--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: This is a Sunday Story. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. What if I told you that the U.S. is the largest exporter of natural gas in the world? It started with the fracking boom in the mid-2000s. We, it turns out, are the Saudi Arabia of natural gas. We've got a lot of it. A lot of it. Enough to export.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Before NPR, I spent six years as an energy reporter, and a big part of my job was covering the promise of natural gas. And we all know this fuel. It's what you might use to cook your food or to heat your house. There's a form of this gas called liquefied natural gas, or LNG. And that's when you take natural gas and super cool it, reducing its volume to a much smaller size, which makes it possible to load it up onto giant ships headed to consumers across the world.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: The promise of LNG was that it could be a bridge fuel for the U.S. and the world, taking us closer to a future reliant on renewable energy. It's been heralded as safe, clean, and efficient. Today on the Sunday Story, we look at what that promise has meant for one community in Louisiana where much of the LNG export industry is based, and how the promises of LNG have not reflected reality.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: I'm joined by two reporters based in New Orleans, Hallie Parker and Carlisle Calhoun. In their recent series, All Gassed Up, they follow the journey of LNG from the Gulf Coast and on to Europe and Japan, where much of that gas ends up.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: This message comes from the NPR Wine Club, a place to explore the exciting world of wine, including wines inspired by popular NPR shows, like all things considered Cabernet. Whether buying a few bottles or joining the club, all purchases help support NPR programming and fund quality reporting developed to connect people to their communities and the world they live in. More at nprwineclub.org slash podcast. Must be 21 or older to purchase.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Support for NPR and the following message come from Pete and Jerry's Eggs. Their new organic pasture-raised eggs are the next level of commitment to healthy hens, healthy eggs, and a healthy planet. These hens roam outside in nature with over 108 square feet of pasture each and enjoy a USDA-certified organic diet with no GMOs, added hormones, or synthetic pesticides. Delicious, ethical, healthy eggs, as nature intended. Learn more at PeteAndJerrys.com.
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--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: We're back with the Sunday story. I'm here with reporters Hallie Parker and Carlisle Calhoun from WWNO. Welcome to the program. We're happy to be here. Thanks so much for having us.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Thanks for having us.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So I know that Louisiana has always been a state with pretty close ties to the oil and gas industry. I mean, there's lots of, you know, offshore drilling and things of that nature. But can you give me a sense of like what's going on now with, you know, with LNG? You call it an LNG frenzy. Like, how is this different or what's happening?
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Yeah. So in the last few years, Louisiana has really become ground zero for the buildout of LNG. You know, three of the country's eight LNG export terminals are here, and almost a dozen more are potentially on the way. And that's all happening super fast.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Yeah. And talking to Hallie about this issue, we were just struck by how massively this industry is growing in our backyard. And after kind of digging in, we realized that this is both a local and a global story, because Louisiana really has become one of the biggest players in LNG in the world.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Yeah, and you mentioned, Aisha, Louisiana has been an oil and gas state for such a long time. So those close ties to the industry really set up Louisiana to capitalize on this growth of LNG. Also, just geographically, Louisiana is in a good position. First, this natural gas gets fracked out of the ground in places like West Texas or northwestern Louisiana. And then that gas is piped down to export terminals along the Gulf Coast, where it's loaded onto these giant ships and carried to consumers across the world.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Let's start with the local side of this. In your series, you really focus on one area. It's a place called Cameron Parish. What's it like?
--:-- Hallie Parker: Cameron Parish. It's this incredibly rural place. And you're really just struck by these fields of green meadow and marsh. You actually have to be pretty careful. I had to be careful when I was driving down there because of just the abundance of birds flitting through. It's this huge migration area.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Historically, this was a place where it had one of the largest fishing industries in the U.S. And there still is a large fishing community there looking for shrimp and oysters and all of that good stuff. Now, the other major industry is oil and gas. You know, if you look out into the Gulf, you can still see some of the oil platforms. And the industry has had a presence here for over a century. So it's kind of the community's go-to when it comes to jobs.
--:-- Hallie Parker: And then a few years ago, Cameron Parrish got a huge offer. This company called Venture Global LNG announced it was going to build a massive export terminal on the Gulf there. And there were these big promises made about all the benefits it would bring. Jobs with high salaries. They said they were committed to protecting the environment and, you know, investing in the community. And this was all part of a promise to be a good neighbor. And it sounded really good.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: They even told the public about this big plan to build a marina to serve the area. And these were all things that this struggling parish could not afford.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So these promises sound really good. This particular LNG terminal that was built in Cameron Parish. Can you describe it for me?
--:-- Hallie Parker: Yeah, so it's called the Calcasieu Pass Terminal. And Hallie was saying, you know, Cameron Parish is this really rural, flat place. And so you're driving through just Martian open space, and this facility just appears out of nowhere and dwarfs everything else. It's spread over a thousand acres right on the water. Just huge concrete structures and pipes and also enormous LNG tankers docked in front.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: But probably the best person to answer this question is this guy named John Allaire, who we spend a lot of time with in the series. He's a retired environmental engineer. He actually used to work for BP and other oil and gas companies. And he retired to what he calls his paradise. You know, I love it. My whole family grew up here. But now the Calcushue Pass export terminal sits less than a mile away from his home.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And John has a lot to say about how life has changed. I mean it just it looks like you looking at Las Vegas. So there a tremendous amount of light pollution. There the noise. You can smell it and you can you know it just makes it hard to breathe. It way different than it was three or four years ago before all that was there.
--:-- Hallie Parker: It's not what it was, but I would imagine that the terminal has brought a lot of jobs to the area. And often with projects like this, you'll have a lot of people that support it because they want, you know, the money brought into the area. Is that the case here?
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: There are plenty of people who support the terminal. Cameron Parish has been going through some very tough economic times. Plus, repeated hurricanes have also hit the area. And a lot of people have just packed up and moved away. So some really see LNG as a kind of savior for the area. And a lot of these supporters were pretty vocal at a town meeting I went to last fall.
--:-- Hallie Parker: The meeting was about how Venture Global wants to build another new export terminal right next to the existing one. And this one would actually be twice as big. So this meeting was packed. We heard supporters talk about how the company came to their aid after these back-to-back hurricanes in 2020.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: In fact, the LNGs have done wonders for us. When we had no schools, they brought portable buildings in for us to live in and for us to operate in. When we look at our parish, we say, where would we be today if it wasn't for the LNG? We have been the forgotten town for so long. Cameron needs this to survive and prosper. Thank you.
--:-- Hallie Parker: But then John Allaire, the retired environmental engineer, walked up to the microphone with this whole different point of view.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: People are talking about no feasible problems, adventure global. That sound you're hearing is John slapping down these big old bags of mud, one after the other, taken from his property. I have buckets of free samples of it out in my truck if you want to eat. Black, viscous mud.
--:-- Hallie Parker: John says muck lined the beach after Venture Global dredged for construction. But the whole area, that whole beachfront is ruined. John says he believes the community is trading its very foundation, you know, this place that it's built on, all for an industry that won't stick around after the profits slow down. The marsh is going to be gone. The wetlands are going to be gone. The estuaries are going to be covered up with these concrete monuments.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And there are other people like John, too, who feel that the jobs and the economic benefits to the area are exaggerated. And also because these LNG companies are getting these really huge tax breaks. So not as much money as you'd think comes back to the parish.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: And John told us he thinks this scale of destruction of nature wouldn't be allowed to happen in other areas of the country. He says we have the West Coast, the East Coast and here, the Carbon Coast. The Carbon Coast.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So you have these local citizens documenting the environmental impacts. But I mean, aren't there federal and local environmental regulations that this company has to comply with?
--:-- Hallie Parker: Yes. So John, because one, he lives so close and also he has this background in environmental engineering, has kept a very close watch on the plant that's right next door. I mean, he literally installed cameras to document the plant's operations. And that's things like flaring, which is when these plants burn off extra chemicals or gas and release those into the air.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Plants are allowed to do this, but it's only supposed to be done for very short periods of time. But John takes pictures of flaring just about every day. This was taken earlier this year.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Where'd you take this?
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: From my patio here. From where we're standing, from where your camp is, you're just watching them flare all the time?
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Well, they aren't this morning, but it'll be very surprising if they aren't by the end of the day.
--:-- Hallie Parker: He ends up having what we describe as a daily diarrhea flares, way more flaring than what Venture Global is allowed under its permit, according to John's records.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: And for him, even what the plant is allowed to release is troubling. And he read out this long list of chemicals from the permit. You got sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxide. They're emitting carbon monoxide, volatile organic compounds, which are toxic air pollutants and hazardous air pollutants. 1,3-butadiene, acetyl aldehyde, acrylin benzene.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So he goes on and on with that, listing off just different hazardous and toxic chemicals. And Venture Global is allowed to release those chemicals up to a certain amount. As John puts it, a permit is a permit to pollute.
--:-- Hallie Parker: So John would call to report his concerns whenever he was concerned about the air quality. But the state of Louisiana doesn't actually have any air monitors in Cameron Parish. And there's really just so few monitors across the state generally.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: So there's no real-time monitoring of the air. So the state would take John's reports and sometimes send an officer to collect air data. But sometimes the officer wouldn't be able to show up until several hours later, according to John, because this area is so remote.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: The state really mostly relies on the company to self-report its own emissions and incidents. Right. It would be fair to say there's an information gap there.
--:-- Hallie Parker: I mean, it seems like this is the sort of story that you hear with any fossil fuels concerns for people around it. I remember people were very concerned about the fracking itself, which is how they get the gas. Are the concerns of people like John being heard? And is there anything being done to address these worries that people have?
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Well, not a lot is being done at the state level. You know, Venture Global actually ended up violating their permit over 2,000 times in their first year of operation, meaning they released more pollution than they were allowed over 2,000 times.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And that was in part because they had a lot of operational issues, including blackouts during that first year. And while state regulators have ordered Venture Global to follow their environmental rules, the company is saying those violations weren't their fault.
--:-- Hallie Parker: The state is still pursuing a compliance order, but Venture Global is also asking state regulators to change their permit to allow them to release a whole lot more pollution. Like flaring, for example. They've asked for their permit to allow over 800% more of it.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So Hallie's talking about the state level. At the federal level, there has been some action. At the beginning of this year, the Biden administration announced a temporary pause in approving further export permits.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: And the pause was to stop new terminals from being built until they had a chance to study the industry's impact. They're looking at impacts on local health, where these terminals are located. Also impacts the climate and to the national economy, because exporting all this gas makes our gas prices more volatile, which can mean higher gas prices for us.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: That pause lasted just about five months. A federal court in Louisiana recently stopped it after Louisiana and 16 other states sued over this pause. Still, the Department of Energy is going forward with their review.
--:-- Hallie Parker: You know, the whole thing about natural gas and liquefied natural gas is that it's supposed to be a bridge fuel, right? Like it was supposed to be something that had less emissions than coal that could be used on a big scale until you could get like renewables like you know solar and wind and all of these things up and running.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Like what are the impacts of liquefied natural gas on climate change?
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: One of the main talking points of the LNG industry is that LNG is much cleaner than coal. But there is a factor here that's not talked about as much, which is methane. LNG is made up almost entirely of methane, and methane is what climate scientists call a climate super pollutant.
--:-- Hallie Parker: We spoke to this scientist named Debbie Gordon at the Rocky Mountain Institute who studies methane emissions' effect on climate change, and she told us with so much focus directed at carbon dioxide emissions, methane is often overlooked.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: So while carbon dioxide remains incredibly important because it lives for hundreds if not thousands of years in the atmosphere, like a blanket on the planet, what methane does is right now as soon as it comes out it puts 80 blankets on the planet and so you're super warmed. 80 warm blankets and And methane stays in the atmosphere for up to 12 years.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And that is why not leaking is so very important. But there is just so much leakage that happens during the process of liquefying and transporting the gas.
--:-- Hallie Parker: A recent study that's currently under peer review by Robert Haworth at Cornell University shows that LNG could actually be twice as bad for the climate as coal.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: I'm sure the industry is pushing back on that, right?
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Yes, they are pushing back on this study.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Yeah, and we should say that we did try multiple times throughout this reporting process to talk with different oil majors, including Venture Global, and we did not get a response.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: And actually, the oil and gas industry has been producing their own studies of climate impacts from LNG. And they still claim that it's better for the environment than coal.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: But what's clear is that the large-scale export of natural gas through LNG has created so many more opportunities for methane to leak.
--:-- Hallie Parker: When we come back, we follow LNG's life cycle across the world, from the Louisiana plants to places like Germany.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: This message comes from NPR sponsor AARP. Where do you see your career in 12 years? What are you doing now to help you get there? The sooner you start enhancing your skills, the sooner you'll be ready. That's why AARP has management, finance, and small business reskilling courses, all to help your income live as long as you do. Because the steps you choose to take today will help you love what you do in the future. Learn more at aarp.org slash skills.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So we got these tankers leaving the Gulf Coast, going to places like Europe, right?
--:-- Hallie Parker: Yes, a lot of this LNG is headed to Europe. And that really started when Russia invaded Ukraine two years ago.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Ukraine is under a state of emergency for at least the next 30 days. And European countries panicked because so many of them relied on Russia to pipe over cheap gas to heat their homes. And access to that gas started to become unreliable and ultimately shut down for the most part after a pipeline exploded.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: ...two underwater explosions large enough to register on the Richter scale near the Danish island of Bornholm. European leaders believe this was not an accident.
--:-- Hallie Parker: And that panic spurred the U.S., President Biden specifically, to promise to send more American natural gas to make up for the loss.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: We're coming together to reduce Europe's dependence on Russian energy. Yeah, I mean, Russia has used its supply of natural gas to Europe as a weapon at times. So having LNG from the U.S. was a huge help to Europe.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Almost half of Europe's natural gas came from Russia. And Germany was a country that was especially hard hit. It was by far Russia's biggest customer.
--:-- Hallie Parker: But Germany did respond extremely quickly. There was this big push to build out floating temporary import terminals to accept mostly American LNG.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: And to allow this build out to happen fast, the German parliament passed this big law called the LNG Acceleration Act to allow environmental laws and public input to be bypassed.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And it was a very un-German thing to do because the German government does have all these regulations when it comes to big infrastructure projects.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Hallie and I actually traveled to Germany because we wanted to understand this new relationship between Europe and the Gulf Coast. And so we went there last fall.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: And while we were over there, we found this retired sea captain named Jaachin Martin, who lives in Wilhelmslaven, which is a small town on the North Sea where the first import terminal in Germany was built.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And Jaachin, of course, because he's a sea captain, knows how all these complicated marine traffic websites work. And he's also concerned about the climate impacts of LNG.
--:-- Hallie Parker: So he tracks all the LNG ships that are coming into the port. And he gathered us around his computer and he was able to show us that the vast majority of ships are coming from the Gulf Coast.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: That's the first one that came? That was the first one, yeah. And it came from Sabine Pass? Yeah, from Sabine Pass. Freeport? Texas. Cameron? Louisiana. 11. Lake Charles? Louisiana. Yeah, 14.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So these are familiar places, Cameron Parish, Sabine Pass, basically where we just were on the Louisiana Gulf Coast.
--:-- Hallie Parker: So like the U.S., many European nations have vowed to cut down on carbon emissions, to invest more in renewables. How long do they expect to rely on LNG?
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: That is a question we also had. You know, even in that first year of importing more LNG, none of these import terminals operated at full capacity.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: In Germany, LNG is kind of a backup in times of energy crisis. And they're still sticking to their climate pledge and rapidly building out renewable energy projects. Germany actually already gets more than half of their energy from renewables.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Still, Germany has now invested a lot of money in LNG infrastructure. And some critics do worry that that will keep the country hooked on gas longer.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: We spoke to Konstantin Zerger, who's with Environment Action Germany, about this.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Everybody knew that you can't really invest into new fossil infrastructure. Time's gone. So this is an unexpected opportunity to prolong the lifetime of the business model.
--:-- Hallie Parker: There is concern by environmentalists like Konstantin that Germany is now part of this vicious cycle by building import terminals and signing these long-term contracts that actually lock them into buying American LNG for up to 20 years.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Germany's creating demand, even though Germany doesn't actually need our LNG for long. So the question then is, what will it do with the LNG they promised to buy? And the answer is, they will simply start selling it to other countries, and Germany will become an LNG mental man.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Okay, so that takes us to the next stop on your reporting journey, Japan. And it's a long way from Europe. But talk to us about Japan connection to the LNG industry and when that started.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Yes So Japan interest in LNG goes way back. Back in the 70s, there was the global oil crisis, which older folks might remember those massive lines to fill up their cars with gasoline.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: People can no longer afford to run cars that do 12 miles to the gallon. In the Dallas area today, dealers raised prices to more than 40 cents a gallon. This gas line at one station on the Upper West Side ran from 96th Street and West End Avenue all the way up to 102nd Street.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Well, that oil crisis, it hit Japan super hard. So they started looking for other energy options, and LNG was one of them.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Japan's interest in major investments really played a major role in creating the global industry that we see today. We actually call it the sugar daddy of LNG in our series.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: So the LNG industry kept growing. And then in 2011, Japan struck by another disaster. A major earthquake and then a tsunami hit. And they took out the Fukushima nuclear plant, polluting this huge region with radiation, which had enormous consequences.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: It qualifies as the second worst nuclear incident in the history of the nuclear age. Nuclear had been the major source of energy for the country, even considered a kind of fuel of the future.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Right after Fukushima, you know, I remember whole towns had to be abandoned. It was this terrible tragedy.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Exactly. And public opinion afterward was shut down the nuclear plants. So after the disaster, Japan stops operation at all of their nuclear plants and they had a lot of them, almost 50.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: About a third of Japan's electricity came from nuclear. So all of a sudden, like we were talking about in Germany, they needed to find a new source of energy. And LNG looked better than ever.
--:-- Hallie Parker: So LNG was really big in Japan for a few years in that immediate aftermath.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: But now that's actually changing. Nuclear plants are coming back online and Japanese consumers are using less gas.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: I don't think we've said this yet, but LNG is incredibly expensive, you know, the entire process it takes to get to where it is.
--:-- Hallie Parker: And I should say, Japan does still want LNG as a backup, but Japanese utility companies have now shifted their gaze to other countries and have really developed a global strategy to ensure the future of their investment in LNG.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: All right, so what's the plan then? Japan is still a huge player in LNG, right?
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Yes, and these Japanese gas companies that have also been given the green light by the government have begun selling this idea of LNG to other poorer Asian countries, in kind of this bid to become a middleman.
--:-- Hallie Parker: And so that idea of gas being cleaner and more sustainable than coal? In Japan, there's actually a slogan for it, coined by the Japan Gas Association. Gas-stainable, short for gas and sustainable. With gas. So gas sustainable.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: So we named this slogan. That's a catchy slogan. But based on what you said earlier about emissions, it's pretty misleading, right?
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Yeah. And talking to the Japan Gas Association, you can see their banking on this LNG bridge not ending anytime soon.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Japan's push to get other countries hooked on LNG is extensive. Different companies are subsidizing the build-out of gas infrastructure in Vietnam and India.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: But LNG is still incredibly expensive and volatile, whereas the cost of wind and solar is far cheaper. Those emerging countries are also looking at renewables, but it's still a question of which direction they'll choose.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: So let's step back a bit. You know, we've got this LNG industry with a lot of clout, big promises have been made, investments have been made, but at the same time, people aren't really seen price drops, right?
--:-- Hallie Parker: You mentioned earlier that LNG is expensive compared to other energy sources, even compared to renewables. But what about here in the U.S.? Since the fracking boom and this export boom, how has that affected natural gas prices for people like John?
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: You know, that's a good question. And I think John Allaire in Louisiana sums up at least how he feels about that. I'm not seeing the benefit. They're getting all the tax breaks, we get nothing.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Remember, all of the gas that's going through this export terminal is leaving. It's not staying in the country. So the more that we're exporting our U.S. gas, the more opportunity there is for our gas prices to be pushed higher.
--:-- Hallie Parker: There was a study by the U.S. Energy Information Association that found that exporting more American gas could lead to higher, more unpredictable energy prices.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: You know, right now is the golden age for LNG. Companies are doing gangbusters. There are dozens of proposals for more export terminals, most of them on the Gulf Coast. But if the market turns and prices drop, we will see the familiar boom bust, a cycle that is familiar to the oil and gas industry.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: And economists are already predicting a glut of LNG in the coming years as demand falls. And that means prices would go down and profits as well. Which could mean companies just walking away from these massive plants.
--:-- Hallie Parker: Our federal government has allowed companies to walk away from a huge amount of polluting oil and gas wells before. And many worry the same could happen again, leaving local people to live with the continued pollution.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: Obviously, there are big concerns about LNG, but some would say there's still a need and demand for fossil fuels like natural gas. Here in the U.S., we can't rely on just wind and solar. So yes, the U.S. and many other countries are still using fossil fuels right now.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: But certain countries are spending a lot of money, including the U.S., to speed up a transition to renewables. So I think we need to ask, how much LNG does the U.S. need to export and for how long?
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: You know, each new export terminal that's built could lock in at least another 20 years of natural gas use. So if we're continuing to build out this infrastructure, are we then delaying the opportunity to move towards renewables?
--:-- Hallie Parker: Well, thank you, Hallie and Carlisle, for joining us to talk about your reporting from your latest series, All Gassed Up. It was great being able to visit my old beat of energy. One more time. Thanks so much.
--:-- Carlisle Calhoun: Thanks for having us.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: For more of Hallie and Carlisle's reporting, you can listen to their series, All Gassed Up, on the podcast See Change from WWNO and WRKF.
--:-- Ayesha Roscoe: This episode was produced and edited by Justine Yan. Our senior editor is Jenny Schmidt. Maggie Luthar mastered this episode. The Sunday Story team includes Andrew Mambo and Hazel Feldstein. Our supervising senior producer is Liana Simstrom. Irene Noguchi is our executive producer. I'm Ayesha Roscoe. Up first is back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend. Thank you.
