--:-- Ryan Knutson: Welcome to The Journal, our show about money, business, and power. I'm Ryan Knutson. It's Friday, September 26th. Today, we're joined by Jane Goodall, one of the world's most well-known environmentalists.
--:-- Jane Goodall: Thank you for having me.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: Jane Goodall is best known for her groundbreaking work with chimpanzees in Tanzania's Gombe National Park. She's the founder of the Jane Goodall Institute, which continues to study chimps and runs conservation and educational programs around the world.
--:-- Jane Goodall: Thank you.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: Today, at the age of 91, Goodall is still traveling 300 days a year to give talks, meet with world leaders, and push for green causes. But despite her tireless efforts, the planet continues to warm, forests are being cut down, and endangered species are disappearing.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: And earlier this week, President Trump called climate change a "con job." Goodall has said we're living in "dark times." I had a chance to ask her, does she feel like she's fighting a losing battle?
--:-- Jane Goodall: I think we have a window of time, but it's not a very big window of time. If we get together – ordinary people, corporations, business leaders – we know what we can do to slow down climate change and loss of biodiversity.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: But if we know the solutions, why aren't we resolving the problems? Because there's an idea that continued economic development must come before the environment.
--:-- Jane Goodall: It's crazy because we're on a planet with finite natural resources, growing human and livestock populations. If we don't change the way we do things, it will be too late.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: One of the reasons the world is moving in this direction is because of politics and what governments choose to prioritize. The Trump administration is doing many things that run counter to your mission, expanding oil and gas drilling, cutting funding for foreign aid, cutting funding for renewable energy.
--:-- Jane Goodall: I find it very strange that somebody can say climate change is a con job. When you think about what's happening in this country alone, the frequency and intensity of hurricanes, flooding, droughts, heat waves, fires...
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You got involved in the 2024 election, creating the Vote for Nature initiative to encourage people to vote for green candidates and candidates who support the environment. Why do you think that message lost?
--:-- Jane Goodall: I don't know. People are putting their own personal economic development before thinking about future generations.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've dedicated your life to conservation, saving endangered species, and combating climate change. But by many measures, things aren't looking so good right now. By your own estimate, the population of chimpanzees has fallen by more than half in the last century.
--:-- Jane Goodall: Many experts believe we're in a sixth mass extinction event, largely as a result of human activity.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've also spoken about the importance of poverty alleviation in conservation efforts. Can you explain that?
--:-- Jane Goodall: Yes. Our Jane Goodall Institute method of conservation is working to alleviate poverty because that is one of the main drivers of overconsumption and unsustainable lifestyles.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've had to deal with some tough funding decisions, including a cut in funding from the Trump administration. Can you tell us more about that?
--:-- Jane Goodall: We've had to lay off people who are really good people. We've had to search very hard for alternative sources of funding to fill in the gaps.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've also had to say no to some funding offers that you felt were not in line with your values.
--:-- Jane Goodall: Yes. We've had to say no to some offers, like an oil company that's terribly polluting and not doing anything about it except a bit of greenwashing.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've also spoken about the importance of storytelling in changing people's minds about the environment. Can you explain that?
--:-- Jane Goodall: Yes. I think stories are a powerful way to reach people's hearts and minds.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've also spoken about the tension between economic development and environmental protection. Can you explain that?
--:-- Jane Goodall: Yes. Our community-led conservation program is a good example of how we can work with local communities to find ways of making a living without harming the environment.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've spent a lot of time with humanity's closest relative, the chimpanzee. What do you think are the best qualities that we share with chimps?
--:-- Jane Goodall: Altruism. We can be more altruistic than chimps.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: And what are the worst qualities that we share with chimps?
--:-- Jane Goodall: Brutality. War.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: You've also spoken about the potential for artificial intelligence to be the next intelligent species to dominate the earth. What do you hope AI inherits from humanity?
--:-- Jane Goodall: I hope it inherits altruism, compassion, love, respect, wanting to help, wanting to make this a better world.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: Thank you, Jane Goodall, for joining us today.
--:-- Jane Goodall: Thank you.
--:-- Ryan Knutson: That's all for today. Friday, September 26th. The Journal is a co-production of Spotify and The Wall Street Journal.
