--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Welcome to Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm Noel King.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today, we're talking about Canada's federal election. It's election day in Canada, which is nothing new for reporter Stephanie Levitz. I have covered, I believe this is my ninth federal election. But Stephanie says this one is without precedent.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: It feels like the next campaign in this country was going to go, and it feels like that's all been flipped on its head.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So you have the Liberal campaign, which is led by Mark Carney, which is driving a narrative that says he's the guy to take on U.S. President Donald Trump. We can't change President Trump. So we need a leader that can stand up to him.
--:-- Noel King: His chief opponent, Conservative leader Pierre Polyev, running more on a cost of living narrative.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: We cannot afford a fourth Liberal term. It's as though they're kind of evaluating them and imagining a boardroom and imagining the U.S. president at one end of the table and this leader at the other end of the table. And which one do I want to see in that seat?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How Trump's 51st state talk may have saved Canada's libs. Coming up on Today Explained.
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--:-- Noel King: Like maybe a relaxed Prada blazer or Gucci loafers that are great for both work and the weekend.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: This is very Sean. This is very Sean-coated. Gucci loafers.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Saks says Saks makes shopping feel totally customized to you, whether that's from an in-store stylist or a visit to Saks.com, where they can show you just what you want to see.
--:-- Noel King: They say they'll even let you know when arrivals from your favorite designers are in or when something you've been eyeing is back in stock.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can find inspiration for your personal style every day at Saks Fifth Avenue.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from Strawberry.me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown? or never wanted in the first place?
--:-- Noel King: Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving?
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Let a career coach from strawberry.me help you get unstuck. Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When we sat down with Stephanie Levitz from The Globe and Mail, we started talking about how it was just about a year ago that we sat down with former Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
--:-- Noel King: He was eager to talk about his ambitious plans to invest in housing construction, affordable health care and child care, raising capital gains taxes.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: These are things that actually meet people where they are in their cost of living and provide solutions for a better life.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Those choices are going to be on the table in the next election.
--:-- Noel King: And I'm confident the Canadians are going to remain responsible, ambitious and optimistic about their future.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: You know, I asked him if he should just step aside and he said, no, I still have something to offer the Canadian people.
--:-- Noel King: But it turned out the Canadian people weren't buying when he was selling.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: I mean, that's pretty much it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When I think back about when he went on your podcast, he was trying to reach a different group of voters.
--:-- Noel King: He was trying to reach people, frankly, that his opponent, Conservative leader Pierre Polyev, had been so successful reaching, which was millennials, younger Canadians, people really worried about their futures.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And at that moment in time, those people were squarely behind Pierre Polyev, and they weren't interested in Justin Trudeau because part of it was, well, thanks, where you've been? You've already been in power for nine years.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so as this campaign sort of drags on, Trudeau has to finally face the music and he announces that he will be stepping aside.
--:-- Noel King: But it seems like right as he's in the process of stepping aside, all of a sudden the Liberals do get a boost from a very unlikely source.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Is that accurate? Canada and the United States, that would really be something.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You get rid of that artificially drawn line and you take a look at what that looks like.
--:-- Noel King: This is one of the wild turning points of our election.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: So you have the Liberals down in the dumps. Nothing is going right for them.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then in December, in this like Shakespearean political moment, his finance minister and deputy prime minister, Krista Freeland, quit.
--:-- Noel King: On the very morning, she was supposed to deliver a major economic update for the government.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And when she quit, it was to tell Justin Trudeau that she didn't think he had the chops to guide the country in a trade war with the United States.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Now, in a letter posted to X addressed to the prime minister, Freeland says the prime minister and her have found themselves at odds over the past few weeks about the best path forward for Canada.
--:-- Noel King: There is one line that is particularly pointed where she says that we need to eschew political gimmicks that the country can ill afford.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Trudeau sees the writing on the wall, decides to go. I intend to resign as party leader, as prime minister, after the party selects its next leader.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But because he launches a leadership race in the interim, now, while he's still prime minister, he only needs to focus on one thing, not all the things.
--:-- Noel King: And that thing, that big, big thing that was blotting out the sun in Canada was Donald Trump and the launch of the tariff war.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Mr. President, is there anything China, Canada and Mexico can do tonight to forestall your implementation of tariffs tomorrow? No, nothing. Not right now, no.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And from that point on, when you saw Justin Trudeau, you know, singularly focused on being Captain Canada.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Canadians are reasonable and we are polite, but we will not back down from a fight.
--:-- Noel King: Which is a role that suits him, that comes naturally to him because of his upbringing, because his father was a prime minister.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: People started sort of responding to the Liberals in a very different way than they'd been responding to them for months.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And you begin to see the polls tick, tick, tick, tick up for the Liberals.
--:-- Noel King: Then along comes the new Liberal leader, Mark Carney.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And that's when you really begin to see the polls take off for the Liberal Party.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We didn't ask for this fight. But Canadians are always ready when someone else drops the gloves.
--:-- Noel King: So the Americans, they should make no mistake, in trade as in hockey, Canada will win.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And under this new guy, who's very different than Justin Trudeau in all sorts of ways, people who had turned their backs on the liberals began turning towards them.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: People who were worried about, you know, the future of this country, but used to put those votes in a much more progressive political party, the New Democrats, it was called.
--:-- Noel King: They started looking to the liberal party.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: People in Quebec where the federal political party there is called the Bloc Qu they are a separatist party.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Incredibly, Quebecers were looking towards the Liberal Party.
--:-- Noel King: The Liberal pitch in Quebec is that only the Liberals can stand up to President Donald Trump.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Just like elsewhere in Canada, Quebecers voting intentions and the way they looked at this federal election was completely upended.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it was this swing of fortunes for the Liberals.
--:-- Noel King: And now they're running neck and neck with their former opponents.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Mark Carney, different from Trudeau, in some ways maybe similar to Trudeau, but tell us how he contrasts with Justin Trudeau, especially for the Canadian voters right now.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Sure. I mean, there's a generational difference that's a big one, right? Mark Carney is 60.
--:-- Noel King: He's got grown children.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He has worked in a variety of high-profile jobs.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was the governor of the Bank of Canada, which is the equivalent of the head of the Fed in the U.S.
--:-- Noel King: He was the governor of the Bank of England.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He had a job at the UN sort of directing sustainable climate initiatives.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If the world truly wants a revolution towards a more sustainable, resilient and fair energy system, the finance for it will be there.
--:-- Noel King: He's got this international resume.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He has never served a day in elected office.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He is definitely not a politician.
--:-- Noel King: And his demeanor, whereas Justin Trudeau had this energy, this buoyancy, and this dramatic effect that he would often bring to a lot of what he did.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Mark Carney is like the opposite of that. He's calmer, much more academic, much more corporate in a way.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And what's really interesting about that, just to go back to Justin Trudeau for a second, trying to reach those millennial voters, Mr. Carney has brought back the boomers.
--:-- Noel King: He has brought back this voting cohort that is, they are reliable voters in every single election, and they are turning to him, and they're saying, yeah, that guy.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And let's talk about Carney in relation to his opposition.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Tell people who Pierre Polyev is and what his appeal is in this election right now.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sure. So Pierre Polyev is in his mid-40s.
--:-- Noel King: He's got two young kids.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He really has cut his teeth over the years as being a politician who can really meet particular moments very well.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he rode to a tremendous degree of success, became leader of his party in the easing out of the pandemic era, where the restrictions in Canada had been, in some cases, quite dramatic.
--:-- Noel King: People were chomping at the bit for freedom. They wanted the government out of their life.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And so he began to jump on this narrative. Let's remove the government gatekeepers to build more homes, grow more food and produce more energy right here in Canada.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That he was really successful in beating Justin Trudeau over the head with on a daily basis for like two years, and people responded.
--:-- Noel King: Mr. Polyev is a master of the rhetorical flourish.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He loves slogans. He loves things that rhyme. Acts the tax. Taxes up. Costs up. Crimes up. Times up.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And, you know, some of that stuff really works for people because it makes the message stick.
--:-- Noel King: And he's been really successful with that message up until the moment or the series of moments in which Donald Trump got elected, Justin Trudeau stepped down, and Mark Carney got himself elected liberal leader.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And that message track, while still very resonant with Canadians, just can't take enough support away from Mark Carney.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Hmm. I mean, I've heard Pierre Polyev referred to as Canadian Trump.
--:-- Noel King: Now, how does a Canadian Trump compete in an election where Trump has become such a boogeyman for Canadians?
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And therein lies the issue, right? When people watch Mr. Polyev, they listen to him. They come away thinking, ugh, it's like he's kind of Trumpy.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Listen, I think to have 10 or 15,000 people at one political rally, this is a movement like we've never seen because people want change.
--:-- Noel King: They want to put our country first for a change.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And it's in the way he speaks. It's in his rhetoric, the hyperbole, the sloganeering.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Trudeau gets protection from the cancel culture woke warriors.
--:-- Noel King: And I will replace the woke culture with a warrior culture, a common sense Canada first plan.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And so when Mr. Polyev gives off an echo of that, it sends people away.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay. And then either way, whoever wins, how do they stand up to Trump differently than, say, Trudeau and Carney have done so far?
--:-- Noel King: Yeah, this one's interesting.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: I mean, Mr. Carney does have a lot of contacts and connections in the international geopolitical world.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And, you know, he's made a point of saying that the old relationship with the United States is over.
--:-- Noel King: There is a new path forward.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And so he'll have to figure out how to shape that path and what those conversations with Mr. Trump look like.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Conversely, Mr. Polyev takes a much more domestic-facing view of things, I think.
--:-- Noel King: In terms of standing up to Trump, he's promising to do things that rebuild our economy quite quickly, developing natural resources, building more homes.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And so we'll see.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I don't know. I mean, Mr. Trump has said not nice things about Pierre Polyev.
--:-- Noel King: Well, I think his biggest problem is he's not a MAGA guy, you know.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He's really not. He's not a Trump guy at all.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Which is weird and funny, I guess.
--:-- Noel King: I don't know.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he has been slightly more conciliatory, shall we say, to Mr. Carney than he was ever to Justin Trudeau.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: He has not referred to Mr. Carney as Governor Carney.
--:-- Noel King: He has referred to him as Prime Minister.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Wow. But we had a very good talk, the Prime Minister and myself, and I think things are going to work out very well between Canada and the United States.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Yeah, please go ahead.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So that's an interesting tonal switch. Same party, different attitude, eh?
--:-- Noel King: Same party, different attitude.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: And, you know, there's lots of folks in Canada who will say that some degree of the animosity that Mr. Trump has displayed to our country was born out of a personal animosity for Justin Trudeau.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Just didn't like the guy. They didn't get along.
--:-- Noel King: Famous clash when Canada hosted the G7.
--:-- Stephanie Levitz: Well, he's too fast. It's all a grudge match.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Rumors swirling that Melania crushes on Justin.
--:-- Noel King: I don't know.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know what? All politics is personal at the end of the day.
--:-- Noel King: And if you can't make a personal relationship with world leaders, that sometimes that's not going to work to your advantage.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Can Mr. Carney build that relationship with Mr. Trump? We'll see.
--:-- Noel King: Can Mr. Polyev build that relationship with Mr. Trump? We'll see.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can read Stephanie Levitz at theglobeandmail.com.
--:-- Noel King: Elbows up when we're back at Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for today's show comes from Adio.
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--:-- Noel King: Maybe it's the brand names you'll be shocked Burlington has in store.
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--:-- Noel King: If you like to save but also like to stay in style, Burlington is your answer.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And the question you'll be asking yourself is, why go anywhere else?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Burlington. Deals. Brands. Wow.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Upwork.
--:-- Noel King: If you run a business, you know that scaling your business requires the right expertise at the right time.
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--:-- Noel King: I would love to know. Please email me, noelle at king dot com.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com, Upwork.com.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Canada is the second largest landmass, the first nation of hockey, and the best part of North America!
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Your name is... Sean Ramos from Today Explained, here with David Moskrat, Canadian.
--:-- David Moskrat: Born in Peterborough, Ontario, and spent most of my young life in central Ontario.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Although, incidentally, my late father was American, in case anyone is wondering if I might be a sleeper agent.
--:-- David Moskrat: I'm not, but I want to just get that out off the top, just in case.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: David's also a political columnist and podcast host, and he says, Perhaps, unlike most Americans, Canadians are taking Trump's 51st state comments pretty seriously.
--:-- David Moskrat: Here, nobody really took it as a joke. It was at best an insult and at worst a credible threat.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I think for a lot of people, the calculus was, okay, well, this might not happen.
--:-- David Moskrat: It probably won't happen in the sense that we're going to get invaded, troops going over the border.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But when the hegemon and your neighbor along the world's longest undefended border, at least for now, starts talking about annexation, you think, OK, maybe this is something we should take seriously, you know, just in case.
--:-- David Moskrat: And of course, that accompanied real economic threats that we started to feel immediately.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so that was a real one-two punch that hit.
--:-- David Moskrat: And in the meantime, there were some Americans, including people like Steve Bannon, saying, China and Russia, the great powers, and the United States, fighting it out over the Arctic is going to be the new great game of the 21st century.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Canada, you are thrust into the middle of that, and quite frankly, you're the great prize of that.
--:-- David Moskrat: It's like, okay, well then, we're listening.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, what did you do as a country?
--:-- David Moskrat: It's not like Justin Trudeau sent troops to the border, is it?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, yes and no. No, not in the sense we didn't send troops to the border to go defend because that would be an exercise in futility.
--:-- David Moskrat: We don't have that many troops to begin with. It's a huge border.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, they're stretched a little thin as it is. It's a long border.
--:-- David Moskrat: But incidentally, as it happens, as Trump started in the early days said, well, you know, we're going to hit Canada with tariffs because of fentanyl and because of a lax border.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The fentanyl coming through Canada is massive.
--:-- David Moskrat: The government under, at the time, Justin Trudeau said, OK, well, we're going to start patrolling the border with Black Hawk helicopters.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're going to send drones.
--:-- David Moskrat: We're going to declare drug cartels terrorists.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We launched a $1.3 billion border plan that is already showing results.
--:-- David Moskrat: Because we too are devastated by the scourge that is fentanyl.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Incidentally, it turns out that border apprehensions, according to the White House, are down.
--:-- David Moskrat: But as you can imagine, tariffs are not.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Okay, so there's some real practical reactions there.
--:-- David Moskrat: What about the cultural reaction?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The cultural reaction has been fascinating because at no time in my life, I'm a spry 41 and a half, but at no time in my life have I seen this sort of surge of nationalism that's been so widespread and sustained, at least so far, and rapid.
--:-- David Moskrat: And it's manifested itself in all kinds of ways.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We saw the booing of the Star Spangled Banner at sports events.
--:-- David Moskrat: Which was actually encouraged by the Prime Minister of Canada, if I recall correctly.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And yeah, we're probably going to keep booing the American anthem.
--:-- David Moskrat: Yeah, there was a kind of hedging on that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But let me tell Americans, we're not booing you.
--:-- David Moskrat: We're not booing your teams.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We're not booing your players.
--:-- David Moskrat: We're booing a policy that is designed to hurt us.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We pulled booze off the shelves from the United States.
--:-- David Moskrat: A handful of provinces here, including mine in Ontario and British Columbia, straight up said, OK, the state liquor distributor and retailer is simply not going to carry alcohol.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And since then, it's only been Canadian spirits and beer.
--:-- David Moskrat: There was a return of the I Am Canadian, this iconic I Am Canadian beer commercial from the early 2000s.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Hey I not a lumberjack or a fur trader.
--:-- David Moskrat: And I live in an igloo or eat blubber or own a dog sled.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Jeff Douglas talking about these stereotypical Canadian things, you know, as a flag waved on the screen in the background.
--:-- David Moskrat: I believe in peacekeeping, not policing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Diversity, not assimilation.
--:-- David Moskrat: And that the beaver is a truly proud, a noble animal.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You go to grocery stores and you see American products sitting there.
--:-- David Moskrat: On the shelves while Canadian products are empty.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And even I was part of this.
--:-- David Moskrat: I went to the grocery store one day and I wanted to make poutine because I guess I felt like being a stereotype.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's just something you shouldn't do every day because it's heavy.
--:-- David Moskrat: Especially as you've got to get to your 40s.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, once you get into your spry early 40s, don't eat poutine every day.
--:-- David Moskrat: I'm not that kind of doctor, but I think that's solid advice.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I went in and I picked up a can of gravy and I get to the cache and I look at it and it's called Americano.
--:-- David Moskrat: I'm like, I should have noticed this earlier.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So I go back down, I haul my butt back down the aisle and I went and I checked the label to be sure.
--:-- David Moskrat: And sure enough, it comes from the United States.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I put it back on the shelf and I got a different gravy.
--:-- David Moskrat: I walked back and paid for it and left the store.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There was even this great instructional video, right?
--:-- David Moskrat: Also, you know, comedic, but telling Canadians how to go about boycotting U.S. products, right?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You were going to buy American maple syrup? Oh. Okay, that costs way more.
--:-- David Moskrat: So does freedom. Which they have.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They're not traveling to the United States either.
--:-- David Moskrat: Bookings are way down.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Border crossings, both for Canadians and Americans, are way down.
--:-- David Moskrat: And this is, you know, two deeply integrated economies, both economically and culturally.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A trade relationship worth a trillion dollars a year.
--:-- David Moskrat: 75% of Canadian exports go stateside.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And people all of a sudden say, no, it's both an economic and cultural imperative that I start to push back against this.
--:-- David Moskrat: And it came out of nowhere because, you know, prior to Trump trash talking Canada, threatening Canada and levying tariffs, this wasn't really on the radar.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And we'd be remiss to talk about the culture of the backlash in Canada without talking about elbows up.
--:-- David Moskrat: Could you explain that for people who didn't know what Mike Myers was saying on SNL?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's right. This has become both a rallying cry and a meme and a little bit cringe in Canada.
--:-- David Moskrat: It was a genuine moment that's also been appropriated by politicians.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Elbows up! And it's elbows up time.
--:-- David Moskrat: Ladies and gentlemen, Canada will never bend.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We will never kiss the gangster's ring.
--:-- David Moskrat: But let me ask you, Mr. Prime Minister, will there always be a Canada?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There will always be a Canada. All right.
--:-- David Moskrat: Elbows up. Elbows up.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: People on social media, in some cases, have put little emojis in their profiles with hashtags that say elbows up.
--:-- David Moskrat: And it comes from Mike Myers going on SNL, and he's wearing a Canada's not for sale shirt.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he puts up his elbow and now elbows up, in reference to the hockey expression that basically means, you know, get ready to fight, get ready to stand up for yourself.
--:-- David Moskrat: And some people liken it back to hockey legend Gordie Howe, who was quite famous for throwing elbows.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do you think it dissipates after the election? Or does that more so depend on Trump's threats that follow the election?
--:-- David Moskrat: Well, this is it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, I think every time Trump opens his mouth and starts speaking off about the 51st state or threatening another round of tariffs, it comes back.
--:-- David Moskrat: Even if it settles a little bit, it comes back.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I think the suspicion and the anger and the sense of betrayal that is expressed culturally and politically is going to lead to a remaking of public policy that's going to lock in those changes.
--:-- David Moskrat: Because once you said, okay, well, I'm going to start shipping goods and services to other countries.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm going to make my business plans based on that.
--:-- David Moskrat: I'm going to build a bigger east-west electricity grid instead of running it north-south.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm going to ship, I'm going to build pipelines to ship oil and gas east-west and out on the ocean instead of to the south.
--:-- David Moskrat: Well, then you're kind of locked into that new arrangement because it's expensive and difficult to change it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so, as Mark Carney, the Prime Minister himself, has said, you know, the relationship has fundamentally changed for good.
--:-- David Moskrat: And I think a lot of people feel that way.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And are people mournful of it?
--:-- David Moskrat: I think mournful is exactly the right word because that's how I feel.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Millions of us really deeply love Americans, but don't love what the American administration is doing to our country and our relationship.
--:-- David Moskrat: And it feels like those ties that bind have been severed by that administration.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And yeah, we're mourning that loss because it kind of feels like losing a family member.
--:-- David Moskrat: I can't even share for the Red Wings anymore.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do I have to be a Habs fan?
--:-- David Moskrat: No, God knows I'm not going to be a Leafs fan, but do I have to be a Habs fan?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah, I know.
--:-- David Moskrat: There is a kind of light jokey side to this, a kind of spy versus spy side to it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But then you start digging and you're like, oh, the Trump tariffs could decimate entire industries and put cities out of work and industries out of work and drive Canada into a recession and people would lose their homes.
--:-- David Moskrat: And you're like, that jokey bit stops at the water's edge.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so the cultural expressions are going to reflect that.
--:-- David Moskrat: And so maybe that means getting a Habs jersey.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Andrea Christensdottir and Patrick Boyd mix.
--:-- David Moskrat: Gabrielle Burr Bay and Laura Bullard check the facts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And wait, my spidey sense is tingling.
--:-- David Moskrat: It must be because it's Laura's birthday.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Happy birthday, Laura, from everyone at Today Explained.
--:-- David Moskrat: Thank you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you.
