--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today, Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm Noel King.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're revisiting an episode from this summer that examines the global popularity of the John Denver classic, "Country Roads".
--:-- Noel King: That's right. And it's a story that takes us from the Appalachian Mountains to the streets of Tokyo.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, I went to see some live music in Edinburgh, Scotland late last year, and when I entered the venue, I was somehow surprised to see a seven-piece band full of dudes in kilts. Very literally Scottish, you guys. But then I was even more surprised by what they were playing.
--:-- Noel King: Everyone knows this super regionally specific slice of Americana John Denver dropped in 1971?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Then I was talking to my cousin in Sri Lanka and he said, Yeah, man, everyone knows country roads. And I was like, do they? But then the more I looked into it, the more I realized cousin was right. The Germans know these roads. The Japanese. By the time I heard the French Canadian country roads, I had to know how this happened.
--:-- Noel King: We're bringing you an encore presentation of our investigation of our country roads on Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into, don't you know? That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.
--:-- Noel King: Didn't know that. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've never met an AI agent. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.
--:-- Noel King: Support for this show comes from strawberry.me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown? Or never wanted in the first place?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying. But are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from strawberry.me help you get unstuck.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today Explained, when you want to learn more about Take Me Home Country Roads, it helps to speak to Professor Sarah Morris.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: I'm an assistant professor of English, and I'm the coordinator for undergraduate writing at West Virginia University.
--:-- Noel King: Sarah's so West Virginia, she's writing a whole book about this song.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: When RCA realized how popular the song was going to be, and it was actually shared outside of the United States first, they really started sharing it with different artists. And that caused its global popularity to move pretty quickly.
--:-- Noel King: So in the first year or two of the original release, Loretta Lynn covered it. Dark and dusty, painted on the sky. Lynn Anderson covered it. Tennessee Ernie Ford covered it. The Statler Brothers recorded it. Missed a taste of moonshine, teardrops in my eyes.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: It was distributed to all these different artists. But one of the things that I think is interesting is that there were three versions that stand out.
--:-- Noel King: So there's the original. Take me home to the place I belong. There's Olivia Newton-John's country pop version, which was distributed throughout Europe. West Virginia, Mountain Mama. And then Ray Charles' R&B cover that went to African-American markets. Take me home, country roll.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: Now put your hair together. And from those versions, you can trace different variations.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sarah says John Denver's label, RCA, basically started a game of telephone back in 1971. And we're still playing that game because this song still slaps.
--:-- Noel King: But don't take my word for it. Take Charlie Harding. Co-host of Switched on Pop and professor of music at NYU.
--:-- Charlie Harding: I gave us a host of reasons why Country Roads is such a ubiquitous banger.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: First, it follows the essential songwriting rules established by Irving Berlin. The great 20th century songwriter wrote 1,500 songs in his life, including songs like Puttin' on the Ritz, God Bless America, White Christmas.
--:-- Charlie Harding: He had nine rules. We're not going to go through all of them, but it hits on some of the most important ones. For example, the song has to have an average range that anybody can sing. Anybody can sing Country Roads. Okay, the high note, sometimes not.
--:-- Noel King: Second, the title has to be planted in the song so you can't forget it. Berlin says that songs should have heart longing, and this song is fundamentally about heart longing.
--:-- Charlie Harding: And finally, it just has to be a simple song, and Country Roads couldn't be more simple. Which leads me to the second point, which is that Country Roads contains the most fundamental, most memorable melody.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: me rey do that is the whole structure of the chorus melody me rey do three blind mice it is ingrained in our memory in fact the music theorist Heinrich Schenker called this the Ursatz melody the fundamental melody which is underlying all western music and so when we sing country roads, me, take me home, re, to the place, do, road, home, place, me, re, do.
--:-- Charlie Harding: Each of those words falling right on a downbeat on the most fundamental melody. It follows the simplest, easiest to sing melody that anybody can follow along with. It has this one high note who all the celebratory singers can go together. I belong. You don't even have to hit the high note.
--:-- Noel King: And when you sing I Belong, you are claiming your space in this song. This song is meant to be sung together in community all around the world. And it is.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: People are singing this song in Scotland, in Nashville, and all over Asia? I think it's fair to say, on any given Friday or Saturday or Sunday night, whether you're in Seoul, Manila, Tokyo, or Hanoi, there will be a drunk man or woman belting out Mount Mama at any given moment.
--:-- Noel King: If you travel across Asia, this song is pretty much ubiquitous and you'll find it wherever you go.
--:-- Jason Jung: I'm a writer based in Brooklyn. A few years ago, I wrote about this song for The Atlantic on the occasion of its 50th birthday, specifically how the song got so big in Asia.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In 2009, there were two sociologists named Grant Blank and Heidi Rupke who published a paper on the musical preferences of Chinese college students. So they went to various classrooms throughout Western China.
--:-- Jason Jung: And this would have been the early 21st century. So if you think about American songs that were popular at the time, you're probably thinking, I don't know, Kelly Clarkson had just won American Idol. Maybe you bought her debut album. Or if you're hip, maybe you like The Strokes or Britney Spears.
--:-- Noel King: But after asking these Chinese students what their favorite American song was, the answer was overwhelmingly Country Roads by John Denver.
--:-- Jason Jung: And what they found was that a lot of students had learned the song while they were learning English in high school or in middle school.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And Grant Blank and Heidi Rupke concluded that this song was also a powerful cultural symbol for these students and were associated with their ideation of America.
--:-- Jason Jung: But how did it get to be so popular in China? Seems like it was good old detente.
--:-- Noel King: So for historical context, U.S.-China relations under Mao Zedong during the 50s through the 70s were essentially unilaterally hostile.
--:-- Jason Jung: The U.S. was fighting the Cold War against the evil commies.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'll say so that all American people can hear that the only enemy of peace in the world is communism.
--:-- Noel King: And much of Mao's domestic policy was predicated on the idea that the U.S. was this bad imperialist enemy.
--:-- Jason Jung: So it wasn't until after Mao's death in 1976 when his successor Deng Xiaoping ushered in a new era of political detente.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And this shift culminated in 1979 when he became the first Chinese head of state to visit the U.S. under President Jimmy Carter.
--:-- Noel King: This house belongs to all Americans, people who are firmly dedicated to a world of friendship and peace.
--:-- Jason Jung: And Vice Premier Deng, on behalf of all Americans, I welcome you here to our house.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you look at the reception of Deng's trip to Washington, there were protesters from the right who were upset that Jimmy Carter was holding hands with the communists from the East.
--:-- Noel King: About 400 noisy demonstrators were on hand at Deng's hotel.
--:-- Jason Jung: And there were also accounts of protesters from the left who thought Deng's now a capitalist pawn and were betraying Mao's socialist vision.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But it was within this context that Deng Xiaoping came to America to visit Jimmy Carter.
--:-- Noel King: And as it's customary, when a head of state comes to visit, the entire spread, the full spread was laid out for Deng and the Chinese delegation.
--:-- Jason Jung: This included a night of festivities at the Kennedy Center where Shirley MacLaine performed, the Joffrey Ballet were there, as were the Harlem Globetrotters, obviously, and John Denver.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It is with great joy that we welcome you to our country, and it is with true love that we extend our very best wishes to you and your people on your new long march toward modernization in this century.
--:-- Noel King: If there's anything in the world that transcends politics or borders, it's probably trick shots and folksy singer-songwriters.
--:-- Jason Jung: So this trip left an impression on Dang because a few years later, he invited John Denver to be one of the first touring artists from America to visit China.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But it wasn't just detente boosting country roads in Asia. It was also the U.S. military.
--:-- Noel King: If you think about Asia's relationship with America throughout the 20th century, probably the most visible legacy of American influence were army bases.
--:-- Jason Jung: And wherever there were army bases, there was radio.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's 2200 hours exchange of gunfire in Korea. AFBN news compiled from commercial and military news agencies. Good evening, I'm Marine Sergeant Troy Finnington.
--:-- Noel King: So for millions of listeners in Japan, Korea, or the Philippines, or Vietnam, countries where American military presence were very much real, their first introduction to American pop culture would have been through Armed Forces Radio.
--:-- Jason Jung: This is the American Forces Vietnam Network, where the hits just keep on coming.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you think about the type of music that was popular during the 70s and 80s, you're probably thinking the sensuality of Marvin Gaye or the vibrant costumes of Elton John or the anti-war politics of CCR.
--:-- Noel King: But obviously, the suits at Armed Forces Radio weren't going to allow obscenity or vulgarity of any form to broadcast across the airwaves.
--:-- Jason Jung: So if you've ever watched the movie, Good morning, Vietnam! It's like how Robin Williams' character was constantly getting in trouble for getting funky with it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Good morning, Vietnam. What the heck is that supposed to mean? And who gave anyone permission to program modern music?
--:-- Noel King: So the music that did ultimately clear the airwaves were Easy Listening, Soft Rock, or Dolly Parton, or John Denver.
--:-- Jason Jung: Country Roads was innocuous, but it was also a crowd pleaser, no matter the crowd. 100%.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, I don't know anyone in my age cohort who loves John Denver. and I think it's hard to evaluate like really omnipresent fixtures in pop culture objectively if that's even possible but this song is really beautiful having listened to it for the first time in a while like this song is about wanting to go back home which is something that I think anyone can relate to and it's about mountains and trees and pretty streams
--:-- Noel King: You're reminding me of a Reddit thread I stumbled upon doing research for this episode. In raskinamerican, someone says, do you find it odd that country roads is enjoyed around the world? Got me nostalgic for a place I've never been to.
--:-- Jason Jung: And then legacy underscore user 1010 says in response, no, every country has roads. most people use them to go home. They're not wrong.
--:-- Noel King: That's the crazy thing about this song. I think that's a perfect description.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It makes me nostalgic for a place I've never been. I've never been in West Virginia. I don't plan on visiting West Virginia anytime soon, but for some reason, I can see it.
--:-- Noel King: We're going to visit West Virginia when we're back on Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Built Rewards. These days, it seems like everybody has a rewards program. You swipe your card and you get one cent on the hundred dollars. But with your rent, frequently you just pay month after month. You never get anything from it other than that roof over your head.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you like to save but also like to stay in style, Burlington is your answer. And the question you'll be asking yourself is, why go anywhere else? Burlington. Deals. Brands. Wow.
--:-- Noel King: Support for Today Explained comes from Upwork. If you run a business, you know that scaling your business requires the right expertise at the right time.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I sometimes wonder how many of you are running businesses out there. I would love to know. Please email me, noelle at king dot com.
--:-- Noel King: With Upwork, you can find specialized freelancers in IT, web development, AI, design, admin support, marketing, and more. Experts who they say are ready to help you take your business to the next level.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: With more than two decades of experience, Upwork has a simple and ambitious goal to pioneer a better way of working. Companies at every stage turn to Upwork to get things done and find more flexibility in the way they staff key projects and initiatives by accessing a global marketplace full of top talent.
--:-- Noel King: Plus, Upwork makes posting your job easy with no cost to join. You can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation.
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--:-- Noel King: That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com, Upwork.com.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, Explain is back with some fun facts. Take Me Home Country Roads was made famous by a guy named John Denver, who was born and raised as Henry John Dutchendorf Jr. in Roswell, New Mexico.
--:-- Noel King: The song was originally intended for Johnny Cash. Denver's co-writers Bill Danoff and Taffy Nyvert also wrote Afternoon Delight.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Afternoon Delight. Now, if you don't think this song is the greatest song ever, I will fight you.
--:-- Noel King: And guess what? Bill and Taffy weren't from West Virginia either. Taffy was from D.C., where she and Bill lived and wrote the song. Bill was from Massachusetts and apparently considered making the lyrics something like... Yes, I belong, Massachusetts, Boston Celtics.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, the Celtics thing is a joke, but he was serious about Massachusetts.
--:-- Noel King: I asked West Virginia University English professor Sarah Morris if it bothers West Virginians that their calling card anthem was written by three outsiders.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: They weren't totally outsiders. So it's true that Bill Danoff had never been to West Virginia, but the eastern panhandle of West Virginia is only about 60 miles from D.C., so it's not a world away.
--:-- Noel King: And West Virginia was so prominent in the cultural and political landscape of the 60s. So Kennedy campaigned really heavily in the state. The Appalachian Regional Commission was established in the 60s. All these road building and charity efforts put West Virginia in the spotlight.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: If you were living in D.C., there's no way you wouldn't have known about the state.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: John Denver, he was in a band called the Mitchell Trio from 1965 until about 1968. And they toured college campuses all over the eastern seaboard, including West Virginia.
--:-- Noel King: John Denver, the Mountain State's adopted favorite son, paid a special visit to the campus as part of the gala opening ceremonies for the new Mountaineer Field on September 6th.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So he performed at West Virginia Wesleyan College. He performed at Marshall University. In 1970, in the fall, he performed solo at Concord College's homecoming celebration.
--:-- Noel King: And then Taffy Nyvart, her voice is really interesting to me because in some ways we don't hear from her very much. But she has probably the deepest connection with the state.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: She went to college across the river from West Virginia in the northern panhandle. So she spent time in Wheeling while she was in college across the river.
--:-- Noel King: She told me that when she was in college, she'd look across the Ohio River and think of West Virginia as the motherland.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So she had kind of a deep emotional connection, if not a lifelong connection, if not the connection of a West Virginia native.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: All that being said, there are West Virginians who take issue with some of the references in the lyrics, namely these two. Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River
--:-- Noel King: Yes, I mean, geographically speaking, the Shenandoah only crosses a tiny bit of the state, and the Blue Ridge Mountains, they're present in just a tiny part of the state.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So, like, geographically, they're talking about a very small piece. So I think lots of West Virginians say, yeah, but it's not really about us.
--:-- Noel King: Except we live in this cultural landscape where West Virginians are either derided or are completely invisible. We're always making this ongoing accounting of existing.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: And that's an extreme sentiment, but it happens to all of us. Or a celebrity says something really terrible or makes a hillbilly joke. And we can say, well, we've got country roads. Like, here's evidence that we were recognized and that we were loved.
--:-- Noel King: So West Virginians use it in all these really utilitarian ways. People sing it at funerals. People sing it at weddings, at graduations, at family reunions.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: The class of 2016 sings Country Rose. I can't believe how many people have told me stories about family vacations where when they cross the state line, mom and dad wake everybody up and you sing country roads, right? It's a thing. I thought it was just my family. It's not, it's a thing.
--:-- Noel King: They sing it at protests in governmental offices. It's everywhere in the state. People decorate their houses with it. I probably have five different country roads themed t-shirts. People tattoo it on their bodies, right?
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: That it's this, it's used rhetorically in lots of different ways. But I think something really important to understand is that Country Roads speaks to West Virginians because leaving is infused into our cultural consciousness.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: From 1950 to about the year 2000, West Virginia lost nearly 800,000 people. People migrating out because there aren't jobs. The industry is by and large owned from the outside, right?
--:-- Noel King: Businesses close. We export a lot of our resources. And we continue to lose population in numbers larger than any other state. We just lost another congressional seat because of population loss.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So we're taught that we have to lead to succeed. There's no home for us here. And that if we want to stay maybe we can
--:-- Noel King: And so Country Roads really calls to that
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: I asked Sarah to tell us more about how Country Roads has been used in protests, because this is not exactly, you know, Rage Against the Machine.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She said she herself witnessed students belting the song on West Virginia University's campus in Morgantown.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So this was a speaker, as I recall, that had a religious message. And he was holding a sign. And sometimes, you know, college campuses, we get folks who come through as like itinerant preachers. And I think that's the kind of situation.
--:-- Noel King: But I think he was saying something pretty divisive. I don't know. I couldn't hear it. All I could hear was country roads.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: But I've seen this pattern of West Virginians using it in congressional offices. Like I was able to find recordings of folks using it to protest rockwool, which is an industrial plant that was being put in in the eastern part of the state.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: West Virginia, Mountain Mama, take me home, country roads.
--:-- Noel King: There was a tweet that went out some time ago that said that being arrested while singing Country Roads is peak Appalachian experience for someone who's engaging in civic discourse.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So I do think it's used for all of these different rhetorical purposes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do you think the song itself is political?
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: This idea of home that clearly strikes a chord with people no matter where they're from feels more emotional than political.
--:-- Noel King: But does this song have a politics? Oh, our emotions are tied up in politics. I mean, especially today, right? So much of our political landscape is governed by emotion rather than reason.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So when a candidate plays Country Roads at a rally, oh, we think he's on our side if you're from West Virginia.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And do our candidates play this song at rallies? Yes, yeah.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: There's a really great clip of President Trump using country roads at a speech in Charleston.
--:-- Noel King: And when the music is shut off before the song is over, the audience keeps singing. Beautiful. West Virginia.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: In the days after Trump used the song, John Denver's estate came out and said that they don't endorse any political candidate using the song.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But I don't think it's wrong. And I don't think it makes the song divisive. I think it still has those connective qualities.
--:-- Noel King: Whether we're using it or whether a politician is using it at a campaign stop or whether it's used in a beer commercial or whether it's used to sell tires or whatever, right?
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: And that's another aspect that I've been thinking about is it's used to create affiliation and a sense of belonging. And political campaigns do that. We want to associate our values with the candidate's values and playing the right song allows for that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Just the same as playing the right song helps us sell a Google Home device or whatever.
--:-- Noel King: Okay, Google, turn on the hall lights.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: Do you think this song is singing about a state in a country that maybe sometimes just doesn't exist anymore?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, I know you're saying this song can be used as a political statement because politics are emotional, but it also seems to transcend politics in that there are liberal people who love this song, and there are conservative people who love this song, and there are people who have a strong connection to West Virginia who love this song and there's people who listen to this song and want to move to West Virginia.
--:-- Noel King: It seems to just transcend all of the stereotypes or biases we might have about a certain place.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: And yet people, I don't know, people seem to want to wear their biases on their sleeve now. They want to not just vote in an election. They want to fly Trump flags and they want to fly fuck Trump flags, which was in the news recently, you know.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is the world of this song a thing of the past?
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: I would venture to say that it's a thing that never existed.
--:-- Noel King: So I think one of the things that Country Roads does is create an imaginary landscape that's flexible and can be applied to any home.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: So one of the concepts that I work with in my book is is hariath which is a it's a Welsh term that means something like homesickness but not quite it's like a deep existential longing for a place that you've never been or a place that doesn't really exist in the first place
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So I think there's this sense of imaginary landscape that taps into a deep-seated universal feeling of wanting to belong to a place and to each other.
--:-- Noel King: And that's what gives the song power, which is why we see it transformed in so many different ways, that it's not really about West Virginia, and yet West Virginians can take it up.
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: But like, West Jamaica, Mayawama Tutunamaitals can make it West Jamaica or Israel Kamakavivole can make it West Makaha West Makaha, Malkala Or there's a really great group of sisters called the Moipe Quartet who talk about Kenya Almost heaven, that is Kenya
--:-- Noel King: So it's flexible and taps into something ineffable, right? Something that's this deep human need
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: And that's what I think the power comes from
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But for West Virginians, it's different Because it calls us out by name in a way that we're not used to being called out
--:-- Professor Sarah Morris: You also heard from Jason Jung. He's got a piece in The Atlantic from a few years back titled The Song That Sold America to a Generation of Asian Immigrants.
--:-- Noel King: And also Charlie Harding. He's got a show called Switched on Pop, and they did an episode about Country Roads last year.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Our program today was produced by Victoria Chamberlain.
--:-- Noel King: We were edited by Matthew Collette, fact-checked by Laura Bullard, and mixed by Andrea Christensdachter and Patrick Boyd.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thanks to West Virginia native and death, sex, and money host Anna Sale for her counsel on this one.
--:-- Noel King: All hail Anna Sale.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is Today Explained. Thank you.
