--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday Story from Up First.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: I always like summer best. You can eat fresh corn from Daddy's Garden, and okra, and greens, and cabbage, and lots of barbecue, and buttermilk, and homemade ice cream at the church picnic. These are the words of the great African-American poet Nikki Giovanni from her poem Knoxville, Tennessee. She died earlier this week at the age of 81.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Nikki Giovanni was called many things. The poet of the Black Revolution, activist, spoken word artist, cultural icon, children's book author, professor, Christian, radiant voice of Black joy and struggle. To me, she was also an unapologetic truth teller. And some of her words and poems, I could feel them at a molecular level. That's how much I related to them.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Giovanni grew up with an alcoholic abusive father in a house without indoor plumbing. And while she was never afraid to explore those hardships in her poetry, she also celebrated what was beautiful about community, food, and family.
--:-- Aisha Roscoe: Earlier this year, my colleague and host of the podcast, Wildcard, Rachel Martin, spoke to Nikki Giovanni. Today, we bring you this incredible conversation.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind? No.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Wow, I'm surprised by that answer. Huh. Because it gets you caught up in your life, and that's not what you're like. Your life is not about your life. Your life is about your duty.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wild Card, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. Pick a card one through three. Questions about the memories, insights, and beliefs that have shaped them.
--:-- Rachel Martin: My guest this week is poet Nikki Giovanni. When you look at the stars and then you think about the other life forms, you think, well, there is something else. I can't quit now.
--:-- Rachel Martin: There are so many words I could use to describe my guest today. Poet, revolutionary, queer icon, feminist, space enthusiast, mother and grandmother, legend. Nikki Giovanni is all those things. But she is also a woman who figured out really early that she didn't have to apologize to anyone for who she was or for what she wanted from her life.
--:-- Rachel Martin: She can write poems that look directly at all the pain and hatred in the world. And she can write children's books about feeling safe and loved. She can also conjure what it will look like when humans set up shop on Mars and black women lead the way.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Nikki Giovanni has just been doing it her own way all along and writing it down so the rest of us can start to see beyond ourselves and whatever hard thing we happen to be stuck in at any particular moment.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Nikki Giovanni, welcome to Wild Card. I'm so glad you're here.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, thanks, Rachel. I'm glad to be here.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So I understand you turned 81 on June 7th, am I right?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I can't believe it. You know, I used to say all the time, you know, I really liked old age. It was a good idea. But 80 really kicked my butt. And I'm hoping that 81 is a lot better.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I just got out of the hospital about a week ago. I'm just old. And I was dehydrated. And I had to go to London twice. And I like London, but flying back and forth is...
--:-- Rachel Martin: I know. I could have swum.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: You know, I would have been better off. There you go. There you go.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: So are you a person who enjoys a good birthday party? Did you have one?
--:-- Rachel Martin: I am not, and I did. I just have a – no, you know, parties are work no matter what anybody says.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: But we played – we played bidwist. I have a bidwist group. And we played – I don't know what that is. That's a card game?
--:-- Rachel Martin: It's like bridge only for more intelligence.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: If you do, say so yourself. We're going to get letters on that one.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And my dear friend, whom I love so much, Javon Jackson, came down. And Javon doesn't go anyplace without his saxophone. So he plays sax. He plays dinner sax. And so that was very nice because there was no work. I didn't have to do it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: That sounds like a good birthday. Yeah, I was glad to be out at the hospital, and I was glad to be with friends. And I didn't have to get dressed up. I did shower. but I didn't have to be dressed.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I get it. I get it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I'm so glad you're out of the hospital. I'm glad that you're doing better.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Are you a game person? What do you think about this?
--:-- Rachel Martin: Oh, I love games. You do?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, sure. The Weakest Link, Jeopardy, The Wall. Yeah. All right. I'm into it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So let me explain how this is going to go, okay?
--:-- Rachel Martin: Okay. I've got a deck of cards in front of me, And each one has a question on it that I would love for you to answer. I'm going to hold up only three cards at a time. And then you, Nikki, are going to choose one at random to answer. Okay.
--:-- Rachel Martin: There are two rules. You get one skip. If you use your skip, I will swap in another question from the deck. Okay. And rule number two, you get one flip. So you could put me on the spot and ask me to answer one of the questions before you do.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And we're breaking it up into three rounds. Okay. memories, insights, and beliefs with a few questions in each round. And because it's a game, there's a prize when you make it to the end. Ginger cookies.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Ginger cookie. How did you know?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, I wish I'd made you fresh ginger cookies. I love ginger cookies. Soft kind or crispy?
--:-- Rachel Martin: Soft. Always soft. Like my grandmother.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: It's not ginger cookies. I should just tell you right now so you can emotionally prepare. I'm leaving. I'll see you later.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Okay, so this is the memories round. three cards to choose from, one, two, or three?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Of course, two. Of course, two. You said that like everybody knows it's two. It's the best number.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Well, I'm a baby sister, so I'm number two. I get it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Were you ever obsessed with a particular cosmic question as a kid?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Yes, I wanted to know why Mars was red.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And my obsession was that there was a war on Mars and that they had developed atomic energy so that Mars burned itself up.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And as I lay in bed for most of my life, actually, to look out the window, I have seen Mars, which is why I talk about it a lot.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I would like to go to Mars because I think that as a black woman, my sisters and I could build a community.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I love that you have planted that idea in our collective consciousness and have written a lot about it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: When did Mars come into your head? Do you remember? Like as a kid? Like how did you even – I didn't think about Mars as a kid.
--:-- Rachel Martin: How did it capture your imagination?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I'm a baby sister. I shared a bedroom with my big sister. She wanted the bed by the wall. I don't know why. But that gave me the bed by the window.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And so I would look out the window and watch the stars.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And the stars haven't changed. So you have to ask yourself, what are they telling us? What am I learning?
--:-- Rachel Martin: Did fixing your gaze upward make you feel safer? I mean, you had a tough home life. You've talked and written a lot about that.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Did thinking about the planets the cosmos the universe did that help you escape whatever was going on at home?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Well, my parents had what I would call, in nice words, troubled marriage. And what space let me know is that this could not be the end.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And thank God I did have a grandmother. And I went ultimately to live with my grandmother.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: But when you start to look at the stars, and then you think about the other life forms, and you think, well, there is something else that I can't quit now.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: There is something else.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Three new cards, okay? Same drill. You pick one, two, or three.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I guess I should take one. Okay. Let's do one.
--:-- Rachel Martin: What's something you thought was normal about your childhood that you now realize was unusual?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Probably the most unusual thing about my childhood was that I recognized that my parents' marriage was not my business.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Because it was unpleasant. Saturday night at 11 o'clock, I was listening to my father beat my mother. So that's unpleasant.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But you also recognize it has nothing to do with you. It was none of my business.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And I didn't believe Ozzie and Harriet or Father Knows Best. I didn't believe any of that.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I didn't believe any of that. I still don't think that there's such a thing as a happy family. Because that was your norm.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So you assumed that all families to some degree were broken in that way. Yeah, they're crazy.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And so the best thing you can do, sometimes you need to walk away. You need to find friends and get rid of the family.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Because the family drives you crazy. Just because you happen to be born doesn't make them kin to you. You make your own families, is what I guess I'm saying.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I recommend dogs. But they're faithful, they're intelligent, and they always love you.
--:-- Rachel Martin: We've got to take a quick break. But when we come back, I ask Nikki if she is afraid of anything. And her answer may surprise you.
--:-- [Break music plays]
--:-- Rachel Martin: This message comes from BetterHelp. It's only human to ask others for advice, like turning to your barista, hairdresser, or a taxi driver for life advice. But when you're looking for help about relationships, anxiety, depression, or other clinical issues, they may not have all the right answers.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Instead, get guidance from a licensed therapist online with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash NPR for 10% off your first month.
--:-- Rachel Martin: This message comes from Doctors Without Borders. People are living through a moment defined by unrelenting crises and need. Civilians are caught in the crossfire of violence and war.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Malnutrition threatens the lives of children. Communities depend on life-saving humanitarian aid. Doctors Without Borders is meeting this moment of overwhelming need with action.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But they can't do it alone. Help provide life-saving care around the world. Learn how to donate today at doctorswithoutborders.org slash NPR.
--:-- Rachel Martin: This message comes from PACA. Everyone's got that one hoodie they practically live in. But the PACA hoodie? It's on another level.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Softer than cashmere, warmer than wool, and still breathable, This alpaca fiber hoodie goes from airport to mountain trail to couch without missing a beat.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Right now, grab a pack of hoodie and score a free pair of alpaca cruise socks. Moisture wicking, odor resistant, and guaranteed for life.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Level up your hoodie game at go.pakaapparel.com slash NPR code NPR.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Now we move into the second round. Oh. The insights round. This is stuff you're learning now, stuff you're working through now. Okay, three new cards. One, two, or three?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Well, let's go for two again. Okay. Okay.
--:-- Rachel Martin: What emotion do you understand better than all the others?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Patience.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Oh. I'm incredibly patient. It takes a lot to really push me. Huh. Yeah.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Where does that come from?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Well, I don't know. I'm the baby sister of two. So that teaches you, one, you're always watching your big sister because they're always so wonderful.
--:-- Rachel Martin: They're prettier. They're more intelligent. Everything. In your mind, yes.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And you want to say, well, one day I'll grow up or whatever. But most of my friends are older. I have very few friends who are my age.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I'm 81. Right. It's a long life already, Nikki, 81.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And most of your friends are older than that. Some good longevity.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Well, I'm hoping that Aunt Sarah, who was my mother's great aunt, and nobody liked Sarah, by the way. She was a despicable person.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But she lived to be 100. So I do want that dream that lets you live to be 100.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I think it'd be interesting to see what's happening at 100. My kids asked me that recently. If I wanted to, you know, not just to 100, but like, would I want to live forever?
--:-- Rachel Martin: And, you know, that's an interesting question to talk about with kids.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And how having a finite end to life sometimes creates appreciation because you think things are going to end, you know.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But I said I would do it with some caveats. I just want my health. I just want my body to still work.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I don't want things falling apart on me. Things are going to fall apart.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And so that's, again, one of the things that you can hear in my breathing. It's because of the pneumonia.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And that will go away. This will get well.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: But I'm not afraid of, you know, being blind. I have a friend who's losing her sight. And it makes her very uncomfortable.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Well, I think it's what an opportunity to now see the world in a different way. I mean, look at Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: So you say, well, they couldn't see, but look at what they created. So obviously they saw something.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I'm not afraid. As I said, 80 kicked my butt. I mean, if it could be wrong with me, it was wrong with me.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I was thinking, okay, well, you know, I had cancer, I had lung cancer, and I had breast cancer.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I said, whatever happens, I don't want to read. I don't want to be sitting.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I'll be sitting in hell because I don't think I'm going to heaven. But I don't want to be sitting in hell.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And they say she fought cancer for, you know, 20 years. I'm not fighting any disease. I'm learning to live with it.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And I want the disease to live with me. So every morning that I wake up, me and cancer, we're in good shape.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I said, well, let's take a shower. Go about our day. Let's do our life.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Yeah. And one day we won't. And then that means that I'll be transitioned. I'll be in another place.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And that's what, you know, I'm talking about my grandmother, but that's what I think about grandmother, about Sister Althea, who was my eighth grade teacher, and I loved her so much.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But I don't think they're not dead because they will never be forgotten for me.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And I find myself, if I'm not careful, and sometimes even if I am talking to them or they're talking to me, you know, you're never alone when you have somebody like that around you.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Yeah. Are you afraid of anything?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Well, I'm very cautious around ostriches when I was on safari.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Nikki, what are you talking about? You're afraid of ostriches?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Well, yeah. You ever been on safari?
--:-- Rachel Martin: They are mean. No, they are mean.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And that kick will kill you. Ask a lion if you had to put a lion against an ostrich. The lion is gone. That's why you don't see lions.
--:-- Rachel Martin: That was just like not where I thought we were going to go. Oh, no, I like it. I like it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I mean, it's real. That is your fear. The ostrich. Yes.
--:-- Rachel Martin: You have to be very careful around them.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I'm not afraid of lions because lions are an intelligent being that unless you're threatening them, they're not going to bother you. Right.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But the only ostriches I've had in relation, you know, it's been unpleasant.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I'm lucky that they didn't get to me or they would have killed Thomas and my son and I on safari.
--:-- Rachel Martin: You have to be careful around ostriches. People need to know that.
--:-- Rachel Martin: That is a good and unexpected public service announcement that you have provided, Nikki Giovanni.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Okay. Next question. Three more cards. One, two, or three?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Let's do three. Three.
--:-- Rachel Martin: In what ways do you choose to find joy?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Cooking. Cooking. I love to cook.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Do you?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I really do. I cooked with my grandmother. And my mother could cook, but not as well as my grandmother.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I didn't cook with Mommy. I watched Mommy cook. But I cooked with grandmother.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And I would be the one. She used to be the one. I hope nobody's upset. But, you know, you'd go and get the chicken.
--:-- Rachel Martin: We lived in Knoxville. And so you'd have to go. In Tennessee, yeah. Yeah, you'd get chicken.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Chicken was, unfortunately, for the chicken alive. And so grandmother would wring its neck.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And then I would be the one to have to pluck it.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: And I learned to pluck the chicken. But I also learned to cook chitlins because I learned to turn the chitlins or intestines.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I learned to turn them inside out and pull the fat out. But I also learned to break string beans. And when you do that, you want to pull the string out.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So I love every time I'm cooking something, I'm thinking about grandmother and how she did it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Oh, I love that. You know, it's like she's with me. It's like, you know, but I do. It always makes me happy.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I like other people's cooking sometimes. But mostly, if I have my way, I do my own.
--:-- Rachel Martin: You said that sometimes you catch yourself, or maybe it's not catching yourself, just sometimes you do just talk out loud to your mom or your grandmother.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Does it happen when you're cooking?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I don't know if I'm talking out loud so much as remembering. You know, and you go and I made some lamb chops that I have to tell you were incredible.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I was trying to remember what it was that grandmother did. It was grandmother. And I remembered, oh, it was she put a little cinnamon. And so I put a little cinnamon and a little apple vinegar. Yes.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Oh, God. They were so good. I thought, oh, you know, and I didn't I don't think I said aloud to grandmother, you know, look what I've done.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But, you know, it's one of those, like, I didn't share. I have people. You just made it for yourself. I didn't. You didn't invite people. They should go get somebody else. If they're hungry, go to Wendy's.
--:-- Rachel Martin: We've got another quick break, but when we come back, Nikki tells me about her belief system.
--:-- [Break music plays]
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--:-- Rachel Martin: So now this is the beliefs round. Beliefs. One, two, three. Okay, three.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind? No.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Wow, I'm surprised by that answer. Huh. No, because it gets you caught up in your life, and that's not what you're like. Your life is not about your life. Your life is about your duty.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And so, no, I don't think about it, you know.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Have you seen people get too caught up in preemptively analyzing their legacy?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, I've seen a lot. I know a lot of famous people, and they're all, you know, I wonder what my stamp would look like. I'll be dead. So it doesn't matter.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Yeah. Oh, wow. And so you just look, no, no. I'm just glad when me and cancer wake up, and now when me and cancer and pneumonia wake up.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And one day we won't. And I don't know. Maybe I'll be sad. Maybe not. I don't know.
--:-- Rachel Martin: It's interesting. My friend Toni Morrison, whom I do and still do love so very much, and my favorite Toni Morrison, among other things, is Sula.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And when Sula is dying, she says, oh, wait till I tell Nell, because Nell is her best friend.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And she says, wait till I tell Nell. It doesn't hurt. Wait till I tell Nell.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Let me ask this question a different way then, though. I get what you're saying, that you don't want to get wrapped up in your ego.
--:-- Rachel Martin: You don't want to think about, you know, I'm so important. People are going to remember me. What are they going to write on my tombstone?
--:-- Rachel Martin: What are they going to write on my tombstone? All the great accolades are going to give me.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But are there moments when you think back on your life and allow yourself moments to feel proud?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, there are moments that I feel proud because I've worked hard.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I think the word that means, as you probably also have heard in this conversation, a lot to me is duty.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And when I went to the opening of the African American Museum in D.C., you go around and around. I certainly recommend anybody doing it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I had forgotten because a lot of those things I don't handle and I'm not interested in. I forgot we gave permission to use my poetry and we gave permission to use my poetry.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And it's not something, if you start paying attention to that, you'd be crazy. And when I turned to the right, there was a photograph of me. And I just automatically, and it brings tears to my eyes, I automatically just turned over my shoulder to my left to say, Look, grandmother, I did my duty.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And, yeah, and it still amazes me that I did. I mean I just it like she was there I didn't mind.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And that what matters to me That's beautiful.
--:-- Rachel Martin: This is the last one. Okay. Last question. One, two, or three.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Let's go two again. What belief helps you make sense of the world?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Well, I am, and I almost hate to use this word because there's so many fools out there, but I am a Christian.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I think Jesus is a really interesting guy. I really am fascinated by the way he conducted his life.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And I think 90% of all black women you would run into are Christians. We believe that he may not come. There's an expression that black women have, and I share that expression.
--:-- Rachel Martin: He may not come when you call, but he always comes on time. So we've learned to wait on the Lord, and I think that that's the most important thing.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Do you pray?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, no, no, none of that. No, no.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So how does that— I tell them to go to church. Don't go to church. No. Don't pray. But there's still something about Jesus, the Trinity. He's a good guy.
--:-- Rachel Martin: God, a Christian God who you're into. Well, he's a very interesting guy.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And, of course, when he did come from the tomb— There are lots of interesting guys, Nikki, but like— No, they're not.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Let's face that one. But, you know, when he came out of the tomb, he went to Mary Magdalene. So the first thing he went to was a black woman.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So you have to appreciate that. And I think that what he said to her was, you know, I've got to go. I've got things to do. But you call me. I'll be there.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But just wait on the Lord. And all of the black women I know believe that. And it made sense to me. You may as well. He'll come when you call.
--:-- Rachel Martin: That's why I have patience. No question about it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: You know, you want the Lord to do something. But I'm not asking for, you know, lottery numbers. You know, and I'm not asking for, you know, oh, please, you know.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Yeah, none of that. Please let me get well, you know. I'm worried about this cancer.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I didn't ask for any of that because that's a foolish thing to ask for. What you're asking for is let me continue my life of duty with grace. And that's all.
--:-- Rachel Martin: If I can gracefully do what I have to do, I'm happy.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Do you think there's such a thing as heaven, Nikki?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: There's a heaven, and my grandmother's sitting up there. I'm going to hell because I hate my father, and I'm going to sit down and tell him why.
--:-- Rachel Martin: But I'm sure grandmother and mommy will, you know, talk to Jesus or God, whoever's there. You know, let her come up and visit, you know.
--:-- Rachel Martin: And everybody knows I like champagne, so I'm sure they'll have a glass of champagne. And we'll sit there and talk to him.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Well, you got to go now. You've been here for two days, you know.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Do you actually think that? What do you actually think?
--:-- Rachel Martin: It doesn't matter what I actually think. It doesn't matter. What matters is what gets me through the next day.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Well, you won the game, Nikki. So the prize, alas, is not ginger cookies. Oh, I know. It is a trip in our memory time machine. Yep.
--:-- Rachel Martin: So as your prize, you get to revisit one moment from your past that you would not change anything about. it's just a moment you'd like to linger a little longer in. What moment do you choose?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: That's not only hard, but it's personal. And so I know what I would, but it's none of your business.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I want you to be in it now, though. Can you go there now in your mind?
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: I go there. I go there quite a bit. You do. You don't need me to take you there.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I haven't been well right now. I'm getting better, but I haven't been well. And so I stay in that spot right now, and it works.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: My old ladies come through. No matter what's going on, my old ladies are—I mean, I'm in the hospital. To me, I love hospitals because they're grandmothers, you know, and they come in the morning and they say, how's my baby doing today?
--:-- Rachel Martin: But it's like all of these, not all, but a couple of old ladies that I really love. And they're right there. They say, you know, you'll be all right. Don't worry about it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Well, you don't owe me anything. You don't have to take me to your moment, but I'm glad that you can go there easily these days. Yeah. They're with me. Yeah.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Yeah. Well, it was my great pleasure to get to talk with you. Thank you so much for doing this.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Oh, thank you. I hope I didn't sound too crazy, but life is a good idea. Yeah. Wait till you get to be 70. And you're going to love it.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Nikki Giovanni, poet, author, revolutionary, amazing human. Thank you so much for talking with me.
--:-- Nikki Giovanni: Thank you.
--:-- Rachel Martin: If you want to hear more from Nikki Giovanni, we've got a bonus question you can hear by signing up for Wild Card Plus.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I ask her what her thoughts are on marriage. Well, first of all, it takes patients, of which I have a lot. And secondly, it's a good tax write-up, by the way.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Oh, Nikki! You'll also hear Ted Danson talk about adjusting to the world of adult responsibility. And you'll hear my reflections on how those conversations affected me personally.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Wildcard Plus is the best way to support our show and support public radio at the same time. Go to plus.npr.org slash wildcard to join today.
--:-- Rachel Martin: Make sure to follow NPR's Wildcard podcast wherever you listen.
--:-- Rachel Martin: This episode of Wildcard was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard.
--:-- Rachel Martin: It was fact-checked by Barclay Walsh and mastered by Robert Rodriguez.
--:-- Rachel Martin: The Sunday Story team includes Andrew Mambo, Justine Yan, Jenny Schmidt, and Liana Simstrom.
--:-- Rachel Martin: I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday Story from Up First.
--:-- Rachel Martin: We'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.
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