--:-- Mel Robbins: Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I have been looking forward to talking to you all week long because I just got done with spring break. It was such a memorable spring break. I just want you to close your eyes for a second. Picture the absolute spring break perfection. Maybe you imagine beautiful sandy beaches, tropical waters, a Mai Tai in your hand. You're just laying there with a good book like a beached whale, sunning yourself with not a care in the world. It's quiet, nothing to do, nowhere to go. Wouldn't it be amazing? That is not what happened for me over spring break. Nope, not at all. We piled into my husband's pickup truck and we did college tours. It was fun, but I did not get tan and I was not on my best behavior. I will explain why in a minute. But I did learn some really incredible things about trusting your gut and about the outside forces and influences that override what you know is true for you.
--:-- We all know we need to trust our gut. That's like, that's duh. The thing is how. So today you and I are talking about gut decisions, how to make them, why we need to make them. And we're going to do that in a couple of ways. First of all, you're going on college tours with me. If you really think about college tours, or even if you didn't go to college, but you were weighing, am I going to go into the military? It's a moment in your life where you have a big decision to make and you're weighing options. And it's also this moment where everybody around you has an opinion. I mean, everybody.
--:-- I am almost embarrassed to tell you how I behaved on one of the tours, but I'm going to do it anyway. I am going to put you right at the scene. That's right. You're going to hear all the details, the hilarious stories and the cringe-worthy things that I did. Capital C cringe-worthy. Then I'm going to grab Oakley and I want him to give you his side of the story because he's got a really interesting take about making a gut decision and tuning out everybody else. And you know, everybody has a story. I am sure you have a story about a time in your life where you had to shut out everybody else, every annoying voice, every cringe-worthy voice. And you had to make a courageous decision. And in fact, my friends, Jesse and Amy, they have two stories that they're going to tell at the end that I know you're going to relate to.
--:-- So on the topic of gut decisions. I'll go first. I remember when I was touring colleges back in the 1800s. No, it was 1985, the spring of my junior year. And we finally get to Hanover, New Hampshire, Dartmouth College. And I knew jack shit about this school. I step out onto the town green and there were students everywhere. They were playing Frisbee. There were dogs running around. And I said, this is college. I remember going back home after that spring break trip with my parents and going into math class. And Mr. Beaver, my math teacher, asked me, what do you think? And I say, oh, I'm going to apply early decision to Dartmouth. And he looks me square in the eye and he says, that's a very hard school to get into. Are you sure? And I said, yeah, I'm sure. And he said, you better not get your hopes up. And he walked away from me. That's all that Mel Robbins needs. Oh yeah, fuck off. Watch me. And I ended up applying ED and I got in, but it was that one person's voice. Oh, it's really hard. That really influenced me. And if I hadn't been such a son of a bitch, it might have made me go, oh, he's right. Who do I think I am?
--:-- And so that brings me to present day. So present day, we go on these college tours with Oak. And, you know, when our daughters looked at universities, I just wanted them to go somewhere that they were going to be happy. I wanted them to fully own the process. And so I went through two college tour processes, just having a ball, Like, oh my God, it's so cool. Okay. Oh, you like this? Oh, you don't like that? Like learning about my kids. Fast forward to last week, I'm realizing as I analyze my own participation in his college process, I'm kind of a freak. He's very clear. I do not want to be in a city. And yet I'm still like, you want to look at BU? Mom, that's in a city. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. You want to look at Syracuse? Mom, it's in a city. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what about Michigan? Mom, it's not in New England. You know, maybe you should look at Colorado schools. Mom, I'd like to stay in New England. I like the fall seasons. Well, what about Elon? Mom, that's in the South. I can't help myself, you guys. I don't know what is wrong with me.
--:-- And I think it's important to share this with you, to confess to you what I did when we got to my alma mater, because I'm kind of embarrassed about it, honestly, because I never thought I was that parent. I always said very vocally to our kids, look, I got to go to the school that I wanted to go to. Your dad got to go to the school he wanted to go to, which was UVM. He freaking loved it. I freaking love Dartmouth. We already had our college experience. You have to choose where you want to be. This is your experience. Holy shit. When Oakley said, mom, I think I'd like to look at Dartmouth. I became a sociopath. Honest to God, I don't know what got into me. And so I'm like trying to be like, not like, oh my God, this is so cruel. I'm like, oh, okay. That sounds like a good idea. Fuck yes. So we pull up on the campus and it looked like the exact same kind of day as when my parents and I pulled up in 1985. Bluebirds guy, kids all over the green, frisbees, dogs. And Oakley steps out and he starts looking around. I'm thinking, I could see him here. Now I'm fast forwarding, right? I'm going, oh yeah, I could see dropping him off. I could see him walking across that green. I'm starting to get invested. I'm starting to think, oh yeah, this is a good pick for us. This would be really cool for us. Something came over me. It's like I became a psycho alum possessed with this alma mater hysteria. And I'm thinking, oh my God, if he goes here and he has an incredible experience, then I'm going to get to relive it in a whole new way. And I will redeem myself and I will get to love this school even more. And I'll get to go to his reunions because I never went to my reunion. And I start to get completely enraptured in the story and I can come up for the games and oh yeah, and then there's winter carnival and oh my God, summer session. I forgot about summer. And I start to get this tornado of enthusiasm. And I loved as we're walking down the stairs and the stairs are made of marble and you can feel like the dip in the stairs because the buildings are so old. And Oakley's, ooh, these stairs are cool. I'm like, that's because these stairs are 200 years old, Oakley. They're the same stairs as when I was there. So we get out on the green and they now separate us out. And there's four tour guides. And the one tour guide on the right is super cool. And he's wearing flip-flops and shorts because of course all the Dartmouth kids wear flip-flops and shorts in April because you know it's New Hampshire in the midwinter mud season and I'm like Oakley we got to go with Nico. So now I'm even pushing him to pick the purse because I'm thinking if he gets that tour guide because the kid plays ultimate Oakley plays ultimate he's like a really kind of cool kid Oakley's into theater okay we're going to get this kid so I'm like inching Oakley the tour starts and I am that parent I'm pushing us toward the front you got to hear him you got to get up close, get up close. He's like, mom, Jesus, I can't help myself. You guys, he's talking about the credits and they have a wellness credit. And I'm like, do they still require you to pass a swim test to graduate? And then the college tour went right past my freshman dorm window. I had a flashback to the last day of freshman year when completely unorganized, undiagnosed, anxiety-ridden ADHD Mel had not planned on the fact that in order to get home to Michigan, she was going to have to board a flight later that day. So I finish exams. I walk into my dorm room and I have a complete fucking panic attack because I don't know what to do with my shit. So you know what I did? I popped the screen off the window and I started putting stuff out the window. And then I put a bunch of pieces of paper on it that said free and I left. That's what I did. from the dorm fridge that we had bought to lamps to the rug to odds and end right there on the lawn. At one point on the tour, as I was hanging back, Chris puts his hands on my shoulder and just ever so gently pulls me back towards him. Mel, let's let Oakley go on the tour. Oh, you're right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just so excited. I'm so excited. But I pulled myself together because I don't want to be pressuring my kid. I don't want to be that annoying alum or mom on the tour who won't shut up. I know I need to give him the space to just have his own experience. So we just started hanging back and Chris and I distanced ourselves further and further away from the group just to give Oak some space. And I imagined that I put imaginary duct tapes on my mouth just so, even when I was tempted, that I didn't say anything. And for the rest of the tour, I was back to my old self. I was good. And then a funny thing happened. The tour was over. The group started to disperse. And Oakley turns around and the first thing he says is, so what did you think? And I said to him, it doesn't matter what we think. It matters what you think. And I telling you this because that moment right there that moment when we were standing there with Oakley and he turned around and instead of telling us what he thought, he asked us for our opinion. What do you think? That's what we all do. We know deep inside how we feel. and yet instead of just leaning into it, we turn around and we're like, well, what do you think? And I point this out because there's some decision that you have to make and you've got somebody annoying, like I was annoying at the beginning part of the tour going, oh, you'd be here and oh, you should do this and you should do that and you should do the other thing and you should break up with this person, but you should go with that person, but maybe you should be busy. Or you don't. We have this reflexive nature, don't we? Where instead of tuning in and going, I could see myself here, or this relationship is over, or I don't want to do this job anymore, or could I see myself here? What do I want to do next? We turn around and we go, what do you think? And that's where we lose our power. Because it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, because you're the one that's going to have to live with the decision. And so over the course of the week, we toured a bunch more colleges and I noticed that Oakley was becoming faster and faster at getting to either a clear yep or a clear no. It was like within minutes, he was just boom, crossing a college off the list, off the list, off the list. Don't need to go on the tour. Let's not waste our time. It was incredible to see how quickly he was just tapping into his instincts. He was rolling with what he felt. And so I wanted you to hear not only his side of the college tour thing, but I also wanted you to hear his take on how he was getting to a yes or a no and making those gut decisions. And we're going to do that after a quick word from our sponsors. Stay with us.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Welcome back. I'm Mel Robbins. And today you and I are talking about gut decisions and how important it is to tune out the other voices around you so that you can feel what's right for you. I promised that I would grab Oakley and bring him up here so he could share with you his version of our college tours. And I also want to ask him a few questions about how he was able to just get so quickly to a yes or a no about these colleges we were visiting. And here he is.
--:-- Oakley: What's up, guys? What's up?
--:-- Mel Robbins: What's up, Oak, is I wanted to talk about college tours. Yeah.
--:-- Oakley: Well, it was actually great. I loved spending the time with you, and I loved watching you go through the decision-making process. And we went to the first school. Remember that one?
--:-- Mel Robbins: I do. Hard now. How did you know?
--:-- Oakley: Just my whole body. What's a no feel like? Just very uninterested, unenthused, feels very closed off. Just I don't want to be there anymore. I feel out of place. That's what a no feels like for me.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Okay. Second school. It was a yes. Big yes. Dartmouth? Yes, Dartmouth College. was it weird to have a parent on the tour with you that went to that school yes yeah you can call me out yeah it was weird how come it was weird because on the tour we'd be walking and the tour guide would say something and then you'd be able to go into depth about it You'd talk about all these mini traditions that happen. Was that annoying? Yeah. I wasn't going to let your opinion or dad's opinion affect me because this is the next four years of my life. And so no matter how you felt or what you said, I was not going to let it affect me. There was one point where you, where we were walking and you were saying something about how my application for Dartmouth, when I ED here, it's going to need to show this and this and this. And I turn to you and I just say, how do you even know I'm going to apply here? Because you had already had this vision of me applying and going here, but I wasn't going to let that get in my way.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So how did you get to a yes? What does a yes feel like?
--:-- Oakley: Yeah, a yes is super open. You feel lots of possibilities. You feel like you're in the right place. You feel comfortable. you can see a bunch of different opportunities and possibilities in this space. Oh, that's a great way to put it, that you feel super open. You feel expansive when it's a yes, like you're going to grow, that there's possibility.
--:-- Mel Robbins: You know, there was something else that happened later in the week during the college tours that I can't stop thinking about. Do you remember one of the schools we visited? They didn't even allow the parents to go on the same tour as their kids. I mean, that is just so brilliant. Yeah.
--:-- Oakley: When you're a kid and you're touring colleges, your parent is essentially your guide and you look to them for answers and praise or denial. And so maybe you're liking a college. So you want to see if they also like it. And if they don't, you may feel as though, oh, well then I shouldn't like this one because they don't like this one or I should like this one, but because they like this one. And so the tour guide split it up because when you're on the tour, you no longer have someone to turn to and ask if they like it or not. You just are on that tour with yourself having to feel about it.
--:-- Mel Robbins: I think that's an incredible metaphor. How quickly could you tell when I'm like, I don't like this canvas? Pretty quickly. There are people around you whose energy impacts you and it screws with your ability to know what's true for you. Whether it's your friends or it's your family or it's your boyfriend or your girlfriend or significant other, there is somebody that you turn to and go, what do you think? And they're right on the tour with you in life. Right. And when I think about how you make gut decisions, I come back to this visual of imagine all those people that you want to turn and go, so what do you think about this? Imagine them being on a different tour. You're there alone assessing what you need to do. Right. And so you're just in your head thinking about what you think of it. Exactly.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Oak, thank you for explaining how you tune into your instincts because I didn't know how to do that when I was your age. Mostly. I fumbled forward and backwards through life. I had no idea how to read or feel the decision the way that you do. That is just so cool for somebody your age. Thank you, Mom.
--:-- Oakley: Thank you, Mom. Don't lose that, no matter how annoying I get.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Don't lose the ability to tune me out. And just keep on feeling your way into the decisions, bud. I think you are going to Head in the right direction. Thanks for being here.
--:-- Mel Robbins: All right. As we lean further into this topic of learning how to trust your gut, I want to tell you something. This is the truth. Your instincts are always right. And the issue isn't trusting them. The issue is that you're afraid. You're afraid to make a decision that you know feels right for you. So let's not even talk about trusting your gut. Let's just focus on the real issue. Courage. The reason why you're afraid to make a decision that feels right for you is because you're surrounded by other voices that instead of feeling what you need to feel and then finding the courage to act in accordance with it, you still stop. You turn around. You look around and you go, what do you think? You turn to the person you're dating or married. What do you think? You think about your, what are my parents going to, what are my friends going to think? What are other people going to think? you're still hanging around people whose energy is influencing you or it's cringy or it's overwhelming or it's too dominant you better believe other people's opinions are still clouding your judgment and so we're going to lean into this metaphor this metaphor of being on a group tour and how there are times in your life when you need to notice that you're turning around and wondering what everybody else thinks and that you actually have to leave the tour. You got to step away from it. In order to make the decision that's right for you, you're going to have to step on a different tour. You're going to have to leave all those other voices behind. You're going to have to join in with the future you, with the person that is headed in the direction that you know you want to go. Because when you step on a solo tour, a tour that's led by the future you, you're never, ever, ever going to make the wrong decision.
--:-- Mel Robbins: Now, everybody in your family may be like, hey, what do you do? Why are you going over that way? Why aren't you going with us? We're going to this. And you're like, I don't want to go in that direction. I want to go over there. That's why it requires courage. You can't transfer. What are people going to think? Get divorced? We're Irish Catholic. People don't do that here. You mean apply to nursing school after you're divorced? You can't just do that. Oh, yes, you can. The more you realize that there is power when you listen to yourself, when you tap into courage, when you step away from the group think and you listen to your think, your instincts are right. The problem is never your instincts. The problem is your fear. And the fact that you're so scared of what everybody else thinks, you're scared of upsetting mom, you're scared of what everybody else is going to say, that you don't listen to what your heart is telling you is right for you to do.
--:-- Mel Robbins: So I want to make sure you're aware of what a no, a big N-O feels like. And there's a couple questions that you can ask yourself so you can feel it. Does it shrink you? Does it make you feel stuck? Do you lose your energy? That's a hell freaking no. You can feel it. Or is it a yes? There's possibility. There's growth. It's kind of scary, but there's expansion here. You could see yourself a year ahead in this different life Yeah it going to disappoint people Yes it going to require change Yes it going to require you to learn something new Yes it going to require you to step away from that group, that pack, that way of thinking, that direction that you've been heading. And that is freaking terrifying. That's why you don't do it. But we're going to change that. Because there's a different tour. There's a different option. The future you is trying to say, psst, don't go over there. Come over here. Come on, we're going in this direction. Let everybody else go in the other direction. You come with me.
--:-- Mel Robbins: And this is so important because way too often other people, they will lead you in the exact opposite direction that you need to go. And you're going to want to hear this story that my friend Amy is about to tell you, because it is a moment in her life with her business where she was going to do something crazy bold and everybody around her was like, don't do it.
--:-- Amy: Yeah, sure. So my story is that I was in a mastermind, which is kind of like a tour, a bunch of people together doing things with their businesses that, um, that they want to do achieving goals together and patting each other on the back and like supporting each other. So one day I showed up at the mastermind and I said, you know what, you guys, this is what I'm going to do. It's my next big thing. I am going to make what I made last year in this next month. Wow. Yeah. It's a thing that people do. I mean, it's not like it wasn't my idea. I had heard it from somebody else. I wanted to take my business to the next level. And if you really believe in yourself or want to find out what's holding you back, try to make what you made last year in one month. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. So since we're talking about gut instinct. When you heard somebody say that you can make a quantum leap, if you're willing to find the courage to go, that's it. Next month, I'm making what I made last year, next month in my business. What was the process of even going, I'm doing that? Because that's pretty courageous and bold. Was there something that happened? What happened? I just felt like I want that. Quantum leap. That sounds amazing. That sounds like living life. That sounds like I'm going to be in a different spot and that that is going to change me. And I think I'm going to really love that. It's almost like if you think about the tour analogy, it is like the future is like, no, no, no, come over here. Exactly. It really was. It was like, this is your next step. And it's a big one. Wow. I love that. Yeah. I love that. It was an amazing feeling.
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