--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from BetterHelp. Let me tell you a true story. Last weekend, I got an email from a listener who wanted to discuss their problems with me. And I said, look, I don't think that this is about me personally. At least I hope it's not. Why don't you try BetterHelp.com slash Explained? Absolute truth. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. The one is not me, guys. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash explain. That's BetterHelp.com slash explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Each Apple product, like the iPhone, is thoughtfully designed by skilled designers. The titanium Apple Card is no different. It's laser etched, has no numbers, and it earns you daily cash on everything you buy, including 3% back on everything at Apple. Apply for Apple Card on your iPhone in minutes. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Surely by this point, you've met Chaz. These people have taken over a vast part, a major part, a very good part of a place called Seattle. Seattle's big stuff. That's a major city. And we have a governor who's a stiff and we have a mayor who said, oh, this is going to be a love fest. And by the way, these are violent people that took it over. Fox News can't get enough of Chaz. Armed vigilantes are now setting up checkpoints into and out of the so-called autonomous zone. Buildings inside the zone are getting vandalized. Business owners, there are reports that they're being extorted. Fights are breaking out. People are being assaulted. And an entire police precinct totally abandoned and taken over by the anarchists. Six blocks of pure anarchists. And even worse, Chaz is becoming a total tourist attraction. But it's confusing because you've got the president and his buddy Hannity saying it's violent and dangerous, while a buddy of mine in Seattle went this weekend. He said it was a straight-up farmer's market threat level out there.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We here at Today Explained, Oh, It's You, listener, to find out what exactly is going on inside the Chaz. So we reached out to Casey Martin, who's been spending a ton of time there for KUOW Public Radio in Seattle.
--:-- Casey Martin: As you approach this area, the first thing you notice is you can hear it. You can hear just hundreds of people packed into an area. At all times of the day, there's always music, whether it's coming out of a boombox or often a live band just set up in the middle of the street. The streets have been completely barricaded, kind of just misfit barricades. Some are leftover barricades from when the police were still there. Some are some fencing that people have just dropped off there. And it's been spray painted, a lot of art, a lot of protest signs and there's usually people standing right in front of the barricades kind of just letting you know you've entered this area.
--:-- Casey Martin: So as you walk in, right in the center of this major intersection, just hundreds of people at all times of the day. It can be well over a thousand people during the afternoon and people are just milling about. There's a lot of food stands, there's these supply tents and the entire intersection is just swarmed with people walking around pretty much non-stop. This area, there is this big park. And in the big park, a lot of people are there to hang out. They're there to maybe have a beer, maybe to have a picnic. They're getting together with their friends. There's a basketball game that goes on every single night. There's a dance contest usually. The other night, there was a foot race.
--:-- Casey Martin: So there are families over there there are people walking their dogs hanging out and that is a clear area where people are just there to be there they're part of the protest that says we are here to take up this space there's a completely separate group of people and it's it's visually very very clear that is standing away from the park they're standing in front of this east precinct police building that the police left a week ago and that's where more of the black lives matter activists. They'll meet. That's where they'll have speeches.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Who is showing up here Is it diverse Is there a major difference between these two groups the ones who are clearly Black Lives Matter and the ones who are looking to party and drink?
--:-- Casey Martin: It's definitely cohesive. I will say that there are more Black activists who are encouraging people to not just sit around and party and drink, but to actually go stand in front of the precinct, to stand as an ally for the black community, to not just be there to party. By and large, it's young people. We're talking people from teenagers up to in their 20s and 30s. During the middle of the day, it's whole families. You'll see kids in strollers. People are walking their dogs. That's where it starts to feel like a street fair vibe, a bit of a block party. During the middle of the day, there's hot dog stands. Ben and Jerry's had a stand there the other day.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Casey, what is the origin story of the Chaz? In just all the major cities and all across the U.S. that we've been seeing these protests following the police murder of George Floyd, there was a huge protest in downtown Seattle. A ton of activists came together. The very first night, this was weeks ago, there were thousands of people in downtown Seattle. This is away from the Chaz, away from the Capitol Hill area. Late into the night, Washington state troopers had to be sent in. The National Guard was also called in with armored vehicles. And at the end of this night, all these activists needed some place to go. They needed some place to march. So they decided to march to the East Police Precinct up on Capitol Hill.
--:-- Casey Martin: So the very next morning, they marched up there. The police were already waiting for them. They had created a police barrier. And for well over a week, That was the standoff. There were thousands of people just facing a line of police and behind the police. And then last Monday, the city decided to pull back police. They decided to completely evacuate police from that building. And around 6 o'clock, everybody left. All the cops packed up. They took all their things out of the building. And then after, again, days of standing and facing the protesters, they were gone. And then the only people left in Capitol Hill, the only people left at the protest were the people, were the activists.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think a lot of people might be surprised to hear how the police responded, considering how they've been responding in other cities across the country. How exactly did the city of Seattle decide to just pull the police out of the precinct? This was a contentious decision, and the decision was made after days of pepper spray and flashbang grenades. And the chief of police, Carmen Best, she grew up at the East Precinct. That's where she got her start. And she put out a video that she released to police officers, the rank and file, saying that this wasn't her decision. You fought for days to protect it. I asked you to stand on that line day in and day out, to be pelted with projectiles, to be screamed at, threatened, and in some cases hurt.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Then to have a change of course nearly two weeks in, it seems like an insult to you and our community. Ultimately, the city had other plans for the building and relented to severe public pressure. The city maintains that they didn't abandon it. They're not fond of that word. They just said that they vacated the building. But if you talk to police, they feel like they gave up, that the protesters won, that they left the precinct, and it's not exactly clear when they're going to be able to go back.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And is that why it's called CHAZ, the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone? What's it? Autonomous of the city of Seattle, Washington State, the United States of America? They would say autonomous of law enforcement. They showed up to protest police brutality. The police left. They were the only ones still there. And a lot of protesters at the time said, hey, look, we are autonomous. We do not need the police. We can police ourselves. We can police our own community.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ladies and gentlemen, say hello to the latest addition to the global family of nations, the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, formerly known as downtown Seattle. Black Lives Matter activists said just recently, a day or two ago, said, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because this is not an autonomous zone. We're not trying to secede from the United States, and we have no means to try to detract from the conditions of this nation works We need the conditions of our rights to be held and we are expressing our legal application of these rights.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And so they decided to rebrand it as the Capitol Hill Organized Protest or CHOP. Wait, so it's not Chaz, it's CHOP? The name was changed from Chaz to CHOP. Dang, apologies to the CHOP for all the Chaz. And there's a bit of confusion because some people, I've seen it on signs, are calling it the Occupied Protest. Other people say, no, no, no, no, we're not occupying. This is an organized protest. So the name fluctuates a lot. Okay, well, since we've been calling it Chaz this whole time, let's just stick with Chaz. Absolutely. But of course, acknowledge and respect the chop. Yes, yes. Great.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I've been to Capitol Hill. It's like right in the middle of the city, right? It's got lots of restaurants and bars that people love, though I guess we do have a pandemic right now. How do people feel about one of the city's, you know, prized neighborhoods being reclaimed by protesters?
--:-- Casey Martin: A lot of people love it. A lot of people say that this is a clear win. They say, look, there's no more tear gas. There's no more flashbang grenades. The police are gone. People are able to hang out and do their thing peacefully. And then there's a contingent of people who actually live inside, who actually are the, you know, rent the apartments inside this area. And they are not so crazy about what's happened. The word that I keep hearing is annexation. People said that they were annexed into this neighborhood. They did not sign up to be part of this. They did not ask to be part of this community, but here they are nonetheless.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I spoke to this one couple that they live right next door on the ground floor, right next to this police precinct. So they were there for all the tear gas and all the flashbangs. Everything was right outside their front window. And they were really, really excited when the police left. They were very relieved that the violence would be stopping. But now we're going on a week of a lot of people who are not from the neighborhood, just kind of staying there all night in their alley right outside their window, playing music. Often people will come and throw a glass bottle at the building and smash it. They support the Black Lives Matter protest during the day. But again, they're going on at least two weeks of very, very little sleep. First, it was clashes with the police, and now it's all night partying. So a lot of support for the Black Lives Matter political movement, less support for the all-night partying.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Where all this chop business is going after the break. Support for Today Explained comes from Chime. Nobody likes fees and complicated banking, says Chime. And Chime gets that, says Chime. Chime is a financial technology company that says they understand that every dollar counts. So when you set up direct deposit through Chime, they say you get access to fee-free features, such as free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early, with direct deposit, so much more. Chime says with qualifying direct deposits, you can be eligible for free overdraft up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals. Plus, they say you don't need to worry about monthly fees or maintenance fees. You can work on your financial goals through Chime today. You can open an account in two minutes at Chime.com slash explained. That's Chime.com slash explained. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bank or Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. These apply at out-of-network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. News and World Report 2023. Time checking account required. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start? Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin? Or what that clunking sound from your dryer is? With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top-rated pros, see price estimates, and read reviews all on the app. Download today. It's Today Explained. I'm Sean Ramos for him. It's Chaz. It's Chop.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Casey, what's going to come of it? Well, first of all, none of the protesters you talk to say they plan on leaving anytime soon. They say, we came here with a list of demands. We're not going to leave until these demands are met. Defund the SPD, slash the SPD budget in half, and redirect those funding to health and human services, and don't prosecute the arrested protesters. Those are my three demands in our coalition, but I love all the demands that we've all collectively raised here tonight. Many different demands with so many different people there but a lot of people are calling for the chief of police to step down also the mayor to resign as well. They also want to see that something happened to this East Precinct. Again they have been there for multiple weeks. They feel that they fought for this building and they don't just want to give it up easily.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The other side of things is that the Seattle police chief, Carmen Best, said, Yeah, we're going to evaluate and see what the viability is of bringing officers in, but certainly there's no plan to do that at this moment. It's not entirely clear if they show up that it won't just result in the exact same standoff that we saw just a week ago. I mean, if they need police in there, why did they pull out the police? That is still so unclear. When police were in the area, that's where we saw the clashes. That's where we saw the skirmishes break out with the pepper spray and the tear gas. And since then, there hasn't been any of that. And the mayor has said... The police will be policing in there. I want to be very clear on that. Our chief of police was in there assessing today. We take public safety very seriously. We met with businesses and residents today. We don't have to sacrifice public safety for First Amendment rights. Both can exist, and we'll make sure that both exist in Seattle.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Is there clear leadership in Chaz, or is it decentralized and amorphous?
--:-- Casey Martin: Definitely decentralized. I think that whoever brings the loudest PA system is the leader for the day. That is how it's been going. If a band shows up on one corner and they're really loud, well, that's where everybody congregates. That's where everybody goes. And then the band that was playing some music, the lead singer, will grab the mic, and then he'll start talking about Black Lives Matter and defunding the police. And then he'll just go back to jamming.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So Black Lives Matter, Seattle, King County, they're an official group. They've been showing up, and they've had a few speakers, and they've led a couple of marches. But they're not there every single day, and they're certainly not trying to control the single message coming out of this protest. So that's been one of the frustrations, both with the city trying to talk with leaders and also with if you go and talk to the protesters around Capitol Hill in the Chaz, they'll say, yeah, there is no leader. There is no singular group that's kind of directing things. And it's unclear a week after they've been there of what happens next and who's calling the shots.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It sounds sort of reminiscent of the Occupy movement. Absolutely. There are people who say that this is why they're there, that taking up this space, reclaiming this space is why they are there. There are entire food tents and not just small little granola bars. They are making fresh food every day, giving it out for free to volunteers. Now there are entire medic stations. There are these tiny little mash field hospitals on either end of the Chaz. Respect the pandemic. Wear a mask. Non-negotiable.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There are at least two dozen porta-potties. There are hand-washing stations. People have grown roots. People are there for the long term. And again, they have no reason to leave until they see some sort of change in policing or in downtown city leadership. And they feel that if they just leave now, if they pack up the tents, if they pack up the medic stations, then what was all the fighting for? What was the tear gas for if they don't accomplish something? And a lot of people don't want to leave just after having a week-long block party. They want to see something more substantial than a lot of spray paint and a lot of protest art.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I saw that the mayor visited recently. She seemed supportive. Did anything come of that?
--:-- Casey Martin: The mayor has said she's more than willing to sit down with leaders of the activists. Again, there's just not clear leaders. So both chief of police, she was just on talking about it's been difficult for them to try to meet these demands because they're not always talking to just one single party or one single group. The mayor has said they've talked about things about showing police officers badge numbers. They've talked about using different kinds of crowd dispersal. So they're not using pepper spray or tear gas. But she has voice that she wants to talk to organizers so that they can have some sort of peaceful conclusion with all this.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Maybe the president should visit too. It sounds like this protest is far less of a threat than how it's being portrayed right now on Fox News.
--:-- Casey Martin: I think that as Chaz gets more national media, people see that this isn't an armed anarchist takeover, an Antifa takeover of a very peaceful area. If they see that there are families and there are dogs and there are hot dog stands, I think that you might see people be a little bit more attracted to the idea that, well, if Seattle could do it, we could do it here.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Casey Martin is a reporter at KUOW Public Radio in Seattle. You can hear his work at KUOW.org and find more of his coverage of CHOP on Twitter at CaseyWorks. Thank you.
