--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Things in Gaza have been bad for, like, forever. But they're getting so bad that the coalition of people talking about it has got to be the most far-reaching it's ever been.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: From the podcaster Theo Vaughn, that I think we're watching. Probably, like, one of the sickest things that's ever happened.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: To the children's entertainer Miss Rachel. It's sad that people try to make it controversial when you speak out for children that are facing immeasurable suffering.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: To the new pope, Pope Bob. To a former Israeli prime minister. A couple of million people living in Gaza and they say they should all starve and be demolished. This is a call for war crime.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: To even President Trump. We're going to help the people of Gaza get some food. We're going to ask if it'll make a difference on Today Explained.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Adio. Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management platform that Adio says is built for the next era of companies.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A powerful data structure adapts to your business model, sinks in all your contacts in minutes, and enriches your business with actionable data.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Adio says it also allows you to create those email sequences, those real-time reports, those powerful automations, which they claim can help you build what matters most, your company.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can go to adio.com slash todayexplained to get 15% off your first year. That's A-T-T-I-O dot com slash todayexplained.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This product has not been evaluated or approved by the FDA. This product may contain up to 0.3% THC.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: I'm Tia Goldenberg, a correspondent for the Associated Press in Jerusalem. We asked her what's going on with aid in Gaza.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Israel and the U.S. are trying to get a new aid system off the ground. Throughout the war, you've had traditional aid groups like the UN and other charities providing aid to Gazans where they are in the Gaza Strip.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And Israel, for the entirety of the war, has accused Hamas of siphoning off that aid and using it to bolster its rule in Gaza.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Hamas steals the supplies and prevents the people of Gaza from getting them. It uses these supplies to finance its terror machine, which is aimed directly at Israel and our civilians.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And this we cannot accept. Aid groups say there's been no significant diversion, but Israel's been looking for a way to get aid away from the UN and aid groups.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So what we've seen over the past couple of days is this new aid mechanism get off the ground. The linchpin of this aid mechanism is a group called the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: The so-called Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is backed by the U.S. and Israel and uses American contractors for security.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: The shadowy organization faces accusations of helping Israel fulfill its military objectives, of excluding Palestinians and of failing to adhere to humanitarian principles.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: The American company running this new scheme says that 8000 boxes of food have been handed out so far.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: But remember, the population of Gaza is 2.2 million. Now, what we've also seen over the past couple of days is the chaos that surrounds this attempt to kind of wrest aid from the traditional aid groups delivering it.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: There's video circulating online now, and it shows the moment that thousands of Palestinians flooded this distribution center in Rafah.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: There was no order. The people rushed to take something. We didn't get anything. There was shooting and we fled.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Now, this came hours after the organization's executive director said that he was resigning, even before the foundation began working.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Jake Woods' resignation comes just two months after he was asked to leave the organization.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: In a statement issued by the foundation, Wood made his reasoning clear. It is clear that it's not possible to implement this plan while also strictly adhering to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality and independence, which I will not abandon.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: The effort itself is really controversial because the UN and aid groups say they're not going to work with the GHF.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: They think that, you know, if they do, it'll violate their core humanitarian principles because Palestinians have to essentially be displaced.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: They have to move to reach these aid centers. And they don't want to be part of that.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: They see that aid is being politicized or even weaponized. The project has been controversial, seen by critics as politicizing and militarizing aid and using food distribution to kettle Palestinians into diminishingly smaller areas.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: With selective distribution used to starve out Israel's adversaries. We need all types of aid, not aid that is cherry-picked by the Israeli side that we are allowed to get in.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And what we've seen over the past few months, since March 2nd, is Israel blocking aid from entering Gaza entirely.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: That ended about a week ago when Israel decided it would let in a limited amount of aid.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And so during these few weeks, or nearly three months actually, no aid was being let into Gaza. No food, no medicine, no fuel.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And you had a situation where food experts were warning that nearly one million Palestinians barely had enough access to food.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And nearly half a million Palestinians were at the risk of possible starvation.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: I saw people running there. I decided to go to. People said it was scary. I didn't care. It was dangerous or not. I was going to go. I want to feed my children.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Just trying to get rice is a struggle for this 18-year-old. Everyone's pushing, she says. There's no flour. This is the beginning of a famine.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So the situation is incredibly dire, and it remains so, even though Israel has begun letting a limited amount of aid into Gaza.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: You're calling it a limited amount of aid. So it's by design not enough aid? I mean, I can't tell you what the designs of the Israeli government are.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Israel is accused of aid groups and world courts of using starvation as a weapon of war But Israel says that it has legitimate concerns that this aid is being used to fuel Hamas rule in Gaza
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: At the end of the day, Palestinians on the ground are the ones that are suffering and suffering dramatically.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: How are these policies around aid going over with Israelis in Israel?
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: October 7th, 2023, Hamas's attacks were a huge, huge shock for Israelis, and they're still traumatized.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: This also falls in the context of an ongoing war where there are still 58 hostages, about a third of them believed to be alive, being held in Gaza.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And so Israelis believe that soldiers are not just fighting in Gaza, they're fighting to free these hostages.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So throughout the war, it's important to note that Israeli media has also limited the type of coverage that it has shown to Israelis.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Some of the harshest images that you see in international media just don't find a place in Israeli media.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: They tend to promote the Israeli narrative that Hamas is solely to blame for what's happening to civilians in Gaza.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And so there hasn't been too much of a discussion about the humanitarian crisis in the public discourse.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: That said, there has been somewhat of a shift in recent days or weeks.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: We're seeing there's a protest movement, an anti-war protest movement, that has a very small but growing contingent of protesters who hold up pictures of Palestinian children who have been killed throughout the war.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: I want to say to the people of Gaza, we are with you. We know that you are innocent and we are fighting to end this destruction of your city and of your lives.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: We are refusing genocide, also Jewish people in Israel. We are standing beside Palestinians.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: They are going through the worst period in their history, including the Nakba in 1948, and we absolutely cannot stay silent.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: A leading opposition politician the other day made some of the harshest comments against Israel's conduct and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: You have an Israeli former general, Yer Golan, saying a sane country does not attack civilians, does not kill babies as a hobby, and does not expel civilian populations.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Which sparked an uproar and there was lots of condemnations across the political spectrum, but it also sparked a discussion about Israel's conduct and what it is doing and the toll of the war on civilians.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So, I mean, it's not a wave yet of discussion, but there is kind of sparks looking into or just beginning to discuss the humanitarian situation in Gaza among Israelis.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: In the meantime, is any of this getting Israel closer to getting back these 58 hostages, one-third of whom are believed to still be alive?
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Israel and Hamas were engaged in a ceasefire earlier this year, which Israel ended up shattering about eight weeks in.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And, you know, the ceasefire led to hostages being freed. It led to a lull in fighting.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And then after Israel resumed fighting, it decided it was going to ramp up the pressure on Hamas.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: You know, part of that tactic was to block the aid going into Gaza. And it also said it would ratchet up its offensive on the territory with the aim of defeating Hamas and freeing the hostages.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: That's been its war aims throughout. So in the past couple of weeks since this new offensive began, there's been intensification of strikes.
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--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Israel says that as part of this plan, it wants to seize all of Gaza. Our forces are capturing more and more territory, eliminating and clearing out Hamas terrorists.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: All of the Gaza Strip will be under the security control of Israel. It wants to hold on to territory. It wants to move the population of Gaza to the south.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Ultimately, we intend to have large safe zones in the south of Gaza. And the Palestinian population will move there for their own safety while we conduct combat in other zones.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And that aid plan we discussed earlier is part of this, of moving the population south.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So, I mean, it's trying all these new tactics to try to reach its war aims.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So far, it's still unclear how different this intensification of its offensive, how it'll manage to do anything different than the last nearly 20 months of fighting did.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: You know, this war has been going on for so long and Israel still has not reached its aim of dismantling Hamas and freeing the hostages.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: And in fact, an overwhelming amount of hostages who have been freed have been freed through ceasefire deals and not through military pressure that Israel is now ramping up.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: So why ramp up military pressure instead of negotiating? Is that desperation?
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Israel and Hamas stand very far apart on how they see the end of this war playing out.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Hamas says it's prepared to free all the hostages immediately for a complete Israeli withdrawal from Gaza and an end to the war.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: Israel obviously wants its hostages freed, but Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says he's not prepared to end the war unless Hamas is dismantled.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Tia Goldenberg: This war can end tomorrow. It can end if Hamas lays down its arms and returns our hostages.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Josh Keating, who covers national security and foreign policy here at Vox, joins me now.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Josh, Gaza was one of the things that Donald Trump wanted to solve as soon as he entered office. How is he talking about Gaza now?
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--:-- Josh Keating: Well, you know, in some ways, to give him credit, he didn't solve it, but there was a ceasefire in place when he took office.
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--:-- Josh Keating: This deal was developed and negotiated under my administration, but its terms will be implemented for the most part by the next administration.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: So incoming Trump's team's cooperation with the outgoing Biden's team helped secure a ceasefire in January, which lasts until March.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: The war in Gaza reignited. Israel's military says it is targeting Hamas with new airstrikes in the Gaza Strip.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Hamas says it means the ceasefire is over. Various proposals by U.S. Envoy Steve Whitcoff had been rejected by Hamas.
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--:-- Josh Keating: You know, now reportedly he's very upset by the images coming out of Gaza, the sort of pictures of malnourished children he's seeing.
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--:-- Josh Keating: And, you know, he's made several statements to the effect that he wants to see this war wrapped up quickly.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: On Gaza, we want to see if we can stop that. And Israel, we've been talking to them and we want to see if we can stop that whole situation as quickly as possible.
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--:-- Josh Keating: We're almost oddly back kind of where we were under the Biden administration, where we have all these stories coming out every few days where either Trump or senior officials speaking on background are quoted saying how frustrated they are with the Netanyahu government, how they're losing patience.
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--:-- Josh Keating: We got to get that taken care of. A lot of people are starving. A lot of people. There's a lot of bad things going on.
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--:-- Josh Keating: But the war doesn't seem to be ending. It's continuing. And it's not really clear just how much pressure the Trump administration is willing to bring to bear to get a ceasefire in place.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I guess it wasn't surprising to most people that he couldn't figure this out instantly, considering, I don't know, the history here.
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--:-- Josh Keating: But maybe more surprising is that his relationship with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has cooled down so much.
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--:-- Josh Keating: Yeah, I mean, you could basically define the Trump administration's Mideast policy in his first term as give Netanyahu what he wants.
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--:-- Josh Keating: I speak to you today as a lifelong supporter and true friend of Israel. Some of the dramatic moves included moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the disputed Golan Heights.
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--:-- Josh Keating: And, you know, what may have been the kind of crowning achievement of the Trump administration's first term foreign policy, the Abraham Accords, which are this series of deals under which several Arab countries established formal diplomatic relations with Israel for the first time.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I took a risk in doing them, and they've been an absolute bonanza for the countries that have joined.
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--:-- Josh Keating: So I think the Israelis, when Trump came in, had every reason to assume that, you know, they had their guy in the White House again, you know, after some of the frustrations they had with the Biden administration.
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--:-- Josh Keating: But putting Gaza to the side for a second, what's been really striking to me is the degree to which the Trump administration is just kind of pursuing its priorities in the Middle East without seemingly any concern over appearing to be aligned with Israel.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: It's hard to imagine any of the last few administrations doing things like having direct negotiations with Hamas to secure the release of an Israeli-American hostage.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Now, we understand that this was the result of direct four-way talks, which led to the release, again, with countries like the U.S., Qatar, Egypt, and Hamas.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: We know that the president, during his trip throughout the Middle East, will not meet with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Some say it is viewed as somewhat as a slight.
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--:-- Josh Keating: They also restarted nuclear talks with Iran perhaps willing to countenance a deal that would leave Iran with some kind of nuclear enrichment which is a deal basically comparable to the one negotiated by Barack Obama that Trump tore up a decade ago and which you know the Israelis famously hated that deal wanted it torn up
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: And then a third example is yes the U launched this bombing campaign against the Houthis, the rebels in Yemen who've been attacking shipping in the Red Sea.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: But when they agreed to stop that bombing a week ago, the deal that they reached with the Houthis basically stipulated that this group wouldn't attack American ships anymore.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: It said nothing about continuing attacks on Israel. And actually, the Houthis have continued lobbing missiles at Israel.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: And so, you know, the implicit message of that is that they basically left Israel on its own to deal with the Houthis.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: So this is stuff that's just kind of remarkable to see from an administration, from a president who's basically touted himself as the most pro-Israel U.S. president in history.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: What about the rest of the world? How are they responding to the situation in Gaza right now?
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Well, I mean, we're seeing European allies who were long reluctant to criticize Israel, kind of making their positions a lot more clear.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I mean, there was a joint statement from the leaders of France, Canada and the UK. We will not stand by while the Netanyahu government pursues these egregious actions.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: If Israel does not cease the renewed military offensive and lift its restrictions on humanitarian aid, we will take further concrete actions in response.
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--:-- Josh Keating: We oppose any attempt to expand settlements in the West Bank.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Even Germany, the government that has perhaps been, other than the US, been the staunchest supporter of Israel within the West, within NATO, has said that it no longer finds Israel's actions acceptable.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: What the Israeli army is now doing in the Gaza Strip, I no longer understand, frankly, what its objective is. To cause such suffering to the civilian population, as has increasingly been the case in recent days, can no longer be justified as a fight against Hamas terrorism.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Is it making any difference? This may also have been one factor among many that led to the resumption of humanitarian aid.
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--:-- Josh Keating: But it's a lot easier for him to brush off the pressure from these European governments who are sort of viewed as sort of implicitly anti-Israel anyway than it would be for him to brush it off coming from Trump, who's supposedly Netanyahu's guy.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: He's, you know, this is supposed to be the most pro-Israel government ever. So if they're losing Trump's backing, I think that's in a lot of ways more meaningful.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Okay, so you're saying that if Trump did the thing that Biden did actually do briefly and suspended military aid to Israel in some fashion, it could actually turn the tide here.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Trump wants to figure out a deal here, he says, at least. He's turned his back on Netanyahu a little, at least. Why not go the extra step?
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I think cutting off support for Israel would be a much more dramatic step that I have a hard time seeing this president take.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I mean, it's important to remember too that there's almost this split screen going on with how Trump approaches this issue.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: When it comes to domestic policy, I think he's sort of like followed through on this most pro-Israel president ever title.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: You know, the president has effectively tried to criminalize criticism of Israel in many respects.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: He's deported U.S. residents who've been involved in anti-Israel protests. He's punished universities.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: You know, it's funny. In some ways, Israel's almost been a domestic issue for this administration rather than a foreign policy one.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: But I think maintaining that split screen is going to be harder if you get to, you know, actually taking steps to sort of punish or restrict aid to Israel on the international stage.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: That puts the president in a very tricky situation here.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: If he is genuinely concerned about these images of starving children, where does that path lead him?
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I could see it leading to effective sort of public disengagement.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: I mean, we're seeing a sort of similar dynamic play out in the Russia-Ukraine situation where they're just kind of getting frustrated progress is not being made and they might just sort of wash their hands of the negotiating process, you know, and continue sending weapons to Israel and say it's not really our problem anymore.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Josh Keating, thanks for joining me on the show today.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Josh Keating: Thanks for having me.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today's show was produced by Avishay Artsy and Denise Guerra, edited by Jollie Myers, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Andrea Kristinsdottir, and hosted by me, Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for the show comes from Mercury. What if banking did more? Because to you, it's more than an invoice. It's your hard work becoming revenue. It's more than a wire. It's payroll for your team. It's more than a deposit. It's landing your fundraise.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks for listening to Today Explained. If you want to support the show, you can become a Vox Member at vox.com/members.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And if you have any feedback or suggestions, please fill out our survey at voxmedia.com/survey.
--:-- [Music continues to fade out]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks for listening.
