. And that is that perhaps Trump had a positive test earlier than his positive test on Thursday. And for whatever reason, the White House decided not to disclose that.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Perhaps they hoped that his symptoms would merely be mild and that if they took distancing precautions, that they could keep it contained. And so both of those possible answers to the question of why the White House isn't being more forthcoming with information look really bad.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: But the mere fact that they won't be more forthcoming with information about Trump's testing timeline suggests strongly that one of those two possibilities is in fact the case.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Beyond the timeline of the president, we know that a lot of the people I mentioned at the top of the show, this sort of White House outbreak, they were at Amy Coney Barrett's nomination ceremony on Saturday.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Is the White House contact tracing that ceremony? Well, to the extent that they are, they haven't informed reporters who were there who have tested positive. They didn't inform some of the senators who were there and tested positive to the extent that they have done contact tracing.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And they do claim that they have done some. It's kind of useless when you don't loop people in who have been exposed to it. And in the case, especially of these reporters who have tested positive, they've had to kind of grapple with it on their own, go get tested and find out that they have tested positive rather than being informed at all by the White House.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: So that kind of draws into question what their commitment level is to actually doing an effective contact tracing of that event.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Staying on this cluster for a moment, two of the senators, Tom Tillis and Mike Lee, are on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is planning to confirm Amy Coney Barrett's nomination.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Is there any chance there's going to be a delay there?
--:-- Aaron Rupar: They are still going ahead as planned. It sounds like they will be held in kind of a virtual format where some of the senators, as has been the case with other hearings during the pandemic, will be basically Zoom.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: You know, we use Zoom to connect that way. There was a very telling quote that Senator Tom Cotton offered on Maria Bartiromo's Fox News show on Sunday, where he pointed out, I mean, I think this was unintentionally dark, but he said.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: There is a long and venerable tradition of ill or medically infirm senators being willed in to cast critical votes on the Senate floor, most recently Robert Byrd in 2009. Ron Johnson said he'll show up in a space suit, it sounds like. I've already told the leadership, I'll go in a moon suit.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: People can be very confident that Mitch McConnell is dedicated to holding this vote. So it seems as though, you know, even if the world is coming to an end, Republicans are dead set on getting ACB confirmed before the election.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: And there's been no indication that anything that's happened with this COVID outbreak has shaken that resolve. And that aligns with the statement President Trump gave on Monday night after he returned to the White House.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Don't let it dominate. Don't let it take over your lives. Don't let that happen. We have the greatest country in the world. We're going back. We're going back to work. We're going to be out front as your leader. I had to do that. I knew there's danger to it, but I had to do it. I stood out front. I led.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: What kind of message do you think this portrayal of COVID is sending to the American public?
--:-- Aaron Rupar: Well, I think given that, you know, 210 plus thousand Americans have died now, it's a kind of precarious and somewhat distasteful message for him in that when he frames his recovery as this success story and triumph over a disease, you know, something akin to a general on the battlefield vanquishing an enemy.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: I think that whenever you kind of talk about disease in those terms, it sort of dehumanizes people who have died because it's not so simple. So, you know, I think that also kind of explains why, especially with seniors, we've really seen Trump support a road because, you know, I don't think seniors really buy that.
--:-- Aaron Rupar: I think, you know, people want government to do what they can to protect people from diseases like this, not sort of encourage them to get it with the idea being that, you know, you should strive to be a hero like Trump who vanquishes this thing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Quick break, then we're going to talk about the two very distinct reactions people are having to the news that there's a COVID outbreak at the White House.
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--:-- Sigal Samuel: You're the host of Vox's Future Perfect podcast. We've been talking a lot about the president and nearly everyone in his orbit getting COVID-19, But we haven't really talked about the fact that this is sort of like a historical moment, that a president is affected this way during a global pandemic that he has mocked.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: And, you know, what exactly has the reaction been in the country?
--:-- Sigal Samuel: Well, it's been a mix. You did have a lot of people wishing him well, of course. Best wishes to the president of the United States, the first lady. People like Obama, Joe Biden. My prayers continue to be with the president and the first lady for their health and safety.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau sent his well wishes to the couple. I think Jake Tapper did as well. Everyone here at the lead is hoping for a full and speedy recovery for President Trump, First Lady Melania Trump.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: But then there was also everyone else who had different feelings. What did everyone else do, Seagal?
--:-- Sigal Samuel: Well... He had it coming. There were lots of people who took to Twitter or other online platforms and were borderline gleeful about the president's COVID diagnosis.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: I don't feel bad for him since his dismissal of the virus is directly responsible for the deaths of 208,000 people. I would say coronavirus, stand back and stand by. I hope he dies. I hope he fucking dies. Karma came to teach you a lesson.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: So much so that Twitter, Facebook, TikTok all had to remind their users that it's not allowed to wish for someone to die on those social media platforms.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: You're not allowed to wish people death on social media? Doesn't that happen all the time on social media? Death threats are common. 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick says he's receiving death threats.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: And of course, I get death threats all the time. It's a lot of death threats on, you know, social media.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: Yeah, so a lot of people actually made this objection, including Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Representative Rashida Tlaib, noting that a lot of people, especially women of color, routinely get death wishes on Twitter, and the platform doesn't really seem to care about that.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: So a lot of people were complaining about double standards there. I imagine it was a lot of randoms, and I certainly saw some, like, comedians basking in the news, but were there any, like, high-profile suit-and-tie types expressing this kind of serves-you-right sentiment?
--:-- Sigal Samuel: You did have people like Mary Trump, the president's own niece, tweeting, I reserve my sympathy, empathy, and despair for those who are sick and for those who have died because they were misled, lied to, or ignored. Wear a fucking mask. Hashtag vote. Damn.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: Then you had other people who were kind of expressing a similar sentiment, but a little bit differently. For example, Yolanda Pierce, the dean of Howard University's Divinity School, really just straight up refused to engage in this sort of pro forma. Yeah, I wish you well. Best wishes.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: She tweeted, I will not perform false politeness in the presence of evil. Hmm. But there is like a middle ground here, right, between we're wishing you well and, you know, I won't be polite in the presence of evil.
--:-- Sigal Samuel: Yeah. So I think there's a lot of people who are kind of feeling a little bit maybe like they're hoping Trump doesn't recover, but then they also feel guilty about that.
--:-- Michael Che: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to Weekend Update. I'm Michael Che. I'm Colin Jost.
--:-- Colin Jost: I think you, if you caught SNL's weekend update after we heard about Trump's diagnosis. This news was a lot for us to process a day before we came back on the air after four months off.
--:-- Michael Che: The comedians there seemed a little conflicted and kind of awkward like they didn really fully know how to handle this situation
--:-- Michael Che: Okay look this is weird Because a lot of people on both sides are saying there nothing funny about Trump being hospitalized with coronavirus, even though he mocked the safety precautions for the coronavirus.
--:-- Michael Che: And those people are obviously wrong. There's a lot funny about this. Maybe not from a moral standpoint, but mathematically, if you were constructing a joke.
--:-- Michael Che: And I think that's a sentiment you've been seeing in a lot of people over the past few days, where they're experiencing a lot of schadenfreude, this feeling of joy at another person's misfortune, which after we feel that, we often afterwards feel this kind of aftertaste of shame.
--:-- Michael Che: Well, you write a lot about philosophy here at Vox Sigal. How should we think about schadenfreude? Is it okay? Is it ever okay?
--:-- Michael Che: Is it okay when some guy cuts you off and then 20 minutes later you see that he got an offender bender to be like, ha, you got what was coming to you?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do I? I don't go anywhere anymore. Okay, here we go.
--:-- Michael Che: So, first of all, you had a lot of moral philosophers saying that schadenfreude is always a moral failing, period. Like you had Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher in the 19th century, saying, There is no more infallible sign of a thoroughly bad heart and profound moral worthlessness than an inclination to a sheer and undisguised malignant joy of this kind.
--:-- Michael Che: But other people thought differently. you had like the French essayist Charles Baudelaire saying, no, I think schadenfreude is rooted actually in a sense of superiority.
--:-- Michael Che: So what you're taking delight in when you see the other person suffer is the sense that you're smarter and better than them. He compares it to seeing a guy fall and slip and fall on the ice. I don't fall. I don't. I walk straight. I do. My footstep is steady and assured mine is.
--:-- Michael Che: And it makes you feel all hoity-toity because you feel like you would never slip and fall and you're super coordinated.
--:-- Michael Che: Then you had Michel de Montaigne, another philosopher, 16th century, saying, no, schadenfreude is really about our own vulnerability.
--:-- Michael Che: When you're happy because you see someone else get sick, what you're really happy about is realizing that you are safe. You're not sick. And then there's just one other philosopher I want to point out here, because he had a totally different way of understanding this. That's Rene Descartes.
--:-- Michael Che: He said, we feel hatred for the evil and joy at seeing it in the person who deserves it. This is about a sense of justice. There's a certain pleasure in seeing justice triumph.
--:-- Michael Che: So when you see someone act poorly and you experience some schadenfreude, it could be morally permissible because you're actually just happy that justice is being served.
--:-- Michael Che: And where does that leave us with Trump in particular?
--:-- Michael Che: Yeah, I think in the case of Trump, it's likely that people are feeling a mix of all those feelings that the philosophers talk about all at once.
--:-- Michael Che: So I think people are feeling the schadenfreude rooted in superiority, in their own vulnerability, maybe a little bit in malevolence too. I hope he dies. I hope he fucking dies.
--:-- Michael Che: And I think there are people who are feeling this pleasure of seeing justice served or fairness. You know, we have this president whose actions have been partly responsible for the deaths of so many people.
--:-- Michael Che: And now he himself is sick with the very virus that he downplayed. I tend a little bit more towards virtue ethics, which would say it's not a great idea to wish suffering or death on other people, not necessarily because that's going to harm them.
--:-- Michael Che: Like if I make a wish, that's not actually going to harm Trump, but it might harm me as a moral being because it might sort of debase me and potentially chip away at my capacity for empathy in the long term.
--:-- Michael Che: And I don't want to do that to myself.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sigal, thanks for the crash course in morality. Yay, moral philosophy. Sigal Samuel is one of the voices you'll hear hosting the latest season of Vox's Future Perfect podcast. It's all about the moral case against factory farmed meat.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can find it wherever you're listening to this right now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram from the rest of the team includes Noam Hassenfeld, Halima Shah, Amina Alsadi, Muj Zadi, and Will Reed.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Extra help this week from Bird Pinkerton and Cecilia Lay. Afim Shapiro is the show's engineer. Golda Arthur is the show's supervising producer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Liz Kelly Nelson is Vox's editorial director of podcasts, music from Noam and the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today Explained is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
