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--:-- Host: We're ashamed that the United States has not got on the train. Train, no pun intended. The experience is really bad. All aboard! Explain it to me express. This is Explain It To Me from Vox. I'm John Flynn Hill, and today, we're taking the train. Because trains take a route that roads can't. So you can see a lot of the terrain changes, you can see the stars at night, and it's just so peaceful. Now, I grew up out west, so I didn't get familiar with trains until I was in college. And honestly, I was wowed by the fact that I could take the Amtrak from D.C. to Philly. But a lot of you aren't nearly as impressed as I was with the state of passenger trains here in the U.S. You know, 99 percent of travel, you're not going to be able to use rail in the American heartland. The U.S. is kind of lacking. There should be more stations, more train tracks and more stops, I think. So there is no train I can take to get my kids to see their grandparents. One of our listeners wanted to know why.
--:-- Host: My name's Lara. I'm from Madison, Wisconsin. I hope that you can explain it to me and get me some answers about why the U.S. doesn't do passenger rail well and what we could do to make it better. Thanks. So today, we're taking a trip to find out what went wrong with passenger rail in America, and whether there's any silver linings. Our first stop, we're heading to a time when American rail dominated.
--:-- Host: I spoke with Michael Hiltzik, a columnist at the LA Times who wrote a book called Iron Empires, Robert Barron's Railroads, and the Making of Modern America. He told me the American railroad pretty much grew alongside the nation.
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: Well, the railroads were dominant in America in a region that was very heavily populated and also was the industrial heart of the country. And that was the Northeast and into the Midwest. There was a lot of business to be done. There were a lot of passengers going on. And as a result, those regions were heavily crosshatched by rail lines starting in the mid-1800s.
--:-- Host: So we all probably remember learning about the Transcontinental Railroad back in history class. That was a huge deal at the time, right?
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: That's true. The Transcontinental Railroad, the first Transcontinental Railroad, which is the one we think about most often, that was completed with the Golden Spike at Promontory Summit, Utah, in 1869. That was a massive undertaking, and it really was transformative for the United States of America.
--:-- Host: It was an enormous event in San Francisco when the Golden Spike was driven. The church bells rang, city hall bells rang all over the state. At the time of the driving of the Golden Spike, there was a great ceremony at Promontory Summit. And the wire news services actually dispatched telegraphers to the site so that they could type out that the spike had been driven in real time.
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: So you could see how much interest there was in certainly in California and throughout the West for the building of this great line.
--:-- Host: How transformative were trains to the American landscape and the American economy as, you know, they took over all corners of the country?
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: Yeah, the American economy could simply not have developed as fast or as powerfully as it did without the railroads. And that's not just in the Northeast and in Chicago, but out to the West Coast. So it began to be very inexpensive, at least relatively inexpensive, to go from the East or from the Midwest to the West. And that really was a spur to the Western economy.
--:-- Host: In your book, you talk about how robber barons impacted the railroad industry. You know, Vanderbilt, J.P. Morgan. I imagine there was lots of drama and corruption in those early days.
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: Well, corruption was their middle name. There was a vigorous trade on the stock market for stocks and bonds of the railroads. These securities drew a lot of investors from Europe. In fact, Pierpont Morgan, the House of Morgan, really made its—it was really built on the business of brokering investments in American railroads for European clients.
--:-- Host: This sounds like something out of that show The Gilded Age. Well, The Gilded Age, the money that was made in The Gilded Age was based on the railroad business.
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: I want to connect all the major cities of America to create a continuous line from New York to Chicago and then from Chicago to California without 10 stops along the way. So it almost sounds like railroads were kind of like the big tech of the time.
--:-- Host: Oh, I think they were the big tech of the time. They were drivers of technology. And I think if you look at the big businesses of today, banking, investment banking, high tech out of Silicon Valley, those are the sorts of industries that the railroad played that role in the late 1800s and early 1900s. It was the biggest business in the United States by far.
--:-- Host: How did we start to lose our grip on passenger rail compared to our counterparts in Europe and other places?
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: Well, in the United States, it didn't really happen until we were, you know, a decade or two into the 20th century and World War I. The railroads were nationalized during World War I because the government needed their services to transport troops. So they didn't actually have a commercial presence in that period but while they were still building we began to see truck transport and sooner or later we began to see air transport these were all heavily competitive to the railroads so we began to see competition really showing its effects early in the 20th century.
--:-- Host: And that when things started to go off the rails. So the railroads began to run into financial problems. Infrastructures began to crumble. People stopped really seeing them as convenient and suitable means of transport. And so business was declining. So Amtrak and Conrail, which was the Amtrak for freight, basically, basically were necessary to consolidate what was left of the American railroad system into something that could operate profitably.
--:-- Host: OK, so a lot of our listeners have talked about trains they've taken abroad. The Shinkansen in Japan is amazing, and they have many other small trains that are wonderful to ride. Same thing in Europe. I was traveling in Europe, and I got to take a train under the ocean from London to Amsterdam. I'm wondering if you have any memorable stories about trains you've taken abroad.
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: When I lived and worked in Russia, I took the train from Moscow to Petersburg. That was a little weird. In fact, we were told that we should carry cables and padlocks with us to secure the doors of our cabin while we were making that trip, because otherwise marauders would invade our cabin and steal what we had and, you know, maybe commit violence. So it was a little scary. But we were told, you know, it's a trip that you should take once. And we did do that.
--:-- Host: Did you walk away unscathed?
--:-- Michael Hiltzik: Yeah, we walked away unscathed.
--:-- Host: All right, Michael, thanks for taking this trip with us. Happy to do it. Make way, make way. The train is approaching the station. Michael Hiltzik is the author of Iron Empires, Robber Barons, Railroads, and the Making of Modern America. You can find a link to his book in our show notes.
--:-- Host: Next stop, high speed rail. Ish. deposits, you can be eligible for free overdraft, up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals. Plus, they say you don't need to worry about monthly fees or maintenance fees. You can work on your financial goals through Chime today. You can open an account in two minutes at Chime.com slash explained. That's Chime.com slash explained. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at Out-of-network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. News and World Report 2023. Shine. Checking account required.
--:-- Host: Support for this show comes from Macy's. It's almost fall, and that means it's time to cycle your wardrobe to the cold setting. Because while everyone loves a breezy summer outfit, let's be real. Layering is even more fun. That's why Macy's Fall Fashion Guide has everything you need to piece together the perfect look for you. It's your one-stop shop for fall's latest trends and must-haves, curated by their experts. Add a statement shoe to your collection, like the calf-hair loafers from Steve Madden. Or tap into your romantic side, with flowy dresses from Cece and sheer pieces from INC. You can even throw in some textural layers for contrast, like a faux fur bomber jacket from Karl Lagerfeld Paris. Whether your old favorite sweater or coat is on its last threads, or you're just craving a new vibe to switch things up, Macy's has got you covered this season. Find the perfect layering pieces for you by exploring the Macy's Fall Fashion Style Guide. Shop in-store or online at Macy's.com.
--:-- Host: All aboard, all aboard the Explain It To Me Express. Please keep your arms and legs in the train. Yes, that means you, JQ. Hey, we're back talking high-speed rail, those trains that can go as fast as around 220 miles per hour. My commute would take me about a minute at that speed. But what's the state of high-speed rail in the U.S.? Non-existent and terrible. But there's some glimmer of hope. That's Michael Kimmelman, the editor-at-large of Headway, a team housed at the New York Times that focuses on progress.
--:-- Michael Kimmelman: And in terms of high-speed rail in the U.S., it's not really happening. High-speed rail, you know, exists all around the world, in China and in Europe and Japan, and has for decades. But the United States has consistently failed to build high-speed rail, and there's been conversation about it for a long time as well.
--:-- Host: You know, earlier in the show, we got into the history of rail in the U.S. And, you know, it used to be so innovative and so cutting edge. What happened? How did we end up falling behind like this?
--:-- Michael Kimmelman: The story is usually told that, you know, we had a great rail system. The country was connected by the transcontinental railway in the 19th century. And we gave up that advantage. And that story is true, for sure. But it also doesn't take into account the way the country has developed. The fact is that we had a lot of land and a lot of places where people could grow. Once the automobile became something that people could afford, and it wasn't just for rich people, people wanted roads. So we invested less and less in trains, and that's part of the story. But there are a lot of other reasons why we failed, too, which is that we've become a country that's extremely regulated. And that has made it very difficult to build anything big anymore. We have a million obstacles to progress and we have very few easy paths.
--:-- Host: OK, it's not here in the U.S. Then where is the best high-speed rail system? Like, who's getting this right right now?
--:-- Michael Kimmelman: Well, a bunch of people, right? I mean, I think in the time that California has said that it would build a high-speed rail between L.A. and San Francisco and done none of it, I think China has built nearly 30,000 miles of high-speed rail just in these couple of decades or less. Japan, of course, has a famous high-speed bullet train called the Shinkansen and has had that for decades. And most of Europe now, Western Europe, is connected by high-speed rail. It's perfectly normal in Europe to go to your local train station and get on a train that will take you 200 miles an hour to another city. So you don't have to go to an airport. You don't have to come from an airport. You don't have to go through security. It's a much easier, more not just convenient, but more pleasant way to travel.
--:-- Host: We were supposed to have high rail in the U What happened to that project There was a project that was supposed to take place in California Yeah there was And technically there still is though I hold your breath Yeah, back in the 80s, actually, Governor Jerry Brown in California had this idea that California could use high-speed rail. I make no bones about it. I like trains. I like high-speed trains even better. By the 90s, California had already begun to move ahead with this plan for a high-speed rail. By 1996, I think, California had a kind of plan in place, and it took them until 2008, I think, to approve a measure. I think it was called Prop 1A, which set aside about $10 billion to construct a high-speed rail, which was going to connect L.A. and San Francisco. It would take about two hours and 40 minutes directly from one to the other. And the cost estimate was around $33, $34 billion. And the completion date was 2020. 2020 has come and gone, and there's still no high-speed rail from San Francisco to L.A. Recently, the Trump administration revoked $4 billion in federal funding for the project. Overall, it's been kind of a mess. By 2018, it was clear this was never going to happen by 2020 and may never happen at all. And the cost estimates doubled, more than doubled. They would ultimately triple. And then when Newsom, Gavin Newsom, the current governor, succeeded Brown, he spoke about the fact that this was obviously not going to be possible anytime soon. And his big promise was that possibly California might have high-speed rail between Bakersfield and Merced, two cities in the Central Valley that no one had really asked for high-speed rail to travel between. And now that's pretty unlikely, too. The estimated completion date would be sometime in the 2030s, perhaps, and at a cost of well over $110 billion. So, yeah, that didn't work out.
--:-- Host: The failure of California's high-speed rail has been held up as the symbol of all kinds of political problems. It was even talked about in this book called Abundance, co-written by this guy named Ezra Klein. You may have heard of him. Gentlemen, you wrote a book about an optimistic future, about reforming America's institutions. Why delve into sci-fi? To get the future we want, we need to build and invent more of the things we need. We don't build enough homes. We don't build enough clean energy. We never managed to build high-speed rail. The California high-speed rail has been held up, definitely, as a prime example of that. And that path between L.A. and San Francisco runs through a lot of properties and a lot of jurisdictions, each one of which can put up obstacles and make complaints and say what they want. So, in general, what had been seen as a great boon suddenly becomes a boondoggle. And I think that's what's happened in California. So it's a really good example of the problem that the Abundance Agenda describes. And I think the fact that we're having this conversation may actually be an indication that the conversation is shifting now, finally, a little.
--:-- Host: So that's California. But there's another project in the U.S. that's already running. It's called Brightline, and it's a higher speed train that runs between Miami and Orlando. It's the only privately owned and operated intercity passenger rail in America. In short, they didn't have to go through a million of these approval processes, and they kind of already owned the route. And in California to Vegas, that's pretty much the plan for Brightline 2, which is to go along 15, a highway between the two cities, in the median. So there's not a lot of properties to deal with. There are not a lot of sort of obstructions. You don't have to move people out or whatever. And as a consequence, that may actually happen. And that might be, in fact, the first genuine high-speed rail in the United States. But Brightline has also been found to have a dubious safety record. An investigation from the Miami Herald and WLRN recently reported that Brightline trains have killed 182 people since they've been in operation and failed to make critical safety updates to prevent accidents. The safety record of Brightline in Florida is really troubling. Partly it's growing pains, transitioning from a freight rail to a passenger train that runs through the middle of cities. But the company bears a lot of the blame. It's clearly a crisis and a learning curve for the company and those Florida communities.
--:-- Host: Are you hopeful that one day we'll have high-speed rail that's both safe and fast? You know, even if it's pie in the sky, is it going to be like, you know, going to go see my grandkids by getting on that high-speed rail? Yeah, I have the same dream. It's going to have to happen sooner for seeing my grandkids to do that. But yes, I mean, I'm not entirely pessimistic about this. High-speed rail is something that could connect large cities, and those cities could really use it, and that will serve many, many millions of Americans.
--:-- Host: All right, Michael Kimmelman, thank you so much for explaining this to us. My pleasure. We have arrived at the station. Please remember to fetch your luggage or else it's mine.
--:-- Host: Our next stop is our final destination, where American trains are still breaking new ground. Support for Today Explained comes from Upwork. If you run a business, you know that scaling your business requires the right expertise at the right time. I sometimes wonder how many of you are running businesses out there. I would love to know. Please email me, noelle at king.com. With Upwork, you can find specialized freelancers in IT, web development, AI, design, admin support, marketing, and more experts who they say are ready to help you take your business to the next level. With more than two decades of experience, Upwork has a simple and ambitious goal to pioneer a better way of working. Companies at every stage turn to Upwork to get things done and find more flexibility in the way they staff key projects and initiatives by accessing a global marketplace full of top talent. Plus, Upwork makes posting your job easy with no cost to join. You can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. You can visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That is Upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talents ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com, Upwork.com.
--:-- Host: Why shop at Burlington? Maybe it's the deals that are new each time you drop by. Maybe it's the brand names you'll be shocked Burlington has in store. Or maybe it's the quality of the items, the amazing selection, and the newest trends. If you like to save but also like to stay in style, Burlington is your answer. And the question you'll be asking yourself is, why go anywhere else? Burlington. Deals. Brands. Wow.
--:-- Host: We all get our packages from Amazon but you know those goods have to have come into the country So they come in via our ports, and then usually it's the rail system that's picking them up. So there's very few things that a rail, particularly long-haul freight, is not involved in. That's Chris Holen. She's the executive director of the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore. The birthplace of American railroading. We are where literally the very first stone was ever laid, the first mile of commercial track. We are a 40-acre campus with eight historic buildings. It's all original B&O grounds. And we are coming up on the 200th anniversary of the American Railroad in 2027. It was first chartered, the first commercial railroad, the B&O, was chartered on February 28, 1827.
--:-- Host: This whole entire episode, we've been talking about passenger rail. Passenger rail in the U.S. doesn't have the best reputation, but there is one way where American railroads are still kind of reigning supreme. Can you talk about that a little bit?
--:-- Chris Holen: Absolutely. The freight rail is reigning supreme. I mean, we have 140,000 plus miles of rail in this country for freight. So literally one end to the other. And right now, almost 2 billion metric tons of freight cross the country each year. So when I meet people and they'll tell me, oh, I don't take the train, I always say, well, everything you own and use does. That's how prevalent it is in American life.
--:-- Host: So I think we have this real tendency to romanticize Europe. You know, the food, the health care, the trains. Like that scene in Before Sunrise where Ethan Hawke's character meets Julie Delbys. I feel like we have some kind of connection, right?
--:-- Chris Holen: Yeah, me too. Yeah, right. Well, great. So listen, here's the deal. This is what we should do. You should get off the train with me here in Vienna and come check out the town. Come on, it'll be fun.
--:-- Host: So do they have better modes of transportation, or is it more complicated than that?
--:-- Chris Holen: I think it's an issue of priority. So, you know, in the United States, we prioritize the movement of goods. So really, there can be some government investment, but it's really the railroads themselves, the private companies who invest and maintain their lines. And those lines are used for freight. Whereas in Europe, the railroads are really more government-owned and they're prioritized for passengers. So on our lines, freight gets priority, passenger second. And it's pretty much reversed in Europe.
--:-- Host: All right. So in the U.S., we tend to move our packages by freight. And there's an advantage to that. If you're going to move goods a long distance, it is the most efficient. And it's the most efficient for all aspects, and particularly environmental. I mean, you can move a ton of freight almost 500 miles on a single gallon of fuel. So there's a lot of efficiencies. There's trade-offs, too. You know, if you want something very quick, you might go with the airline industry. But if you want to look at cost, if you want to look at the environmental cost, If you want to look at moving goods efficiently, it's going to be via rail. If we didn't move it by rail, we would have so many more trucks and congestion on our roads. Think about the amount of trucks we would add back to the road if we didn't use rail.
--:-- Host: I also wanted to know where freight rail is headed. And Chris told me there's actually really big news on that front. You know, I'm sure you've probably heard that Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern announced just this week that they have reached a deal on a proposed merger to create the first, you know, transcontinental railroad, which would create, you know, over 50,000 miles of rail between Union Pacific and Norfolk Southern. They would literally be able to go from California all the way over to Georgia on one company. But it is rather exciting to see after 200 years, that we're now getting that proposal.
--:-- Host: What do you think the future of American Rail looks like? The future of American Rail, I love that question, because we are looking at the 200th anniversary in 2027. And at the museum, I'll just say we are planning an innovation hall as part of 2027, looking at the technologies that are emerging in this industry, looking at, you know, safety and speed and efficiency. And you could argue it's gone from the horse to the steam engine at 13 miles an hour, the very first steam engine, to now freight and, you know, going, you know, 70, 80, 90 miles an hour to, you know, in Japan going 300 miles an hour. So, you know, the advancements have been pretty great.
--:-- Host: Okay, so freight rail is actually pretty good here in the U.S. But what about passenger rail? Will it ever catch up to freight? The issue is going to be the constraint, the use of the tracks. You know, there's tracks only in so many places. And then if you do try to build new infrastructure, like we're watching high-speed rail trying to get permitted, you know, if you look at an area like the East Coast, it's a pretty constrained environment. So where do you put those tracks? It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. And if you did have something like high-speed rail where you could go from New York to D.C. in less than an hour, you can imagine commuting patterns changing. I live in New York but work in D.C. What does that mean for a sense of community? So I do think the transportation system is going to continue to modernize. There's so much history, and the railroad has changed American life socially, culturally, economically. It was formed only 50 years after the birth of the country. So there's almost nothing that it doesn't touch. You know, if you talk about medical, the first railway surgeons, you know, first responders and trauma surgeons really originated from this industry. So, you know, our time zones, Railroad Standard Time, you know, came into effect in 1918-ish. You know, those are our four time zones. You just think about every step of the way how it's changed the country. It really was the internet of its time.
--:-- Host: Thanks so much, Chris. Thank you. It's great to be here.
--:-- Host: Before you go, we have a series on wellness coming up, and we want to know about your relationship with fitness trackers. Whether it's a watch or a ring or something else, we want to know if you use them and how you use them. Do you find them helpful? Harmful? Give us a call at 1-800-618-8545.
--:-- Host: This episode was produced and conducted by Devin Schwartz. All aboard! It was edited by Noreen Khan, with fact-checking by Melissa Hirsch, and engineering by Patrick Boyd. I'm your host, John Flynn Hill. Explain It To Me is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. For more award-winning podcasts, visit podcast.voxmedia.com. Thank you so much for listening, and please, don't talk in the quiet car.
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--:-- Host: girl she is a mess but america is cute so there's that so you know get settle in get ready for a long ass ride and just look upon america and just be like wow you know your politics are terrible but you are so cute
