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--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Support for Today Explained comes from BetterHelp. Let me tell you a true story. Last weekend, I got an email from a listener who wanted to discuss their problems with me. And I said, look, I don't think that this is about me personally. At least I hope it's not. Why don't you try BetterHelp.com slash Explained? Absolute truth. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. The one is not me, guys. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash explain. That's BetterHelp.com slash explained.
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--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Not all journalism is the same. Take The Guardian. Our coverage has something unique, fierce independence. Nobody owns us or tells us what we can and can't say, So we're free to report the whole picture. We connect what's happening in Washington to the rest of the globe, expose corruption wherever we find it, and give fresh perspective on everything from wellness and soccer to culture, the climate and more. Read, watch and listen to The Guardian for free at theguardian.com.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Some people say things never change in Washington, but last night something sort of changed. Ellen Nelson, you cover Washington for Vox. What changed last night?
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Yeah, so Senate Democrats got some wonky procedural news that actually has some pretty big implications for President Joe Biden's agenda.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Okay, before we talk about what changed and what the news is, let's just talk about who changed something or who made the news? Who was it?
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Sure. This is Senate parliamentarian Elizabeth McDonough. She is basically the Senate's in-house rules expert who interprets hundreds, if not thousands of Senate rules. I don't know how many Senate rules there are, but there are a lot. So she is the person who interprets the rules.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And just as a reminder, because we've talked about Liz before. Can I call her Liz? Do you know? I don't. I'm not on a first-name basis with her.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Hi. Today Explained producer Will Reed here. I checked, and people do call her Liz.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So we've covered Liz before on this show, and the funny thing about her is that unelected, yeah?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Elizabeth McDonough began working in the parliamentarian's office as an assistant parliamentarian. And Elizabeth McDonough is the Senate's first woman parliamentarian and possibly the most praised Senate parliamentarian ever.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Democratic leader Harry Reid promoted her to parliamentarian in 2012. And Mitch McConnell has praised her fairness and judgment, calling her a brilliant lawyer.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And the reason we've talked about her on the show before is because she came up a bunch a few weeks ago when Congress was trying to figure out whether it could raise the federal minimum wage to $15 an hour. through budget reconciliation. The House is due to vote today on the $1.9 trillion plan to address the economic impact of the pandemic. But the official in charge of Senate rules says that raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour should be removed from the bill.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: So ultimately, Democrats are going to try to put a bunch of things in budget reconciliation bills, but she's kind of the decider who gets to say this can stay in, this can't stay in.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Okay, and what did the decider decide this time?
--:-- Ellen Nelson: She basically decided that the technical language is she advised that a revised budget resolution may contain budget reconciliation instructions.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So that is a confusing sentence. She decided that a revised budget resolution can feature some budget reconciliation. May contain budget reconciliation instructions. Basically, what that means in non-Senate speaker speak is that Democrats can basically go in and amend a fiscal year 2021 budget bill that they already passed.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: This was the budget bill that the COVID-19 relief plan was in. That was the American Rescue Plan?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Yes.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: So essentially, that bill has already been passed. It's been signed into law. But what she ruled is that they can go in and amend that bill, essentially.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): What this means broadly is that Democrats have potentially more chances than they did at passing more budget resolution bills And the reason that is important is because they can get certain big priorities passed with a simple majority to 51 votes, meaning that they don't need Republican votes.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: So just to make sure I understand how the Senate works here for a second. Our pal, the Senate parliamentarian, Liz, let's call her. She went in and said that the Democrats can amend something they've already done and thus gave them another opportunity to do something with their slimmest of majorities in the Senate. Is that right?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Yes, that is correct.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Why do they need to amend something they've already done to get something new done? Why not just do the new thing?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): They can do the new thing. They probably will do the new thing. They will pass another, you know, passing another budget resolution for the fiscal year for 2022 was already part of the plan.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: But they only had a limited number of times they could do this. It was sort of, you know, people had essentially been thinking that they could only do this a total of two times and that they had already used up one of those times.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And essentially, amending a budget resolution that has already been passed gives them up to three chances or, you know, potentially potentially more, depending on what she, you know, if she gives them a hard stop after three.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: So the idea is that Democrats can go back in to the one that was already passed, amend it to add, say, you know, President Biden's infrastructure plan that was just introduced or elements of that, and then go and pass another budget resolution for fiscal year 2022.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): It It essentially just gives them chances to do more stuff with more budget reconciliation bills.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: And in theory, if they do the second budget reconciliation, which was for 2022, is that right?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Yes.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: They could then amend that and have like a fourth big thing. Is that right?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Yeah. I mean, that's the thing that we still don't totally know. And there's still a lot of questions that we have.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: And it's worth noting, you know, I have not seen the parliamentarians like exact argument yet. We just got a statement from Schumer's office last night basically saying that she agreed with his office's argument of what, you know, this Section 304 said about amending budget resolutions.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So, yeah, I mean, in theory, you could amend a few budget resolutions. But I also think that, you know, I'm sure Republicans are going to be arguing there needs to be some mechanism in place so that Democrats, you know, essentially don't get, you know, unlimited wishes or unlimited budget reconciliation bills.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: I think that there will probably be some parameters around this that we have yet to see.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And you mentioned Chuck Schumer's office. Were they the ones asking about this potential amendment to an already passed budget reconciliation?
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Yes, his office was the one that brought it up in front of the Senate parliamentarian.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So the Democrats are out there asking for sort of more chances to do what they can do with their slimmest of majorities. And here last night, the Senate parliamentarian appointed by Harry Reid a dozen years ago or so was like, yes. Yes, basically.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Is this how the government works now, Ella? This is an unprecedented thing. This is something that hasn't been done before.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So it's kind of this like new frontier in Senate procedure. You know, Senate procedure can be kind of dry and boring, but it does have pretty big implications to what Democrats can get passed this year.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: You know, if Republicans took back the Senate in the midterms, it would have pretty dramatic implications for what they could do through budget reconciliation.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And, you know, it's important to note that budget reconciliation has to do with budgets. It has to do with taxes, raising the debt limit. There are specific things that Democrats can pass with budget reconciliation, and there are specific things that they can't pass with budget reconciliation.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: So this doesn't give Democrats this unlimited ability to pass, like, whatever they want through budget reconciliation.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And we, again, have to remember that the same parliamentarian is probably going to be a big deciding force in, you know, what can get in and what stays out.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: But, yeah, this is a pretty big deal.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Well, Ella, we look forward to having you back to talk about the next time the Senate parliamentarian lets Democrats amend something to their next budget reconciliation bill for 2022.
--:-- Ellen Nelson: Sounds good. I always here to talk about the hot Senate procedural news
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--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Support for Today Explained comes from Built Rewards. These days, it seems like everybody has a rewards program. You swipe your card and you get one cent on the hundred dollars. But with your rent, frequently you just pay month after month. You never get anything from it other than that roof over your head. Not anymore, says Built Rewards. Built Rewards says it lets you earn points on your rent. By paying rent through Built, they say you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, perhaps a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and so much more.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Your home isn't just where you sleep. It's your community and Bilt wants you to go out and do things in the community. You can eat at your favorite local restaurants, then earn more points. You can get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios. You can enjoy exclusive experiences just for Bilt members every month.
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--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): No generic answers. No frustration. Visit Sierra.ai to learn more.
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--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Okay, so the Democrats in the Senate can do a little bit more than they thought they could do. But what are they gonna do? Lizzo, Vox, what do you think?
--:-- Lizzo: There is a ton that they can do now because anything that's related to spending taxes in the budget technically falls under the purview of reconciliation. So that includes infrastructure. It includes massive caregiving investments as well as potentially health care legislation.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So there's actually quite a bit available to Democrats. And what will really be interesting to see is if they can get all 50 members of their caucus on board to come together and support something.
--:-- Lizzo: Okay, so like a window has opened here, but it sounds like the things coming into this window are things we already knew that Democrats were going to do or even doing, like infrastructure, caregiving, which is promised to be next, even health care.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): What feels new to you?
--:-- Lizzo: It basically is another opportunity to do something without needing to get any Republicans on board. So that level of flexibility is helpful.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): For example, Democrats can now focus their most immediate budget bill solely on infrastructure and try to sell it as this targeted package on roads, bridges, broadband, electric vehicles, that kind of thing.
--:-- Lizzo: And maybe they can use that next option to do a caregiving bill that also covers health care tax credits to make child care more affordable for people.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): I guess it feels like the question might be, like, how does this stuff really work? Like, does it benefit Democrats to just focus on infrastructure? Because I have heard there is a criticism of the infrastructure bill that, like, it's too many things versus throwing in some stuff about energy, the environment, even child care in there.
--:-- Lizzo: Will this help them in the long run sell stuff to their own members? Because it sounds like this is all about just those 50 votes, huh?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): That's kind of the big reason you would break apart a bill, because if you were to do infrastructure and child care and health care all in one, you could see that being just a huge piece of legislation in terms of how much it would cost and also how massive it would be for lawmakers to write.
--:-- Lizzo: And so if you're able to say, let's do infrastructure, that's $2 trillion. Let's focus on child care, which is another $1 trillion plus whatever the cost would be for everything else. You can make that a bit more palatable to both your moderate members and also to Republicans who might try to paint Democrats as just spending so much money all at once.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): By breaking it up a little bit, you're kind of able to sell it in a way that is more accessible to people.
--:-- Lizzo: Is this like another way of sort of working around the filibuster like getting rid of the filibuster without getting rid of the filibuster?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): It basically one way to do that because if Democrats were able to eliminate the filibuster then everything could pass with just 51 votes. And since they haven't been able to, they're kind of relying on this to create another avenue to do the bills that are budget bills.
--:-- Lizzo: And so it's definitely a sign that they are trying to circumvent that particular challenge.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And if they were able to get rid of the filibuster, the things that would be coming down the pike are? Voting rights, gun control, immigration reform, police reform, many priorities that Democrats have wanted that will not fall under, you know, what you call a budget bill.
--:-- Lizzo: Any news on that front?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): It sounds like Joe Biden's increasingly open to the idea. So you got to work for the filibuster. So you're for that reform. You're for bringing back the talking filibuster.
--:-- Lizzo: I am. That's what it was supposed to be.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Yeah, he has signaled openness.
--:-- Lizzo: And what the Senate is actually going to do next is to take normal votes on those bills. And what hopefully Democrats want to show is if you have unanimous Republican opposition toward everything, that's a reason for Democrats to get rid of the filibuster and be able to advance the agenda that they want.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): It shows that there is no bipartisan support on any of the measures that we've talked about.
--:-- Lizzo: Until then, it's all coming down to these 50 votes on budget bills.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Do Democrats know that they have 50 votes on infrastructure, on caregiving, on paid family leave, on health care?
--:-- Lizzo: They don't. There's a ton of dissent within the caucus itself.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And even on something like infrastructure, for example, there's been an increase in the corporate tax rate proposed to 28 percent. And Joe Manchin has already said he's not into it.
--:-- Lizzo: As the bill exists today, it needs to be changed, Hopi.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): The bottom line is that's what legislation is all about. This bill will not be in the same form you've seen it introduced or see people talking about it.
--:-- Lizzo: Joe Manchin has already said he isn't on board with the entirety of the For the People Act, which is Democrats' chief voting rights reform bill at the moment.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): And so, like, you could plausibly see a vote where not all Democrats support some of these measures as well.
--:-- Lizzo: So at the end of the day, this development last night that came from the Senate Parliamentarian's office, per Chuck Schumer's request, doesn't sound like it's much of a game changer.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): What it is, is an additional opportunity for Democrats to get some of the key things that they want to get done this year done. Is that about right?
--:-- Lizzo: Yeah, it gives Democrats more of an opening, but it also doesn't mean anything different for a lot of these key pieces of the agenda that weren't going to pass before.
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): So at the end of the day, it all just comes down to Joe.
--:-- Lizzo: Yes. Manchin. Yeah, Joe Manchin.
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--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Lizzo, she wrote about the latest hot Senate procedural news along with Ellen Nilsson. You can read all about it at Vox.com if this wasn't enough for you. Will we ever be enough for you?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): The Today Explained team includes Cecilia Lay, Will Reed, Halima Shah, Muj Zady, and wait, what's that? Victoria Chamberlain? Miles Bryan? Wow. We got two new people and we are excited. Can you tell?
--:-- Host (Sean Rameswaram): Also some other people. Afim Shapiro is our engineer. Amina Al-Sadi is our supervising producer. Liz Kelly Nelson is the editorial director of Vox Podcasts. Jillian Weinberger is the deputy. Facts check by Laura Bullard. Music by Breakmaster Cylinder. And Breakmaster Cylinder may or may not, but probably may, make an appearance at our live show in April. It's April 9th, as in Friday, Friday morning, 10 a.m. on the internet via On Air Fest, which is a free storytelling and podcasting festival taking place this week and weekend. Register at onairfest.com. If you're free around 10 a.m. Eastern Friday, the show will be about 30 minutes long. Onairfest.com for a live episode of Today Explained, which is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hope to see you there. Thank you.
