--:-- Sean Rameswaram: On paper, George Herbert Walker Bush looks like one of the biggest winners in American history.
--:-- Ken Rudin: He served in World War II. He becomes a war hero. He comes home and makes a bunch of money in oil. He wins a seat in the House of Representatives. He becomes UN ambassador. He becomes head of the Republican National Committee. He becomes head of the CIA. He serves two terms as vice president before winning the presidency for himself.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So why is it that so many people remember him as a big old loser?
--:-- Ken Rudin: I asked Ken Rudin. He hosts the Political Junkie podcast and covered George H.W. Bush for NPR.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He said to get to the loser thing, you have to start with his biggest win. The fact that George Bush won in 1988 when he beat Massachusetts Governor Michael Dukakis, I mean, that was pretty significant in the fact that it was, in effect, a third Reagan term.
--:-- Ken Rudin: Ronald Reagan was elected in 1980 and 1984 with George Bush as his vice president. And with the last time a party won more than two in a row was in the 1930s and 1940s.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The Republicans were trying to accomplish what hadn't been done since Roosevelt and Truman and, of course, hasn't been done since as well.
--:-- Ken Rudin: Three years into Bush's first term, he has unprecedented approval ratings. If you asked 10 people how they felt about him, just about nine would say he was doing fantastic.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: In March of 1991, his record, his polling numbers in the Gallup poll had an 89% approval.
--:-- Ken Rudin: This was after the very successful Gulf War against Saddam Hussein, his incursion into Kuwait. And he was responsible for the Americans with Disabilities Act. That was a big civil rights accomplishment for President Bush.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He also got Congress to pass the Clean Air Act amendments that helped the environment significantly. And fixing the savings and loan industry.
--:-- Ken Rudin: People said that, you know, Democrats are not going to even bother putting up a candidate against him. Al Gore, Dick Gephardt, Mario Cuomo, all the top Democrats, because nobody could beat him.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's why it's so shocking that Bush ended up a one-term president, a loser.
--:-- Ken Rudin: He lost in this totally new and singular way. George H.W. Bush was one of a kind in victory and one of a kind in defeat.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was basically something known as, I checked the dictionary, it doesn't exist anymore. It was called a moderate Republican.
--:-- Ken Rudin: And those kind of moderate Republicans were not involved, didn't care about social issues. He was not, you know, excited about abortion or things that would tear up the country.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was kind of somebody who wanted to unite the country. I will keep America moving forward, always forward, for a better America, for an endless, enduring dream, and a thousand points of light.
--:-- Ken Rudin: This is my mission, and I will complete it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: When he said he wanted a kinder and gentler nation, he believed in the goodness of people.
--:-- Ken Rudin: So, I mean, he didn't accomplish as much as he would have liked. Of course, having a Democratic Congress throughout his term didn't really help his cause.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But even in his four years, I think he showed a sense of decency and caring about the country.
--:-- Ken Rudin: showed in the things that he got past.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What were his biggest vulnerabilities heading into the 92 election, if he had any?
--:-- Ken Rudin: He never had that vision thing. And Bush loved to talk about that, the vision thing, because one of his biggest problems is that he followed eight years of Ronald Reagan.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Nobody was going to become another Ronald Reagan, even though he was the loyal vice president.
--:-- Ken Rudin: So he had that against him.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And the other thing against him is the fact that the economy was sputtering and he had a Democratic Congress who didn't want to do him any favors that would help his reelection.
--:-- Ken Rudin: And the fact that conservatives were not happy with him because he reneged on his read my lips, no new taxes pledge by the summer of 1990.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So with conservatives against him, with Democrats against him, with the economy poor, he had those strikes against him.
--:-- Ken Rudin: And that was what he faced going into the 1992 reelection year.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So what's the first sign of trouble?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Joining us now from Manchester, New Hampshire, Republican challenger to President Bush, Patrick Buchanan, often an analyst on this broadcast.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: Mr. Bush's problem the last three years is whenever it comes to a crunch with Congress, for example, over the new taxes, George Bush walks up and capitulates, caves in compromises.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The problem is, I think, is the president's disposition and style and his basic lack of conviction and philosophy and ideas.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: Pat Buchanan was a populist former Nixon speechwriter going into a perfect place like New Hampshire And the reason I say perfect is because while the rest of the country was involved in a serious recession it was a depression in New Hampshire.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And I was there during the 92 campaign, going around in Concord and Manchester and looking at the boarded up stores and the once thriving cities that I'd seen in 88 during the 88 campaign, was gone in 92.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: And so Bush paid the price for that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Pat Buchanan took advantage of it. Mostly on social issues.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: I mean, about homosexuality, about abortion, about immigration, things like that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat units.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: That's change, all right. But that's not the kind of change America needs. It's not the kind of change America wants.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's not the kind of change we can abide in a nation we still call God's country.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How does Bush respond to the Buchanan challenge?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: As the battle heats up, both campaigns are trying to lower expectations for Tuesday, and both are preparing to claim victory no matter what.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Come Tuesday, the Buchanan Brigades are going to run head on into the hollow army of King George and cut through it like butter.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: Yeah!
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bush almost didn't have an answer and he kind of like floundered his way through the primaries.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Look, Bush was not a common touch kind of guy.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: He went to Yale. His father was a U.S. senator from Connecticut.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was basically the eastern establishment who happened to move to Texas to make money in oil.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: So he really didn't react and respond quickly enough.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And while he won the New Hampshire primary, suddenly the unbeatable George Bush became very vulnerable by early 1992.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bush had still not won over these hard right conservatives.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: Even though he was getting the votes in the primaries, there was no enthusiasm for Bush.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: At this point, does his campaign start to develop a theme?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So he's not going to get on homosexuality or abortion.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: He's got a flagging economy.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What is he running on?
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: The problem with George Bush is that while he had a great understanding of foreign policy, you know, being at the UN, being the head of the CIA, having great relationships with leaders abroad, he almost didn't seem interested in the economy as much as he did.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So he didn't really have a coherent theme except for the fact that, well, the economy will get better and we will work something out.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: But for the most part, he ran a campaign of frustration.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So what happens after New Hampshire?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: What usually happens, the Republican primaries took over.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: The establishment wins. You have to have tremendous organization. You have to have tremendous amount of money.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bush had both.
--:-- Patrick Buchanan: Buchanan didn't.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it was pretty clear that by Super Tuesday, there was going to be no threat to his re-nomination.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The election in November is another the story completely.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: William Jefferson Clinton and a guy named Ross Perot.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They're next on Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So this is a website called Polygon.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's polygon.com. It's all about games, game creators, fans of games, gaming culture.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They also got a podcast. It's appropriately titled The History of Fun.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The podcast doesn't just focus on games, though.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They get into the history of all sorts of fun stuff, like karaoke and water parks and Hello Kitty.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Anyway, this holiday season, the History of Fun is looking at holiday fun.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: They've already dropped episodes on the histories of trick-or-treating and Black Friday, and there's a fresh one on Krampus.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Do you know about Krampus?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It's this half-goat, half-demon who punishes bad kids, but also Nazis.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Check out the History of Fun wherever you find your podcasts.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So George H.W. Bush at this point, he's a career public servant.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He serves in World War II.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He runs the RNC.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's ambassador to the UN.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He runs the CIA.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's vice president to Ronald Reagan.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He's president of the United States.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And then you got this guy who the governor of Arkansas
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How left field is Bill Clinton as the Democratic nominee running against George H Bush in 91 92
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well Bill Clinton advantage was that he was somebody who was not part of the Washington mess
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He didn't serve in Congress.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was also not the kind of left wing George McGovern, Walter Mondale kind of Democrats that the country seemed to reject in previous elections.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was kind of moderate, somewhat conservative in some things.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he was a fresh face at a time when people were really dissatisfied with what was going on in Washington.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So how big a challenge is Bill Clinton presenting to George H.W. Bush?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think journalists saw it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I don't think Bush saw it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think Bush saw him as, you know, as a philanderer and a draft dodger, I mean, in their words.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So they never felt that he was going to be a real threat.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But the fact is, is that he did excite.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was young.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was basically what the Democrats were desperately looking for.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And in addition to the challenge he was facing by Bill Clinton, he was also being challenged by a third candidate, an independent candidate, a Texas billionaire by the name of Ross Perot.
--:-- Ross Perot: There is so much waste around here.
--:-- Ross Perot: See, I'm the only guy that talks numbers.
--:-- Ross Perot: I love this.
--:-- Ross Perot: Nobody else will even talk about it.
--:-- Ross Perot: I've said it's like a crazy aunt in the basement.
--:-- Ross Perot: Everybody knows she's there, but nobody talks about her.
--:-- Ross Perot: I'm talking about her.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Perot, he was a Dallas billionaire, 61 years old, who was going on TV shows like Larry King and Phil Donahue, names I haven't thought of in a long time.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And he had this folksy way of talking that attracted people from both parties.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The fact is, he supported low taxes and a reduction of government, which Republicans liked.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He supported abortion rights and gun control, which Democrats liked.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And as a matter of fact, in June of 1992, he was actually leading in the polls, even though he hadn't announced his candidacy yet.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He dropped out of the race in July of 1992, and then he got back in the race October 1st of 1992.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Meanwhile, even when he was out of the race, he was still making sure he would be on all 50 state ballots.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So when he came back on the race in October on October 1st of 1992 he would be part of the debates with Bill Clinton and George Bush
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: how did those debates go
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think what debates do is that is that they ratify what the voters are already thinking
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So George Bush you know he was mostly a technocrat.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was not somebody who was a personal, emotive kind of guy.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And that's exactly what Bill Clinton was.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So when you think of like the second debate, when Bill Clinton, I feel your pain, I understand what you're saying.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He was very emotional and reflexive and feeling.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: We have a question right here.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How has a national debt personally affected each of your lives?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Tell me how it's affected you again.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, people who lost their jobs, lost their homes.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, I've been governor of a small state for 12 years.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'll tell you how it's affected me.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I have seen what's happened in this last four years when in my state when people lose their jobs there's a good chance I'll know them by their names.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: George Bush never had that.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A lot of times he didn't understand the questions.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, I think the national debt affects everybody.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Obviously, it has a lot to do with interest rates.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: She's saying you personally.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: On a personal basis, how has it affected you?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Has it affected you personally?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, I'm sure it has.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I love my grandchildren.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I want to think that I want to think that they're going to be able to afford an education
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think that that's an important part of being a parent if the question if you're so maybe I won't get it wrong
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Are you suggesting that if somebody has means that the national debt doesn't affect them?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There were several times he was looking at his watch which made me think like Please let me get the hell out of here like he just couldn't wait for this to end
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But I think in terms of the recession, of course you feel it when you're president of the United States.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: That's why I'm trying to do something about it by stimulating the export, investing more, better education systems.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You know, he always said he never had that vision thing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He certainly didn't have it in the debates either.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So while he didn't go after Clinton with nasty attacks, I mean, basically he showed himself to be a nice guy.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But given the fact that he was trailing in the polls by then, given the fact that he got no boost coming out of the Republican convention, and given the fact that all the new attention was back on Ross Perot, Bush needed to do something dramatic to change the dynamic of the race, and he failed to do it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And it was Ross Perot who basically got the most attention for the debates because he had his one-liners and all that stuff, and Bush was basically the onlooker.
--:-- Ross Perot: Well they got a point I don have any experience in running up a trillion debt
--:-- Ross Perot: I don have any experience in gridlock government where nobody takes responsibility for anything and everybody blames everybody else
--:-- Ross Perwot: I don have any experience in creating the worst public school system in the industrialized world, the most violent crime-ridden society in the industrialized world.
--:-- Ross Perot: But I do have a lot of experience in getting things done.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And probably the highlight of the debate, of all the debates, was the vice presidential debate, which was a mud fight among Al Gore, Dan Quayle and Admiral Stockdale, who was Ross Perot's running mate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And when Admiral Stockdale said, who am I? Why am I here?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I mean, we got a lot of chuckles out of that, but basically.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Still laughing.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The debates didn't really change that much.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Yeah.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So what are the last few weeks of the campaign like?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Basically, the fact is Bush was in big trouble.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: He had Perot, for all the thoughts that Perot could take from both parties, it was clear that Ross Perot's only target was George Bush, and he did everything he can to make his life miserable.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Perhaps if it was just one-on-one with Bush versus Clinton, Bush could spend all his money, all the money on negative stuff on Bill Clinton, as we saw with Mike Dukakis in 1988 with the Willie Horton attacks.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But I think the fact that Bush was getting bombarded by both sides, you know, there was just no way for him to win it.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: If anything, he would have needed a big mistake by Bill Clinton or an amazing showing in the debates.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And neither one happened.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: So what are the what are the results of this election?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I know I think I've heard that he lost, but how bad was it?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The popular vote seemed kind of close.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bill Clinton got 43 percent.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Bush got 38 percent.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The real story is that Ross Perot got 19% of the vote, 19 million votes as well.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Of course, he also, Ross Perot, got zero electoral votes, which just shows the problems of a third-party candidate.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But Bush, in the popular vote, was close.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The electoral college was pretty much a landslide.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think he even finished third in Maine, which is where he has a house in Kennebunkport.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And they knew him the best in Maine.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But it was not a good campaign.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: It was not a good result for the president.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: probably the lowest percentage for an incumbent president, I don't know, maybe since Herbert Hoover in 1932.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And now I ask that we stand behind our new president.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And regardless of our differences, all Americans share the same purpose, to make this, the world's greatest nation, more safe and more secure, and to guarantee every American a shot at the American dream.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How did George Bush take his loss?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: How did George Bush take the defeat of being, you know, a one-term president?
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Well, you know, in his diary, he indicated that he was very stunned by it and very disheartened and very bitter and hurt.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: And yet for all the talk about, you know, whether to talk about immigration and draft dodgers and personal attacks and Willie Horton, all the things that Bush has been saddled with throughout his career.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: For all that, I think the way he handled himself in defeat, not only was his concession to Bill Clinton very, very gracious,
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: But he wrote a note that came to light only recently to Bill Clinton that was delivered during the transition.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: The note says, and it's handwritten,
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Dear Bill, when I walked into this office just now, I felt the same sense of wonder and respect that I felt four years ago.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I know you'll feel that too.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I wish you great happiness here.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I never felt the loneliness some presidents have described.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: There will be very tough times made even more difficult by criticism you may not think is fair.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm not a very good one to give advice, but just don't let the critics discourage you or push you off course.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: You will be our president when you read this note.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I wish you well.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I wish your family well.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Your success now is our country's success.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I am rooting hard for you.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Good luck, George.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: A magnanimous response, a very gracious response.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I think this letter to Bill Clinton on the day of Clinton's inauguration showed the true essence of who George Herbert Walker Bush was.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Ken Rudin hosts the Political Junkie podcast.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: I'm Sean Rameswaram.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: This is Today Explained.
--:-- Sean Rameswaram: Thank you.
