--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I'm Aisha Roscoe, this is The Sunday Story, and it's NPR's Climate Solutions Week.
--:-- Julia Simon: This year, NPR is looking at the ways climate change is affecting what we eat and how what we eat is affecting climate change. I'm NPR's Climate Solutions reporter, Julia Simon, and I'm here with Aisha.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Now, Julia, welcome, first of all. Thank you. It's going to be fun today.
--:-- Julia Simon: I understand you've been working on a story about beef, and I'm an interesting person for you to talk to about beef because my favorite food since I was a kid has been steak.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So even at like eight or nine years old, back in the day, we'd go to Golden Corral. I would order steak and everybody else would get the buffet and they would bring the steak to the table and they would point it at the adult or the male in the table.
--:-- Julia Simon: And they'd be like, no, it's for the little girl over there.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: OK, well, that's an image. And interesting that they assumed it was for the man because we're going to get into that.
--:-- Julia Simon: If you count yourself as one of the high beef-eating Americans, you're probably going to be interested in this because we're going to explore some powerful ideas connecting Americans with beef eating.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So where do we start? We're going to start in 2006, and this is when Malcolm Regisford was a little boy in Los Angeles watching cartoons.
--:-- Julia Simon: I had to be really young, maybe, you know, 10 or something like that.
--:-- Julia Simon: And somewhere in between his cartoons comes this commercial. Andrew, our producer, he's going to play you the clip.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: We're seeing a man. He was in this fancy restaurant. It looks like getting a little fancy plate. He just threw that away. He's a man. He got to find some real food, not this fancy schmancy stuff.
--:-- Julia Simon: Exactly. He has this vegetarian dish, and he just throws it away. That's the so-called chick food.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: He leaves the restaurant, joins a throng of other singing men.
--:-- Julia Simon: Oh, yes, I'm a guy. I'll admit I've been fed to you. Wait till food's behind. Now it's the Whopper piece I've reached. A guy wanting a Whopper, basically.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So a bunch of guys singing about how much they love their Whopper. It's a Burger King commercial.
--:-- Julia Simon: I do not remember this commercial, and I watch a lot of TV.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Well, now you're going to have it in your head living rent-free for the rest of your life. Texas double whomper. Eat like a man. Man.
--:-- Julia Simon: So Malcolm, he says he saw this commercial often as a kid.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Yeah, they were starting it early. A lot of boys and men get messages from advertisements and culture that connect eating meat with being a man, particularly eating beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: Sizzling beef. Beef jerky. Beef fajitas. Beef tacos.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Do you see where I'm going with this? Beef. It's what's for dinner. Beef is like marketed to men as, you know, steaks and hefty burgers. Like, that's what a man's supposed to eat.
--:-- Julia Simon: OK, so Julia, now you're a climate solutions reporter. So I gotta ask you, why are you talking about beef?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It's because of cows.
--:-- Julia Simon: When cows burp, they release methane, this very potent planet heating gas.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Demand for beef, also dairy, more so beef, means there are lots of cows and cattle on the planet right now with lots of planet heating burps.
--:-- Julia Simon: Also, demand for beef drives deforestation, which also releases gases that heat the planet.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I mean, that doesn't sound good, but what is the solution then?
--:-- Julia Simon: Well, it turns out that if people eat less beef, not even eliminating it, just eating less, that would have a huge impact on global warming.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Diego Rose is the head of the nutrition program at Tulane University. He did a study that asked the question, what if on a given day you decide you're not going to have beef in a meal? You're going to have, say, chicken instead.
--:-- Julia Simon: If it was a beef steak, you had a chicken steak. Or if it was a beef burger, you had a chicken burger.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And with all of the substitutions, we found that it dropped people's dietary carbon footprint in half, 48%.
--:-- Julia Simon: Okay. So even if you still eat meat, like if you eat chicken, chickens don't release as much methane into the air as the cows do.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Is that the case?
--:-- Julia Simon: Yeah. Cows have this special stomach that's really cool, but it releases a lot of methane.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And yeah, it's really about the cows heating the planet so much.
--:-- Julia Simon: So if you decide to swap out beef in a meal, these researchers found that will cut the global warming of your diet that day by about half.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And this is particularly important for the U.S. because Americans, we go to the Golden Corral, we consume a lot of beef. A lot. About 300% more beef per capita than other countries, according to the United Nations.
--:-- Julia Simon: But we're not all eating that beef equally.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Here's Diego. There's something going on there. Whenever we've looked at the question of gender, we've seen that men eat greater amounts of beef than women.
--:-- Julia Simon: Diego and other researchers, they looked at U.S. government data, which provides this one-day snapshot of thousands of Americans' diets.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: They found that 12% of Americans eat so much beef that it adds up to half of the beef consumed in the U.S. on a given day.
--:-- Julia Simon: That 12%? Disproportionately men.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Mmm, but other than me, I'm the exception to the rule on this.
--:-- Julia Simon: Some women do eat a lot of beef too, but data shows it's more of the American men eating a lot of beef.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And researchers say for the climate, paying attention to men makes sense.
--:-- Julia Simon: Here's Anna Grumman, a professor at Stanford Medical School.
--:-- Anna Grumman: Because men eat more beef, it means you're going to, as a society, get more bang for your buck from the men changing their behavior.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Reducing the amount of beef we eat is an important climate solution, especially for men who eat even more beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: But there are specific obstacles for men, from powerful societal pressures and messaging for men to eat meat to misinformation about soy and protein.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Protein, protein, protein, which I feel like is a big misconception.
--:-- Julia Simon: More on beef, the climate, and men when we come back.
--:-- [Break music plays]
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Welcome back to The Sunday Story. We're talking about beef and the climate and men.
--:-- Julia Simon: Now, Julia, that Burger King commercial we saw, these ideas that men need to eat meat to be a real man.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I mean, I do. I have seen this before. It's pretty widespread in our culture.
--:-- Julia Simon: It really is. And these ideas go way back. Men being associated with actually doing the hunting that connects us to our meat and meat conception in a kind of primal way.
--:-- Julia Simon: This is Joshua Svecht, historian at University of Notre Dame.
--:-- Joshua Svecht: Joshua says red meat-eating has long been connected to ideas about our primordial ancestors.
--:-- Julia Simon: And there's marketing. Joshua says pretty much as long as beef has been mass-produced, that industry has used ideas of masculinity to sell beef to men.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: In the late 1800s, canned beef companies sold beef with images of lumberjacks, miners, soldiers, and cowboys.
--:-- Julia Simon: They would depict visions of men who were like out there in the world making their own destiny.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Then you had McDonald's, Burger King. Be like a man, man.
--:-- Julia Simon: But today we don't just have commercials spreading those ideas. There's a whole new ecosystem of social media and podcasts out there.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And I can't imagine what they out there saying.
--:-- Julia Simon: Aisha, do you know about meat fluencers?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: No, I have not heard of that.
--:-- Julia Simon: Okay. Well, these are a group of online personalities and celebrities often pushing the idea that men should eat lots of meat, often lots of red meat, beef, to live up to their potential.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Some of them are actually selling beef products, including supplements made of beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: It tastes so good. More.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: This is Brian Johnson, also known as the liver king, and he lives up to his name.
--:-- Julia Simon: He eats lots of liver. He's actually eating steak in that video. He's eating beef.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: There are lots of diets in this world of meat fluencers. One of them is known as the carnivore diet, which typically involves eating mostly red meat, poultry, pork, seafood, dairy, and eggs.
--:-- Julia Simon: Podcaster Joe Rogan has also talked about the carnivore diet.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: The best I ever felt, like literally the best I ever felt all throughout the day was when I was on the carnivore diet.
--:-- Julia Simon: Joe Rogan, by the way, has 14.5 million followers for his podcast. 81% of his audience is men.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: But there are lots of men in America who don't eat meat, right?
--:-- Julia Simon: Yeah, for sure. There are American men who are vegan, vegetarian, plant-based, which refers to people who primarily don't eat meat or dairy.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And there are men who reduce their meat or beef. Some men cut it for their health or because they care about animal welfare or industry workers.
--:-- Julia Simon: They might reduce beef because they care about the environment or climate.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: But researchers say all these ideas in the media and in our culture that give men the message, you should eat meat, this can have an impact on behaviors.
--:-- Julia Simon: I talked to a lot of men for this story who reduced meat in their diet, and many of them got questions or pushback, like Malcolm, who saw the Burger King commercial as a kid.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Women, not so much at all, like no pushback at all.
--:-- Julia Simon: But yeah, men were the ones I had to like, in a way, convince.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Malcolm is a basketball player. He made it to Colgate University to play Division I basketball.
--:-- Julia Simon: But his junior year, he injured his ankle. And that got him thinking about how healthy he was.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And inspired by a family friend, he decided to cut meat from his diet for his health.
--:-- Julia Simon: When he told his teammates and coaching staff, you're not going to eat any meat. Like this is like this is you're really doing this. Like it's just a lot of like skepticism.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Malcolm, he's going into his senior year. He needs to be peak performance on the court, his teammates are asking Malcolm, how is he going to get enough protein without meat?
--:-- Julia Simon: The protein question is, it comes up all the time. Like, you wouldn't believe it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what I always hear. The protein, you got to get protein.
--:-- Julia Simon: It turns out, Aisha, you actually don't need meat to get enough protein.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And we're going to talk about that more in a bit.
--:-- Julia Simon: But Aisha, there are lots of false and misleading ideas that some men say make it harder for them to reduce the amount of beef they eat.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I'm going to run you through four.
--:-- Julia Simon: All right, so what is the first myth that you're going to be debunking today?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: The first is pretty basic, but it's the idea that humans have always eaten a lot of beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: We might think of eating lots of beef as this primordial activity, but in reality, for the majority of human history, most people didn't eat nearly as much beef as we eat today.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It was the late 1800s that things started changing, particularly in America, with a few key innovations.
--:-- Julia Simon: One is the railroad, right? So goods and people can move further, faster than ever before.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So you can move things like cattle, then slaughter the cattle, and move cans of beef, fresh beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: The other invention are refrigerators. Now your meat doesn't go bad so quickly.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: By the early 1900s, Americans were eating a lot of meat and a lot of beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: So beef as a special occasion food becomes an all-the-time food.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: OK, so this idea of the caveman and, you know, Fred Flintstone with that big old, you know, hunk of meat, that's not legitimate.
--:-- Julia Simon: He could not have had meat like that every single day at, you know, three meals a day.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: No, Our ancestors did not have railroads or refrigeration, no.
--:-- Julia Simon: OK, so that's the first misleading idea.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: What's number two?
--:-- Julia Simon: The second has to do with some of the health claims you might hear from some of these meatfluencers.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Many maintain that primarily eating lots of red meat is good for your health.
--:-- Julia Simon: And many meat promoters make specific health claims about beef and red meat.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Here's chiropractor Eric Berg, who has more than 12 million followers on YouTube.
--:-- Julia Simon: It's difficult to heal and repair your body without animal protein, especially red meat.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And today I'm going to prove it.
--:-- Julia Simon: Berg notes on his website that he is not a medical doctor and he is not providing medical diagnosis or treatment.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: We reached out to Eric Berg. He did not respond to our request for comment.
--:-- Julia Simon: But I spoke to several nutrition experts for this story, including Frank Hu, chair of the Department of Nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Who says there's little evidence to support this claim.
--:-- Julia Simon: And also, there is increasing evidence that eating too much meat is actually detrimental to health.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Hu says diets high in red meat and low in whole grains and vegetables are associated with increased risk of diabetes.
--:-- Julia Simon: A spokesperson for the National Cattlemen's Beef Association, an industry lobby group, maintains that beef has benefits.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: In an email, a spokesperson said, quote, research continues to show the important role high-quality protein, like beef, plays in a balanced diet.
--:-- Julia Simon: But returning to meat fluencers, some of them don't just promote the benefits of eating lots of red meat.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Some of them spread false and misleading views about eating certain plants, particularly soy, including the idea that soy can feminize men.
--:-- Julia Simon: Here's Joe Rogan describing that view.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Soy is one of the rare foods that's actually attached to being a bitch.
--:-- Julia Simon: I mean, wow. I mean, you know, so I would think you're about to clear this up right now because this doesn't sound right to me.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Yeah, this needs context.
--:-- Julia Simon: This is the third misleading idea.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I talked to Harvard nutrition professor Frank Hu about this Soy as well as some other plants contains an estrogen substance called phytoestrogen.
--:-- Julia Simon: All people including men make varying levels of estrogen by the way.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: But as Hu explains, the effects of phytoestrogen are much, much weaker than the estrogen hormone in human bodies.
--:-- Julia Simon: Still, some men are afraid of consuming soy.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It has a stigma. There's even a derogatory term for weak men called soy boys.
--:-- Julia Simon: It's a pretty popular term.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I have not heard the term soy boy.
--:-- Julia Simon: OK, so I think we're at our final myth.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: What is it?
--:-- Julia Simon: It's the one we've been waiting for, protein.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Here's Malcolm, the Division I basketball player who stopped eating meat in college.
--:-- Julia Simon: The protein question is, it comes up all the time. Like, you wouldn't believe it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So this myth is basically that to get enough protein in your diet, you have to eat meat, or it's very difficult to get enough protein if you don't eat meat.
--:-- Julia Simon: Yeah, and it turns out it isn't true.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: You can get protein from lots of different things, including plants.
--:-- Julia Simon: Here's Dariush Mozaffarian, professor at Tufts University.
--:-- Dariush Mozaffarian: Those are the building blocks of protein.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It seems that people are really obsessed with protein.
--:-- Julia Simon: If someone wants to get Protein, amino acids are pretty much the same from any source, whether it's from plants or from animal sources.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: There are some variations in the relative amounts of different amino acids, but you can get complete proteins from plants, from dairy, from meats, from poultry, from eggs.
--:-- Julia Simon: If you can't get enough protein, are there any downsides for health if you don't eat meat?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Frank Hu at Harvard notes that for some people, including people with heavy periods, eating little to no meat may mean they need to take iron supplements.
--:-- Julia Simon: Others reducing meat, particularly older people, might want to consult their doctors to see if they need to supplement vitamin B12.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Frank says for most people, though, a healthy and balanced plant-based diet can normally provide enough iron, nutrients, and protein.
--:-- Julia Simon: But look, Aisha, giving people the facts about protein is one thing.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Researchers say that's just the start towards getting people to eat less beef.
--:-- Julia Simon: Getting people to change their diets, that will require a whole lot of new messaging.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I think it's one of the greatest communication challenges of all time.
--:-- Julia Simon: When we come back, an NBA player reduces his meat-eating. Leave the cows, whoever alone. Leave the animals alone.
--:-- [Break music plays]
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Welcome back to The Sunday Story. We're talking about beef and the climate and men.
--:-- Julia Simon: Before the break, we mentioned that researchers say changing diets will require new messaging.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Julia, you started us off today with that one commercial from Burger King.
--:-- Julia Simon: I guess I'd say you have one last commercial for me.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I do.
--:-- Julia Simon: This is a commercial that started airing earlier this year. Andrew, our producer, is going to play it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: We're seeing a guy in a commercial. He looks kind of like a big burly man.
--:-- Julia Simon: and he's walking around aggressively.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Exactly. He was slapping a beef hamburger out of some guy's hand. He replaced it with a plant-based burger because this is an ad for the plant-based food company Impossible Foods.
--:-- Julia Simon: Because now we can turn plants into burgers and hot dogs. Even meatballs.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Then someone offers the main guy a helmet and he gets on a motorcycle.
--:-- Julia Simon: We're solving the meat problem. With more meat. Impossible! Meat from plants!
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: He gets on the motorcycle and he zooms off, exploding, exploding into the horizon.
--:-- Julia Simon: I showed this Impossible Foods ad to Gabriel Rosenberg.
--:-- Gabriel Rosenberg: He's this, like, older figure of, like, masculinity. He's teaching you how to be a man. And then he's like explosively virile.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It's basically just saying, men, you have permission to eat our product and still be manly and still be masculine.
--:-- Julia Simon: I wanted to ask the company about what they're trying to do with this ad.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So I got on a Zoom with Peter McGinnis.
--:-- Peter McGinnis: He's the president and CEO of Impossible Foods.
--:-- Julia Simon: When he came to the company a few years ago, he learned about the customer base.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: But the main thing Peter found is that there were people they weren't reaching.
--:-- Julia Simon: Customers who see plant-based food and think it isn't for them.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: They see it as food for vegans and vegetarians.
--:-- Julia Simon: Peter wants it to be more inclusive. That really means more meat eaters.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: To reach more of them, Peter says they needed to change the branding.
--:-- Julia Simon: I think we had the messaging wrong for a long, long time on all this stuff.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Impossible Foods was founded to help curb climate change, to reduce that huge amount of climate pollution from animal agriculture.
--:-- Julia Simon: But Peter says in their advertising, they are not leaning into climate.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So you don't lead with that. You don't hide it, but that's not your, you know, lead marketing horse.
--:-- Julia Simon: Yeah, because, you know, climate change, like so many other things, has become politicized and kind of a part of the culture wars.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It's true.
--:-- Julia Simon: And Peter doesn't want his customers to associate his product with politics at all.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: We don't want anything partisan, political, weird.
--:-- Julia Simon: They change the packaging from green, often associated with environmentalists, to red. So it looks like red meat.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So we're leaning into that, right? All those meat cues.
--:-- Julia Simon: They want to make a big tent to welcome meat eaters.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Impossible burgers were designed to look and taste like beef burgers for that reason.
--:-- Julia Simon: Researchers told me that diets that are very high and highly processed plant-based meats can sometimes not be good for health either.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: But psychology researchers say ads like this are important.
--:-- Julia Simon: They can broaden social acceptance for plant-based foods.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: To shift diets away from beef, shifting social norms will be key.
--:-- Julia Simon: So this is the court you sometimes go to.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Yeah, we come out here sometimes play a little bit one do some spot shots.
--:-- Julia Simon: Nice. A little bit yeah yeah I try to not get hit.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Okay, so Julia, this is the sound of you poking around at the practice with an NBA player?
--:-- Julia Simon: That's right. When I was in L.A., I met up with Jalen Hood-Chefino.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Point guard for the Los Angeles Lakers.
--:-- Julia Simon: He there, I just catch, dribble, dribble into my...
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I got to watch Jalen and his trainer Gabriel prepare for the upcoming season.
--:-- Julia Simon: I'm not even, it's three dribbles. So it's not like I'm sitting there and just go crazy.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And I was there to talk to him about his diet because he is plant-based.
--:-- Julia Simon: Jalen's 21. In high school, he started cutting meat from his diet.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: He had many motivations, including his health, ethics, animal welfare.
--:-- Julia Simon: Just how our lives are important. Animals' lives are important as well.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So leave the cows, whoever alone. Leave the animals alone.
--:-- Julia Simon: So was he thinking about climate change when he cut out meat?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: For Jalen, like many people, climate wasn't his main motivation, but he says he's happy to help.
--:-- Julia Simon: I mean, I'm human, so I'm definitely part of this environment.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And, you know, while I'm here, I definitely want to make the world a better place and live in a healthier environment.
--:-- Julia Simon: Jalen's change to a plant-based diet was mostly self-directed.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: But Jalen, like you, Aisha grew up in North Carolina, the birthplace of a very famous NBA point guard.
--:-- Julia Simon: You want to guess who I'm talking about?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Point guard. The only person I know from North Carolina is Michael Jordan.
--:-- Julia Simon: Oh, man. Okay. Well, there's another one.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Oh, okay. Sometimes called the point god.
--:-- Julia Simon: I don't know.
--:-- Julia Simon: Oh, Chris Paul.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: You got it. You got it. Okay. Okay. Three seconds. Two seconds.
--:-- Julia Simon: Paul, the pull-up. He nails it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Current point guard for the San Antonio Spurs.
--:-- Julia Simon: He's been in the NBA since 2005, a long time.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And since 2019, Chris Paul has been plant-based.
--:-- Julia Simon: When Jalen was in high school, he went to Chris Paul's basketball camps.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Going to his camps and everything.
--:-- Julia Simon: He'll have two sides. He'll have regular food. Then he'll have his vegan chef cook the vegan meal.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So during that time in high school, I was still obviously kind of dibbling, dabbling, but I would always go to the vegan side to try that food.
--:-- Julia Simon: So I was already hip to it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So I would eat the vegan food and I would kind of just ask him questions about, you know, the vegan diet.
--:-- Julia Simon: And he would always talk about how, you know, that helped his longevity in the NBA and how much energized he felt.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Jalen says seeing the Chris Paul go plant-based, it didn't hurt his choice to do it himself.
--:-- Julia Simon: Definitely seeing him do that was definitely cool to see, and I'm excited that he's on that lifestyle.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And me now being a part of that is dope.
--:-- Julia Simon: Researchers say seeing a famous athlete or someone in your circle of friends or family reduce meat first, that can make it seem more socially acceptable.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So the way to get some people to eat less meat is to get other people to eat less meat.
--:-- Julia Simon: This is Daniel Rosenfeld, a food and psychology researcher at UCLA.
--:-- Daniel Rosenfeld: Like Malcolm, he also decided to cut out meat in college.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And he got teased.
--:-- Julia Simon: He says a lot of guys reducing meat hear stuff like this.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Associating meat eating with strength.
--:-- Julia Simon: I asked Jalen about this.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Had anyone told him he was weak when he cut out meat?
--:-- Julia Simon: I never really heard weak because in a humble way, but if you ask anyone that I'm playing against, a lot of people are going to say when it comes to the basketball court, I'm one of the strongest players that you're going to come across.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: He says he hopes to someday be a role model for kids if they might be interested in eating less meat or plant-based diets.
--:-- Julia Simon: Don't fall for the okie-doke. You can live a really good plant-based life, a healthy life, and feel the best.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Just some pepper, salt and pepper to start.
--:-- Julia Simon: A few weeks ago, I went to Canoga Park, Los Angeles, to meet that kid who saw the Burger King commercial, Malcolm Regisford.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: We went straight into the kitchen.
--:-- Julia Simon: Okay, first things first, we're going to get this pan nice and hot.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Okay.
--:-- Julia Simon: After playing Division I basketball in New York, Malcolm came back to L.A. and became a plant-based chef.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: He just released a cookbook.
--:-- Julia Simon: One of the recipes is a vegan, quote-unquote, steak.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: The star of the show is not beef, of course.
--:-- Julia Simon: So, lion's mane mushroom.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: It looks and feels like a lion's mane.
--:-- Julia Simon: Go ahead and feel it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Hundreds of thousands of people follow him on social media.
--:-- Julia Simon: When Malcolm talks to guys who follow him, he sometimes hears suspicion about plant-based foods or reducing meat in diets.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: He gets that connections to meats like beef are deep and cultural, and that it can be hard to let go.
--:-- Julia Simon: But he tells them, All this other stuff that you think is attached to eating a certain way, it's not as important as you may think.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I talk to so many climate people, and they tell me over and over again, If a person wants to reduce their impact on climate change, eating less beef is one of the best things you can do.
--:-- Julia Simon: Helping people switch away from beef will require making sure other options, plant-based options, are accessible.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: And for Malcolm, he wants to make sure plant-based foods are easy to make and delicious.
--:-- Julia Simon: What's next?
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: We're ready to serve it up now.
--:-- Julia Simon: Oh, amazing. Censor the sound of me chewing.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Well, Malcolm, I've done it. I ate the entire steak almost by myself.
--:-- Julia Simon: That's exactly what we wanted.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: That's how you know it was a success.
--:-- Julia Simon: It's a steak, yes. Absolutely.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I'm very glad you enjoyed it.
--:-- Julia Simon: I really did.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: So, Julia, you really enjoyed this mushroom steak.
--:-- Julia Simon: I did. I did. I ate pretty much all of it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I don't know, Aisha. You got to try it.
--:-- Julia Simon: I'll give it a try.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Thank you so much for bringing us this reporting.
--:-- Julia Simon: I really appreciate it.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: That's NPR Climate Solutions reporter, Julia Simon.
--:-- Julia Simon: This episode was produced by Andrew Mambo and edited by Jenny Schmidt.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: The reporting for this episode was brought to us by NPR's Climate Desk and Chief Climate Editor, Neela Banerjee.
--:-- Julia Simon: The engineer for this episode was James Willits.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Special thanks to Nicolette Cohn, Allison Aubrey, Selena Simmons-Duffin, Danielle Kurtzleben, Jerry Holmes, and Arielle Redding.
--:-- Julia Simon: The Sunday Story team includes Justine Yan.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Our supervising producer is Liana Simstrom, and Irene Noguchi is our executive producer.
--:-- Julia Simon: I'm Ayesha Rascoe.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Up First is back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week.
--:-- Julia Simon: Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: This message comes from Lisa.
--:-- Julia Simon: Lisa mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the USA for exceptional quality.
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