--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Saks Fifth Avenue. Fall is here. Might be time to find some nice new pieces you can wear again and again. With Saks Fifth Avenue, it can be a breeze to shop for your personal style, like maybe a relaxed Prada blazer or Gucci loafers that are great for both work and the weekend.
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--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Ramos-Furum, and I'm here with our summer camp counselor, Noam Hassenfeld, because it's Saturday, and that means it's the final day of our Today Explained to Kids summer series.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: Yeah, we're going back to the island, but just letting you know, it's going to be a little different this time. Oh? Yeah, this week has been really tough. Yeah, I know. That's why I'm ready to have some fun. I got my towel. I got my bucket. Yeah, put them away, Sean.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: Oh. We are going to talk about something a little more serious on this week's show. It's an issue that's been with us all summer and obviously way longer, racial justice. Yeah, important stuff. And we've been talking about it a lot this week, again, because of Jacob Blake and Friday's March on Washington.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: So we wanted to do an episode on this summer of protest that we've had. Okay. And what's the plan? How do you want to explain this summer of protests to kids?
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: Well, we got a note from this amazing 11-year-old named Jolia who wrote this whole speech on Black Lives Matter. So the two of us went on a little journey to the island, and that's what you're going to hear today on the show.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: We made three stops. We learned that racism is a system, that its roots go way, way back, and that we can use all that history and knowledge to better understand it in the world around us today.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: All right, and this is safe for all kids to listen to? Yeah, it is. We talk about serious issues, but I think this is safe and important stuff for kids to hear.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: All right, let's do it. Jolia, welcome to the island of Explain. This place is awesome.
--:-- Jolia: I figured that if we're exploring the idea of racism in America, we should start at the 123 Forest. It's just over there. It's got the history tree, the knowledge branches, some dictionary trees.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: Great. Can you tell me a little bit about yourself as we walk over there?
--:-- Jolia: My name is Jolia. I'm 11 years old. I'm from San Leandro, California. and my favorite movie is Bad Boys 2.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: Nice. My favorite movie is Lord of the Rings and my favorite tree is right over here. The Merriam-Webbs tree.
--:-- Jolia: Yeah, I see it. A lot of webs? Yeah, the webs tree is a dictionary tree and all those shiny webs are actually definitions of words.
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: Check it out. Yeah, I can see them, kind of. The words have just grown together. Yeah, there's tons of ways these words are all connected to each other.
--:-- Jolia: And wait, do you hear something? Um, who's up in the tree?
--:-- Noam Hassenfeld: What? That's weird. Who are you and what are you doing up there?
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: Oh, hey there. I'm Kennedy Mitchum. I'm up here working to fix up the Merriam-Web street. It had a flawed definition of the word racism.
--:-- Jolia: Oh, right. I think I saw you in the news, actually. you were like a week out of college and you were trying to change this definition.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: But I didn't know you could change a definition.
--:-- Jolia: What was wrong with the definition that they had of racism?
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: The old definition didn't encompass everything that racism really detailed. I used to have a lot of different conversations with people about how I've personally experienced it and been affected by it.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: I would try to tell them, look, it's really baked into our society. It shows up and it hurts people of color in many different ways.
--:-- Jolia: When I would talk about my experiences going to a predominantly white school where I was the only black girl in class, a lot of people would reach out to me and say, no, that's not racism.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: And then they would point to this definition.
--:-- Jolia: Oh, the old definition you've been trying to fix? I see it here dangling.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: Racism is a belief. Yo, what? Yeah, I totally forgot to mention. The webs and all the other things in this forest read themselves.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: Racism is a belief. That race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities. and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
--:-- Jolia: Definitely sounds like a dictionary, but what's wrong with that definition of racism?
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: It's saying that racism is more of a personal prejudice, that racism is believing that a black person isn't as good as a white person, or they're not as smart, or they're not as pretty, when it's a lot more than that.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: There are a lot of systems that are in place to keep people of color behind in a lot of different ways. It's more than just, I just don't like black people because. It's not just personal prejudice, it's systemic.
--:-- Jolia: Julia, it sounds like you know what that is. Yes, I do know what systemic racism is.
--:-- Jolia: One neighborhood that is predominantly white could have more money going into their homes, but a minority neighborhood could have less money going into their homes, schools, and they stay that way because they don't have as much.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: Yeah, systemic racism is when racism is part of the fabric of society There are problems with racism in our neighborhoods like you said or schools in police departments
--:-- Jolia: Yeah, I think that a lot of people need to hear that and understand that it's a lot more than, you know, disliking someone. It's a history. It's everywhere in our society.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: So how did you fix the definition of racism?
--:-- Jolia: I decided to reach out to the dictionary Merriam-Webster so they could fix this.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: How did they respond?
--:-- Jolia: They agreed and said that I was right. Oh, no way. They kept the part that described prejudice and then included the systemic elements and the systems that are put in place to keep different races and backgrounds behind.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: It sounds like a lot of work. Yeah, I don't know. I need to go to bed.
--:-- Jolia: Well, I really appreciate the work you're doing here, helping people understand systemic racism. But how did it all get this way in the first place?
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: You know, you might want to talk to Fabiola Sinius. She's a reporter who walks people through this kind of stuff all the time.
--:-- Jolia: I think she's digging through the book fruits on the history tree right now. You should be able to catch her.
--:-- Kennedy Mitchum: Oh, great idea. Kennedy, it was really great to talk to you. Best of luck fixing the dictionary.
--:-- Jolia: Okay, Jolia, it's this way. Duck past these metaphors over here. Don't go chasing waterfalls. You are my fire, my wind. You are my sunshine. My only sunshine.
--:-- Jolia: I am dead. And Jolia, you heard Kennedy talk about book fruits, right?
--:-- Jolia: Yeah. What are those again?
--:-- Jolia: So they're exactly what they sound like. The history tree grows books. And when you touch them, they tell you stories.
--:-- Jolia: Oh, you can see the tree now. Yeah. The books are hanging on the tree kind of like lemons do on their tree.
--:-- Jolia: Yeah, exactly. Hold on. Is Fabiola even here?
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: Hello? Hey, Noah. Hey, Fabiola. How's it going?
--:-- Jolia: Good. Sorry. Give me a minute to disentangle myself from these history tree vines.
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: Oh, and I brought someone with me. Hi. I'm Jolie. Oh, hey. What brings you to the history tree today?
--:-- Jolia: Well, see, Kennedy recommended to come to you so you could tell us more about how systemic racism is just baked into society. Yeah, like how did it get baked into society in the first place? Where did it come from?
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: Well, systemic racism definitely goes back to slavery. But a lot of people, when they hear slavery or learn about slavery, they just say, it's so long ago. How could it possibly be connected to what's happening today?
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: And so that's why I'm here clearing up all of these vines, because it's almost like these parts of history have been covered.
--:-- Jolia: Let me grab a book for you. Even after slavery ended, Black people lived under constant threat of violence. And states put different rules into place to keep them from voting, which sometimes still even happens today. And it's not just voting, it's everything.
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: Can you actually help me pull back some of these vines? Here, let me grab that vine over here.
--:-- Jolia: Ow! Wow, there are a lot of vines covering up this part of the tree.
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: They said history didn't hurt what was hurting me. All right, okay. So here are some book fruits on things that kids don't always learn about in school.
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: For much of the last century, a lot of banks wouldn't give black people loans. It was really hard for black people to make money, own homes, or live in nicer neighborhoods.
--:-- Jolia: Yeah, and all of this stuff built up over time. Black parents had less money to pass on to their kids.
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: So if you look around and see a lot of black neighborhoods and schools that are worse off than white ones, it's not a coincidence. It's like playing a game when the rules aren't fair.
--:-- Jolia: You know, Fabiola, this is exactly the kind of systemic racism that Kennedy was talking about.
--:-- Fabiola Sinius: Yeah, and a lot of this history is hidden. And if we don't do the work of uncovering this history and pulling back all of these vines to really see that history, it's so easy for us to ignore systemic racism.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Oh, hey, Morgan Givens, my favorite storyteller. How long have you been here?
--:-- Jolia: Uh, man, a while. But I was just out here collecting wood for my workshop. Then I heard y'all talking about systemic racism. And I'm actually working on something connected to all of that right now.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Oh, what are you working on?
--:-- Jolia: Oh, man, it's just this really cool tool I got that helps you actually use all of this knowledge, like the history Fabiola shared and all that vocabulary stuff Kennedy's helping to build, too. It just kind of brings everything together.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Thing is, though, you kind of have to see it. If you come to my workshop, I can show you.
--:-- Jolia: Sounds cool to me. OK, well, thanks so much for teaching us so much history, Fabiola. All right. I'm going to get back to clearing these vines.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Yo, how about you get some of this wood and help me carry it home? I'll trade you a sneak peek at my newest invention.
--:-- Jolia: All right. Seems fair to me. I guess we'll check it out after the break.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Built Rewards. These days, it seems like everybody has a rewards program. You swipe your card and you get one cent on the hundred dollars. But with your rent, frequently you just pay month after month. You never get anything from it other than that roof over your head.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Not anymore, says Built Rewards. Built Rewards says it lets you earn points on your rent. By paying rent through Built, they say you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, perhaps a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and so much more.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Your home isn't just where you sleep, it's your community, and Bilt wants you to go out and do things in the community. You can eat at your favorite local restaurants, then earn more points. You can get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios. You can enjoy exclusive experiences just for Bilt members every month.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When you're ready to travel, they say Bilt points can be converted to miles or hotel points all around the world. You can earn points on rent and around your neighborhood wherever you call home by joining Bilt.com slash Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That J dot com slash explained.
--:-- Jolia: Julia, isn't this path through the 1-2-3-4 is pretty beautiful? Wait, does that tree have fur?
--:-- Morgan Givens: Well, it is a fur tree, but not that kind of fur. It's really just a metaphor for making metaphors.
--:-- Jolia: I think this is getting a little too meta. Yeah, it's really just a way for the tree to make you feel smarter than you are.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Anyway, Morgan, you said you've been learning a bunch about systemic racism recently. What did you learn?
--:-- Jolia: I mean, I learned a lot of things that can be kind of hard to see unless you're entrenched in them.
--:-- Morgan Givens: I didn't really have the language to describe what I was seeing, but it was systemic racism. At least that's how I started feeling when I used to be a cop in Washington, D.C.
--:-- Jolia: You were a cop?
--:-- Morgan Givens: Yes. You have no idea how often I get that reaction.
--:-- Jolia: I thought that maybe I could figure out how to help fix things. But the longer I was there, the more I realized that the systemic racism in policing, the same racism rooted in history, was impossible to escape.
--:-- Morgan Givens: And I thought maybe there could be a way to help others avoid the same trap I fell into.
--:-- Jolia: You know what? How about I just show you? This is my workshop. Pretty dope, right?
--:-- Morgan Givens: Wow, this is really cool. It's shaped like an eye. Yeah, it's the perfect place to see things clearly. As you'll see.
--:-- Jolia: Come on in. Y'all can just dump that wood in the corner. I'll sort it out later.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Cause you gotta see this. Here's the pair I was looking for. My brand new eyeglasses. They're shaped just like the regular glasses we have not on the island.
--:-- Morgan Givens: On the island, only this time the lens is a little different. Yeah, that's right. They got those special see some systemic racism lenses. And they're made out of the same wood from the history tree.
--:-- Jolia: So how do they help you see systemic racism?
--:-- Morgan Givens: Here, maybe I could show you. Watch what happens when I turn on the news.
--:-- Morgan Givens: The Minnesota police officer who fatally shot Philando Castile during a traffic stop last year has been found not guilty of manslaughter.
--:-- Jolia: So with the glasses off, when I see a story about police being violent, it can look like maybe they were just doing their job. Or maybe they were in fear for their life or any number of excuses they give, especially the one that comes up all the time.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Because of a few bad apples, police officers are being disrespected all over our nation. 99.9% of our law enforcement officers are great Americans. But you know what? There are some bad apples that are giving law enforcement a terrible name.
--:-- Jolia: If they're allowed to do their job, they'll do a great job. And you always have a bad apple no matter where you go. You have bad apples. I used to be a police officer. I can tell you.
--:-- Morgan Givens: This ain't about just one or two bad people or one or two bad apples. This is the whole system. And with the glasses on, it's easier to see the history that led us right here.
--:-- Morgan Givens: And it makes it easier for us to understand what we're actually up against. To know the how and why behind how black people are targeted by police because of the racism in our society.
--:-- Jolia: It's not so much bad apples. It's that the whole bag is on fire.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Here, put these glasses on. They're not protesting against a few bad apples in police departments, but a system of policing that, wittingly or unwittingly, targets people of color and they say needs to be completely overhauled.
--:-- Jolia: Look, not to knock myself, because I think I'm pretty fly, but anybody can make these glasses. They're not so special, it can't be done outside of my workshop.
--:-- Morgan Givens: And the truth isn't so hard to see if we look for it, and if we make sure to think carefully about how we frame things.
--:-- Jolia: So what do you think about all of this, Joliet?
--:-- Morgan Givens: The people who don't have these glasses, they do see it. Even though they don't got the glasses, they do see it. The thing is, they ignore it.
--:-- Jolia: I know. It's kind of sad how that happens, because whether you've got the glasses or not, you've got to be open to seeing it.
--:-- Morgan Givens: I mean, you do sound like you know a lot about this stuff, though. So, you got any questions for me?
--:-- Jolia: For you, like, what did you see the most when you were working as a police officer?
--:-- Morgan Givens: Whew, how much time do we have? I guess one of the things I noticed quite early was how quickly people I came into the department with were starting to be changed by the department.
--:-- Morgan Givens: I would see a lot of my peers make excuses for when police shot and killed someone.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Yeah. When the George Floyd situation happened, I saw so many people quickly going to the fact that back in like 2007, this man went to jail.
--:-- Morgan Givens: I'm not saying that he's never done anything wrong. What I'm saying is he still didn't deserve to die. Yeah. His daughter no longer has a father.
--:-- Morgan Givens: I guess someone has to teach us things that help us grow. But Julia, how did you get to the point where you were like, this is a problem and I need to say something too?
--:-- Jolia: Because that's a thing that everyone does.
--:-- Morgan Givens: Well, my parents have always been open with speaking about police brutality because, well, I've had older cousins.
--:-- Morgan Givens: So when the George Floyd situation happened and I saw that, I'm like, I'm done because this has been happening for so long.
--:-- Morgan Givens: The only difference is now there's social media and people are recording. But the thing is, we've been protesting for so many years that this is nothing new.
--:-- Morgan Givens: And the fact that we're still not being completely heard is terrible.
--:-- Jolia: Who do you think needs to really hear, though? Sometimes I feel like when we're talking, we're like talking to the people who already get it.
--:-- Morgan Givens: But like, who would you say we need to take this seriously, as seriously as you have been taking it and your family and so many others?
--:-- Jolia: People of higher power the president people who work in Congress or people that are part of the judicial part
--:-- Morgan Givens: We need people like them to be able to listen
--:-- Jolia: Because as much as we can post on social media please arrest these people they done something wrong it still not up to us
--:-- Morgan Givens: Well, maybe what we need to do is boost more voices like yours, Julia.
--:-- Jolia: Because a lot of folks don't know how to talk about this stuff nearly as well as you do.
--:-- Morgan Givens: You know, speaking of boosting Julia's voice, Julia, I first heard about you when your teacher wrote to me and included a speech you wrote about Black Lives Matter, which you gave at your school graduation.
--:-- Jolia: What made you sit down and write a speech?
--:-- Morgan Givens: I got on my computer and I was like, you know what? I'm going to write something. Like, that's what I'm going to do today.
--:-- Jolia: And I did. And then I sent it to my teacher, Miss Rachel. And I got back from her immediately.
--:-- Morgan Givens: I bet so. She said she wanted to send it to the teacher so that happened and then I heard from her again she was sending it to the principal heard from her again the principal was sending it to the uh the superintendent people and then heard from her again and it was going to you guys people gotta hear this that's what speeches are for
--:-- Jolia: I didn't respond to her for a good 20 minutes because I kind of just sat here going I didn't know how to respond your voice matters yo
--:-- Morgan Givens: Do you think you could read us some of the speech now?
--:-- Jolia: Um, sure. Okay, the floor is yours. My skin is not a threat. It's funny how the world has different time zones. How it could be Saturday on this side of the world and Friday somewhere else.
--:-- Jolia: Yet somehow the United States of America is stuck in 1920. That was a hundred years ago. Yet we're still fighting for our lives, for a place here.
--:-- Jolia: What did we ever do to make them hate us so much? They love our culture. They love to steal our braids, the way we talk, anything we call ours.
--:-- Jolia: But when it's that one white bad cop And that one innocent black person, that black person fears for their life.
--:-- Jolia: I used to be scared when my older cousins would leave at night. I was scared that one day they would stay out too late and never come back.
--:-- Jolia: This is the world we live in. See, when I was younger, teachers used to ask kids what they wanted to be when they grew up. Some kids said famous. I was one of those kids.
--:-- Jolia: But now I changed my answer. The thing I want to be when I grow up is alive.
--:-- Jolia: How do I know that I'm going to make it out alive if I'm suspicious doing nothing? If I'm suspicious when I'm at my own house sleeping in my own bed?
--:-- Jolia: Am I scary if I have a black hoodie? Am I scary if I wear a backpack? Am I scary if I do nothing? Am I scary?
--:-- Jolia: Does my dad scare you? Does my mom scare you? Does my auntie scare you? Because let me tell you something. We are not scary.
--:-- Jolia: Ahmaud Arbery. Rihanna Taylor. George Floyd. Tamir Rice. Michael Brown. Eric Garner. John Crawford III. Ezell Ford. Dante Parker. Tanisha Anderson. Akai Gurley. Romaine Bridget. Jerome Marie. Tony Robinson. Philip White. Eric Harris. Walter Scott. Freddie Gray. Sean Rick. Evan DeMarco Taylor, Aaron McCree, Miles Hall, Jamie Johnson, Antoine Rose, Stephon Clark, Jacob Blake.
--:-- Jolia: Say their names. You will earn my respect when I don't have to fear for my life or anybody else's. Until then, my respect will not come for free. Black Lives Matter.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Jolia Bassett from San Leandro, California. She's 11 years old and just started sixth grade online.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is the final episode of our Today Explained to Kids summer series. It was produced by Noam Hassenfeld, Bird Pinkerton, and Morgan Givens.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Jillian Weinberger edited the episode, Afim Shapiro engineered, and Vox's editorial director of podcasts, Liz Kelly Nelson, helped a bunch too.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Special thanks to Amanda Northrup, Rachel Janini, Salim Hugh Penny, Lauren Katz, Paul Garrity, Rachel Israel, and my brother from another mother, Srinivas Ramamurti.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Most thanks of all to the kids who've been a part of this entire series we've done, 35 of them. and all.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you want to continue the conversation on systemic racism with your kids or with your grownups, head over to vox.com slash today explained kids for a discussion guide on implicit bias and the role it plays in our communities.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Again, vox.com slash today explained kids.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you're looking for even more kids stuff, the Vox video team is making a whole week of videos just for kids. One of them is actually an animated video of Joliet's speech. It'll be out on Monday.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can find those videos at youtube.com slash Vox.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And finally, if you liked hearing from our storyteller Morgan Givens today, check out his kids' fiction podcast. It's called Flyest Fables.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The Today Explained team includes Bridget McCarthy, Halima Shah, Muj Zaydi, and Amina Al-Sadi.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We had extra help this week from Paul Mounsey. Cecilia Lay checks our facts and the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder does music.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Today Explained is a part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.
