--:-- [Up First theme music plays]
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Welcome to Up First. I'm Steve Inskeep.
--:-- Michelle Martin: And I'm Michelle Martin.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Today, we're talking about the presidential campaign. Vice President Kamala Harris sat down with CNN for her first major interview as the Democratic presidential nominee.
--:-- [Audio clip from CNN interview plays]
--:-- Kamala Harris: The true measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: But how did she answer questions about what her own policies would be?
--:-- Michelle Martin: At events in Michigan and Wisconsin, the other presidential candidate defended himself and his vice presidential candidate.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: He's not weird and I'm not weird. I mean, where a lot of things went out weird.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Donald Trump has also been adjusting the way he talks about reproductive rights.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And an outbreak of bacteria in deli meat has killed at least nine people.
--:-- Michelle Martin: The size of the recall is also concerning because it suggests that there was an ongoing problem and we're still seeing cases.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: What can you do to stay safe? Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day.
--:-- [Audio clip from BetterHelp ad plays]
--:-- Steve Inskeep: This message comes from BetterHelp.
--:-- President Fernando Madeira: For me, sometimes I just need to go and talk to somebody that is not going to judge me, right?
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Vice President Kamala Harris sat down with CNN for her first major interview as the Democratic presidential nominee.
--:-- Kamala Harris: The most important and most significant aspect of my policy perspective and decisions is my values have not changed.
--:-- Dana Bash: Running for president in 2019, she said she would ban fracking. But in the interview, she insisted she had changed her mind by a little bit later in that same campaign in 2020, that she's been in favor of fracking for years and would not ban it now.
--:-- Kamala Harris: With Dana Bash, she worked through some of the policy changes.
--:-- Asma Khalid: I think you see in this interview that she has grown. I mean, she's certainly more practiced in how to interview and how to answer reporter questions than when I first interviewed her.
--:-- Michelle Martin: But this was also a different format. It was a joint interview with her running mate, Tim Walls.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Broadly, Michelle, this was not an earth-shattering interview. Republicans and Democrats will take from it whatever they want that reinforces their own pre-perceptions of her.
--:-- Michelle Martin: To some, she is seen as pragmatic. To others, she is seen as long.
--:-- Asma Khalid: I think they could take whatever they want either way in that interpretation from last night's interview.
--:-- Michelle Martin: You know, she was largely offering a continuation of President Biden's policies.
--:-- Asma Khalid: One area that caught my attention was the economy because it is one of the Democrats' biggest vulnerabilities.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Many voters remain frustrated with high prices.
--:-- Asma Khalid: She acknowledged that, but also championed the work that the Biden administration has done on things like lowering Medicare drug prices and creating manufacturing jobs.
--:-- Michelle Martin: What we have done to improve the supply chain so we're not relying on foreign governments to supply American families with their basic needs, I'll say that that's good work.
--:-- Asma Khalid: There's more to do, but that's good work.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Did she offer any, say, new proposals that one could point to as her own?
--:-- Asma Khalid: Not much. I mean, she was asked to spell out about what she would do on day one as president, and she talked in vague terms about strengthening the middle class.
--:-- Michelle Martin: But, you know, I'd also say that detailed policy proposals are not central to how she's campaigning.
--:-- Asma Khalid: She talks about herself as being a new way forward and turning the page on an era of negative politics that has dominated our culture this last decade.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Where there is some suggestion, warped, I believe it to be, that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down instead of where I believe most Americans are, which is to believe that the true measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up.
--:-- Asma Khalid: That's what's at stake as much as any other detail that we could discuss in this election.
--:-- Michelle Martin: So as you hear there, I mean, she sees this campaign about character.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And it sounds obviously like she was alluding to former President Trump.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Did she have more to say about her Republican opponent?
--:-- Asma Khalid: Well, she critiqued his time in office and said that he mismanaged the COVID crisis.
--:-- Michelle Martin: But when she was asked to respond to disparaging comments about her racial identity, she brushed off the question saying, quote, same old tired playbook.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Next question, please.
--:-- Michelle Martin: You know, it strikes me that in this race to define her, she does not want to play on Trump's terms.
--:-- Asma Khalid: What's interesting is that she and Trump have never really interacted in person before.
--:-- Michelle Martin: They're expected to meet on the debate stage September 10th.
--:-- Asma Khalid: And that will perhaps be, I think, one of the most important moments of this truncated campaign, a chance to see how they respond to questions face to face in front of one another and to one another.
--:-- Michelle Martin: That is NPR's Asma Khalid. Asma, thank you.
--:-- Asma Khalid: Good to speak with you.
--:-- [Audio clip from Donald Trump town hall plays]
--:-- Donald Trump: We are going to, the government is going to pay for it or we're going to get or mandate your insurance company to pay for it, which is going to be great.
--:-- Clay Masters: This came after he told a reporter earlier in the day that he wanted IVF to be covered by the federal government or mandated with private insurance.
--:-- Donald Trump: And I should note, Trump did not provide any specific details whatsoever.
--:-- Clay Masters: And, of course, this is part of a bigger change in rhetoric around reproductive rights that Trump has been trying out.
--:-- Donald Trump: In Wisconsin last night, he used the issue to criticize Minnesota Governor Tim Walz.
--:-- Clay Masters: He accused Walz of supporting abortions into the third trimester of pregnancy, though he did not back that up with any evidence.
--:-- Clay Masters: So you just said that he's been using abortion as a way he's trying out this attack line against Tim Walz.
--:-- Clay Masters: With Rawls needed the ticket, what are his storylines? Like, how are his attacks shaping up?
--:-- Clay Masters: Yeah, La Crosse, Wisconsin, right across the Mississippi River from Minnesota.
--:-- Clay Masters: So there were a lot of people in the audience from the neighboring state.
--:-- Clay Masters: A woman from Minnesota got up to ask a question about crime and just mentioning the home of Harris's running mate just riled up Trump, pivoting quickly to a label that Walls has given Trump and his running mate J.D. Vance.
--:-- Donald Trump: Trump is kind of working to flip the script. He's not weird and I'm not weird. I mean, where a lot of things went out weird, I will tell you.
--:-- Clay Masters: But that guy is weird, don't you think?
--:-- Clay Masters: So Trump went on to talk about a bill Walls signed in Minnesota that made tampons available in school bathrooms.
--:-- Clay Masters: Walls is giving Trump a lot to work with, but Trump is clearly still unsure what his line of attack is going to be against the Democratic vice presidential nominee.
--:-- Michelle Martin: That is Minnesota Public Radio's Clay Masters. Clay, thank you.
--:-- Clay Masters: You're welcome.
--:-- [Audio clip from NPR Consumer Health correspondent Yuki Noguchi plays]
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: So some of these products that were already recalled earlier this month were made back in June or early July.
--:-- Michelle Martin: So why are we still seeing this get worse?
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: Several reasons. The products themselves have long shelf lives. You know, they might still be in people's refrigerators.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says some of the recalled meats have sell-by dates into October.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Also, as we mentioned, it's a massive amount of potentially infected meat, you know, over 7 million pounds.
--:-- Barbara Kowalczyk: The size of the recall is also concerning because it suggests that there was an ongoing problem and we're still seeing cases.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: Also, the incubation period for listeria is long, meaning it can take up to 10 weeks for someone who ate the bad meat to get sick in some cases.
--:-- Michelle Martin: So how can this be contained?
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: You know, it's difficult because listeria is hard to get rid of and spreads really easily.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: You know, just think about the specifics of this case. The original contamination has been traced back to a liverwurst product made at a boarshead factory in Jarrett, Virginia.
--:-- Michelle Martin: But that factory also made 70 other meat products that processed through some of the same machines.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: Then those were sent to groceries in every corner of the country.
--:-- Michelle Martin: And in fact, the recent deaths have been in New York, Florida, Tennessee, New Mexico, you know, very, very widespread.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: And once it's in those communities, it can spread through hands or countertops or meat slicers themselves or within people's refrigerators.
--:-- Michelle Martin: So as you mentioned, some of these products are probably still around, meaning this outbreak could continue to sicken people for months.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: So what should people do?
--:-- Michelle Martin: You're looking for a specific number, 12612 on the inspection label.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: And that information is also on the CDC's food safety recall list.
--:-- Michelle Martin: If your food was recalled, then clean your refrigerator, you know, kitchen countertops, anything that might have come into contact with it.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: But if you're pregnant or over age 65, then the precautions are stronger. Avoid even eating the deli meats at all.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Don't buy items at groceries where those meats have been handled.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: Okay, I'm going to say that again. A specific number, 12612 on the inspection label. That's important.
--:-- Michelle Martin: That's right.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Okay, so finally, what are some of the symptoms that people could be watching for?
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: Well, fever, aching muscles, tiredness that can turn into stiff neck or seizures, or for severe cases, the treatment will be antibiotics.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Okay, that is NPR's Yuki Noguchi. Yuki, thank you so much.
--:-- Yuki Noguchi: Thank you.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: And that's Up First for Friday, August 30th. I'm Steve Inskeep.
--:-- Michelle Martin: And I'm Michelle Martin.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Up First is with you this weekend. Aisha Roscoe and Scott Simon have the news in this feed or wherever you get your podcasts.
--:-- Michelle Martin: Today's episode of Up First was edited by Megan Pratt, Dana Farrington, Diane Weber, Mohamed Elbardisi, and Alice Wolfley.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: It was produced by Ziad Batch, Nia Dumas, and Nina Kravinsky.
--:-- Michelle Martin: We get engineering support from Carly Strange, and our technical director is Stacey Abbott.
--:-- Steve Inskeep: Join us again on Monday.
--:-- Michelle Martin: You.
