--:-- I'm Alex Honnold, professional rock climber and founder of the Honnold Foundation. I wanted to let you know about a brand new season of the Planet Visionaries podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. This is the podcast exploring bold ideas and big solutions from the people leading the way in conservation. Join me in conversation with the likes of climate champion Mark Ruffalo, biologist and photographer Christina Mittermeier, and one of the most successful conservationists of our time, Chris Tompkins. Join us on Planet Visionaries wherever you get your podcasts. Here is something most people never talk about. Half of young people will face psychosexual challenges at some point. Mojo gives you a private, science-backed way to work through them without shame and without awkward conversations. Mojo is the world's first AI sex and relationship therapist. It turns 50-plus years of sexology research into short, guided sessions you can do anytime. 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We're going to talk a lot about flow state and how to help people keep you in that zone. If you're like me, you get interrupted quite a bit when you're in that flow state, not on purpose, but then how do you get back and maintain it? We're going to talk through that. We're going to talk through a lot about optimal energy. Like we talk a lot about energy in this episode today. So this is round two with Dr. Haley Perlis. Amazing mindset, gold medalist. So buckle up because this one is amazing. You're listening to Mick Unplugged, hosted by the one and only Mick Hunt. This is where purpose meets power and stories spark transformation. Mick takes you beyond the motivation and into meaning, helping you discover your because and becoming unstoppable. I'm Rudy Rush, and trust me, you're in the right place. Let's get unplugged. Haley, how are you doing today, dear? I'm great, Mick. We both got it right today in our red. Right, right. It is red. It is red. It is good energy today. Good energy today. And speaking of energy, Haley, you know, one of your speaking topics, things you do master classes around is what you call optimal energy flow. And I would love because I have to go through this weekly, sometimes daily. I'd love for you to just talk to the viewers and listeners about optimal energy today for everybody listening, for everybody watching. This is a master class. This is just going to be Dr. Haley giving us the goods on optimal energy. How about that? Let's do it. Let's do it. And let's start with why energy? Yeah. This is something my mentors taught me. You know, we're always looking for more time in the day, but it's 24. And unless, you know, time zones and daylight savings, but it's 24. And we would even question, I would even question, do we really want more time in the day? So think of a moment in your life where you had a lot of time to do something, but not a lot of energy. What was the outcome? What was the process? How did it feel? Compared to a moment in your life where you didn't have a lot of time, but you had a lot of energy. What was the outcome? What was the process? What was the experience? How did that feel? And I've never, ever met someone that said, well, the better outcome was with more time, less energy. It's all about having more energy. So the only way to really manage our time is to better manage our energy. And so I came up with the Optum Energy Flow because in my area of expertise, which is the head, the neck up, every thought that we have has an impact on our emotions. Now, our emotions subsequently then create new thoughts, but every thought that we have will create an emotion. And then that emotion impacts our biology, our physiology, our heart rate, our muscle tension, our skin conductance. And then that influences our behavior and performance. So our thoughts impact our emotions, which influence our body, which then creates performance. And if we can get it right, if we can optimize that flow, then we have the optimum energy flow and it's circular because we all know when we perform well, well, that creates new optimal thoughts. And I don't like the word positive thinking. I like the word productive thinking. And so, yeah, I knew you'd like that one. And so, you know, if we get into this optimum energy flow, then we can be productive. And I think that is the ultimate goal. See, that's why you're the guru. That's why you're my coach, right? Because I talk all the time about positive energy. Literally just 10 minutes ago on a call with one of my teammates and was like, I need to change the energy a little bit. But I like productive energy. energy. You know, you're an athlete. I played sports. We call it getting into the zone or getting into that flow state. Right. And this is me being honest and transparent. I don't know if people who didn't play sports, I don't care what level, understand that flow state. And so it is so hard for me when I know that I'm in that zone, when I'm in that flow state of whatever I'm doing, and then someone wants to interrupt me. Like that's a bad word for me to say interrupt, but they need me for something. And it's like, man, I know how hard it is to get back to where I just was. And so this is my question, Dr. Haley. How important is optimal energy flow for that flow state or for that zone? And then how do we let others know we're there without sounding like jerks? Oh, well, you know, that's a, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a tough one, but it's also an easy one at the same time, because the more you practice, the more you practice, um, you, you start teaching others what those signs are. So now if it's someone new, new to your business, a new employee, someone new, they're going to have to obviously learn it for the first time. But if you get into the habit, if you tell people, if you see me doing this, if you like, if it looks a certain way, it feels a certain way, you can let people know. And just before I'll just before this discussion that you and I are having, I was in my kitchen and I was prepping on my computer and I was answering a couple of things and I was essentially like focused and in the zone. And my husband came over to me to give me a little tip about the dishwasher. I kid you not. I didn't stack something properly. So he was just giving me a little bit of feedback, which I love and I'm happy to receive. But I just looked at him and I said, I'm just about, I'm just wrapping this up and then I'm getting on a podcast. Can we touch base in 45 minutes? And because I said it directly, specifically and politely, he said, yep, no problem. Went off on his way. And sometimes, same thing. He's a day trader. Sometimes I walk in there with something to say and he's in the middle of a hundred trades. And so he'll, and then now I've gotten to the habit of saying, hey, can I ask you a question? Is this a good time? So we've learned how, you know, we've learned how to approach each other. I've certainly learned how to read the signs. He's doing that as well. And then you get into this behavior. But I think the first thing is not to be afraid to say, hey, happy to talk. I'm in the middle of something and I'm right in the zone. You could even say it. I'll get back to you in 20, 30, tomorrow, whenever it is. But you have to be assertive in that. No, I agree. And, you know, I'm a huge emotional intelligence advocate. I teach it across the good. I used to say the country, but now across the globe. And one of the things when I'm in my flow state that I have to work on is the self-regulation, because while it's probably my strongest suit of emotional intelligence or the five pillars it also the one I have to think on the most right So it like okay I in this zone and to your point responding politely but a little bit direct but then giving the cues and signs So I never thought about having that conversation of when you see me do this or, you know, when you hear this, don't like I need my space or I need my time. So I'm going to take that in and I'm going to figure out what those cues are. I'm going to have to ask my wife because my wife sees me in the zone probably more than anyone else because she's with me and like my teams are remote, right? Like we work in various places across the United States. So they don't see me, but my wife sees me. So I'm going to ask her, what are the cues? I don't know if I'm going to like what she says. Well, be open-minded to hear it. But then here's the thing. When you do say no to someone, what you're saying is not right now, right? Let me get back to you. I'm in the zone. So then you have to actually follow up with that. You have to then come back and say, okay, now I'm ready. Are you ready? So you can't just, because then they'll just learn, well, I'll never hear from you. You'll never remember. So, you know, it's a two-way street. Yeah. No, I love it. I love it. All right. So productive energy. Love that term. Totally borrowing it from you and going to give you a ton of credit. Why is productive energy... There's only one me. Only so many hours and only so much focus. That is why the new Notion agent has been huge for me. The tedious work that used to slow me down is now handled in minutes. Post-meeting admin used to be the part of the day I dreaded. Now, my Notion agent reads the notes, turns them into action items, adds them to the right pages, and tags the right teammates. 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That's all lowercase letters, Notion.com forward slash Mick to try your new AI teammate, Notion Agent, today. And when you use our link, you're supporting our show. Notion.com forward slash Mick. True or false? Incognito mode makes you invisible on the internet. The answer is false. Most people have no idea, but your browsing history can still be monitored and even recorded unless you use ExpressVPN. Look, there are times when I'm researching guests, projects, companies, or digging into sensitive prep for the podcast. I don't need my internet provider keeping tabs on what I'm looking up. And that is why I actually use ExpressVPN. It protects me from all the third parties who can still see every website I visit, my ISP, my mobile network, even whoever controls the Wi-Fi if I'm traveling. Express VPN reroutes 100% of your traffic through secure, encrypted servers so those third parties cannot see your browsing history. Plans start at just $349 a month. It hides your IP address. It works on all devices. And it's unbelievably easy to use. I open the app, tap one button, and I'm protected. And this matters to me. I live online. I research online. I run businesses online. Privacy is non-negotiable. ExpressVPN is the tool I trust. Secure your online data today by visiting expressvpn.com slash mick. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash mick to find out how you can get up to four extra months. expressvpn.com slash mick optimal right i know it sounds like easy to say well duh right but there are people that are watching or listening to the understand yeah i need productive energy but i don't know if they understand the why behind the why of the productive yeah great question so when we're looking for productivity sometimes negative thinking can be productive sometimes unpleasant emotions, sad, deflated, defeated, angry, frustrated, can be productive. And so I don't want to just pigeonhole us into just thinking that positive thinking is the only way to go. And a lot of people in the performance zone will completely relate to that. Now I'm saying it's not that positive thinking isn't also productive, but we have to understand that there is a place for just in simplest terms, negative thinking and negative emotions, Those can be productive, too. In addition to that, I don't think that it's always possible to be positive because I think sometimes things just simply suck. And you were you were so right. And here's something that I'll even add to that when we talk about energy. Like, I think there's this big misconception that fear is a bad thing and that you shouldn't be afraid and that you don't get that emotion of fear. Well, that's not always positive. But for me, when my proverbial back is up against the wall, I promise you I am the most clear thinking human being and I can solve a problem so clear when I'm forced to because of what we would typically call fear. Right. And so to me, my productive energy is the most optimal. And I'm not going to say fear, but I like to put the pressure of someone depending on me for something. Right. Like if this isn't solved or if we don't do this or if we don't hit this target, something or someone is let down. And so that's always my most productive energy state when something or someone depends on me being a part of it. So you're using pressure as a performance enhancer. I love I thrive under it. Yes. I'm not saying that's a good thing, Haley. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I purposely put myself there. I purposely put myself there. Right. You, you, you, you invited in, you know, I once, I just last week I was in my writing, I said, you know, I don't think pressure is the enemy. Pressure is the invitation, the invitation to show up, the invitation to take responsibility to the invitation to, you know, provide for someone to lead someone or something. And that pressure is, there's such a negative connotation to it. So that's why I'm saying it's not always positive. It's productive thinking. Anywhere we're at, anything we're going through, good or bad, again, just to use simple black and white terms, we can use for productive thinking, productive emotions too, productive body, physiology, and productive behavior. And that's the optimum energy flow. I love it. I love it. So I want to take it a step further because you're the masterclass guru, and I know you can give us the masterclass version on this. To me, part of being productive with our energy and with our flow also means being prepared. And as one of the best athletes I've ever known, you, right, I know that you put more time in being prepared than you did almost anything. Right. Like, you know, the old saying practice makes perfect. I say preparation leads to excelling. Right. So talk to us about productive energy as it relates to preparation as well. Sure. Yesterday was an athlete day, but I do obviously consult and coach in the corporate world as well as the health and wellness. Yesterday was an athlete day and I was working with two athletes, collegiate level, looking to go pro, looking to go to the national team, looking to make the Olympics. One's a diver, one's a skier. And for both, all we focused on was the preparation. so I know what their goals are they know what their goals are great right we don't have to we don't have to talk about that how do we show up to competition and some of them like to call it rules of regulations some of them like to call it code of conduct some of them like to call it standards of performance or standards of behavior but we have this you know three ideas I like to work in threes of how we're going to conduct ourselves. So one athlete wrote fact over feeling. So I want to show up and I want to be, I want to conduct myself or I'm putting my facts over my feelings. A second one might be, I'm going to, you know, the skier stand up to the course instead of, I want to be there offensive play here. I come instead of the hill coming to me instead of the course coming to me. And then, and then a third one was intentional thinking. So not just spiraling out of control, being intentional. Great. So we've got our code of contact. How are you going to ensure that you can show up that way that you have that behavior that expression when you in competition I had them all for homework go into and start creating their toolbox their bag of tricks if you will. If I'm having a great day, if I'm feeling amazing, energized, passionate, aligned, excited, these are the tools that I can use, whether it's music, whether it's videos, whether it's affirmations, these are the tools that I can use to get into my expression. If I'm having a flat day, this is the music, which will be different. These are the tools that I'm going to use to get into my expression for competition. If I'm having a bad day, a bad moment, this is the tools that I'm going to be using. Without that bag of trick, without that mental toolbox, what if I'm feeling good? What if I'm feeling flat? What if I'm feeling bad? Just as a, again, a simple example. Without that preparation, they have no idea how to get into that code of conduct, how to express themselves that they want to, the way they want to in competition and optimize their performance. So the preparation is the whole ticket. Once you prepare, you don't even have to think about much else. Yeah. Yeah. Domino effect. That is so key. that is so key what do you think from a leader perspective what are leaders missing the mark on when it comes to energy and energy can i share another story and then it'll it'll guide us through this so in addition to sport i used to be still would be if i wasn't traveling so much but i used to be an indoor cycle instructor and inevitably actually i used to be all of it step aerobics, all of the things. But in my indoor cycle class, inevitably, I would always ask one moment in time, everyone look around the room and don't say it out loud, but choose someone in the room that looks the most energized today. And then for this next song, I want you to match or beat, because I'm okay with competition, match or beat their energy. But don't tell anyone who you chose, that's just for you and you alone. And what would happen is one of two things. Some people in the room would not be feeling in a leadership role. Some people in the room would just, you know, happy they showed up. Look around the room, choose someone that's energized, and go ahead and use that person's energy to motivate them to get more energized. Other people in the room want to be chosen. They want to be the leader. So they too stand up a little bit more energized, look a little bit more present because they want to be chosen. So what happened is the whole room just elevated their energy, but the leader is someone who wants to be chosen. They want to lead by example. And it's not doing the work for others because the other people in the room had to measure up, but they walked the walk, they talked the talk. and I love, you know, there are many, many sports these days right now when you, we still have a lot of room to room for improvement, but there's many sports where their coaches look super fit. The coaches, you know, like are, you know, they're not the ones just, you know, standing there telling everyone to run laps. They're in it too. Just yesterday, I was talking to someone who's participating and taking courses and learning while they're leading. And that's what I encourage. I'm always leading. I'm always learning as a leader. I have mentors so that I can be a better leader. Amen to that. Amen to that. So let's segue to that. You also are a mentor, right? And so this is where I know you're humble, but we're going to brag on Dr. Haley for a little bit. Right. Again, you have this unique ability to take people from point A to point Z at the right pace. Right. Challenging them the right way, giving them the right milestones to hit. I love for you to talk to the viewers and listeners just a little bit about how you work with corporations, how you work with individuals. And I know that there's different facets. People come to you for different things, but let's talk about a few of the subject matters that people would hire Dr. Haley for and kind of what those journey maps look like. It goes back to that pressure, embracing pressure as a performance enhancer. Because we have aspirations. Anyone who's calling me up, it's because they have aspirations or they're curious. At the very least, they're curious to see what they're made of. They have a little bit of a belief that they can, you know, that they can do something pretty cool with their life. And so they're calling me because they're anxious about it. And I take that on. My first role as a leader is to that's pressure for me, as I know you feel to make. Right. Like that's pressure for me to to be that role model first and foremost. And so I have to say to myself, bring it on, Haley. AG1 is the daily health drink that combines your multivitamin, pre and probiotics, superfoods, and antioxidants into one simple green scoop. It is one of the easiest things you can do to support your body every day. For me, AG1 became part of my morning routine fast. I make it right before I sit down to plan my day. 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Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies. No min balance required. Chime card on-time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. You've earned that pressure. They're calling you because you've got something to say. So I wear that pressure because I want it. Bring it on. Yes, that's what I'm striving for. And so I hope to transition that into everybody that I work with in the corporate world. You know, I have many in any of my coaching or in my speaking, you know, just ask anyone, how many of you volunteered for the role that you're in? How many of you've, you know, asked for the promotion? You know, that is you asking for more stress in your life. That is you asking for pressure. Why? Because it's fulfilling. Why? Because you're curious about what you're made of. Why? Because you mentioned flow at the very beginning, Mick. flow state, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, hope I said that correctly, the founder of flow. It was initially called his happiness project, but then he realized what made people their happiest was stress, but it was the stress in the face of this pressure, challenge, passion, alignment, confidence. So the best way that I can help others is to really start embracing it, But there a stopping point And again I like to lead by example Inevitably you want to be able to answer this question the pressure that you feeling How did you earn that pressure If you can answer that question then you are putting too much pressure on yourself And so you need to release some of that unnecessary pressure and start getting involved in the learning, in the developing the skillset so that you can one day say, now I've earned the pressure. Right? And so I've, I really try to do that for myself and try to instill that into everyone that I work with in the business and corporate world. That's amazing. That's amazing. So we talked about Haley, the mentor. Now I'm going to talk about Haley, the speaker. So if you haven't already noticed, this is my Dr. Haley Perlis showcase moment right here. Companies that are hiring you or organizations or event planners that are hiring you to speak, what are they getting from Dr. Haley Perlis when you hit the stage? When I think of myself at my best, and again, I'm going to tell you what I'm doing, but this is what we teach others too. And this is what I've learned from my mentors. And I'm now passing along the message. When I am at my very best, which is what people get from me, they're going to get a bright person. It's like I have this sunshine over my mind, body, and soul. And what the sun gives the earth, that type of energy is what my brightness gives me and what I like to just explode onto the audience. I'm also full heart. I like my trophies. I like my praise. I like my paycheck. I like my titles. I like all of it. But when I'm my best, I'm there because I truly care about who I'm talking to, truly care about who I'm working with. I really want to know who's in the audience. I'm not a one size fits all. And when I'm my best self, I'm a strength magnet. When I wake up in the morning and I look at myself in the mirror, I first look at my strengths before I look at my areas of improvement. And when I'm working with you, I'm always, well, my purpose in life is to shine a bright light on all of our strengths so that we can be the champions of our lives. So I'm always looking for strengths. And so one of the things that I believe allows us to embrace the pressure is to lead with a place of confidence. And so when I get up on stage, I have a lot of fears. I know that there's a lot of great speakers out there. And why would someone choose me over them? Bring it back to your core strengths, Haley. Be bright, be full-hearted, and be a strength magnet. And so what I would help everyone else to do is find your core three strengths. And every time you show up, lead with those, expose yourself to your stressors, leading with your strengths. I love that. I love that. What are some of the things you're working on now? What are some new projects you have or new initiatives you have? What's going on with Dr. Haley right now? Well, competitive excellence. So embracing that pressure in the sport world, I am targeting in on everything that you and I have been talking about today, specifically with elite athletes who are looking for that next level and really turning athletes into their best competitor in the life and business and corporate world. This is so great because we've been talking about mentorship and I don't know when listeners and viewers are watching this, but in the new year, in January, 2026, my mentor, Dr. Jack Grappel, who is a New York Times best author, he co-founded a company that was then acquired by Johnson & Johnson. He himself is a legend. He's doing a passion project, a podcast, and he asked me to be a co-host. So we're going to be doing that together as well. And just, you know, doing whatever I can to reach whoever I can because I believe in everyone. That's amazing. I can't wait to be the first subscriber of the new podcast that's coming out. And a guest. I will totally be a guest. And if you want, we can do some teaser videos. I can interview both of you here to get ready to announce it. Whatever I can do to help support you and your mentor, you know, you don't have to ask, count me in. I'm there for it. Oh, great. Mick. Thank you. And right back at you. I mean, I just always, I know on your website, it says the number one podcast, but I've, I've listened and watch all of your podcasts and it, it truly is. That's why I wanted so badly to come back. Well, you know, we have to do on this one. I don't think we did on the first, which is my quick five, right? So rapid fire, five questions, random five questions. They may or may not make sense. They may or may not even flow together, but just five questions. You ready? Okay. All right. Your power boosting breakfast, your go-to breakfast is what? Green juice, celery, apple, ginger, and cucumber. Yes. Every morning, one egg, tomato and cucumber and sourdough bread. You lost me when you said green, green and breakfast. I was, I didn't hear many words you said after that. Well, I like, and then I have like, and then I have, um, you know, like pancakes for dinner. I like breakfast for dinner. And I guess I like breakfast, you know, dinner foods or lunch foods for breakfast. All right. I like, I like breakfast for dinner too. I'm that way. Um, your favorite vacation destination. Beach, take me to the beach. It doesn't really even matter. Um, with soft sand, um, that I can, that I can really put my feet in and just put my feet in the ocean. Okay. I dig that. All right. You're about to go on stage. You need that power boost song, right? You need to get hype. You need to get energetic. What's playing in your ear? What a feeling. Flash dance. There we go. Are you dancing too? Oh my God. Yes. Dancing. It brings me, oh my God. I'm not wearing a sweatshirt with a shoulder tie on. That's reserved for just home life. But that's my favorite movie of all time as a child and as an adult. So, yes, take your passion, make it happen, dance through life. Those are the lyrics. I love it. I love it. What's the biggest lesson that 2025 has taught you? I'm in, I don't want to be a hypocrite. So I am constantly in self-awareness. If I catch myself, you know, I'm really focused on being curious instead of judgmental. And if I catch myself being judgmental, I'm not afraid to own it. Say, Haley, you are judgmental. Let's move on to being more curious. I love that. I love that. And then this question I want to ask you personally, right? As a friend, we're writing the story of Dr. Haley Perlis. What's one word that you want to define your legacy? It's two words. She cares. I felt that too. Yeah. I felt that. Because if there is one thing, I would definitely say that is you. I can't tell the viewers and listeners just how many times you'll just randomly say hello, right? Or introduce me to cool people, showing that you care, telling me, just keep going. Like, I truly appreciate you for who you are. So she cares. Love it, love it. So for everybody that's watching, that's listening, where do you want us to find and follow you again? So I make sure I put that everywhere as well. Yeah, sure. I'm on LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, but my website shares it all. Just drdrhaleyperlis.com. All right, Dr. Haley, I appreciate you again more than you know. Glad we were able to get this one in. You have a new podcast coming out, so we're going to make sure that I have you on one more time at least before the end of the year. We'll get it out really quickly so that we can get your podcast boosted and doing some amazing things. So honored to have you. We got a plan Q1 of 2026 so that we can make sure that leaders, athletes and everyone is in the right mindset to have an amazing 2026. You want to do that one with me, too? I'd love to. I'd love to. Thank you. For everybody watching and listening. Remember, your because is your superpower. Go unleash it. Dr. Haley, thank you so much, dear. Thanks, Nick. that's another powerful conversation on Mick unplugged if this episode moved you and I'm sure it did follow the show wherever you listen share it with someone who needs that spark and leave a review so more people can find their because I'm Rudy Rush and until next time stay driven stay focused and stay unplugged And Doug. Here we have the Lemu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. 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