--:-- Sean Rameswaram: His eyes are laser. He's getting his policies passed. He's lowering gas prices. He's Dark Brandon. Where this Dark Brandon guy came from, ahead on Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Lasers in his eyes. When I see this image, what does it symbolize?
--:-- Matt Viser: It's Dark, Brandon, dead. It's a meme that's taken on a life of its own.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's Dark, Brandon, dead. It's Dark, Brandon, dead. It's Dark, Brandon, dead. The United States will find you. It's Dark, Brandon, dead.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And take you out. Dark, Brandon, dead. Dark, Brandon, dead. Dark, Brandon, dead. It's Dark, Brandon, dead.
--:-- Matt Viser: Support for this show comes from ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into, don't you know? That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Didn't know that. While other platforms duct tape tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business.
--:-- Matt Viser: And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most. I've never met an AI agent.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at servicenow.com.
--:-- Matt Viser: Support for this show comes from strawberry.me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown? Or never wanted in the first place?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from strawberry.me help you get unstuck.
--:-- Matt Viser: Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Explained. Matt Visor covers the White House for The Washington Post, so we called him up to talk about a meme.
--:-- Matt Visor: Correct. I can't say that I've seen that many memes of Joe Biden covering him for the past few years, but now he is known as Dark Brandon in some of these memes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And for those of our listening audience who do not spend a ton of time online, how do you spot a Dark Brandon meme? How do you know you got the genuine article?
--:-- Matt Visor: So a lot of times there are lasers coming out of Joe Biden's eyes. Sometimes his pupils are covered up by bright lights. There are others where, you know, he's bearded or he has an eye patch. Think kind of Marvel Comics style.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Joe Biden kind of seeming as this all-powerful figure familiar with the dark arts. And what's it all supposed to mean? Is there some greater meaning here?
--:-- Matt Visor: Yeah, I mean, it is in part supposed to sort of cast him as this all-knowing, all-powerful figure who's able to do things in a way that he, quite frankly, has not been part of his image as president.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Gas prices hitting another all-time high today. Just 33% of Americans approve of the president's handling of the economy. So it's kind of trying to tap into this idea of a swaggering figure who's able to bend politics at his will, to smite foreign adversaries at his will.
--:-- Matt Visor: Gas prices are dropping every day, and he done blowed up one of the world's top terrorists. The internet has taken notice. That's at least what it's trying to tap into, which as a political figure, it's not always been, you know, sort of his brand, these types of images or these types of characterizations.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, it feels a little far-fetched because Joe Biden just seems like such a gaffe-prone granddaddy. Where did this come from?
--:-- Matt Visor: So there's really sort of two strands to it. Some of the illustrations have its origins in a Chinese illustrator, but sort of the true origins date a little bit after that to a rally a year or so ago in October of 2021 in Alabama at the Talladega Super Speedway.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh my God, Dad, we did it, let's go! Where there was a race and there was a driver whose first name is Brandon and who was being interviewed after the race by a reporter.
--:-- Matt Visor: Oh my God, this is just everything we've hoped and dreamed for. And the crowd was chanting a derogatory message about Joe Biden, but the reporter thought that they were chanting Let's go, Brandon.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so she asked him on live television about this chant of Let's Go Brandon, which was not what the crowd was chanting. But it became kind of a theme among Trump supporters in particular, who then adopted the phrase Let's Go Brandon as a shorthand for an explicit message at Joe Biden.
--:-- Matt Visor: If you look at what's going on with some of the big corporations with their woke agenda, when you look at the Biden, the Brandon administration in terms of what they're doing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So that sort of took on a life of its own as sort of Let's Go Brandon as a chant that began to be embraced by Trump supporters.
--:-- Matt Visor: But we would see them, you know, covering Joe Biden in the motorcade. There were signs of people holding up Let's Go Brandon, you know, directed at Joe Biden himself.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In Rehoboth, where Biden goes to vacation, at the boardwalk, there's T-shirts that say Let's Go Brandon. So it began to really be embraced and signify sort of a vitriolic sentiment directed at Joe Biden.
--:-- Matt Visor: So that's where the Brandon aspect of the Dark Brandon memes come from.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: OK, so let's go. Brandon is thriving in the conservative space. And then at some point, liberals pick up on this Dark Brandon thing to make it supportive of the president. Somewhat, although initially liberals are picking it up, not altogether supportive.
--:-- Matt Visor: They're picking it up in a way to say, like, we wish that Joe Biden were strong. We wish that he had lasers coming out of his eyes and he could smite his enemies and overpower Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema and these Democrats who were blocking his agenda.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so it was kind of meant like not necessarily as a compliment. It was meant as like reimagining you know the Democratic president as someone who could actually do things and could actually get things done.
--:-- Matt Viser: Let's remind people what's going on with Biden policy-wise as the let's go Brandon meme is gaining more circulation.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So when let's go Brandon starts, Biden is at one of the lower points of his presidency. The Afghanistan withdrawal had happened in August. There are scenes of panic and pandemonium at Kabul airport today.
--:-- Matt Visor: Legislation was stalling. Democrats were infighting. This is a no. And Republicans are finding some success at turning Biden, who had for much of his political career was not necessarily an offensive figure. He was not somebody that engendered lots of emotion, either for or against.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But let's go Brandon seems to indicate a turn, particularly for Trump supporters, where there was growing animosity and even hatred toward the president.
--:-- Matt Viser: That seemed to embody a shift and really put a weight on his approval ratings that he still has not fully recovered from.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And if I'm tracking this right, that's followed by some liberals starting to trade these dark Brandon memes almost in a self-effacing way where, oh, we wish our guy could be this badass and not just this sort of fumbling president.
--:-- Matt Viser: And then that's followed by some actual Biden accomplishments. And then the dark Brandon meme becomes more genuine.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Recently, he's had some success. Biden is experiencing the most successful stretch probably of his presidency over the last few weeks.
--:-- Matt Visor: There's a legislation that was just passed called the Inflation Reduction Act. Democrats and President Joe Biden scoring a big win.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The sweeping bill targets health care, energy and the climate crisis. Inflation numbers are holding steady. Gas prices are going down.
--:-- Matt Viser: But the area where the dark brand and imagery really gains traction is after the killing of al-Qaeda leader al-Zuhari, who was killed by a drone strike in Afghanistan.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, Zawiri was bin Laden's leader. He was with him all the whole time. He was his number two man as deputy at the time the terrorist attack 9-11.
--:-- Matt Viser: He was deeply involved in the planning of 9-11. One of the most responsible for the attacks that murdered 2,977 people on American soil.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For his supporters, like showed him as being able to authorize a killing in a foreign land and killing a foreign adversary as somebody who is powerful.
--:-- Matt Viser: And that gets into sort of the comic book style imagery of some of these memes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We make it clear again tonight that no matter how long it takes, no matter where you hide, if you are a threat to our people, the United States will find you and take you out.
--:-- Matt Viser: You know, there's sort of been week after week more positive news for Biden, which has coincided with the sort of Dark Brandon swagger that the White House is adopting.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And speaking of the White House, it gets to the point where White House staffers are actually tweeting Dark Brandon memes themselves, right?
--:-- Matt Viser: Yeah. And from their official White House accounts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Usually these accounts are touting jobs figures or the latest priorities. You're not used to seeing from official White House accounts, you know, images of the president of the United States with lasers coming out of his eyes.
--:-- Matt Viser: But that's kind of what they're now adopting, kind of indicating the turn in fortunes that they themselves felt, because for months it's been pretty dismal at the White House.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They haven't had a lot to sort of crow about. And in this case, they were sort of sending out these images from their official accounts, in part so that these go into the official archives of President Biden.
--:-- Matt Viser: I don't want to rain on the parade or anything here, but does any part of this feel a little, I don't know, Trumpy?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah. And that's honestly like you're familiar with seeing Trump like this. Trump himself, you know, from his POTUS account would tweet the images of him as kind of a WWE figure.
--:-- Matt Viser: And that's what's sort of interesting here where Biden has not had that. Like he's not been like a digital media phenomenon at all during his career and during his campaign.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In fact, his campaign sort of took pride in ignoring Twitter and the Twitter conversation.
--:-- Matt Viser: This is totally new for Biden to have these images or to be cast as something else.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Biden fan fiction has not been part of Biden lore in the past. It's been the aviators, the ice cream. The guy washing his Trans Am shirtless in the driveway.
--:-- Matt Viser: Yeah, Onion style.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Vice President Joe Biden has made an announcement that he will be releasing his Secret Service detail and replacing them with a squad of sexy female bodyguards.
--:-- Matt Visor: Or even Saturday Night Live when they parody him, it's like, you know, just a guy who's smiling. You know, they have his teeth, you know, bright white teeth.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I understand Putin. I understand war. But there's one thing I don't understand. Computer.
--:-- Matt Viser: So it's not been a part of his lore to have people drawing him and illustrating him in these settings or putting him in a movie poster.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I guess it's inarguably a boon to him on places like Twitter. But unfortunately, most Americans aren't hanging out there.
--:-- Matt Viser: Does this actually bode well for his, I don't know, reelection prospects, dare I say?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It depends. I mean, it does show like a passion for Biden that he's often lacked, having people sort of interested in having him in memes.
--:-- Matt Viser: On the other hand, like, does this cut against who he actually is? The day that we wrote the article, like he also struggled to put his jacket on outside of a helicopter and Jill Biden, the first lady, had to help.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's still like kind of a figure who can struggle. You know, he's still the gaffe-prone figure that we've always known.
--:-- Matt Viser: And you can see it's just that there is a new sort of element. And I think what could change his fortunes potentially is what this represents.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It does represent Biden being more successful and having a good few weeks. If that lasts and changes people's perceptions, it could matter.
--:-- Matt Viser: But I don't know that the dark brand and memes themselves would sort of change the way somebody going to vote.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for today's show comes from Adio. What is Adio?
--:-- Matt Viser: Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management system built specifically for the next era of companies.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They say it's extremely powerful, adapts to your unique data structures and scales with any business model.
--:-- Matt Viser: According to Adio, Adio takes less than a minute to set up. And within seconds, you will have your email and calendars synced.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You'll see all your relationships in a fully fledged platform, they say, all enriched with that actionable data.
--:-- Matt Viser: And they say you can build AI-powered automations and use its research agent to tackle some of your most complex processes to seize so that you can focus on what matters, building your company.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can join industry leaders such as Flatfile, Replicate, Modal and so much more. You can go to adio.com slash today explained to get 15% off your first year.
--:-- Matt Viser: That's A-T-T-I-O dot com slash today explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from Macy's. It's almost fall and that means it's time to cycle your wardrobe to the cold setting.
--:-- Matt Viser: Because while everyone loves a breezy summer outfit, let's be real. Layering is even more fun.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's why Macy's Fall Fashion Guide has everything you need to piece together the perfect look for you.
--:-- Matt Viser: It's your one-stop shop for fall's latest trends and must-haves, curated by their experts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Add a statement shoe to your collection, like the calf-hair loafers from Steve Madden.
--:-- Matt Viser: Or tap into your romantic side with flowy dresses from Cece and sheer pieces from INC.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can even throw in some textural layers for contrast, like a faux fur bomber jacket from Karl Lagerfeld Paris.
--:-- Matt Viser: Whether your old favorite sweater or coat is on its last threads, or you're just craving a new vibe to switch things up, Macy's has got you covered this season.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Find the perfect layering pieces for you by exploring the Macy's Fall Fashion Style Guide.
--:-- Matt Viser: Shop in-store or online at Macy's.com.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Let's go, Brandon! Today Explained, we're still here with Matt Visor from The Washington Post.
--:-- Matt Visor: Matt, Joe Biden's having a moment. He's had a series of consecutive wins.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But it seems like there's always this lingering question in the background as to whether or not he should run again in 2024.
--:-- Matt Visor: Why can he not beat that question?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, I mean, I think it's still lingering doubts within his party.
--:-- Matt Visor: And part of this is an age factor. He will turn 80 years old in November.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So he will be asking voters to reelect him at 82.
--:-- Matt Visor: He already is the oldest president in American history, but also because he was struggling to get things done.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So the question now is whether people will sort of rally behind him now that he's had these successes.
--:-- Matt Visor: But it's kind of an open question heading into 2024 for sure.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do we have any idea how much of the Democratic Party wants Joe Biden to step aside in 2024?
--:-- Matt Visor: So there was a poll done by The New York Times a month or so ago where it was pretty striking.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, there was two-thirds of the party sort of looking for somebody else.
--:-- Matt Viser: They were not fully behind him, which was a striking figure given that he is the standard bearer for the Democratic Party and that people were looking elsewhere, you know, were hoping that somebody else might run.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The thing is that nobody has emerged. So I think that that's also a question is whether anybody would actually challenge Biden or whether they're looking for him to first step aside before somebody else would run.
--:-- Matt Viser: And those are two very different things and would play out in different ways.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What were the reasons people gave for wanting someone else to potentially run in Biden's place?
--:-- Matt Visor: It was a lot of age and it was a lot of, he's not getting things done. You know, he's not delivering on some of the promises that he ran in 2020.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Community college, they should be free in my view. And so there was a feeling that somebody else would be better able to push forward on Democratic priorities.
--:-- Matt Visor: But Trump, you know, like so much of our politics, still looms very large over this.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I think that particularly among Biden allies, there's a feeling that if Trump runs again, it strengthens his hand because he effectively argued in the 2020 campaign that he was best positioned to take on Donald Trump.
--:-- Matt Visor: I'm going to beat this man like a drum. And there was a lot of skepticism over that in the primary because there were the same factors, that he was old, he was out of touch with the party, but he did win the primary.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then he proved correct in his assessment that he was able to beat Donald Trump.
--:-- Matt Visor: For his allies, if Trump is running again, that strengthens their hand in arguing to skeptics within their party that, you know, Biden is the best positioned to take on Trump.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If Trump's not running, then I think it gets a little bit dicier for his side to make those arguments.
--:-- Matt Visor: If he's running against a Ron DeSantis or somebody who's kind of a young Republican, it heightens the questions of age.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So I don't know if the age factor would play as much as it would if Trump is in the contest.
--:-- Matt Viser: I make this pledge to you today, I will never, ever ride a bicycle.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And because this is something that's sort of in the water and part of the Democratic conversation right now, there are some hints as to who might be offered as a replacement in the 2024 race.
--:-- Matt Viser: Is that right? I mean, yeah, there are discussions, as there often are.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it's kind of striking, actually, because, you know, Kamala Harris is the vice president.
--:-- Matt Visor: We did it. We did it, Joe. In some scenarios would put to rest questions of who's next.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It would be obvious the sitting vice president would be next, but that's not necessarily the case.
--:-- Matt Viser: Her approval rating numbers are tied to Joe Biden's. And so there probably would be a contested primary.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It would not be as if Kamala Harris were anointed as the next Democratic nominee.
--:-- Matt Viser: There would be people like Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I can't even tell you the number of spaces, venues and scenarios where I've been protested.
--:-- Matt Viser: There's a lot of governors out there who've been making waves. Gavin Newsom in California.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's Independence Day. So let's talk about what's going on in America. Freedom is under attack in your state.
--:-- Matt Viser: J.B. Pritzker in Illinois. The people know that there's a big difference between people like us who are getting things done for working families and people like the Republicans who are extremists.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And making noise enough to where people were sort of wondering whether they would actually challenge Joe Biden in a primary Both say they would not that they would support Biden were he to run again.
--:-- Matt Viser: Then Pritzker made a trip to New Hampshire which raised a lot of eyebrows.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren. We have reached the culmination of what Republicans have been fighting for, angling for, for decades now.
--:-- Matt Viser: And we are going to fight back.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, there's a whole host of people, I think, who would potentially run.
--:-- Matt Viser: And even if Joe Biden does run again, which I believe he says he will, right?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, Biden and all those around him are sort of forecasting that he is likely to run.
--:-- Matt Viser: They're sort of looking at the timeline of when Obama announced that he was running for reelection, which would put him in April of next year.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So he's trying to get through the midterm cycle, keep the focus on candidates who are running in the midterms before making an announcement and making an official sometime in the spring of next year.
--:-- Matt Viser: All signs are pointing that direction.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Biden historically has dragged this stuff out. No final decision has been made at the moment, but all signs are pointing to him running for re-election.
--:-- Matt Viser: But even if he does run for re-election, Democrats could still challenge him, right? There's precedent for that?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, usually the incumbent has the major advantage within their party, but the closest parallel is probably 1980 when Ted Kennedy challenged Jimmy Carter, who was the sitting president.
--:-- Matt Viser: And it seems to me that the Democrats are going to be reluctant to nominate a candidate for the presidency that is unwilling to defend his record.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: By some accounts weakened Carter to the point where he was ultimately defeated by Ronald Reagan.
--:-- Matt Viser: Ironically, Joe Biden was approached at the time, then a young Senator Joe Biden.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The youngest new face in the U.S. Senate next year will be that of Democrat Joseph Biden of Delaware.
--:-- Matt Viser: Was approached as somebody who could be a conciliatory candidate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy bruised themselves so badly in the primary, the party could turn to a young Joe Biden.
--:-- Matt Viser: The same guy. The same figure that we have now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That didn't end up happening.
--:-- Matt Viser: Biden didn't feel like he was ready to run.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But yeah, I mean, there is precedent for that within the Democratic Party of having a challenge to an incumbent president who is seen as weak and ineffective, it could happen again.
--:-- Matt Viser: Joe Biden has seen it happen before and actually been a part of it happening.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Can we assume that the midterms and the results of said midterms will be a major barometer of the likelihood of Biden running again?
--:-- Matt Viser: It will be a major test for a lot of the arguments that Biden is making for him running.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: People will have to run on Biden's agenda. It'll be a test for how animated Democrats are over the overturning of Roe v. Wade.
--:-- Matt Viser: And it's also, quite frankly, a test for Biden's strength within the party.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do candidates want him to come into their districts or into their states and appear with them?
--:-- Matt Viser: It's been sort of a theme throughout his career where he's prided himself on being an ally and an asset for his party.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is that the same this time around? Or is he seen as a weight that nobody wants to be seen with so that they don't get dragged down with his approval rating numbers?
--:-- Matt Viser: And how does that impact Democrats and how they feel about Biden and a potential Biden against Trump rematch in 2024?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I can tell you how I feel about it. Exhausted.
--:-- Matt Viser: Yeah. I think, well, if the Dark Brandon meme teaches us anything, it seems to be that, you know, political fortunes can change pretty quickly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A few months ago, it seemed like all Brandon could do was lose. And now it seems like he's on this winning streak that no one saw coming, including his staff in the White House and and senators in Congress.
--:-- Matt Viser: Is it is it just far too early to be thinking about who should run in 2024?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Even if it's early, it doesn't stop people from talking about it.
--:-- Matt Viser: Even, you know, sort of top people within the party or if you're a potential candidate scheming and thinking about who might donate to your campaign.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But yeah, I mean, it is a reminder of how quickly things in politics do change and, you know, how different things might look a few weeks or a few months from now, given what we know at the moment.
--:-- Matt Viser: Things do change quite a bit, but I think the midterms are kind of a good barometer. They're sort of the next test.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it's a moment for the party and the country to take stock of sort of where it's at. And then you can sort of reassess.
--:-- Matt Viser: And it's the first time voters will be able to have their say. An actual election sort of gives you a true test of where things are.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You think if Joe Biden gets shellacked in the midterms, the dark Brandon meme dies or does it live on?
--:-- Matt Viser: I mean, some people have already suggested that maybe it dies when U.S. senators are tweeting about memes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Like then that's the effective death of the meme. You know, it's no longer something that's like cool and hip online if a U.S. senator is tweeting about it.
--:-- Matt Viser: Even explaining back to Let's Go Brandon to where we are now with Dark Brandon, like it gets kind of complicated.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And who knows what other twists Brandon has ahead of him.
--:-- Matt Viser: Matt Visor, Washington Post.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Rameswaram. Today Explained. Our show was fact-checked by Laura Bullard, engineered by Paul Robert Mounsey, edited by Matthew Collette, and produced by Miles Bryan and John Ahrens, who wrote our Dark Brandon theme.
--:-- Matt Viser: It's dark, brown, dead. It's dark, brown, dead. Dark, brown, dead. Dark, brown, dead. Dark, brown, dead. It's dark, brown, dead.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for the show comes from Charles Schwab. At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs.
--:-- Matt Viser: That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can invest and trade on your own. Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs.
--:-- Matt Viser: With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Visit schwab.com to learn more.
