--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's Today Explained. I'm Sean Rameswaram. And I'm Noelle King.
--:-- Noelle King: Yesterday, a congressman from Florida and a senator from Connecticut introduced a gun violence prevention bill. That congressman has a long history on gun control issues. Before he moved to D.C., he was March for Our Lives' first ever national organizing director.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In a little over six minutes, 17 of our friends were taken from us, 15 were injured, And everyone, absolutely everyone in the Douglas community was forever altered.
--:-- Noelle King: Now, five years ago tomorrow, March for Our Lives took over Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington, D.C. On the show today, Democratic Representative Maxwell Frost and his friend David Hogg, co-founder of March for Our Lives, tell us what their movement has accomplished in five years.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They say it's a long list. And they're going to tell us what's on Gen Z's agenda in Washington. Two Gen Z's will tell two old millennials what's up.
--:-- Noelle King: Oh, no. Are we the old millennials? We are.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Maxwell Frost, congressman representing Florida's 10th Congressional District. I'm David Hogg, a co-founder of March for Our Lives and a Harvard student.
--:-- David Hogg: How do you two know each other? When did you meet?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Maxwell and I first met, it was actually the day that Bernie Sanders had a heart attack, like the night before.
--:-- David Hogg: Yeah, and I was actually working for the senator on the road on his advance team.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: So out of nowhere, my day became completely free due to very unfortunate circumstances.
--:-- David Hogg: And so I came to the event and I was just kind of there all day.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You guys are in this room together with us today because there's an anniversary this week. How are you feeling right now about this anniversary, the five-year anniversary of the March for Our Lives?
--:-- David Hogg: Complicated.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I wouldn't say that I'm always hopeful by any means, considering what happens every day in this country with this issue.
--:-- David Hogg: But I also am not entirely pessimistic either.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Because how could you be when we were a group of high school students that started out five years ago, who many people said would never do anything, would never amount to anything, was just a temporary moment.
--:-- David Hogg: But now I'm sitting in this room with you all five years later with the first member of Congress from our organization to be elected as the youngest member of Congress.
--:-- Noelle King: That permeated our culture. And it created the conditions where, yes, there were people out registering people to vote, which was important.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: But even more than that, people were going to register to vote on their own.
--:-- David Hogg: And that's where you have the staggering numbers that you want in YouthVote and vote, right?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Like you want to organize on the ground, but you want a movement that permeates the culture, bridges the gap between cool and consciousness and builds an environment where people want to do it because it's the thing to do or it's cool or whatever.
--:-- David Hogg: And that's really what March for Our Lives did, especially that whole year.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Like it was cool to go to the march.
--:-- David Hogg: I remember going to mine and seeing a ton of people I hadn't seen in a long time.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And they were like, yeah, I just felt like I had to be here.
--:-- David Hogg: Like it's the moment.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And that's why we say the way, you know, the strength of a movement is what they're doing when no one gives a when it's not in the news, when no one cares, because when it is in the news and people care the way you organize the infrastructure you built, that's where it matters.
--:-- David Hogg: And so that's what we see March for Our Lives doing today is they're building that infrastructure because unfortunately there is a cycle with gun violence, especially in this country.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: There's a shooting that happens. There's a vigil. There's a press conference. It's in the news for a couple cycles, depending on what it is.
--:-- David Hogg: And then it seems to die down from the national limelight, but it doesn't die down for the families.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It doesn't die down for the communities.
--:-- David Hogg: It doesn't die down for the activists and organizers who continue to work year-round.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What was the objective five years ago? I mean, you have, as you say, millions of young people out in the streets, but at that point, you also need them to do something. What was it you were trying to get out of this moment?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I think it was about showing physically how big the support is for this, because we know the vast majority of Americans support things like background checks, support things like red flag laws.
--:-- David Hogg: But there's a tiny minority that shows up at these state legislatures and other places that make these laws that is so powerful.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And by showing up there physically, I think we did a couple of things.
--:-- David Hogg: One, it enabled us to help register voters.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Two, it helped set the tone for a generation and a cultural shift in that generation to say, this is who we are.
--:-- David Hogg: You know, for the most part, like this is what we stand for is making sure that kids are safe in their communities and in their schools.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And it's not just about talking about mass shootings and what happened in Parkland.
--:-- David Hogg: And I think the last thing that it helped do in hindsight, I don't know how much of this was us consciously thinking it at the time, but I think one of the most important things the marches have done is offer survivors solidarity and knowing that they're not alone.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I think that's one of the really hard things about this is survivors, because of the guilt that they feel, put so much pressure on themselves that they have to solve this, that it crushes the movement because those people end up not being able to take care of themselves and they end up feeling crushed.
--:-- David Hogg: When you're there with your friends and your allies, though, and you make new friends, you know that you're not alone and you know that you can have the permission to step back when you need to to rest.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And it's not relying on any single one of us.
--:-- David Hogg: I think a lot of it was just we wanted to show that we were mad as hell and get out there and show these elected officials that like they say in Network I as mad as hell but I not going to take this anymore
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And just raise a lot of passion and righteous indignation for our generation
--:-- David Hogg: Yeah, 100%. The direct action, the march was the catalyst for everything that came after it.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And I'm very passionate about this because I'm a musician. I come from like music and event world.
--:-- David Hogg: And I truly believe that events play a critical role in movements and culture, everything.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: That's what you saw in March for Our Lives. It was a visual representation. It was a feeling when you were there. It was a feeling of not being there and seeing it online.
--:-- David Hogg: And all of that culminated to a place where you had the highest youth voter turnout in the history of our midterms in 2018.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And you have something else. March for Our Lives sent me and Sean this very tantalizing fact about the movement a couple days ago, which is that this movement has won the passage of 250 plus gun laws since it began.
--:-- David Hogg: That's an extraordinary number.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: What are those laws? Like where would we see them out in the wild?
--:-- David Hogg: Immediately after what happened in Parkland, we had many adults coming to us and saying, you know, it's great you guys care, but your kids, this is Florida, you're not going to change anything.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: But one of the laws that we did pass after Parkland was the thing called an extremist protection order or red flag law that enables you to disarm somebody that is a risk to themselves or others.
--:-- David Hogg: And an instance where this was actually used was for my own mom, where somebody threatened to kill my mom and sent her a death threat that said F with the NRA and go be DOA.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: We used the law that we passed after Parkland to disarm that individual that lived, I think, only like 20 minutes away from us.
--:-- David Hogg: And that law has now been used, at least last I checked, I think it was around 9,000 times.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: So it's probably even more.
--:-- David Hogg: So it's been used that many times.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And, you know, there's a lot of people, the detractors out there say, well, you know, gun laws don't work.
--:-- David Hogg: But the reality is no law is perfect.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I will fully admit that.
--:-- David Hogg: But, you know, that law may have helped prevent me from having to bury my own mom.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How do you go about taking credit for 250 laws when, you know, there's been movements that have popped up after other mass shootings? So when there's been this pre-existing movement for decades.
--:-- David Hogg: I would say that we were part of it in helping to reignite a movement that was already there before us in the first place, especially movement pioneered by black women in places like Jamaica, Queens and New York City, like Erica Ford.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Before I was 30 years old, I was involved in over 20 mass shootings.
--:-- David Hogg: The only thing they weren't called mass shootings then. They were just called shootings in the hood.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I think that's part of the change that March for Our Lives, I would like to think, helped brought, which is that from really the beginning, when we started this work, it was about making sure it's not just about Parkland.
--:-- David Hogg: It's not just about Sandy Hook or any community that goes through just mass shootings.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It's about communities that go through all forms of gun violence and not speaking for them, but making sure that people understand that they always have been in this conversation and they have to be part of the conversation.
--:-- David Hogg: And it can't just be about how do we stop gun violence inside of schools.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I was out there five years ago in D.C., and I don't think I've ever felt such a palpable potential for change at a protest like that.
--:-- David Hogg: And the list of accomplishments is long, but paradoxically, so is the list of mass shootings every year, already this year.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: How do you think of these two lists alongside each other?
--:-- David Hogg: It is depressing. I will admit that, obviously.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It is very hard and depressing to know that these things are continuing to happen.
--:-- David Hogg: But I think it also highlights the need for urgent federal action, not just in the form of President Biden taking as many actions as he can as an executive to enforce gun laws better, to make sure that ATF and other agencies have the resources that they need to enforce the laws that we have on the books better.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I mean, ATF is basically the size of my high school in terms of the number of people that work there.
--:-- David Hogg: And Representative Frost, I hear that you're getting ready to introduce your first piece of legislation.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Yeah, so we're releasing a piece of legislation that's bicameral, introduced in both the Senate and the House with Senator Chris Murphy, who I've known for a long time from my work going to the Sandy Hook vigils and everything.
--:-- David Hogg: And this is a piece of legislation that's pretty simple.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: What it does is it creates a federal office of gun violence prevention.
--:-- David Hogg: And this is really important for many different reasons.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Number one, the federal government does not have a coordinated approach to ending gun violence.
--:-- David Hogg: And so what this would do is have a coordinating office department that works with DHS, ATF, HHS, all these different agencies to provide a coordinated response to ending gun violence that's both preventative and reactionary, and looks at the root causes and provides data for members of Congress.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: So that way, most of the data and research that comes from this issue does not come from our government.
--:-- David Hogg: It comes from outside organizations, third-party organizations, nonprofits, and that's important work.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: But for an issue that takes 100 lives a day, for an issue where in this country right now, if you are under the age of 18 and you were to die, God forbid, the most likely reason would be because you were shot to death.
--:-- David Hogg: In this country right now, the leading cause of death for children is gun violence.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And so this would be a federal coordinated approach to ending gun violence, looking at the causes, providing real data after these horrible situations happen.
--:-- David Hogg: So that way members of Congress, state legislatures, municipal governments have real data from the government so that way they can act upon it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do you have any idea how this is going to land?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I think we have a really good opportunity to get to get this done, whether it's through Congress or through executive action, because the president can also create the office himself.
--:-- David Hogg: But Congress can also do it.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And so we're hoping that one of the two will end up happening.
--:-- David Hogg: But I'll tell you, I've had conversations with people from many different districts across the country, people from very rural areas to very urban areas.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And folks think this is a really good idea.
--:-- David Hogg: It's not this isn't about policy as it is about having an entity that is there that is working for the people to end gun violence.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And it also shows that the federal government is serious about ending this issue.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Have you had a conversation with the president yet about it?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: We've been talking with the president about it for a few years.
--:-- David Hogg: The movement has been.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And so really, this isn't like an idea I just woke up and had.
--:-- David Hogg: This has really been an ask from the movement for many years now.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And so you know we hoping that you know this is a next step right in getting an office of gun violence prevention
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That was Maxwell Frost and David Hogg the former is the youngest representative in Congress the latter is a founder of March for Our Lives and a senior at Harvard
--:-- Noelle King: And when we're back, these two members of Gen Z are going to tell us how they feel about the 80-year-old silent generation president.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is he that old?
--:-- Noelle King: He is.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Wait, did you? You wrote that he's 80.
--:-- Noelle King: Silent generation, I forgot.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Oh, my God.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You're listening to Today Explains.
--:-- Noelle King: This is, is it Today Explain or Chex Explains?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Explain death.
--:-- Noelle King: Explain death.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So, Maxwell, is this your first time doing ASMR?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Yes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Congressional ASMR. Yes.
--:-- Noelle King: Brought to you by... Congressional breathing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Regrettably, we are already talking about the 2024 presidential election in this country.
--:-- Noelle King: Oh, no.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You two both represent a certain cohort that we're interested in on this show.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: What else is on Gen Z's agenda?
--:-- David Hogg: This is an interesting question.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I get asked a lot. And I wonder why.
--:-- Noelle King: No, no. I don't think Gen Z cares about different values or issues than other Americans, right?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: You know, if you were to ask people of past generations about moments that were defining for their generation, no matter who they are, you hear about the moon landing, post 9-11, where the country came together.
--:-- David Hogg: For our generation, you ask them, you're going to hear Parkland, Pulse, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, death, death, trauma.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It really changes the way a generation thinks about the issues and the impatience it brings because we want – we're kind of confused.
--:-- David Hogg: Like why are we still dealing with these issues?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And we want to be a part of the solution.
--:-- Noelle King: We're not here to play the blame game.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: But I think it's – I think that changes the way we look at the issues.
--:-- David Hogg: And so what does Gen Z care about?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I mean, I think we care about the existential climate crisis, right, that we're seeing the effects of.
--:-- David Hogg: We care about ending gun violence because we see that young people are really at the front lines of this issue a lot of the time, especially when it comes to, yes, mass shootings, but also, unfortunately, what many folks call daily gun violence.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It's in a lot of our communities, especially black and brown communities that stem from underinvestment in our communities, poverty and economic status of a lot of our people.
--:-- David Hogg: And then you get to another issue when we talk about wages, health care, the standard of living.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: You know, I think the age of the single issue voter is kind of dying because young people really see things holistically.
--:-- David Hogg: They really care about everything because they know everything is connected.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And we also know from the polling that March for Our Lives has done and other organizations outside of us have done that gun violence is a leading issue for what animates us and makes us go out and vote for candidates.
--:-- David Hogg: And it wasn't just in 2018 that we saw record youth voter turnout.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And mind you, it wasn't 50-50 like it was for Bush and Gore for 18 to 29-year-olds.
--:-- David Hogg: It was very clearly in one direction, which I think is so important to highlight here.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: In the 2022 election, in your average congressional election, it was over plus 20 points for progressives for the 18 to 29-year-old demographic.
--:-- David Hogg: That means that we aren't canceling out our votes like we used to.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: We are very clearly voting for candidates that care about the issues that we care about.
--:-- Noelle King: In order to enact the agenda that you are talking about, a Democrat needs to be president of this country.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Right now, two of the biggest threats to that happening in 2024 come from your home state, right?
--:-- David Hogg: Former President Donald Trump.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Free state of Florida.
--:-- David Hogg: The free state of Florida.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Former President Donald Trump, a new emigre to your state.
--:-- David Hogg: And Governor Ron DeSantis, who, Maxwell, you have accused of engaging in fascism.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I'm just defining.
--:-- David Hogg: Number one, I think Ron DeSantis is the greatest threat to democracy in this country right now.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Bigger than Trump.
--:-- David Hogg: Oh, yeah, way bigger than Trump.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I think DeSantis is worse than Trump.
--:-- David Hogg: The reason why is I just encourage people to look at what's going on in Florida right now.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And I know a lot of it's – I've been thinking about why it hasn't been cutting nationally.
--:-- David Hogg: I think it's because people just chalk it up to that's Florida.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It's just a bunch of stuff going – it's just Florida.
--:-- David Hogg: It's messed up.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And then you see the memes and everything.
--:-- David Hogg: But it's real, right?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I mean, this governor took New College of Florida, small liberal arts college, less than a thousand students because it's more of a liberal arts college.
--:-- David Hogg: You know, they don't wear shoes, right?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Like it's a it's a beautiful campus.
--:-- David Hogg: It's a great place.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: He wants to make an example of them.
--:-- David Hogg: And so he's he's abused his power as governor, completely took out the board of trustees.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Put a bunch of conservative lapdogs on it.
--:-- David Hogg: They fired the president of the university, installed a new interim president who's the former Republican Speaker of the House who's not qualified to be the president of the university.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And changed the salary from $200,000 to $699,000 a year.
--:-- David Hogg: And then the state allocated $15 million in like a few days to this university for institutional changes.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Which they're going to use to make it more of a conservative university market to a lot more conservative areas to change the demographics of the demographic of the students.
--:-- David Hogg: I say that to say that is not something that governors do.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: He using his power to close down businesses attack teachers
--:-- David Hogg: I can tell you the amount of teachers and folks I spoken to in my district who are scared
--:-- Maxwell Frost: There this atmosphere of fear and not just in Orlando, but across the entire state because of what he's doing.
--:-- David Hogg: And he's effective in doing it.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And he's just trying things.
--:-- David Hogg: And if it gets ruled unconstitutional, he tries something different.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Imagine if someone like that had the federal government.
--:-- David Hogg: What does it say to you guys that this individual you define as a fascist is exceedingly popular?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: That a lot of old people are moving to Florida.
--:-- David Hogg: That's what it says to me.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Yeah.
--:-- David Hogg: And also, though, like, yeah, when you say popular, I mean, numbers wise, what are you talking about in the state of Florida?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Right.
--:-- David Hogg: And we have to also realize that a lot of these polls poll likely voters, so not the entire population of a state.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I'm not saying, oh, no, he's not super popular in the state of Florida.
--:-- David Hogg: But there's a difference, again, between policy and politics.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And when you have enough money and, you know, when there's voids and democratic organizing in a state, you're able to shift the narrative, even though most people would hear open care.
--:-- David Hogg: Most people would hear about the permalist carry and over 70 percent of Florida and say, no, that's a stupid idea.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: We don't want that.
--:-- David Hogg: But then a lot of the same people would say, yes, I want to vote for DeSantis.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: It's because he's effective at separating those two things.
--:-- David Hogg: And what's happening is Republicans are doubling down on their efforts to fuel voter suppression, to change who can vote, to change who the voters are instead of changing their policies.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And it's going to backfire on them eventually when those demographics that they're relying on die out because they are inherently older and our generation comes in to start replacing them.
--:-- David Hogg: But Joe Biden does not represent per se your generation.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: If Joe Biden runs again, this is a man who's in his 80s, right?
--:-- David Hogg: We're talking about age.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: We're talking about young progressives.
--:-- David Hogg: Joe Biden is not a young progressive and young progressives have argued he's not even that progressive.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: We're looking at a situation in which potentially the Democratic nominee is in his 80s.
--:-- David Hogg: You are both in your 20s.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Should Joe Biden run again or is it time for someone new, someone younger?
--:-- David Hogg: I always have the same answer to this because I truly believe this.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Look, if the president wants to run again, which it seems like he does, I'm going to support him.
--:-- David Hogg: You know, when we talk about the word like what is progressive?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: I don't know.
--:-- David Hogg: Everyone has a different definition.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: You know what I mean?
--:-- David Hogg: But like the president is the most progressive president we've had probably since FDR.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Do I agree with him on everything? No.
--:-- David Hogg: Like I just said, I worked for Bernie Sanders in the primary, right?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: You know, definitely to the left of the president.
--:-- David Hogg: But I'm very pleasantly surprised.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And when you talk with folks, a lot of people agree with that.
--:-- David Hogg: You know, you look at the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act, the most money our country has ever dedicated to fighting the climate crisis.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Is it enough? No, no, it's not.
--:-- David Hogg: You've probably just seen the new report that has even more staggering and alarming numbers that we have to cut emissions immediately so that way we can have a livable planet for future generations and for ourselves.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: You know but you know the president on gun violence he just took this executive action on gun violence he signed until all the safer communities act bipartisan safer communities act is it everything that we need in gun violence no but it's going to save lives and behind every number there's a human there's a person and so every bit of legislation that we can get we're going to take
--:-- David Hogg: But you look at something like build back better the fact that the president put that afford, you know, free universal tuition, free two year college for all of our people, free child care for all of our people, like everything that was in Build Back Better, really, I think if we would have passed it, Democrats would still have the House right now.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And so I think we've seen a president that's really surprised me as a young progressive.
--:-- David Hogg: Do we agree on everything? No, but I'll support him.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: But do you think he could be pushing harder when you see President Biden approving new oil drilling in Alaska?
--:-- David Hogg: Do you feel like you can come out and speak out against him? Or is the race in 2024 too fragile to risk speaking ill of the sitting president?
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Yeah, I mean, I think everything's a bit of a balance.
--:-- David Hogg: I mean, I spoke out against the Willow project.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: You know, a lot of times in life, you have to hold multiple truths, especially in politics.
--:-- David Hogg: The president who signed the law, the most money ever going to defeat the climate crisis, also approved a drilling project, which is, you know, going to be really bad for our environment.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Both things are true at the same time in our reality.
--:-- David Hogg: And it's just something we have to hold.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: And now we figure out how do we move forward?
--:-- David Hogg: Does it mean we don't work to hold them accountable? No, it does not mean that.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Again, I talked about it and I talked about the fact that part of the reason Gen Z turned out is because of the president's, you know, bold vision on the climate crisis and ending it.
--:-- David Hogg: And so I was honest about that.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: But that's not to the detriment of 2024.
--:-- David Hogg: It's to help us.
--:-- Maxwell Frost: Because in order for us to win, we're going to continue to, you know, we need to turn out young people.
--:-- David Hogg: And the way you turn out young people and really any, you know, marginalized community that never votes is by showing them that government works for them by legislating in a way and fighting for them that shows them that, wow, my vote actually matters.
--:-- Noelle King: Today's show was produced by Siona Petros and Victoria Chamberlain.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It was fact-checked by Laura Bullard, mixed by Paul Robert Mounsey and edited by Amina Al-Sadi.
--:-- Noelle King: Noelle, great to hang with you. You want to do it again sometime?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sure, yeah, let's do it again.
