How movie theaters might survive

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Nilay Patel: Welcome to Decoder. I'm Nilay Patel. Today, we're talking about the future of movie theaters with Shelley Taylor, the CEO of Alamo Drafthouse.

Shelley Taylor: Thanks for having me on the show.

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Nilay Patel: Movie theaters had a rougher go than most this year. They shut down. Then they tried to have a big comeback with a Warner Brothers movie called Tenet, and that didn't really work out. And then news broke late last week that Warner Brothers would be releasing all of its 2020 movies for streaming on HBO Max at the same time they're released in theaters, if theaters are open to show them to begin with. Bad news on bad news on top of bad news for movie theaters. We're talking about movies like Matrix 4. We're talking about movies like Dune in that Warner Brothers slate. This is tough stuff. But Shelley Taylor isn't giving up. She's the CEO of Alamo Drafthouse. If you don't know it, it's a kind of quirky chain and movie theaters with locations across the United States. Quirky because, for starters, they serve food and drinks to you while you watch, but their theaters also have a lot of character, and that's why people love them.

Nilay Patel: Shelley spoke to our colleague Nilay Patel recently. Nilay is the host of a new show from the Vox Media Podcast Network called Decoder. He's going to be interviewing a lot of big names in the tech business world, and he's already off to a great start with Mark Cuban, Microsoft's Phil Spencer, Khan Academy's Sal Khan, and Shelley herself. Today, we're bringing you the conversation that Nilay had with Shelley, and if you like what you hear, we hope you'll subscribe to Decoder. Here's the show.

Nilay Patel: Shelly Taylor, you're the CEO of Alamo Drafthouse. Welcome to Decoder.

Shelley Taylor: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Nilay Patel: I was just reading your bio and the backstory here. I got to start with this. You became the CEO of Alamo Drafthouse on April 30th. So you have stepped into chaos. I think Alamo actually shut down 41 theaters in March. What was this recruiting pitch like? Like, did they call you and say, Hey, are you interested? Like, was it already in the works? Just, it seems like a wild way to become the CEO of a movie theater chain.

Shelley Taylor: Yeah, it is. It does feel wild, but the, it was in the works at Christmas when Tim and I met and started talking and, you know, it's just drawn to this incredible brand and this opportunity to, you know, help take something iconic and grow it even larger. Right. And then all of a sudden the pandemic hit and here we are. So we've got this little issue to get through. Then we can go back to the original plans.

Nilay Patel: Then we can go back to the original plans. What was the, just the first day, April 30th, you show up, you got to introduce yourself to everyone. Like there's usually a script, right? The new CEO follows. You say something like, first, I just want to listen. And there's like there's the usual stuff. Was it very different this time or did you just come up running?

Shelley Taylor: A little of both, right? I mean, you do talk about like just really wanting to listen and to get to know people. You don't have the advantage of the water cooler in the office and that proximity. But at the same time, there is nothing like a crisis to create a need for connection and speed to trust. and really fortunate that the company and the teammates have been so welcoming and willing to just assume good intent and want to move forward versus having to do some of that initial stuff.

Nilay Patel: So it was pretty fast and no one's kicked me out. We're seven months in and I'm still here and things are going pretty well considering.

Nilay Patel: So I always try to ask everybody to begin about decision-making frameworks. Before Alamo Drafthouse, you were the CEO of a large group of Planet Fitness locations. You were at Disney before that. Tell me about your general way of making decisions. How do you think about evaluating your choices and then actually coming to a decision?

Shelley Taylor: You know, I think it's a couple of things. One is just knowing who and what you are. It's the beauty of everywhere I've worked has had a really clear sense of their purpose and values and the problems that they're trying to solve in this world. So always starting with that framework and driving from there.

Nilay Patel: That makes sense. You mentioned your background in decision-making frameworks. Now you're managing in a crisis where there is a flood of data. You have a very physical plant kind of business. People go to a movie theater and sit down and stay there for a while. How are you managing the influx of COVID information? There's a massively disjointed federal and state response. There's people who are refusing to wear masks. There's right before we came on, New York City closed its schools again. It feels like there's just a flow of information about the pandemic and how it's going and how we're handling it.

Shelley Taylor: Yeah, that's a great question. And I appreciate and I really want to reemphasize the lack of coordinated government approach is like crippling the nation. And if there is a message, and I know lots of people are saying this, but if there is a message to our government right now, you know, it is critical that they have a coordinated approach, you know, and the way that we're approaching it is, you know, one, you know, just my own prior experience living and working in China and seeing how this has been approached in the past, you know, helps watching countries that are, you know, and businesses and countries that are making good decisions helps.

Nilay Patel: So how are you just managing that? Yeah, that's a great question. And I appreciate and I really want to reemphasize the lack of coordinated government approach is like crippling the nation. And if there is a message, and I know lots of people are saying this, but if there is a message to our government right now, you know, it is critical that they have a coordinated approach, you know, and the way that we're approaching it is, you know, one, you know, just my own prior experience living and working in China and seeing how this has been approached in the past, you know, helps watching countries that are, you know, and businesses and countries that are making good decisions helps.

Shelley Taylor: And then we have just been, you know, just trying to take a very steady approach. And that is with the information that we do know, and that is not constantly changing. And some of that is, but there are a few constants out there, you know, is how can we make our experience as safe as possible from purchasing your ticket to the minute you leave the theater? And we haven't wavered from that. We've done a lot of pretty scrappy, fast innovation for online ordering, both of tickets and food, how you come into the theater, doing the spacing of people. So that six foot distance we had before it was popular, we said that we were going to enforce masks for everybody. We thought about our kitchens, creating a smaller menu so that we can social distance within our kitchens. How do we not breathe on food, touch food? How do we help people exit the theaters? I mean, you just name it. We've taken every single precaution that we can, and we've gone as far as we could. So we've just said, what is the safest stringent possibility? And yes, there's going to be this constant influx of information. But until there's something that comes in that says differently, we're not going to waver.

Nilay Patel: Is that a set of advisors and team members you needed to build? I feel like most movie theater chains didn't have a lot of epidemiologists on staff before COVID. But now all of us are, you know, we're all looking for that expertise. We're all looking for those guidelines. How have you built that muscle and that skill to evaluate those decisions?

Shelley Taylor: Well, we do have a really great source of a lot of people who are willing to help us, whether it's, you know, our PE firm, Ultimate Capital, gives us a ton of information and advice. whether it's, you know, our insurance and, you know, brokers on that side bring in a ton of advice. And then, you know, we've got strong relationships with the University of Texas UT, you know, and the information that you can get, you know, publicly. So, you know, we've probably done what a lot of people do. We don't have a ton of money right now. Our resources are very skinny. So we've had to kind of do it yourself as best as possible. And, you know, we'll continue to to probably operate in that method.

Nilay Patel: But it comes back to that need for a coordinated government approach to this. And the government really could be doing a better job at providing clear guidance that does not consistently change to businesses and, quite frankly, is equitable to businesses.

Shelley Taylor: What do you mean by equitable? Just small examples. In some cities, we're not allowed to open or we can open, but we can't serve food, yet the restaurant next door can serve food. That just doesn't make sense. and how you operate, what's the logic and set a simple, clear set of criteria that everyone operates off of. Because part of the problem is this, the noise and the confusion that goes out to our customers and our guests. It's safe here, but it's not safe with you. And people can't discern that. So it really should be agnostic to the business, what is safe and what's not, to the best that we know today, right?

Nilay Patel: Yeah, asking for a lot probably. Well, you know, there's a new administration. We'll see how it goes. Yes.

Nilay Patel: One of the things about the pandemic that I've heard from many CEOs, executives, is that this has accelerated trends that we already saw coming. In some cases, those trends are positive. We've seen a massive acceleration in e-commerce. Everyone already saw that coming. We just turned the knob up. There's been a pretty loud conversation for years about the future of movie theaters. And some of that has played out in different ways. Like rom don really get made by Hollywood but every other Netflix show is like basically a rom And so we just seen the dynamics of the industry change I always thought of Alamo Draft House as being slightly different than your average gigantic chain movie theater You have food it is an experience you're running old movies, people come there as a social event. Do you see it as this is accelerating the trend that was already coming? Or, you know, you started by saying, we'll just get back to work when it's over. Do you see this as an aberration on the plan that you already had for your company?

Shelley Taylor: Well, I mean, so yes, the world is accelerating in many ways. What won't go out of style is community and social experiences. And so I think while the industry was ripe for disruption and we're seeing that, Alamo's secret sauce really, right, is creating these communal experiences for people, bringing the community together to laugh, cry, gasp, whatever, but have fun together. and that that won't go out of style and so for us it will be going back to the secret sauce of what makes us special and it is you know coming into you know we we show over 2 000 films a year it's more than double what other chains show because we we bring in a really thoughtful you know slate to to our audiences and that's what they want they want more than just the big blockbusters You know, and then we do create great food, you know, and sometimes that food ties to the film, which is really fun and all the different experiences that we do create. And so that won't go out of style.

Nilay Patel: One of the things about the pandemic that I've heard from many CEOs, executives, is that this has accelerated trends that we already saw coming. In some cases, those trends are positive. We've seen a massive acceleration in e-commerce. Everyone already saw that coming. We just turned the knob up. There's been a pretty loud conversation for years about the future of movie theaters. And some of that has played out in different ways. Like rom don really get made by Hollywood but every other Netflix show is like basically a rom And so we just seen the dynamics of the industry change I always thought of Alamo Draft House as being slightly different than your average gigantic chain movie theater You have food it is an experience you're running old movies, people come there as a social event. Do you see it as this is accelerating the trend that was already coming? Or, you know, you started by saying, we'll just get back to work when it's over. Do you see this as an aberration on the plan that you already had for your company?

Shelley Taylor: Well, I mean, so yes, the world is accelerating in many ways. What won't go out of style is community and social experiences. And so I think while the industry was ripe for disruption and we're seeing that, Alamo's secret sauce really, right, is creating these communal experiences for people, bringing the community together to laugh, cry, gasp, whatever, but have fun together. and that that won't go out of style and so for us it will be going back to the secret sauce of what makes us special and it is you know coming into you know we we show over 2 000 films a year it's more than double what other chains show because we we bring in a really thoughtful you know slate to to our audiences and that's what they want they want more than just the big blockbusters You know, and then we do create great food, you know, and sometimes that food ties to the film, which is really fun and all the different experiences that we do create. And so that won't go out of style.

Nilay Patel: I spend a lot of time talking to tech CEOs and they ship me a phone and they're like, it's great. And that's the end of it. And certainly they have lots of people working in offices and they have a physical plan to manage. But your product is a physical experience for people. So I'm curious, how do you think about, you know, seats? Like we're going to have to install some seats. Like, what is the decision making process to like choose the seats in the theater and maintain them over time? Like, do you go to competing theaters and sit in their seats and think, well, these are better than mine. I got to, we're going to have to improve them. Like that's a set of decisions that I think rarely get foregrounded, but it seems clear that you have to think about them all of the time.

Shelley Taylor: Yeah. So Tim Ligar founder, I don't think he went to competitors and said, I mean, you know, some degree, what are they doing? I mean, he's created kind of the, you know, cinema eatery experience. But, you know, what he does is like, he's such a huge super fan, right? And he's like, how do I want to experience this? And one simple detail that you wouldn't necessarily notice is the space between the screen and the first row. Like, I think we have eight to 10 feet on any other theater, meaning like we go back. So we could have squeezed in another row or two, but we said, no, like we want to make sure that even if you're in the front row, that is a seat worth having.

Nilay Patel: That's really interesting. How do you think about the technical side of just showing a movie, right? That's changed a lot over the past decade. You were talking about sound and screen. There are audio formats and speakers. How much of a tech operation are you actually running just to hit play and make sure it all sounds good and looks good.

Shelley Taylor: Yeah. Well, this is not my area of expertise yet, but I'll tell you, our projectors are amazing. I mean, they've come a long way. They're a very expensive piece of equipment. What we do do differently than most of our competitors is that we're changing our bulbs out regularly and we don't wait for them to get to the end of life. And that seems like, and it's very expensive. They're thousands of dollars for one of the bulbs, but it makes a huge difference in the quality of the screen and that film that you see. So we do a lot of things like that. And it is technical, you know, and we have some of the best people in the industry who work for us, you know, that guide us in that and stay on top of it.

Nilay Patel: Just to be clear, you're the CEO. It's April 30th. You start, you're like, okay, show me the PNLs and someone's like, well, we've got this COVID problem. Also, here's our, our light bulb cost. That's a real, and you're like, this is higher than the industry and we're good with it.

Shelley Taylor: Well, yeah. I mean, I'm super curious, right? Like I, I was like, I want to see, you know, even if we're not showing films, like take me up and show me the projector. You wouldn't geek out and say, you know, show me all this stuff. So I, I, you know, I've spent time in theaters. I've worked a few shifts, not enough, but I'll get out and do more. and trying to learn it rapidly, you know, but our focus really is on survival. It's working with our banks, it's working with our landlord, landlords, you know, all of, all of that. And then quite frankly, trying to take care of our people, you know, in this situation, that's a lot to do.

Nilay Patel: You've never, I'm so, I'm so focused on the light bulb thing because it's such a, it's such a good stat, right? Like we spend more money on light bulbs because we care, But there's never been an instinct to say, hey, we're in a crisis. We could save a ton of money if we just run our projector bulbs longer. Yeah, no, that's not our goal.

Shelley Taylor: I think there are places where we can improve our P&L, and we are finding those and making improvements across the board. But it won't be in the experience, and it won't be how we treat people, whether it's our teammates or our guests. That's not where you save money. You save money on how you negotiate contracts and, you know, all the costs behind the scenes that don't touch people. That's where we need to be more disciplined and where we haven't had to focus. And, you know, quite frankly, now we are. Like, the spotlight's there. But it will not ever be on quality.

Nilay Patel: So tell me about negotiating those contracts. In reading before the interview, it sounds like your landlords are working with you. They're developing new cost structures. do you think that that is a well tell me what some of those are and then do you think that that will last through the pandemic that landlords are working with theaters because we know these are important to the community or do you think it will shift back to your standard lease agreements

Shelley Taylor: Yeah so first of all it is a huge range we have some landlords who are amazing and get the fact that there's burden sharing throughout the supply chain um for any business i mean you know these are different times than normal. And then we have some landlords, quite frankly, who they just don't care and they just want the terms as they are today and are very difficult. And so we've got the gamut and everyone does, but the conversation that we're having, whether it's with landlords, whether it's with banks, vendors, this isn't like a poorly run business. And I speak for thousands of businesses across the United States right now, not just Alamo, But there are many businesses like us that were super healthy until March. And now all of a sudden, we're in a crisis situation and bankruptcy is not the solution. Like bankruptcy is the solution for needing to shed off a bunch of your real estate assets or assets. And that's not necessarily the case. And so the way that we're going to change our economy or jumpstart it again when we come out of this and elements, you know, aspects of the economy, some, you know, tech is thriving, right? or some tech, but for service industry and those that are impacted by people physically walking in the door, it has to be burden sharing from all everyone, from the banks, your debt, you know, your debtor, your creditors, to your landlords, to your vendors, but you as the business have to burden share too. And right now we do have people that think it should be all about the business. It an impossible scenario And so I think for everyone you know to look out and say how do we again this about win because if it a win the nation loses It needs to be a win for everybody right now And it just not going to be a great win-win for a while. But if we can survive 18 to 20 months, the economy will come back. We know that. We are resilient as a nation, but we do have to find that path.

Nilay Patel: Are you, in addition to doing sort of the corporate work that you're talking about with contracts with vendors. Have you engaged on the political side? Are you out to the states you're in? I would say, are you out to the federal government, but that seems quite messy. Is that work that you're doing as well on the policy side?

Shelley Taylor: So I would really lead, like NATO and John Fethian, and they are doing a lot of that heavy lifting and we are thankful for their leadership in that, you know, lobbying and having- NATO is the National Association of Theater Owners, not the defense organization. Thank you. And it's a good thing you said that my first week on the job, I'm all, you're calling NATO? Give me a break. So yes. And now it's part of my lingo, but yeah. So they've, they've taken a huge leadership role, but we too have, you know, been talking, you know, Tim talked to, it was on the phone with Nancy Pelosi's office. I'll be on the phone with the city council in San Francisco. You know, I've talked to local lawmakers here in Texas. You know, we are having those conversations because again, and when we have these conversations, it's not just about Alamo and what we matter and we care about Alamo. It's really trying to help everyone think about the broader business community and how do we move forward together? Like that is critical right now.

Nilay Patel: Over the summer, one of the biggest controversies in Hollywood was whether or not to release Christopher Nolan's Tenet into theaters during the pandemic. Big news for the movie business, Warner Brothers Tenet from Christopher Nolan. It was set to be the first big theatrical release post-COVID in August. It's being pulled from the release schedule. Warner Brothers saying it'll share a new release date for later in 2020. The movie eventually came out and no one went. Tenet was supposed to be a huge hit, but as of right now, it's only generated 57.4 million in box office sales in the U.S. and Canada and $300.4 million globally. And it's going to come out digitally on December 15th. So I wanted to ask Shelley about what that data point told her about the timeline of reopening and really about the future of movie theaters.

Shelley Taylor: Well, first of all, just a huge thank you to Jeff Goldstein and to Warner Brothers for a studio to take a chance, right? And I think it wasn't, I think there's a couple of things that were happening. One is there's a lot of noise in the marketplace even today where people do not know if movie theaters are open or not. So not even if they're safe, they just don't even know it's a possibility. And trying to cut through that noise has been really difficult. And so when I look at it, I don't see it as there was a message in it. I see it as the industry works in a certain way, And we just didn't have some of those key elements. One is enough and not because of Warner Brothers, but because there's just so much noise, but a clear message out there to people that theaters were open and that they're open in a really safe way and in a fun way. You know, like the messaging that we did come out with as an industry was a little dry. Like we're safe because of, you know, a professor telling you versus come back to the theater. We've been super smart, but you're going to have fun, you know, so we've got to get better at that.

Nilay Patel: And then, you know, no movie is going to stand on its own. It's kind of like you don't want to be the only restaurant on a block. You want several. And it's the same with the movie slate. You've got to have a number of movies out at one time to draw in audiences. And so, again, Warner Brothers was huge in taking that first step. And shame on everybody else who pulled their movies out at the last minute and didn't follow through, you know. And so we, you know, for the studios, we've got to have a coordinated movie slate again and a coordinated message of we're open and not just Alamo, but all movie theaters. It's really hard on the industry when you hear that certain chains are shutting down and not open. Well, we're not. What kind of audiences are you seeing come in now? I know you've been doing some private rentals to families and groups and so on. I know that's been a success. Are you seeing just sort of the day-to-day traffic to the movie theater that you were expecting?

Shelley Taylor: Well, the private theater. So first of all, super proud, right? Like again, stood that up really quickly on with no budget and a small resources. So huge kudos to my team and all the people that did it. And the private theater is super fun. It's turning out to be about 55% of our revenue. Wow. Yeah. I mean, you think about it, you pick the movie, you create your own community and you come together and get to have this great event for shockingly a pretty affordable price. And prior to working at Alamo, I would have never thought it was possible. I could rent a theater route. Like that just felt beyond anyone's means. So we've proven we can do that and create this great experience. We still have a lot of just general showings and people coming and have been asked this a lot and we haven't put a ton of energy around it, but anecdotally, I can see a wide variety of people. You've got the Alamo fans, you've got a pretty wide age range. It's not just millennials or whatever, you know? So I think it's just movie lovers and people who, you know, are wearing masks, have found a way to be safe and are picking a few things they want to do. And movies are one of them.

Nilay Patel: By the way, when I was in high school, one of my friends, her dad was the manager of the local theater. She had a birthday party and it was the coolest thing. So you're right. I mean, that's, it's one of those things that everybody dreams about. It's cool that you can do it, but you're not getting first run movies such as they are anymore. That's Jurassic Park and the Goonies and older movies in that experience. What does that tell you about the value of the experience of going to the movies versus the novelty of the blockbuster movie coming out?

Shelley Taylor: Well, it goes back. I think we need both, right? I don't think it's an either or, but I do think that it speaks to the fact that people are looking for experiences and that, We truly have been for a while, and I think into the future, we're an experiential economy. And so the fact that people can come and find their favorite movies, they can create their own parties and dress up or do something fun around it is critical. First run movies and blockbusters are still going to be important. People want new content and they want to come and see that huge, that film. Think about the filmmakers. They're putting their life into telling these amazing stories, spending a ton of money, and they want that to be on a big screen, big sound, with a large audience. And people want to see that, too, because it's great at home, but it is not the same at home as it is in a big theater. So I think it's both. I think the private theater will easily carry into the future. Sure, we think there's something there. You know, we're going to continue to work with that product and see how it evolves and grows. But we need both. And that will be probably one of the changes for the industry as it evolves. It won't be either or it won't be or as both.

Nilay Patel: Well, because I'm looking at kind of the big film studios, Disney, Warner. They all have their own streaming services now. They're very excited about them. Disney puts out Mulan. They try a new pricing model on top of their existing subscription. went okay, maybe they'll do it again. Obviously, Warner has HBO Max, their whole company is pointed at that product. Do you think there will be a shift to releasing stuff on the streaming services at maybe a high price and in theaters at the same time?

Shelley Taylor: Yeah, I think, you know, so first of all, we take a lot of hope in watching the fact that more and more blockbusters are being held and waiting for theatrical. If that were the case, you know, there's a whole bunch of movies that could have easily been put on a streaming immediately. And I'd like to think it's, you know, that the studios understand, the filmmakers understand there's a lot of lost revenue if you skip theatrical. And there's a way to probably do both, have incredible theatrical and then go on to streaming. And to shortchange that process probably doesn't make sense.

Nilay Patel: Do you think that theater owners, and I realize Alamo is a very different kind of theater chain than kind of the big ones that have held back some innovation on the studio side. But do you think the theaters have held back some of that consumer innovation? Like, I have always thought to myself, I would just pay $100 to watch this movie at home and rent it for, you know, just for a night. But I, there's no way I'm going to go to a theater to watch this like mid-market movie. Just like, let me watch it here now and I'll be done with it. That has never happened. and the theaters have always been opposed to it. The theaters have been opposed to Netflix going out to awards because they stream the stuff. There's just been a lot of that noise here that seems like maybe it'll come out of the pandemic and those questions will get resolved. But what is that relationship between theater owners and the studios as the studios try to innovate and, quite honestly, use this moment as leverage to get some things they've always wanted?

Shelley Taylor: I think there's a couple things. I think, first of all, if theaters and studios think that the battle is between us, then we've lost all of us. The battle is with COVID and the battle, you know, ultimately is how to best serve your guest. And so, you know, first, like coming together to fight COVID and then get into this new world, I think is going to be important. And when we get into it, to me, it's silly to think that there's streaming or theater. There's this or that. Content is coming at us faster than ever. No one knew that YouTube would be huge. I mean, just take whatever innovation over the last 10 years with content. And people are consuming more content than they've ever consumed. So I think the question is, how do studios and theaters continue to say, what are the best ways that we can serve our guests and create incredible experiences for storytelling? And so, yes, we may be different, but we also do not want our fellow theaters going out of business. We need theaters and we don't want to be the lone survivor. That doesn't make sense But I think it really is unifying around how do we serve our guests And for us the secret sauce incredible experience you know experience We take every little we sweat every little detail We think about the napkin We think about how clean our theaters are We think about, you know, the popcorn. I mean, we think about the quality of the sound. We do an incredible amount around our screens and sound so that that experience is always perfect. And then we're going to continue to innovate of, you know, whether it's in the theater or whether it's at home. But it's going to be both. And people are still going to come to the theater. I mean, that's just, I can't imagine a world without a theater. I really can't.

Nilay Patel: When you say we need theaters, you said it a few times, in the post-pandemic landscape, it feels like one potential outcome is there's theaters like Alamo, which are curated, which are more cultural events, and there's big chains that show Marvel movies and Little Else on 45 screens. Does that seem like the most likely outcome, or do you think the big chains will have to change even more?

Shelley Taylor: Yeah. I mean, everybody wants that crystal ball, right? Yeah. You know, I think that everyone will have to evolve and change to some degree. And I think as much as this sucks, the pandemic, and there's very few, if any, silver linings because of the damage it's done to people. And I don't want to undervalue that in any way. But at the same time, as much as this sucks, it is a microscope on our business. And for each of us to look back and say, you know, everything from, you know, how do I, you know, select real estate and how do I build out and what are those costs involved and are there ways to be more effective and efficient? Can I think about the size and, you know, type of footprint for a theater differently? Think about how big an auditorium should be. You know, in some places we're probably over screened and other parts of the nation we're probably under screened. You know, so thinking about all of those to the unit economics and again, without hurting your quality, there's a lot of lessons to be learned in that. And we certainly are learning them and we'll move forward with those lessons. And, you know, probably everybody has to. But, you know, I can speak to the big chains and what they're going to do or not do. We're going to take one more break. But when we come back, we'll talk a little bit more about the future of the physical theater experience and whether we'll see Alma Draft House pivot to outdoor drive-ins.

Nilay Patel: We're back. I have a few more questions for Shelley about how to keep the movie theater experience relevant during and after the global pandemic. I feel like one of the things about the internet and streaming services is that we have one sort of national cultural moment all the time. Everyone's just, here's the thing that's on Netflix. We're all going to talk about it. It seems like theaters have a big opportunity to create regional experiences and regional moments in a way that has really gone underexamined, right? We just don't do that a lot anymore. Is that something you're thinking about leaning into? Do you have regional curators or does that happen at sort of the top of the draft house?

Shelley Taylor: Yeah, it's a mix, right? Like, I mean, you have people in the region who know that audience best and are creating experiences and our roadshows are a great example. You know, we've done things like, you know, Jaws