--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We may never know what Pope Francis thought of converted Catholic J.D. Vance because he died shortly after meeting our vice president.
--:-- [Discussion of Pope Francis and J.D. Vance]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The world will miss its cool pope, who is best known for caring about the poor, rejecting the frills of the papacy, and talking smack about American politicians.
--:-- [Discussion of Pope Francis' legacy]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But he also dropped an album once. It's a lot of prayer mixed with a lot of straight-up pop music. Since it's Earth Day, here's a taste of cuidar el planeta, or take care of the planet.
--:-- [Discussion of Pope Francis' album]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What comes after Pope Francis? Coming up on Today Explained.
--:-- [Support for Today Explained]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for Today Explained comes from Adio. Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management platform that Adio says is built for the next era of companies.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A powerful data structure adapts to your business model, sinks in all your contacts in minutes, and enriches your business with actionable data.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio's features]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Adio says it also allows you to create those email sequences, those real-time reports, those powerful automations, which they claim can help you build what matters most, your company.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio's benefits]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can go to addio.com slash todayexplained to get 15% off your first year. That's A-T-T-I-O dot com slash todayexplained.
--:-- [Support for Today Explained]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from strawberry.me. Be honest. Are you happy with your job? Or are you stuck in one you've outgrown or never wanted in the first place?
--:-- [Discussion of strawberry.me]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Sure, you can probably list the reasons for staying, but are they actually just excuses for not leaving? Let a career coach from strawberry.me help you get unstuck.
--:-- [Discussion of strawberry.me's services]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Discover the benefits of having a dedicated career coach in your corner. Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer.
--:-- [Support for Today Explained]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: is a research associate at the Institute of Orthodox Christian Studies in England's Cambridge. We reached out to her to ask her about Conclave 2025.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Yeah, so the Catholic Church is like so many, I think, global religious bodies in a sort of moment of transition, right? We're in a moment of greater religious transition than we have been since the Enlightenment, right? Really in the past 300 years.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And there's a couple of factors. You know, we all sort of, particularly in the United States, have a really good understanding of this idea of kind of culture war and this divide between progressives and traditionalists, which is definitely a factor in this decision.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: But there's also a geographic element to this as well. The Catholic Church, like Christianity writ large, is in demographic trouble in Western Europe and North America.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Yet it is growing exponentially in Asia, Africa, Latin America, places that are kind of collectively called the Global South.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: The Catholic population in Africa has grown significantly, from around 185 million in 2013 to an estimated 230 million by the end of 2025.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: The Catholic Church in South Korea has shown exponential growth in the last 50 years.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: There were about half a million Catholics in the country in the 1960s, but today there are nearly 6 million.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And so there's increasing pressure to have a pope who reflects that reality.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Of course, this last pope was the first Latin American pope.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: He was from Argentina, but he was also the son of Italian immigrants, right? So there's this kind of, he sort of occupied this middle space.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I'm sure the church is elated to be growing in the global south, but I'm sure it's equally miserable to be shrinking in Western Europe and North America.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Why is it shrinking in Western Europe and North America? Do you know?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So this is the conundrum. Most every bit of good data we have about why people leave the Catholic Church and leave Christianity writ large is largely centered around these issues of gender and sexuality, primarily the failure of the Catholic Church to become more progressive with respect to women, with respect to LGBT people.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And this is the tension then because these are the factors that are driving people out of the Catholic Church in North America and Western Europe.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And yet at the same time, people are much more conservative on these issues in places like Africa and Asia where the church is growing.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Latin America is a little bit more of a wild card, but overall Catholics are more socially conservative in those places.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Got it. So there's this tension in the Catholic Church, just like there's this tension most everywhere we look right now, between progressivism and conservatism.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: How is that going to factor in to this conclave to decide the next pope?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Well, for many people, particularly conservatives, traditionalists in the Catholic Church, the reign of Pope Francis was one that was very, very difficult.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And they see this as an opportunity to return to a more traditional papacy in the model of Pope Benedict, Pope John Paul II.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And there are some people in the progressive camp, particularly in North America and Western Europe, who don't think Pope Francis went far enough, that he didn't go far enough in addressing inclusion for women and LGBT people, and that he didn't go far enough in addressing the sexual abuse scandal, which has, of course, been at the center of Catholic life in many ways and Catholic politics for the past two decades.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: The conclave that elected Pope Francis met in 2013.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: How will this conclave in 2025 look differently from that one?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: The primary way it will look different is that Pope Francis has now appointed 80% of the cardinal electors.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So that is the cardinals in the College of Cardinals who are allowed to vote for Pope.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: 80% of those, 108 of the 135 have been appointed by Pope Francis.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Is that the papal equivalent of like trying to pack the Supreme Court?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Yeah, a little bit. Absolutely.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And you know, I would say about 50 of those electors are really what we might call like a pastoralist in the image of Pope Francis.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I think it's important to remember that as much as we think of Pope Francis as sort of a reforming pope, he didn't change Catholic doctrine all that much, right?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: He pursued Catholic doctrine in a way that one might call much more pastoral.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So, you know, the example of the little boy whose atheist father had died, Pope Francis didn't change Catholic doctrine to say that non-believers, that the unbaptized would go to heaven.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: What he did is he told that little boy that his father was probably in heaven, right?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: That's a different bent than changing Catholic doctrine.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And I would say, you know, 50 of the cardinals now, give or take, depending on how you want to cut this, are really in that theological, pastoral, papal model.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Okay, so who are the contenders in this conclave? Do we have some frontrunners?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Yes, we have some pretty clear frontrunners at this point, particularly in the immediate period after the Pope's death.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Some people have really emerged.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: In the traditionalist camp, the real frontrunner is a man named Cardinal Robert Serra from Guinea.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: All the front runners in the traditionalist camp, more or less, are Africans.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: There is a Hungarian, but more or less they're Africans.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So Cardinal Robert Serra, if you go on a lot of traditionalist Catholic social media at the moment, you are going to see a lot of love for Cardinal Robert Serra.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: He is a very traditionalist cardinal, a very traditionalist theologian and pastor.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Should not a biological man use the men's restroom? How simple can that concept be?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Certainly he's very traditional, one might even say a bit draconian on issues of gender and sexuality, but also on liturgical issues, questions like the Latin Mass, things that people outside the Catholic Church or outside of sort of religious circles don't tend to debate.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: You also have sort of the far-reach, what I would call the far-reach progressives, right? People like Cardinal José Mendoza from Portugal.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: He is only 59, and so it is very unlikely he would become Pope, quite frankly.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: But he's very progressive, I think, in the ways that we sort of think about progressiveness even in an American political sense.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So for example, he has shown some real sympathies for a Benedictine nun who is interested in the ordination of women and who is pro-choice.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: He's the far end of Cardinal Sarah, right?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: What we'll probably get, though, and right now, Vegas, the betting odds, the last time I checked, um, we're on, um, this Filipino cardinal, you can always trust the Vegas betting odds because people actually put money on it.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Yeah, a holy holy bet, yeah, I love it, like actually bet on it.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Cardinal Lewis Tagale, um, from the Philippines.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: This is, I think, the inspired choice, not to be too punny about it.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: He is sometimes called the Asian Francis.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So he is theologically, I would say, very moderate, but pastorally sort of open in the way that we saw with Francis.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Many things are changing, but the living conditions of some people have remained stagnant or even worse.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And I call this a scandal.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: The Philippines is one of the most Catholic countries in the world.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: It's in the heart of Asia.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: You would get a non-white pope, which I think is important.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: At this point, who is also sort of in keeping with the general ideological, theological, philosophical mood of the conclave at the moment.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Got it.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: And you didn't mention perhaps the most delicious choice, Pier Batista Pizzaballa.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Why is that?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I think that particularly his very outspoken position on the conflict in Gaza would probably disqualify him at this point.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Interesting, because another famous Catholic who had outspoken views on the conflict in Gaza was Pope Francis himself.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Is that to say that that turned off this conclave?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I think that it's one thing when you have a sitting pope who's able to take those hard lines and who has developed a good relationship around Catholic relations with Judaism and Israel.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Pope Francis had a great record for a pope in terms of his relationship with Israel and his relationship with Judaism.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: It's different when you bring in a new pope, I would argue.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Hmm.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So it sounds like Asian Francis is the favorite and it sounds like Asian Francis would perhaps just, you know, be a passing of the baton, so to speak, in terms of Francis's progressive politics.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: What does that mean for the Catholic Church in the years ahead if indeed Asian Francis is selected?
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I think if we have Cardinal Tagale become the next pope, it is a sort of continuation of the Franciscan model.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: First, it does signal in some ways this not turning away from Western Europe and North America, but an acknowledgement that where the church is growing, what the average Catholic looks like is changing.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I think for many people, this approach, this what we might call a Francis approach to the tensions within the Catholic Church is the way in which the majority of the cardinals understand the best approach to be.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: If you allow flexibility, regional flexibility, local flexibility, parish level flexibility in how that doctrine is applied, you can reconcile these real tensions over ideology, over theology, over doctrine, over morality that exists within the Catholic Church today and really exists within, you know, every Christian tradition and every society at this point.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: So if we get Cardinal Togale, we might continue to see Mariachi Mass in the southwestern United States.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: Absolutely.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: I think in terms of liturgical reforms, the liturgical reforms of Vatican II and beyond, as much as there are people on traditionalist Latin maps Facebook groups and discords around the world who would like to see that change no pope is going to be able to unring that bell, I don't think even Cardinal Sarah could do that.
--:-- [Discussion of Conclave 2025]
--:-- Research Associate: The biggest movie in the country is Sinners, but when Today Explained returns, we're going to talk about Saints.
--:-- [Support for Today Explained]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for today's show comes from Adio. What is Adio?
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Adio is an AI-native customer relationship management system built specifically for the next era of companies.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They say it's extremely powerful, adapts to your unique data structures and scales with any business model.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: According to Adio, Adio takes less than a minute to set up, and within seconds you will have your email and calendars synced.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You'll see all your relationships in a fully-fledged platform, they say, all enriched with that actionable data.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And they say you can build AI-powered automations and use its research agent to tackle some of your most complex processes to seize so that you can focus on what matters, building your company.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can join industry leaders such as Flatfile, Replicate, Modal, and so much more.
--:-- [Discussion of Adio]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can go to adio.com slash todayexplained to get 15% off your first year.
--:-- [Support for Today Explained]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for this show comes from Macy's. It's almost fall, and that means it's time to cycle your wardrobe to the cold setting.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Because while everyone loves a breezy summer outfit, let's be real, layering is even more fun.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's why Macy's Fall Fashion Guide has everything you need to piece together the perfect look for you.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's your one-stop shop for fall's latest trends and must-haves, curated by their experts.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Add a statement shoe to your collection, like the calf hair loafers from Steve Madden.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Or tap into your romantic side with flowy dresses from Cece and sheer pieces from INC.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You can even throw in some textural layers for contrast, like a faux fur bomber jacket from Karl Lagerfeld Paris.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Whether your old favorite sweater or coat is on its last threads, or you're just craving a new vibe to switch things up, Macy's has got you covered this season.
--:-- [Discussion of Macy's]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Find the perfect layering pieces for you by exploring the Macy's Fall Fashion Style Guide.
--:-- [Support for Today Explained]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Support for the show today comes from Life Kit, the podcast from NPR.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What's in your life kit? I'm asking.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They didn't ask that.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Every day you have to make choices that might shape the direction of your life, but you can't flip to the back of the book to find an answer key.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Instead, you can listen to the Life Kit podcast from NPR.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Life Kit offers real stories about common issues like relationships, finances, parenting, and your career.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If you're looking to move with more intention or just need thoughtful guidance on living better, Life Kit delivers strategies to help you make meaningful, sustainable change.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: From fitness routines to mental resilience, navigating personal goals to tackling burnout, Each episode is full of relevant insights and clear takeaways about things we all could use a little help with.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: LifeKit wants to help you approach your own life with confidence and clarity and walk away with a game plan you can implement right away.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Enough from me. Go listen to the show, LifeKit.
--:-- [Discussion of Life Kit]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's a podcast from NPR.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Before Pope Francis died, the biggest Catholic news of the week was going to be the canonization of the first millennial saint.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We here at Today Explained were on top of the news because we like to keep tabs on our millennials, but we were not nearly as on top of it as this guy.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Michael DiGiovine. I'm a professor of anthropology at Westchester University.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When we spoke with Michael this morning, there was a pizza box with a cartoon Pope Francis on it sitting right behind him.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Hey, you know, Philly people, we are proud people.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, I say we, I'm from North Jersey, so pizza is really important.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So I wouldn't even call this pizza.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But anyway, it's pizza boxes that says, welcome, Pope Francis, Philadelphia 2015.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There's a picture of the Pope waving in front of the skyline of Philadelphia.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: All right, enough about the pizza. onto the main event, the first millennial Saint Carlo Cutis.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I think it was one of his big projects that he did.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: The idea emerged probably right as Pope Francis was becoming Pope.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Carlo had died in 2006.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Word was spreading.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I mean, what happens with these popular saints is that there is this grassroots movement that usually happens.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And then when it gets really big, then the church kind of comes in and makes it official.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So he was born in London to Italian parents who were business people.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: The father was in insurance and the mom was in publishing.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He was raised by nannies from Ireland and Poland.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So they were the ones that were religious.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: The parents always said they weren't really practicing and Catholics, they weren't very religious.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But somehow I guess that religiosity passed to him from his nannies who raised him.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And he was already kind of seen as a kid, at least a lot of the stories go, as somebody who was a religious but down-to-earth kid.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And because of course he used to say, I have everything, I have a house, I have the love of my parents, I have all what I need, and these people are without anything.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: How can I be quite peaceful seeing this poorness?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So there's a story of course where he's getting maybe bullied in school, like a lot of teenagers suffer.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So it's a very relatable story.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And one of the nannies said, why don't you just hit him back? Like why don't you stick up for yourself?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And he said, well Jesus wouldn't want me to do that.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: A lot of the stories emphasize the fact that he had some struggles, he loved Nutella had struggles with his weight, you know, and self-esteem.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: It's very, very relatable.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He played Halo, so it's not like he's playing only, you know, he's playing the PlayStation, but he's playing Pokemon and Halo.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He played Halo, and now he's going to have a Halo.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Yeah, and now he's going to have a Halo.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But, I mean, it's not a very, like, religious game, right? I mean, it's kind of a shoot-up game, sort of.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But, yes, he will have it.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Hopefully, he will have a Halo.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I mean, he is the saint of the internet, or he will be, probably.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And that because he did use not only PlayStations but he was a computer programmer and he programmed some of the earliest online virtual exhibitions one on Eucharistic miracles which are miracles that the bread that Catholics believe not just that the bread is a symbolic of the host, but also that it actually is Jesus's body.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And so he did this whole repository, this database that he made web pages for each of these back in 2000, the early 2000s.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He put that online and then Marian apparitions.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So when Mary appears to people, he did a whole virtual exhibition on that.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: To get a halo, you gotta do a few miracles.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Those who are familiar with the Catholic Church will know.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: What were young Carlo's miracles?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: There was a young boy, I think he was five years old, his name was Matthias, who had, he was born with an annular pancreas.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And an annular pancreas means that the pancreas was wrapped around the intestine.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And so it was very, very difficult for him to keep food down or to really get nourished.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So he was getting malnourished, not because he wasn't being fed enough, but because he had this pancreas problem.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And so they took him there to venerate the, you know, to see the relic and to venerate.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And the mom said, what do you, you know, what do you want to ask Carla? What do you want to ask God through Carla?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And he said, I just don't want to vomit as much. I don't want to throw up as much.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: You know, that was his big thing.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And it was very, people heard it, right?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So it was verified that he said this in the presence of the relic.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: When he went home, apparently he ate a whole steak and French fries and didn't throw up.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And he was, the pancreas looked normal and there's no medical explanation for it.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So a miraculous meal.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: With that steak, it was steak.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I mean, that's heavy duty.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: What about the second miracle? Is there a second one?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: There was a Costa Rican student, a girl who was studying in Florence, Italy, and had a bicycle accident, had a traumatic brain injury.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: It was very bad, and the mom came.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And Florence is not so, so far from Assisi, where Carlo is buried.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And she made the trip.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: It was about two hours away.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And she made the trip to Assisi, prayed at this point in time, his body is on display for veneration.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And that's really fascinating how he looks.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And it's a really important part of his story.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He's in jeans and Nikes and, you know, that kind of thing.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Very, very relatable.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And she prayed.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: The mom prayed in front of the sarcophagus.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And when she got back to Florence, apparently her daughter was awake and, you know, inexplicably cured from that.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So that was verified at the end of last year by Pope Francis.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And he declared, okay, everything is set.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And we're going to do this ceremony during the Jubilee year.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And unfortunately, he didn't last.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But I know that that was a big deal for him because this new saint really epitomizes all of the messaging that Pope Francis has done.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And there were kind of the reforms of the church.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: How many new saints are there? How many did Pope Francis sign off on?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: There's a lot.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He officially canonized 942 saints.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Whoa.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I do have to say that number sounds bigger than it is because 813 of those were actually one group of martyrs from the 1400s.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But even if you take away, you know, you count that as one, that's still like 150, you know, saints.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: For 12 years, you know, he did Mother Teresa.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: You know, at the beginning.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He also did three popes.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He did all the three modern popes, Pope John XXIII, who started Vatican II, Pope Paul VI, who kind of concluded Vatican II, and then Pope John Paul II as well.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So, you know, those four are really huge saints.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And then Carlo would have been the fifth really, you know, major kind of rock star kind of saints that people still remembered that they related to, that they had, you know, in their mind.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Yeah, you're talking about this kid in league with Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Is he really that big a deal for the Catholic Church?
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I think he is.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And I think, you know, Mother Teresa is a great example, more than Pope John Paul II, because, you know, there are kind of two classes of these saints, the popular saints.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And then there's kind of the religious people like popes and priests, who a lot of people don't really even identify with.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But, you know, the church hierarchy kind of makes saints.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But Pope John Paul II was very transcendent.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: I mean, he was a rock star in his life.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: People thought he was a living saint at the time.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: It was very clear that he was.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: He really guided the church through communism and all of that.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: So he was really important.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: But Mother Teresa, I think, is more along the lines of who Carlo is and more along the lines of what the message of what saints should be that Francis gives us.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: Pope Francis had really changed the Church and kind of focused less on the pomp and circumstance and really doubled down on being humble, being merciful, giving to the poor, and to be, you know, just the best normal person that you can be.
--:-- [Discussion of the first millennial saint]
--:-- Michael DiGiovine: And are we going to assume that one day Pope Francis himself will
